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State of The Game: Roma Victor

sempiternalsempiternal Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

Scoop - 12oz - A105

 

Here's the real scoop,

The original game design Redbedlam (RB) posted on their website was almost exactly what I was looking for in an MMORPG.  I've been trying to play RV for over a year and a half now, but mostly I just read the forums because the game has had serious problems supporting what I want to do, which is weekly PvP competitions and standings.  However, after following the game for such a long time, I have a very in-depth knowledge of the game and designs.

To me it seems RV is more of a side-project or hobby for KFR and team.  In that respect they could probably keep it going for as long as they like.  The main problem is if something better comes along in the meantime it will give people even less of a reason to try it out; thereby not giving RV a chance to grow a decent playerbase.  With the same respect, because it's not a dedicated team all working together in the same office every day - all day (development is coordinated across the internet among several people living in different locations), the game also suffers from very slow development and coordination problems.  The most recent update is over six months behind expectations.

The population is extremely low for an MMORPG.  It's not even really fair to call it an MMORPG in the sense of being Massively Multiplayer, it's more like a basic multiplayer game that you play with a couple of dozen friends.  Typically, you will not see more than 20 people logged in to the most populated town.  There are only a few other towns and in them you can typically expect to find about 5 others.  If you go to other areas you will be lucky if you even see 1 or 2.

 

lorica_segmentata_a.jpg

 

Still, you're not going to find the RV experience anywhere else yet.  The crafting is the best I have seen of any MMORPG.  Because it is so detailed and difficult, it gives crafted items real value.  Some players are always complaining they don't want to craft things because it's too hard - which is exactly what gives other players the chance to craft things and sell them.  However, what hurts crafting is that you are very limited on selling your goods because there are a limited number of NPC merchants and a limited number of players to sell to. 

The PvP is also one of the best designs I have seen in that you actually have to aim your attacks at specific body parts and all body parts take their own damage.  All gear is craftable and somewhat balanced - there are no superpowered magical weapons, and the best items are very expensive, which keeps players from risking them often.  Also, it does require a decent effort to earn your skills, so skills are somewhat respected and appreciated; if skills were easy nobody would care.  One major PvP aspect that is still missing from the original design is full loot, right now you only get one item if you kill someone.

And, unfortunately, a recent paradox that KFR has introduced is skill loss upon any death.  This was an attempt to make death painful because skills are difficult to earn.  But the problem is, since hard-earned skills are lost regardless of how a player dies, players have been losing skills due to crashes and bugs ever since it was implemented.  They can't just make the skills easy to gain either, because that would then destroy the main game design.  The skill loss was intended to deter players from being too wreckless in combat, but what it has also done is deter people from playing - nobody wants to lose hard earned skills for any reason, especially to crashes and bugs.  If I tried to hold some more PvP tournaments it's very likely that very few would want to participate because it would mean losing skills upon every death.  I predict these problems will continue into the future because there is always going to be griefing, crashes, and bugs in online games.

 

nhc_wolf_a_m.jpg

 

Mostly the game has suffered due to an early release that was absolutely horrible and RV will never live that down.  When RB announced a release date for RV, I strongly urged KFR not to release the game and pointed out the significant problems the game still had.  I suggested it would be better to remain in beta than ruin their one chance at release.  The bad release was mostly because of lag and crashes.  While somewhat better after the first few months, the problems continued for over a year.  Every time I log in, I can usually expect at least one crash, and when that happens, I just call it a day and do something else.  There have been some bugs along the way, but nothing really game stopping like the crashes and lag that drove players away right from the beginning.

As a result, the only chance the game has left is to try to slowly grow through word of mouth while constantly releasing small updates to keep the few current players interested, and at the same time improve upon the unique qualities that the game offers.  Since it does seem more like a hobby for the development team, there's a good chance it will probably be running for quite some time.  The question will be if they can build up critical mass before competitors arrive or before too many give up.

My advice is if you are looking for something unique, an iron-age simulation with outstanding crafting and a unique combat system, then give it a try for $40 bucks. It's free to play after that, so if it does not quite suit you just yet, you can always come back later without spending a dime.  But, don't invest much more of your money into it yet.

 

rudius_a.jpg

 (everything but the scoop are actual game items)

Comments

  • MrDDTMrDDT Member UncommonPosts: 276

    Great post and almost 100% correct.

    I would like to point out a problem with the PVP and I dont know if this is the right topic to bring it up but, I feel it has more problems then just not having full loot (which I dont think the game will be ready for, not for a long time).

    That problem is most of the battles are stand there and click click click, yes you have to aim but its not all that hard to aim for the head or chest. Just dont aim for the shield and you are good. The tactics are lacking greatly in this game. There are really no special skills to choose from.

    You just do thrust because its the best attack. Any other attack is lacking in the tactics to use it. There is no tactic to get them in the back the defense is the same in the back or the front. Sure you might want to try to stay behind them but its hard to do because you can spin around as fast as you wish. But there is no real tactics.

    Now there are some tactics in fighting 10 on 10 or something but thats not the type of fighting Im talking Im talking about each player playing tactics.

    You look at other MMO's and you have a choice to do hamstrings (like a snare to slow them) or open up their defense so others can attack, or even your next attack can hit. But these are at a cost to you, maybe using more vigour, or leaving yourself open, or doing less damage on the attacks. But there are tactics. RV has little combat tactics.

    Plus other then a shield armor is not very effective, as its not balanced enough.

    But I dont want to go to far off topic.

    -MrDDT

  • tvalentinetvalentine Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,216

    pretty good review. Everything you said is pretty much true.

    image

    Playing: EVE Online
    Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
    Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
    KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -

  • mackdawg19mackdawg19 Member UncommonPosts: 842

    Nice Reveiw. But I gotta ask this, for what? You just basically stated that this game is in bad terms, even while sliding around it. So what would make me spend 40 bucks to help them improve this game? Im sure everyone appreciates your willingness to help this community thrive, if there is one. But there comes a time when you just need to let things go. I for one didnt even know this game was out so that goes to show you why there is so little population in the game. I doubt the devs for this game will ever fix what needs to be fixed nor care if it ever gets fixed. As you stated this game was a hobby, and you are most likely correct. You should instead invest your time in finding out if they have plans to take on another game. Then if you value your money in your pocket, move the other direction. Either way, good luck with what ever comes about this game, just wanted to talk with you from an outsiders perspective.

  • sempiternalsempiternal Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    I agree DDT, you do have to admit that a good PVP design is in the game, it just needs to be balanced.  The ability to attack specific body parts, each of them taking their own damage and appropiately affecting your related stats according to the area of the body damaged, i.e. you get hit in the head and you're not so bright for a while, along with having to conserve energy, is one of the best MMORPG combat designs.

    Accordingly, I suppose you could say that looting just needs to be balanced also, so that instead of one item you have the chance to loot all items given enough time.

    Maybe these things will eventually happen, it all comes right back to development time again...

  • sempiternalsempiternal Member UncommonPosts: 1,082

    Originally posted by mackdawg19


    Nice Reveiw. But I gotta ask this, for what?

    For what?  Mostly I have an interest in the MMO industry as a whole, so I like to discuss MMOs.  RV still offers something to be interested in when compared to most other boilerplate MMOs.  As such, I'm just giving a fair experienced review of the current game.

  • MrDDTMrDDT Member UncommonPosts: 276


    Originally posted by sempiternal
    I agree DDT, you do have to admit that a good PVP design is in the game, it just needs to be balanced. The ability to attack specific body parts, each of them taking their own damage and appropiately affecting your related stats according to the area of the body damaged, i.e. you get hit in the head and you're not so bright for a while, along with having to conserve energy, is one of the best MMORPG combat designs.
    Accordingly, I suppose you could say that looting just needs to be balanced also, so that instead of one item you have the chance to loot all items given enough time.
    Maybe these things will eventually happen, it all comes right back to development time again...


    Im not going to disagree that the PvP design is so far good. But like you said it needs more. If this is all that the design is, then is overall bad, because I believe its not finished.

    It would be like a runner running a race. He sprints the first 50 yards in 2 seconds then stops and passes out. Does that make him a great 100 yard runner? Nope. Same thing here, they have part of the PVP in that I believe is a great way, however, they need the rest of it before its even fun.
    They need more tactics. Give the players something more to do.

    I wouldnt be playing RV if I didnt believe RB could do it over time. Im just saying I hope they keep going with it and dont stop. I know they need time, but it could be that they believe its done also. If they believe that then I feel that the PVP system is broke and not good, even though that great PART of it is the aiming and other systems (like bleeds) are really well done, its not enough.

    Some might call me a fanboi, while others might call me a hater. I believe Im right in the middle. Im a fanboi in some ways because I believe in the game, yet Im a hater in some ways because I see its not done yet.

    I know that RB is a small team and Im trying to support them, at the same time Im protecting myself by not going overboard on this game. I hope RB does really well because I want RV to be the game Ive been looking for. Right now its falling really short of that.

    Anyways I hope thats not to much of a rant.

    I really do love the ideas that KFR and the devs are putting into the game, I hope they keep it up. Im here to help in ways I can without putting to much money into this game I dont know if it will pan out or not yet.

    -MrDDT

  • mehhemmehhem Member Posts: 653
    Originally posted by sempiternal


    Scoop - 12oz - A105
     
    Here's the real scoop,
    The original game design Redbedlam (RB) posted on their website was almost exactly what I was looking for in an MMORPG.  I've been trying to play RV for over a year and a half now, but mostly I just read the forums because the game has had serious problems supporting what I want to do, which is weekly PvP competitions and standings.  However, after following the game for such a long time, I have a very in-depth knowledge of the game and designs.

    You've never played it though right?  Wouldn't that make your opinion meaningless?

  • philjwillphiljwill Member Posts: 80
    Originally posted by mehhem

    Originally posted by sempiternal


    Scoop - 12oz - A105
     
    Here's the real scoop,
    The original game design Redbedlam (RB) posted on their website was almost exactly what I was looking for in an MMORPG.  I've been trying to play RV for over a year and a half now, but mostly I just read the forums because the game has had serious problems supporting what I want to do, which is weekly PvP competitions and standings.  However, after following the game for such a long time, I have a very in-depth knowledge of the game and designs.

    You've never played it though right?  Wouldn't that make your opinion meaningless?

    Idiot. Course he has...

  • VepgenusVepgenus Member Posts: 398

    Semp hasn't played the game in depth for a long while. If you want a good straight review ask DDT, not Semp.

  • VirtusVirtus Member Posts: 492

    Originally posted by Vepgenus


    Semp hasn't played the game in depth for a long while. If you want a good straight review ask DDT, not Semp.

    What not you tell him how great it is?

  • ZorgoZorgo Member UncommonPosts: 2,254

    So far no one has mentioned what imo is the single unsurmountable problem with Roma Victor: the graphics.

    Everything above should be taken with the caveat that you don't play mmo's for graphics but rather for mechanics and systems solely. Because if you have any interest in high end graphics, this game is going to forever fall short.

    I simply will never be able to enjoy this game. I don't believe that graphics are the only thing to look for in an mmo, but it is certainly one of the factors, and for me, its a factor that can break the game if it is done as poorly as RV. I was able to endure EQ for a year passed it becoming graphically outdated, simply because of the mechanics, but even as good as those mechanics are, I can't justify playing EQ anymore because there are other games now that have a better balance between graphics and gameplay.

    If RV is really to succeed, they need to rework the graphics from the ground up, new engine, new skins, decent art direction. I'm not saying it has to be graphically demanding, WoW did fine with low end graphics plus great art direction. I'm not asking for the moon, just competence.

  • siredmondsiredmond Member Posts: 122

    So what are you looking for in the graphics? Ultra high res textures? Ultra High Poly Models? Ultra High precision lighting? Really cool looking rainbows comming from someone's backside ? Lots of bloom ?

     

  • VepgenusVepgenus Member Posts: 398

    Wow dude what games have you been playing. I've played SWG, WoW, WWII Online and i can say the graphics for Roma Victor are pretty good. Have you even played any MMO's? Or have you just been playing highly polished Single Player games? Your entitled to your opinion of course but the graphics in RV are good enough.

  • ZorgoZorgo Member UncommonPosts: 2,254

    Originally posted by siredmond


    So what are you looking for in the graphics? Ultra high res textures? Ultra High Poly Models? Ultra High precision lighting? Really cool looking rainbows comming from someone's backside ? Lots of bloom ?
     
    Not necessarily any of those things.....

    WoW had low rest textures, low poly models, etc, but their art direction was top notch, they did more with less.

    VG also has great graphics, with almost the opposite of WoW; their art direction could have used some consistancy, but the high poly's and res, etc. still make it look phenomenal.

    I think the nail in the coffin for me is when a game uses low end graphics, but their art direction seems uninspired. That's what I think about RV - they should have done more with what they were working with. To me, it looks like EQ technology without inspired art direction. That simple.

  • ZorgoZorgo Member UncommonPosts: 2,254

    Originally posted by Vepgenus


    Wow dude what games have you been playing. I've played SWG, WoW, WWII Online and i can say the graphics for Roma Victor are pretty good. Have you even played any MMO's? Or have you just been playing highly polished Single Player games? Your entitled to your opinion of course but the graphics in RV are good enough.

    I've played: EQ, EQ2, CoH, SWG and VG.

    I've tried: auto assault, lotr and ddo.

    I think all of those have better graphics then RV.

    The last 'highly polished single player game' I've played was Civilization III - so I think I'm experienced enough with mmo's to give my opinion on their graphics.

    You and I may be looking for different things in determining 'pretty good'; but to act as if I'm going out on a limb to say RV has bad graphics......hate to tell you this, but if you think they are 'pretty good' you are in a small minority.

    It may be that gameplay overshadows graphics for you, I know this is the case with many gamers. But I look at it this way, I play 'Video Games' not just 'games'; so the 'video' part makes  graphics equally important. And if the game doesn't deliver graphically, I feel that I've wasted my money. But hey, I'm a visual person more than anything.

    Lastly, if you didn't like the graphics of the games you listed more than RV - I'd say that you didn't appreciate the art direction those games took. That's a perfectly valid argument, like the 'WoW = cartoon' argument. I don't like the cartooniness of WoW, but can appreciate that it had solid art direction. It seems more likely that art direction isn't that important to you; so that you don't really recognize what went into a games graphical design. If that were true, I can see how you wouldn't have noticed that those games you mentioned all had better graphics then RV.

    Yes, yes, it is opinion. But, my opinion is shared by the majority, creating the 'fact' that many gamers are turned off by RV's graphics. Ergo, they should redesign the game graphically if they want to draw in more folks, the 'word of mouth' about great gameplay will never change someone's opinion that the graphics stink up the screen.

     

  • VirtusVirtus Member Posts: 492

    ROFL, some one missed the, lets bash the graphics band wagon

    God, when this game came out there were so many of them and we all said the same thing, don't like them, piss off they arn't going to change for a few ppl who are graphic whores, thats not what this game is about.

     

  • VepgenusVepgenus Member Posts: 398

    That's fine if you don't like the graphics it's your own opinion they aren't terrible like you have stated nor are they top of the line either, but they work just fine for me :).

    Also no way is the SWG graphics better i am a pre-nge VET of SWG so i should know.

  • ZorgoZorgo Member UncommonPosts: 2,254

     

    Originally posted by Virtus


    ROFL, some one missed the, lets bash the graphics band wagon
    God, when this game came out there were so many of them and we all said the same thing, don't like them, piss off they arn't going to change for a few ppl who are graphic whores, thats not what this game is about.
     And then we said, 'that's exactly why this game is going to fail' - hmmm, who turned out to be right? So, guess what, I can now return the favor and say 'piss off', they probably should have considered making it at least a small part in 'what this game was about'.

     

    I was directly talking to the OP's point.......it is absolutely true that in addition to what the OP mentioned, having better graphics would help this game to succeed. Sorry for trying to add something new to this specific thread about 'the state of RV'.  Are you saying that if this game had top notch graphics, it would not benefit the games population base?

    Second, I completely agree - graphics are not what this game is about, hence my point - low low low population, limping along rather than thriving. If the game included this amazing gameplay with graphics then you have a 'video game'. As is, you just have a game - and most believe it is ugly. So...us 'few graphic whores' in reality means the vast majority of computer gamers. The ones who have heard of this train wreck anyway.

    But if you exibit the wonderful, helpful and understanding community that RV represents, perhaps I should reconsider - crappy graphics + broken gameplay + *sshole community that tells people to piss off when they politely add to a thread about the state of RV- what is not to love about this game?

  • ZorgoZorgo Member UncommonPosts: 2,254

    Originally posted by Vepgenus


    That's fine if you don't like the graphics it's your own opinion they aren't terrible like you have stated nor are they top of the line either, but they work just fine for me :).
    Also no way is the SWG graphics better i am a pre-nge VET of SWG so i should know.
     I apologize for my opinion being wrong that RV graphics are terrible. I guess I was thrown off by my incorrect opinion being shared with thousands of others.



    P.S. I suggest that you go to the SWG vet boards, since you are one of them,  and post your assertion that RV graphics are better than SWG. I bet you'll receive a warm response and be able to prove how wrong my opinion is. I'm sure that the majority of gamers see no difference between the graphic quality of those two games .

    I almost want to put that quote in my tag line 'I am a pre-nge VET of SWG so i should know". Best summary of vet attitude I've ever heard.

     

  • TaeraTaera Community ManagerMember CommonPosts: 1,078

    This thread is in danger of becoming nasty :) locking.

    Laura "Taera" Genender
    Community Manager
    MMORPG.com

This discussion has been closed.