I not only dislike WOW I also feel that it has hurt the MMORPG genre by establishing a formula that companies will attempt to copy for years to come. The immense success of WOW in the MMO genre will basically force all future games into a single cookie cutter build. Look at a game like Warhammer, despite the fact that there will be several factions, it still has a very similar look and feel to Warcraft. This may be due to the fact that the Warcraft games were originally going to be released as Warhammer games but that fact doesn't change the reality that is currently the MMO landscape.
I not only dislike WOW I also feel that it has hurt the MMORPG genre by establishing a formula that companies will attempt to copy for years to come. The immense success of WOW in the MMO genre will basically force all future games into a single cookie cutter build. Look at a game like Warhammer, despite the fact that there will be several factions, it still has a very similar look and feel to Warcraft. This may be due to the fact that the Warcraft games were originally going to be released as Warhammer games but that fact doesn't change the reality that is currently the MMO landscape.
You are wrong. The sad part is you put so much thought into this when the very base of it is the problem. This game did nothing but help the genre. Stop being so negative. Go buy a puppy.
There is no point to the world after lvl 40, in open battles before BG's, once you hit 30 you could actually go and play with everyone. Screw fair, its was fun as hell to cheapshot a lvl 60 and watch my side beat the crap out of them because I stunned them.
End game is all, and the world is just people doing thier best to lvl with out being griefed.
This ended up ruining the game for me, because no one wanted to help lvl toons anymore, as all the glory and loot is in PVP or raiding guilds. Used to, in between raids, older folks would play with younger folks, help em out, rescue them from griefers, run em to a needed item in a low lvl dungeon, and so on.
Mace rogue specialist, retired.
It was fun, but I aint goin back. EVE has my attention now, with its fully immersive world, no battlegrounds, no honor.
I not only dislike WOW I also feel that it has hurt the MMORPG genre by establishing a formula that companies will attempt to copy for years to come. The immense success of WOW in the MMO genre will basically force all future games into a single cookie cutter build. Look at a game like Warhammer, despite the fact that there will be several factions, it still has a very similar look and feel to Warcraft. This may be due to the fact that the Warcraft games were originally going to be released as Warhammer games but that fact doesn't change the reality that is currently the MMO landscape.
You are wrong. The sad part is you put so much thought into this when the very base of it is the problem. This game did nothing but help the genre. Stop being so negative. Go buy a puppy.
ProfRed, I agree with you totally. WoW has not hurt the MMO genre it has brought attention and venture capitol to this type of gaming. Sure there will be cookie cutter game that copy WoW for years to come. but there will be new and innovative MMOs as well. To many people who post here seem to think WoW started this genre. If you go back as far as I do to the first day Ultima Online went live you will know WoW was hardly the first MMO. However look at the choices now available. This site is an example, look at how many games are listed here. That is due to the economic success of WoW.
Guys, there are more MMOs out there then WoW and Warhammer. So many of you complain about not having innovative games out there but when one comes along you do not support it but instead play WoW. Seed was a good example. Seed was an innovative game with a lot of potential. Sure there were problems with Seed but at it's core it was a good game that needed time and support to develope but no one support this new idea. I am tired of players crying no innovative games yet they only play the top rated games which are not always the best. Don't get me wrong I for one love WoW and feel it will and has helped this genre. WoW has made MMOs part of our culture like no MMO has before. Hell even my 81 year old mother knows what WoW is.
I would love to see how many WoW haters and people who say there are no good MMOs out there played pre-nge SWG. What so many complainers are looking for was the amazing sandbox experience that SWG once gave us. If anything SOE has hurt the developement of MMOs not WoW. Stop bashing WoW if you love MMOs and praise it for bring money and attention to this type of gaming. WoW is one of the best things to happen to MMOs. It may not be the deepest most innovative MMO but it has proven that MMOs can be hugely profitable. That fact will fuel the fantastic MMOs of the future. Don't worry folks, some company will see the light and make the game you have all been looking for and that will be thanks to WoW.
I not only dislike WOW I also feel that it has hurt the MMORPG genre by establishing a formula that companies will attempt to copy for years to come. The immense success of WOW in the MMO genre will basically force all future games into a single cookie cutter build. Look at a game like Warhammer, despite the fact that there will be several factions, it still has a very similar look and feel to Warcraft. This may be due to the fact that the Warcraft games were originally going to be released as Warhammer games but that fact doesn't change the reality that is currently the MMO landscape.
You are wrong. The sad part is you put so much thought into this when the very base of it is the problem. This game did nothing but help the genre. Stop being so negative. Go buy a puppy.
Oh god, are you seriously that delusional? Haven't you learned that proven formulas for money are very popular and will resurface multiple times until shown ineffective?
I want to go in to this more but I have class. Next time think before you post.
I not only dislike WOW I also feel that it has hurt the MMORPG genre by establishing a formula that companies will attempt to copy for years to come. The immense success of WOW in the MMO genre will basically force all future games into a single cookie cutter build. Look at a game like Warhammer, despite the fact that there will be several factions, it still has a very similar look and feel to Warcraft. This may be due to the fact that the Warcraft games were originally going to be released as Warhammer games but that fact doesn't change the reality that is currently the MMO landscape.
You are wrong. The sad part is you put so much thought into this when the very base of it is the problem. This game did nothing but help the genre. Stop being so negative. Go buy a puppy.
Oh god, are you seriously that delusional? Haven't you learned that proven formulas for money are very popular and will resurface multiple times until shown ineffective?
I want to go in to this more but I have class. Next time think before you post.
I don't have to think before I post when I post my opinions. Let's think about this now though...
Your argument is that since it was so successful now a bunch of companies are going to copy it and try to replicate it over and over until they stop making money. How is this different than EQ1?
What I am saying is WoW brought millions of players into the MMORPG industry that would otherwise not be here. It was such a success that many companies that would have never made an MMORPG will now consider it. I don't care what is good or bad about the WoW design but the fact that it has so many subscribers, is bringing in so much money, and is even now getting commercials that will expose the MMORPG industry to the masses means that this industry will grow. Bethesda and Bioware are now rumored to be starting work on MMORPG's for very solid IP's. There is a good chance this would have never happened without WoW.
You are probably the type that would argue that if WoW never came out companies wouldn't try to make games like it and there would be more innovation?? Well look at what has been coming out.. Age of Conan, Hellgate, Tabula Rasa, and Warhammer... These are pretty innovative titles. Now you can argue how much Warhammer is like WoW.... Only it's more like Dark Ages of Camelot with the Warhammer IP. Now without WoW I guarantee that 25% of the games in development now would not be in development.
It is simple. Lets take cereal as an example. There are a few kinds of cereal that are in stores.. Let's say Cheerio's and Special K. They are all right and everything. Some people like them but not too many. Then Frosted Flakes come out and everyone is like DAMN cereal is the best breakfast ever!! Millions start eating cereal over porridge and oatmeal. Then all of the sudden new cereals and brands start flooding shelves. Some are crap, but many are great. The variety is what the consumer wants as everyone finds their favorite. The mediocre cereals die out but the great ones live on forever and spawn multiple varieties.
Damn Frosted Flakes just destroyed the cereal genre. No. That isn't what happened. Frosted Flakes brought the greatness of cereal to the world and we are all now thankful for it except for the small group of diehard elitists who really loved when they only had Cheerios and Special K to choose from.
I not only dislike WOW I also feel that it has hurt the MMORPG genre by establishing a formula that companies will attempt to copy for years to come. The immense success of WOW in the MMO genre will basically force all future games into a single cookie cutter build. Look at a game like Warhammer, despite the fact that there will be several factions, it still has a very similar look and feel to Warcraft. This may be due to the fact that the Warcraft games were originally going to be released as Warhammer games but that fact doesn't change the reality that is currently the MMO landscape.
Where you see success as hampering the design choices of companies I see the exact opposite. I see the failures and/or terrible launches of games like Star Wars Galaxies, Dark and Light, Vanguard, Seed, MxO, Sims Online, Roma Victor, Saga of Ryzom, EQ2, Gods n Heroes, Motor city online, earth and beyond, auto assault, Horizons, etc etc etc.
The genre has been pounded with horribly mismanaged, underfunded and generally rushed releases that have hurt the MMO landscape. Imagine the wide selection and style of games that would be available to day if just half of those games above were finished on release?
Yes the stage has been set for imitation, but that isn't blizzards fault. Success breeds imitation and few are going to imitate the many failures previous.
I not only dislike WOW I also feel that it has hurt the MMORPG genre by establishing a formula that companies will attempt to copy for years to come. The immense success of WOW in the MMO genre will basically force all future games into a single cookie cutter build. Look at a game like Warhammer, despite the fact that there will be several factions, it still has a very similar look and feel to Warcraft. This may be due to the fact that the Warcraft games were originally going to be released as Warhammer games but that fact doesn't change the reality that is currently the MMO landscape.
You are wrong. The sad part is you put so much thought into this when the very base of it is the problem. This game did nothing but help the genre. Stop being so negative. Go buy a puppy.
Oh god, are you seriously that delusional? Haven't you learned that proven formulas for money are very popular and will resurface multiple times until shown ineffective?
I want to go in to this more but I have class. Next time think before you post.
I don't have to think before I post when I post my opinions. Let's think about this now though...
Your argument is that since it was so successful now a bunch of companies are going to copy it and try to replicate it over and over until they stop making money. How is this different than EQ1?
What I am saying is WoW brought millions of players into the MMORPG industry that would otherwise not be here. It was such a success that many companies that would have never made an MMORPG will now consider it. I don't care what is good or bad about the WoW design but the fact that it has so many subscribers, is bringing in so much money, and is even now getting commercials that will expose the MMORPG industry to the masses means that this industry will grow. Bethesda and Bioware are now rumored to be starting work on MMORPG's for very solid IP's. There is a good chance this would have never happened without WoW.
You are probably the type that would argue that if WoW never came out companies wouldn't try to make games like it and there would be more innovation?? Well look at what has been coming out.. Age of Conan, Hellgate, Tabula Rasa, and Warhammer... These are pretty innovative titles. Now you can argue how much Warhammer is like WoW.... Only it's more like Dark Ages of Camelot with the Warhammer IP. Now without WoW I guarantee that 25% of the games in development now would not be in development.
It is simple. Lets take cereal as an example. There are a few kinds of cereal that are in stores.. Let's say Cheerio's and Special K. They are all right and everything. Some people like them but not too many. Then Frosted Flakes come out and everyone is like DAMN cereal is the best breakfast ever!! Millions start eating cereal over porridge and oatmeal. Then all of the sudden new cereals and brands start flooding shelves. Some are crap, but many are great. The variety is what the consumer wants as everyone finds their favorite. The mediocre cereals die out but the great ones live on forever and spawn multiple varieties.
Damn Frosted Flakes just destroyed the cereal genre. No. That isn't what happened. Frosted Flakes brought the greatness of cereal to the world and we are all now thankful for it except for the small group of diehard elitists who really loved when they only had Cheerios and Special K to choose from.
Think before you think.
Yeah you're still wrong, but nice try.
WoW did not bring the greatness of MMOs to the world. It brought the greatness of WoW. I wish WoW could represent the best of MMOs but unfortunately it doesn't nor can't. It represents bait and switch, one of the worst MMO models.
WoW did do one thing right. They set the standard for how polished a game should be at release. What scares me is all the other standards they set like content, difficulty, shallowness, mindless rep grinding, linear progression, item centricity, and raiding.
My point wasn't so much about the MMORPG's that have been released being crap, the ones that were "killed" we will probably never know much about.
Other games in development were simply revamped to compete or dumped , otherwise we would be suffering them now if not for the arrival of Wow, which if I recall correctly, wasn't developed by a team who had previously created an MMORPG. But rather drew on the best bits available at the time, then had to make the rest work to fit the storyline the Warcraft series had bequethed them.
Is Wow dumbed down? Depends how deeply you want to play it and what choices you make- yes, I guess it can be played in a dumbed down way, but I dont believe it was dumbed down.
I anticipate with excitement the games that will follow it, as they will have to be "Better" to win market share.
Can War on line be that much better? I hope so, but I agree with an earlier contributor to this thread, who said that it looks very similar to wow. Guess that could be enforced by the genre, but it seems cartoony to me. (if that's a word).
WOW, pardon the pun, some people are saying WOW is killing MMO's, hmmm it think it has contributed to challenge the new MMO”s coming out. People expect so much more in there MMO’s now!! The big laugh is, War is a WOW clone. DUDES, all games that have Swords and sorcerers are all the same with small differences. How many ways can you have a sword fight??? you all gaze into a LCD or CRT screen not a lot of places to put tool bars, I think right in the middle of the screen would be dumb so I guess the best place for a toolbar must be at the bottom, maybe they can change it up to circles instead of squares lolol.
Not sure how people say other games are like wow that confuses me. What could be same??? It couldn’t be the storyline I am sure there is no ORC called Thrall in WAR or EQ??? Do they have an Auction house cause that is just a good idea, or maybe they have a PVP server just like WOW,,,, hmmmm I like PVP and that sells? Wait I got it, maybe they have swords that sparkle or lightning bolts shoot from the shoulders, I hope all games that come out in the future have that as well cause it sells.
I think if I was making a MMO with Orcs or Blood Elves and so on, I would try to copy WOW because they really have a good thing going, but I add, Player housing, video story line like Guild wars, more faction wars, and more PVP area’s but add some safe zones, and the ability to be the MOBS like come on,,, who wouldn’t want to be the werewolf looking thing on WoW near the undead area ( the name eludes me *the son of something*) I think all towns should be able to be controlled by another faction. I think if I was making a MMO with all the things people wanted in it, it would take10 years to make and Blizz would be the only gaming company that could put that much resources and money into it lol.
I really wish Vanguard got a better start!! But they really messed up on that one!! I think games are getting drops because of what happened to Vanguard not WOW. I think some of the MMO’s makers out there realized that full content like wow is needed for our North American gamers. Most of us are all about immediate satisfaction. The Asian market is far bigger than ours so if I was a MMO maker I would test it Asia before releasing it in North America, and I bet you start seeing that more and more. They can do all the polishing there once it is seamless your will get a North American release to stop the whining that we do. I could be way out to lunch on that one. But I all I see is people whining. An please don’t think I am criticizing our Asian community with the above statements I just look at the SUB count there, I am sure it is 100 to 1.
Oh ffs, everyone is compairing other MMOs to WoW because EVERYONE knows about WoW, even the people who didn't play it know about WoW and what kind of game is it. Why would anyone compair new games with EQ when only old people played that, who cares about EQ, I didn't play it, it looks ugly on the screens, but I can still say WoW is an EQ clone and still be right to a degree.
It's not that people think WoW is the first MMO, please get over yourself.
Originally posted by SonofSeth Oh ffs, everyone is compairing other MMOs to WoW because EVERYONE knows about WoW, even the people who didn't play it know about WoW and what kind of game is it. Why would anyone compair new games with EQ when only old people played that, who cares about EQ, I didn't play it, it looks ugly on the screens, but I can still say WoW is an EQ clone and still be right to a degree. It's not that people think WoW is the first MMO, please get over yourself.
WoW is like McDonalds: - It is good if you have low standards - Everyone knows it and likes the taste occassionally (or a lot if they've never had anything better) - It is a profitable business model targetting the largest demographic: the lowest common denominator - It has spawned lots of clones with terrible standards
The only difference is that the entire restaurant industry did not stop making good restaurants, but the MMO industry DID.
- Phos (For the record - I like McDonalds, but I actually have standards when it comes to MMO rulesets.)
AAH! A troll fire! Quick, pour some Kool-Aid on it!!!
Oh ffs, everyone is compairing other MMOs to WoW because EVERYONE knows about WoW, even the people who didn't play it know about WoW and what kind of game is it. Why would anyone compair new games with EQ when only old people played that, who cares about EQ, I didn't play it, it looks ugly on the screens, but I can still say WoW is an EQ clone and still be right to a degree.
It's not that people think WoW is the first MMO, please get over yourself.
WoW is like McDonalds:
- It is good if you have low standards
- Everyone knows it and likes the taste occassionally (or a lot if they've never had anything better)
- It is a profitable business model targetting the largest demographic: the lowest common denominator
- It has spawned lots of clones with terrible standards
The only difference is that the entire restaurant industry did not stop making good restaurants, but the MMO industry DID.
- Phos
(For the record - I like McDonalds, but I actually have standards when it comes to MMO rulesets.)
WoW has increased the MMORPG player population. It will be a good thing for all MMORPGs to come Torrential
I think its way too early to be able to tell if this is true. It depends on what kind of legacy the game leaves. Like all games, it has it's fans and haters. Some of the haters will be MMO first timers, and may not think highly of the genre afterward. The opposite is true of the fans. Without going in to how I personally feel, there is no way that everyone will feel the same about it.
Why do people always say WoW is like a hamburger chain and then go on to talk about the "bad image" of McDonalds as if it bares any relevance?
Why not compare it to Intel, Toyota or Coca-cola? All dominate factors in their respective fields, but that would somehow put a positive spin on some lame analogy. We couldn't have that now could we, so lets pick a successful company that is easily targeted by negative reviews. Not to mention McDonalds competitors dump the fattest highest calorie food in the fast food industry out their doors, but who really cares about what the lesser companies do while everyone makes fun of the industry front runner. See what I did there?
Once again, comparing a video game to a hambuger, automobile, computer chip or anything else does not somehow make your views valid or intelligent. It may get you high fives from the other guys in the locker room, but it is still pointless drivel.
At first I loved WOW however around the incredibly low level of 22 I became bored. I'm a PvP enthusiast and although I had a few really fun PvP moments around level 20 I realised it would take me a whole lot longer to compete properly.
I also hated how 'robotic' the game became. There was a certain build for PvP another for PvE and if you didn't follow these builds you were pretty much screwed.
WOW really has changed MMORPG's in my opinion because it is incredibly polished and fun if your not looking for anything too specific.
As the original Half-Life set the standard for FPS I think this set the standard for MMORPGs. Even though I'm spent on it.
Why do people always say WoW is like a hamburger chain and then go on to talk about the "bad image" of McDonalds as if it bares any relevance?
Why not compare it to Intel, Toyota or Coca-cola? All dominate factors in their respective fields, but that would somehow put a positive spin on some lame analogy. We couldn't have that now could we, so lets pick a successful company that is easily targeted by negative reviews. Not to mention McDonalds competitors dump the fattest highest calorie food in the fast food industry out their doors, but who really cares about what the lesser companies do while everyone makes fun of the industry front runner. See what I did there?
Once again, comparing a video game to a hambuger, automobile, computer chip or anything else does not somehow make your views valid or intelligent. It may get you high fives from the other guys in the locker room, but it is still pointless drivel.
LOL, dude, do you WORK at McDonalds? I mean seriously, have a beer and relax or something. I want fries with my Hunter!
Wow didnt attract tons of people to the MMORPG genre...it attracted tons of people to the WoW genre. I played WoW for awhile and had a godd time, but it falls short of what I enjoy most about MMOs. It changed the focus of developers for sure...subs at the expense of truely in-depth gaming? That is for the individual fan to decide.
Thread title, post content and poll question are not really well strung together. Are you saying one should like or loathe a game based on whether it has made a difference in a genre and/or killed other games?
For the record, I like the game itself. I think it's also completely impossible to dispute that it has made a huge impact on the genre. That's both good and bad though.
On the good side, WoW has shown many developers the way to expand the genre and reach more gamers. It has pointed out the importance of e.g. an easy entry level and learning curve, and low system requirements. It has also opened investors' eyes to the potential of the genre.
On the bad side it has blinded some developers and investors with the numbers, forcing new games to aim at 500k+ or be considered a failure. Instead of settling for a smaller (and profitable) game, they aim for the moon and stumble badly. Or they stop the project thinking not enough will play it, leading to less variety of MMOGs.
Comments
I not only dislike WOW I also feel that it has hurt the MMORPG genre by establishing a formula that companies will attempt to copy for years to come. The immense success of WOW in the MMO genre will basically force all future games into a single cookie cutter build. Look at a game like Warhammer, despite the fact that there will be several factions, it still has a very similar look and feel to Warcraft. This may be due to the fact that the Warcraft games were originally going to be released as Warhammer games but that fact doesn't change the reality that is currently the MMO landscape.
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You are wrong. The sad part is you put so much thought into this when the very base of it is the problem. This game did nothing but help the genre. Stop being so negative. Go buy a puppy.
I played WoW for two years and I loved it, but
There is no point to the world after lvl 40, in open battles before BG's, once you hit 30 you could actually go and play with everyone. Screw fair, its was fun as hell to cheapshot a lvl 60 and watch my side beat the crap out of them because I stunned them.
End game is all, and the world is just people doing thier best to lvl with out being griefed.
This ended up ruining the game for me, because no one wanted to help lvl toons anymore, as all the glory and loot is in PVP or raiding guilds. Used to, in between raids, older folks would play with younger folks, help em out, rescue them from griefers, run em to a needed item in a low lvl dungeon, and so on.
Mace rogue specialist, retired.
It was fun, but I aint goin back. EVE has my attention now, with its fully immersive world, no battlegrounds, no honor.
You are wrong. The sad part is you put so much thought into this when the very base of it is the problem. This game did nothing but help the genre. Stop being so negative. Go buy a puppy.
ProfRed, I agree with you totally. WoW has not hurt the MMO genre it has brought attention and venture capitol to this type of gaming. Sure there will be cookie cutter game that copy WoW for years to come. but there will be new and innovative MMOs as well. To many people who post here seem to think WoW started this genre. If you go back as far as I do to the first day Ultima Online went live you will know WoW was hardly the first MMO. However look at the choices now available. This site is an example, look at how many games are listed here. That is due to the economic success of WoW.
Guys, there are more MMOs out there then WoW and Warhammer. So many of you complain about not having innovative games out there but when one comes along you do not support it but instead play WoW. Seed was a good example. Seed was an innovative game with a lot of potential. Sure there were problems with Seed but at it's core it was a good game that needed time and support to develope but no one support this new idea. I am tired of players crying no innovative games yet they only play the top rated games which are not always the best. Don't get me wrong I for one love WoW and feel it will and has helped this genre. WoW has made MMOs part of our culture like no MMO has before. Hell even my 81 year old mother knows what WoW is.
I would love to see how many WoW haters and people who say there are no good MMOs out there played pre-nge SWG. What so many complainers are looking for was the amazing sandbox experience that SWG once gave us. If anything SOE has hurt the developement of MMOs not WoW. Stop bashing WoW if you love MMOs and praise it for bring money and attention to this type of gaming. WoW is one of the best things to happen to MMOs. It may not be the deepest most innovative MMO but it has proven that MMOs can be hugely profitable. That fact will fuel the fantastic MMOs of the future. Don't worry folks, some company will see the light and make the game you have all been looking for and that will be thanks to WoW.
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You are wrong. The sad part is you put so much thought into this when the very base of it is the problem. This game did nothing but help the genre. Stop being so negative. Go buy a puppy.
Oh god, are you seriously that delusional? Haven't you learned that proven formulas for money are very popular and will resurface multiple times until shown ineffective?
I want to go in to this more but I have class. Next time think before you post.
You are wrong. The sad part is you put so much thought into this when the very base of it is the problem. This game did nothing but help the genre. Stop being so negative. Go buy a puppy.
Oh god, are you seriously that delusional? Haven't you learned that proven formulas for money are very popular and will resurface multiple times until shown ineffective?
I want to go in to this more but I have class. Next time think before you post.
I don't have to think before I post when I post my opinions. Let's think about this now though...
Your argument is that since it was so successful now a bunch of companies are going to copy it and try to replicate it over and over until they stop making money. How is this different than EQ1?
What I am saying is WoW brought millions of players into the MMORPG industry that would otherwise not be here. It was such a success that many companies that would have never made an MMORPG will now consider it. I don't care what is good or bad about the WoW design but the fact that it has so many subscribers, is bringing in so much money, and is even now getting commercials that will expose the MMORPG industry to the masses means that this industry will grow. Bethesda and Bioware are now rumored to be starting work on MMORPG's for very solid IP's. There is a good chance this would have never happened without WoW.
You are probably the type that would argue that if WoW never came out companies wouldn't try to make games like it and there would be more innovation?? Well look at what has been coming out.. Age of Conan, Hellgate, Tabula Rasa, and Warhammer... These are pretty innovative titles. Now you can argue how much Warhammer is like WoW.... Only it's more like Dark Ages of Camelot with the Warhammer IP. Now without WoW I guarantee that 25% of the games in development now would not be in development.
It is simple. Lets take cereal as an example. There are a few kinds of cereal that are in stores.. Let's say Cheerio's and Special K. They are all right and everything. Some people like them but not too many. Then Frosted Flakes come out and everyone is like DAMN cereal is the best breakfast ever!! Millions start eating cereal over porridge and oatmeal. Then all of the sudden new cereals and brands start flooding shelves. Some are crap, but many are great. The variety is what the consumer wants as everyone finds their favorite. The mediocre cereals die out but the great ones live on forever and spawn multiple varieties.
Damn Frosted Flakes just destroyed the cereal genre. No. That isn't what happened. Frosted Flakes brought the greatness of cereal to the world and we are all now thankful for it except for the small group of diehard elitists who really loved when they only had Cheerios and Special K to choose from.
Think before you think.
Where you see success as hampering the design choices of companies I see the exact opposite. I see the failures and/or terrible launches of games like Star Wars Galaxies, Dark and Light, Vanguard, Seed, MxO, Sims Online, Roma Victor, Saga of Ryzom, EQ2, Gods n Heroes, Motor city online, earth and beyond, auto assault, Horizons, etc etc etc.
The genre has been pounded with horribly mismanaged, underfunded and generally rushed releases that have hurt the MMO landscape. Imagine the wide selection and style of games that would be available to day if just half of those games above were finished on release?
Yes the stage has been set for imitation, but that isn't blizzards fault. Success breeds imitation and few are going to imitate the many failures previous.
You are wrong. The sad part is you put so much thought into this when the very base of it is the problem. This game did nothing but help the genre. Stop being so negative. Go buy a puppy.
Oh god, are you seriously that delusional? Haven't you learned that proven formulas for money are very popular and will resurface multiple times until shown ineffective?
I want to go in to this more but I have class. Next time think before you post.
I don't have to think before I post when I post my opinions. Let's think about this now though...
Your argument is that since it was so successful now a bunch of companies are going to copy it and try to replicate it over and over until they stop making money. How is this different than EQ1?
What I am saying is WoW brought millions of players into the MMORPG industry that would otherwise not be here. It was such a success that many companies that would have never made an MMORPG will now consider it. I don't care what is good or bad about the WoW design but the fact that it has so many subscribers, is bringing in so much money, and is even now getting commercials that will expose the MMORPG industry to the masses means that this industry will grow. Bethesda and Bioware are now rumored to be starting work on MMORPG's for very solid IP's. There is a good chance this would have never happened without WoW.
You are probably the type that would argue that if WoW never came out companies wouldn't try to make games like it and there would be more innovation?? Well look at what has been coming out.. Age of Conan, Hellgate, Tabula Rasa, and Warhammer... These are pretty innovative titles. Now you can argue how much Warhammer is like WoW.... Only it's more like Dark Ages of Camelot with the Warhammer IP. Now without WoW I guarantee that 25% of the games in development now would not be in development.
It is simple. Lets take cereal as an example. There are a few kinds of cereal that are in stores.. Let's say Cheerio's and Special K. They are all right and everything. Some people like them but not too many. Then Frosted Flakes come out and everyone is like DAMN cereal is the best breakfast ever!! Millions start eating cereal over porridge and oatmeal. Then all of the sudden new cereals and brands start flooding shelves. Some are crap, but many are great. The variety is what the consumer wants as everyone finds their favorite. The mediocre cereals die out but the great ones live on forever and spawn multiple varieties.
Damn Frosted Flakes just destroyed the cereal genre. No. That isn't what happened. Frosted Flakes brought the greatness of cereal to the world and we are all now thankful for it except for the small group of diehard elitists who really loved when they only had Cheerios and Special K to choose from.
Think before you think.
Yeah you're still wrong, but nice try.
WoW did not bring the greatness of MMOs to the world. It brought the greatness of WoW. I wish WoW could represent the best of MMOs but unfortunately it doesn't nor can't. It represents bait and switch, one of the worst MMO models.
WoW did do one thing right. They set the standard for how polished a game should be at release. What scares me is all the other standards they set like content, difficulty, shallowness, mindless rep grinding, linear progression, item centricity, and raiding.
My point wasn't so much about the MMORPG's that have been released being crap, the ones that were "killed" we will probably never know much about.
Other games in development were simply revamped to compete or dumped , otherwise we would be suffering them now if not for the arrival of Wow, which if I recall correctly, wasn't developed by a team who had previously created an MMORPG. But rather drew on the best bits available at the time, then had to make the rest work to fit the storyline the Warcraft series had bequethed them.
Is Wow dumbed down? Depends how deeply you want to play it and what choices you make- yes, I guess it can be played in a dumbed down way, but I dont believe it was dumbed down.
I anticipate with excitement the games that will follow it, as they will have to be "Better" to win market share.
Can War on line be that much better? I hope so, but I agree with an earlier contributor to this thread, who said that it looks very similar to wow. Guess that could be enforced by the genre, but it seems cartoony to me. (if that's a word).
WOW, pardon the pun, some people are saying WOW is killing MMO's, hmmm it think it has contributed to challenge the new MMO”s coming out. People expect so much more in there MMO’s now!! The big laugh is, War is a WOW clone. DUDES, all games that have Swords and sorcerers are all the same with small differences. How many ways can you have a sword fight??? you all gaze into a LCD or CRT screen not a lot of places to put tool bars, I think right in the middle of the screen would be dumb so I guess the best place for a toolbar must be at the bottom, maybe they can change it up to circles instead of squares lolol.
Not sure how people say other games are like wow that confuses me. What could be same??? It couldn’t be the storyline I am sure there is no ORC called Thrall in WAR or EQ??? Do they have an Auction house cause that is just a good idea, or maybe they have a PVP server just like WOW,,,, hmmmm I like PVP and that sells? Wait I got it, maybe they have swords that sparkle or lightning bolts shoot from the shoulders, I hope all games that come out in the future have that as well cause it sells.
I think if I was making a MMO with Orcs or Blood Elves and so on, I would try to copy WOW because they really have a good thing going, but I add, Player housing, video story line like Guild wars, more faction wars, and more PVP area’s but add some safe zones, and the ability to be the MOBS like come on,,, who wouldn’t want to be the werewolf looking thing on WoW near the undead area ( the name eludes me *the son of something*) I think all towns should be able to be controlled by another faction. I think if I was making a MMO with all the things people wanted in it, it would take10 years to make and Blizz would be the only gaming company that could put that much resources and money into it lol.
I really wish Vanguard got a better start!! But they really messed up on that one!! I think games are getting drops because of what happened to Vanguard not WOW. I think some of the MMO’s makers out there realized that full content like wow is needed for our North American gamers. Most of us are all about immediate satisfaction. The Asian market is far bigger than ours so if I was a MMO maker I would test it Asia before releasing it in North America, and I bet you start seeing that more and more. They can do all the polishing there once it is seamless your will get a North American release to stop the whining that we do. I could be way out to lunch on that one. But I all I see is people whining. An please don’t think I am criticizing our Asian community with the above statements I just look at the SUB count there, I am sure it is 100 to 1.
http://www.wowarmory.com/guild-info.xml?r=Malfurion&n=Lock+and+Shackles&p=1
Guild info
Oh ffs, everyone is compairing other MMOs to WoW because EVERYONE knows about WoW, even the people who didn't play it know about WoW and what kind of game is it. Why would anyone compair new games with EQ when only old people played that, who cares about EQ, I didn't play it, it looks ugly on the screens, but I can still say WoW is an EQ clone and still be right to a degree.
It's not that people think WoW is the first MMO, please get over yourself.
WoW is like McDonalds:
- It is good if you have low standards
- Everyone knows it and likes the taste occassionally (or a lot if they've never had anything better)
- It is a profitable business model targetting the largest demographic: the lowest common denominator
- It has spawned lots of clones with terrible standards
The only difference is that the entire restaurant industry did not stop making good restaurants, but the MMO industry DID.
- Phos
(For the record - I like McDonalds, but I actually have standards when it comes to MMO rulesets.)
WoW is like McDonalds:
- It is good if you have low standards
- Everyone knows it and likes the taste occassionally (or a lot if they've never had anything better)
- It is a profitable business model targetting the largest demographic: the lowest common denominator
- It has spawned lots of clones with terrible standards
The only difference is that the entire restaurant industry did not stop making good restaurants, but the MMO industry DID.
- Phos
(For the record - I like McDonalds, but I actually have standards when it comes to MMO rulesets.)
Very nice post Phos. I laughed pretty hard./highfive
I think its way too early to be able to tell if this is true. It depends on what kind of legacy the game leaves. Like all games, it has it's fans and haters. Some of the haters will be MMO first timers, and may not think highly of the genre afterward. The opposite is true of the fans. Without going in to how I personally feel, there is no way that everyone will feel the same about it.
Why do people always say WoW is like a hamburger chain and then go on to talk about the "bad image" of McDonalds as if it bares any relevance?
Why not compare it to Intel, Toyota or Coca-cola? All dominate factors in their respective fields, but that would somehow put a positive spin on some lame analogy. We couldn't have that now could we, so lets pick a successful company that is easily targeted by negative reviews. Not to mention McDonalds competitors dump the fattest highest calorie food in the fast food industry out their doors, but who really cares about what the lesser companies do while everyone makes fun of the industry front runner. See what I did there?
Once again, comparing a video game to a hambuger, automobile, computer chip or anything else does not somehow make your views valid or intelligent. It may get you high fives from the other guys in the locker room, but it is still pointless drivel.
At first I loved WOW however around the incredibly low level of 22 I became bored. I'm a PvP enthusiast and although I had a few really fun PvP moments around level 20 I realised it would take me a whole lot longer to compete properly.
I also hated how 'robotic' the game became. There was a certain build for PvP another for PvE and if you didn't follow these builds you were pretty much screwed.
WOW really has changed MMORPG's in my opinion because it is incredibly polished and fun if your not looking for anything too specific.
As the original Half-Life set the standard for FPS I think this set the standard for MMORPGs. Even though I'm spent on it.
LOL, dude, do you WORK at McDonalds? I mean seriously, have a beer and relax or something. I want fries with my Hunter!
Wow didnt attract tons of people to the MMORPG genre...it attracted tons of people to the WoW genre. I played WoW for awhile and had a godd time, but it falls short of what I enjoy most about MMOs. It changed the focus of developers for sure...subs at the expense of truely in-depth gaming? That is for the individual fan to decide.
Well I wont know if I got hired until monday. Wish me luck!
ROFLMAO. Nice comeback. I loved it.
Thread title, post content and poll question are not really well strung together. Are you saying one should like or loathe a game based on whether it has made a difference in a genre and/or killed other games?
For the record, I like the game itself. I think it's also completely impossible to dispute that it has made a huge impact on the genre. That's both good and bad though.
On the good side, WoW has shown many developers the way to expand the genre and reach more gamers. It has pointed out the importance of e.g. an easy entry level and learning curve, and low system requirements. It has also opened investors' eyes to the potential of the genre.
On the bad side it has blinded some developers and investors with the numbers, forcing new games to aim at 500k+ or be considered a failure. Instead of settling for a smaller (and profitable) game, they aim for the moon and stumble badly. Or they stop the project thinking not enough will play it, leading to less variety of MMOGs.