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review
Berndr
Member Posts: 185
This game is the closest to what I am looking for, in a MMo game, and since DDO went alive , I kept coming back to check it again and again in hope it will get better . So I started playing a Cleric from beginning in order to see how did game change , I took a healing class thinking , that I will have no problem with him getting into the group. and I did not, ther is still a nice crowd od people playing.
Well even thou game have improved a lot, level cap has been raised and there is much more content all together there is still not enough content per level , level 4 and 5 are pretty bad , even after you finished every single quest in your level you are far from levelling , so you will end up repeating the same quest over and over ,, and I am talking like 4 to 5 times … keep in mind this is an adventure so you can imagine how dull it can be repeating a quest you already know so well ,3 to 5 times ....but funny enough some people don’t seem to mind it at all ,they keep repeating it again and again and you keep hearing ” common guys lets do it again on as hard as we can” ,,,,,,,, its is basically equal to grinding you might find in some other games..
but I have to say every time I played a quest for the very first time I really enjoyed it, it was truly an awesome experience, but again sadly there are not many of those you can do solo , group quests are almost always ruined by rushers and runners, it does not matter how many times you say “guys lets keep together , don’t rush” ,,, there will be always at least 1 or 2 guys rushing it trough … and at the end you all will also end up chasing them , otherwise you will be left behind and get killed . so very rarely you will have a chance to enjoy dungeon and admire its beauty. Most of the time group moved so fast that I had no idea, what was it we were doing, or were we were.
Outside areas, again it is a misleading thing …. Most of outside areas are basically just an open instanced dungeon with sky and trees ,everyone who expect an open space similar to wow or eq2 will find open areas quite confined and disappointing , ,,,
But the worst thing of all is town itself, its confusing with non systematic dreadful layout.
It starts quite nicely , but once you reach the market and you pass level 4 ,you will find it quite confusing where to look for your quests. for an instance it would be logical that the farther you go the more dangerous it gets and level of the quests will start to increasing accordingly ,
but this is not your classic game with outside area to explore where you come across the quest giver usually folloving some story , here ;we are in the City with streets spreading in every direction without much logic.
layaout of the city quite confusing and non-systematic and mostly impossible to tell where to go, for there is nothing happening outside its dungeons , no story to follow ,nothing to explore or find ...but the doors …all you might ever look for,,, would be again A DOOR with the relevant quest for your level … and god knows how boring it can be to look for and find those doors you need.
Now someone could say “ so what do you want , to have it all served on a plate ????
Well no,, if there was a story to follow , a clue , a puzzle whatever something to make Stormreach interesting to explore but sadly ,the town is just a mess of the streets with random placed doors everywhere , you end up feeling like a postman spending hours walking from a door to a door .
When not in a dungeon, all you do is spending lots of time walking around , checking doors and quests available to you …. This is the most boring part and the part that kills the game ; it all feels like a theme park with rides , where the only trick is to find which door will allow you to get on the right ride
Conclusion: whilst quests itself are absolutely superb, everything else such as outside areas, city layout and pre-quest concept is absolutely horrible with nothing else to do.
And again; not enough content per level … we should not need to repeat any quest in order to level
Comments
I can agree with you on some points. The mid-range levels are the pits. It needs work in that area.
As for doing same quest over and over I don't mind. I did it in EQ, EQ2, COH. I remember mostly EQ2 because it was your group and you would hit the instances that night knock out the dungeon and get locked out for 24hrs and next evening you are back to farming the dungeons again for loot/exp. in my opinion it is in every game some kind of repetative dungeon.
I like instances now. There is to much gold farming or mob camping in open worlds today I can't stand it. EQ2 before I quit for awhile had some mob on sky expansion and always the same damn idiot there camping the mob and then selling the loot in auction hall.
About rushing, if the group agrees not to rush and then you have two idiots that run ahead let em die. And I've done that more than once. They pitch a fit in voice chat and drop group, which are quickly replaced.
Which comes to the LFG window. You usually remember the a-holes that rush ahead or just not group friendly. The LFG in DDO is the best I've seen in any game. I can tell who is in the group and if that a-hole from the night before is in there I can skip trying to get in.
Thanks for the nice negative review post that wasn't just a, "ddo sux don't buy".
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
If you do every quest at the appropriate level on normal, no...you will not have enough to level each time. However, if you do them on normal at the appropriate level, then hard at the appropriate level (level +1), then on elite at the appropriate level (level +2) you will always have levels stacked.
So, in other words, if you do all the level 1 quests on solo and normal, you'll have more than enough exp for level 2...then at level 2 do all the level 1 quests on hard and all the level 2 quests on normal...then at level 3 do all the level 1's on elite, the 2's on hard, and the 3's on normal...etc.
Although yes, you're still repeating quests (only 3 times) you're also doing the required work to get your favor, you're not running them as back to back repeats, the difficulty level change also DOES change the dungeon substantially (enemy casters use different spells, traps have different difficulties, etc.), and it's a varied experience.
I currently have started a new character to see how far i can get without repeating a single quest. I am currently level 4. All quests are done on normal difficulty and i still have acouple level 3 quests left, but have finished STK. I curious to have far ill get, but like Bendr said, i suspect level 5 sounds about right. I still have to see it for myself though
Don't forget the level appropriate adventure area exp (explorer, slayer marks, and unique encounters)
This is probably the worst review I read in years. It is obvious that writer played the game at max for the 7 days til the trial ran out.
You were spending hours by looking for quests? What a crap is that. If you say that you make look yourself like a person that didn't play it really. There is the adventure journal that has the list of all the quests you can take at each level with ALSO THE LOCATION OF THE QUEST GIVER NPC. The adventure journal is automatically filling up with quests when you level up. It also shows you what quests you done and on what difficulty level.
The city is spreading without logic? GOD it's ten times more logical than your favourite MMO's. You have districts here with market in the middle and different houses-district around it. You can find level 14 quest in market but also level 3. What's unlogical is that? Why for the love of god should every quest level 3-4 be in one zone, then level 5-6 in another, then 7-8 in next leading you by hand.
Lad try the game to play actually for longer than just 7 days. Anyone who played at least 2 weeks must know about the adventure journal.
REALITY CHECK
And your is the worst reply i have ever seen it screams "I AM A FUN BOY..."
And I am not interested in what fanboys or haters have to say , I am only interested in objective , analytical and Intelligent reply that breaks game into parts and analyse it ....
If you don’t want to be seen as a fan boy then you should not use words like this and do not assume;
"You were spending hours by looking for quests? What a crap is that. If you say that you make look yourself like a person that didn't play it really
or
It is obvious that writer played the game at max for the 7 days til the trial ran out. etc"
Without it your post would sound mature and intelligent
So you suggest ; I should be looking at The Adventure Journal
Ok before I carry on any further let me tell you this I am also an Animator and a game designer not just a gamer so i might see this different from you ;
A game has to be fun and interesting at all times, and never at any point boring , particularly not wasting peoples time on trivial things ,,, any of those I call a bad game design
Any Games where you spent too much time preparing to play , look for group or travel (when travel does not support or benefit quest nether experience) is simply a badly designed game
Most of the time you will find that FUNBOYS will defend a badly designed games at all cost ,and keep causing lots of arguments in forums , that’s only because they do not understand a game design themselves, but most of the time they have already used to their game the way it is, and are incapable of seeing its flaws and the way how it could be improved .
Not matter what you say ,I found layout of the city badly designed and chaotic , streets and houses do not make much sense and are not spread chronologically and NPC quest transporters to another area make the issue only worst (also its ok to teleport to some location once players got to that location themself otherwise its only warping into confusing space).
Let me explain again you cant expect some casual gamer ( who is level 5) to login and then walk into area where all quests are level 7 , just because it might be one quest level 5 hidden somewhere in the area ,
designing this you are pooling his leg and wasting his time particularry DDo style where there is nothing else he can do there
This man had 30 min to play,and he does not want to spend it looking for the quest , he will get bored and quit.
Back to your Journal . ( the only feature you used... to assume i dont even play the game...and i wish you did not mentioned it at all for that’s the worst feature of them all )
….again neither I want some stupid adventure Journal to tell me about all possible quests ,and where those quest can be found ( I mean having Journal with quests i have already picked up and done is ok) …. but SORRY ,that is just HORIBLE... with a capital H !!!
It totaly ruins fun and the mystery…! then Journal might as well do those quest for me , and tell me what keys to press in combat
Conclusion ;
City map should spread naturally and chronologically as you advance , it should be clever and efficient and certainly not a time wasting..No City should be confusing for no reason and A quest giver Should not be hidden, unless if looking for a quest is part of the quest and some puzzle players needs to solve , and if so it should be interesting and clever similarly to the quests inside dungeons
If Devs planed for you to travel 10 min to a certain location in some game, then there must be a reason for it ;mayby some other quest on a way to be discovered , a landscape to enjoy or a strong storyline to follow that embark that experience otherwise its a badly planed
No I have never played trial , and i am still playing on eu server , and just because i am capable of pointing out the weak points of the game does not mean i hate it ...
You appear to have the social skills of a snail.
Firstly - If you properly talked to a single other person in-game you would receive all the help you need. The community is excellent and most people are rerolling so know everything about the game.
I think youre the only person to every describe entering an instance as 'Warping to a confusing space'. Seriously Im gonna jus say this isnt the game for you.
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Note: PlayNC will refuse to allow you access to your account if you forget your password and can't provide a scanned image of the product key for the first product you purchased..... LOL
I just though I would jump in here and say that I dont find Stormreach confusing at all. Does that mean I dont understand game design? Hmmm...
You dont like the confusing City. You dont like looking for quest starters. You obviously dont want to explore the city to find hidden quest starters. You dont want to use the Quest Journal to find quest starters. WTH?! whats up? talk about trivial problems. It seems the only problem here is you being difficult about the game, and is deffinately not seeing this objectivly!
just my 2 pennies
Ok OP to sum it up.
You don't want to look for quests, you don't want to use adventure journal to look for quests, you simply want to have a big building with all the quest givers inside for your level. If you are a gamedesigner, I hope I'll never get a chance to play your game if you think fun is "yes" button, getting everything served right under your nose.
How dare you call me a fanboy? You come to DDO forums trying to bitch that the city is a mess and that you can't find quests for you, and then if someone who actually is playing the game for much longer time has a different opinion, you just call him a fanboy. You are a troll to me, because you didn't really bring the issues we (those who play) realize it has. Which is probably not enough dungeons yet, not all classes that were announced at release, no socialization (guild halls) yet implemented and a couple of others.
REALITY CHECK
Wow amazing ... the ability you have to turn someone posts into something else ,,
You don't want to look for quests, you don't want to use adventure journal to look for quests, you simply want to have a big building with all the quest givers inside for your level.
I have never said any of that and meaning on my post is neaither ...I am saying that the way you look for quest is extrimly boring ,for there is nothing to find while doing it and walking trough the city its not exactly the greatest adventure , not as if you are going to be ambushed or another quest is going to happen outside these doors ,well nothing to happen at all,,, be realistic and objective and then we can talk ....
whole search and explore thing... is just about you being a postman and knocking at the doors
and yet if you get bored of this postman kind of exploring then you can look into a journal and have it all served on the plate which is worst .....
What I am saying between lines is
they need to make city itself more alive and introduce some event that will lead to some action or quest , just doors to find while exploring is not enough for a game of aaa MMO standard
You are a troll to me, because you didn't really bring the issues we (those who play) realize it has. Which is probably not enough dungeons yet, not all classes that were announced at release, no socialization (guild halls) yet implemented and a couple of others.
This was the end of my post
Conclusion: whilst quests itself are absolutely superb, everything else such as outside areas, city layout and pre-quest concept is absolutely horrible with nothing else to do.
And again; not enough content per level … we should not need to repeat any quest in order to level
what the hell do you think that ; not enough content per level means if not dungeons .?lollipops?. please read post before replying ... and more classes are the least of DDo's problems there is more then enough classes .... more content should be primary so we dont need to repeat quests 3 times in order to level
1. There is no shortage of content at this point. Sure, there can always be more, but you don't need to grind out repeating quests to level.
2. The layout of the outside areas is fantastic...have you actually been in any of them? Tangleroot Gorge? Sorrowdusk Isle? Gianthold? the Orchard? The Restless Isles? The Desert? Ataraxia's Haven?
3. The city...also laid out in a pretty simple way. Harbor? Low level quests. Marketplace? slightly higher level. Various houses? Higher still. Highest level quests require transportation to get to the other cities, like Necropolis, Gianthold, Threnal, Desert, etc.
If your complaint is that you'd like to get mugged walking from the bank to the entrance to Redfang, go play another game...this isn't it...thank god.
Honestly I think your full of a load of crap if your claiming to be in the game business. If you are then you must be the one making some of the shoddiest single player adventure games out there. You can't think in terms of single player games with MMOs...MMOs are supposed to give that living breathing world effect. Which is why things aren't in the good ol abc order, because the real world isn't either and the D&D pen n paper world is not all abc either. There's always people willing to help if you just ask, thats the whole social aspect that makes a game an MMO...maybe your just not prepared for MMOs....hell with only 30 mins to play I dont know how you get any of the coolest DDO quests even done less you just run straight through them or skip them entirely.
DDO is for the casual group gamer...try a different game its as simple as that. Every MMO has a different player play style in mind when made. Some like WoW or EQ2 are made for several different play styles..some .. like DDO ...are not.
Please Refer to Doom Cat with all conspiracies & evil corporation complaints. He'll give you the simple explination of..WE"RE ALL DOOMED!
DDO is a solid game, and could (potentially), be alot better. The biggest problem it has right now isn't so much the lack of content, which it does have, it is the lack of levels. 14 levels currently, with the cap going to 16, is nice. However, you can easily hit cap level without finishing all the quests. After that, then what? Roll another class, rince repeat?
1. City Design = there is no written rule that states a city must be in a straight line.
2. Quest location = Locating quests, while a pain, is a necessity. It is no different than searching for the ideal leveling "camp" in various PvE games.
3. Travel = LOL! Travel in DDO takes 5min...max.
4. Rushers/Runners = No comment here because I rushed through quests as well, particularly the quests from levels 1-6. I would slow down if asked to, but if someone has been playing the game since day1, takeing 45min to run Waterworks is B-O-R-I-N-G!
5. Outside areas = Are NOT meant for leveling! They are meant for
DDO is working on the same philosophy that other games are, "Provide content for the current subscribers to keep them." If 90% of your subsriber base is cap level, that means you need to provide them with something to do to keep them entertained. The lower levels are a moot point. People leveled using what was available to them, thus, having to add more "low level" conent, isnt necessary. I don't endorse this concept, but, it is what most of the MMOs do. (Outside of adding new starting areas and such like WoW and EQ have done.)
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Contrary to many of the posters that think they've been playing the game a long time, I think the OP has brought up some valid complaints about the design of DDO.
When the first part of Litany of the Dead came out (the Necropolis), there were no map notes or any other clues in game about the location of the area of adventure. I spent the better part of a day's play time trying to find what had changed from the old maps and guessing where they would put an old, defunct graveyard. I eventually gave up and consulted the forums (which had threads posting the location, which confirms that I was not the only one confused) for the information. The transport point for the Necropolis was a simple wagon, without any new NPC in front of it, and the wagon had existed at the location before, in previous modules. The fact that such an uninteresting yet difficult to find mechanism had been incorporated annoyed me in the extreme.
As the OP has noted, however, the poor design doesn't end there. Dungeons are linear, and combat is generally the only means to overcome encounters. If you don't have a guide who has done the quest 3 times over the quests can be difficult to find, and the tactics to complete them can seem arbitrary and silly. Such quests, around 5 or 6 outdoor adventure areas, and a rather limited PvP arena are the only forms of gameplay currently included - which leaves immersion in the game a difficult prospect.
The technical aspects of DDO have a lot of potential. They are desperately in need of guidance, however, from some better game designers.
Did you ever bother with reading the in-game letters you get from turbine after a update?
LOL...I think we all know the answer to that already
It's just like people complaining they don't feel involved in the storylines...but they never bother to read the NPC interactions about the quests.
To OP: Sorry lad I wasn't able to read the mess you posted as a reaction to mine. If you haven't mastered simple forum usage yet, I am not surprised you want more LINEAR games and that the city in DDo seems very non-linear to you.
Someone mentioned here the dungeons are linear in DDo. They are to some extent, but if we compare them to any competition on the market, they are much less linear than any dungeon in EQ/WoW/Lotro. Actually plenty DDo dungeons are quite open with multiple ways to do things. There are plenty of optional passages with optional objectives that can increase your reward in every dungeon.
The game is actually pretty non-linear. Non-linear character development (you have tons of choices every level), non-linear town, non-linear dungeons. There is no story-line that would try to hold you by your hand and forces you to do something.
REALITY CHECK
<blockquote><i>Originally posted by Roguewiz</i>
<br><b><p>
<p>3. Travel = LOL! Travel in DDO takes 5min...max.</p></p></b></blockquote>
That's the main thought I had while reading those posts. Most other MMOs have the player running around forever just to get to a quest or quest giver. While that can be fun at times, anyone who says there is a lot of travel time in DDO is hard to take seriously.
I have to agree with the op, the cities are very clustered and confusing , this is a game that is very difficult to solo except for the first few hours or so, quessters who run through quests kill the immersion and there are many of those idiots, combat system is excellent the rest needs work.
When I said there was "no other clues," I wasn't lying. Yes, I always read the in game letters completely at the beginning of every update. The people who wound up telling everyone else on each server usually admitted it took them half an hour to 45 minutes to find the zone entrance after the servers were back up.
Maybe it's just me, but 45 minutes total...in your timespan of playing an MMO...to find an outdoor zone...really doesn't strike me as a fault with the game.
I just had to make a comment here... I play just about every mmorpg that comes out when I can afford it, or at least play the free trials. What struck me about the layout of this game, which the OP was critical about, is that instead of being a virtual world such as EQ or DAOC, etc., it's built more like a launching pad for adventures much like you would do when playing pencil and paper D&D (which this game very closely follows, of course).
So, the city is just a place to sell your loot, and buy gear to prepare for doing a "module". The "modules" in DDO are the quests. In pencil/paper D&D, it wasn't uncommon to play modules repeatedly to level characters, though a good GM would make the experience different each time.
This is quite different from games like Everquest, which is basically a virtual world that you go out and explore and find enemies to battle. I used to call it Neverquest because there were hardly any quests at all, and most of the gameplay was grinding "camps" of monsters over and over.
Newer games like World of Warcraft are almost linear in their approach, with quests moving you from area to area as you level up. Quests give you massive xp and level you up so you don't need to repeat quests (and can't repeat most), and you get more of the same in the next area with different quest names and different mobs, but basically the same kill x number these mobs, or gather x number of this item, or go kill this boss. You can go just about anywhere you want, and you don't actually have to do any quests if you don't want, but the overall flow of the game is very linear.
It seems to me that the OP is looking for a style like World of Warcraft; an open world with linear flow, areas for specific levels of grinding/questing, and the game guiding you through that linear flow via the quests. DDO doesn't fit that format, and that is what the OP doesn't like, I think. The quests are basically independent "modules" like D&D modules set within the same world.
Well anyway, that's my view of things.