We have discussed this to death... you know as well as I do that goats are not the only thing overpriced... The one thing you need to do is sit back take a deep breath and then think ok 500 ses is supposed to last a player a month with prices, even on basic crap, will it last? and the answer you should/will come up with every single time is a huge resounding NO.
I come up with a YES after many of these issues I was saying are changed. Right now? No 500 ses will NOT last that long. However, many things are still not fixed in the game. Sure 500 might do it now, but might not either. I dont see any amount of ses lasting a player right now as they wont be in the game long enough to keep playing.
But once many other issues are changed, yes I totally see 500ses lasting a month. Maybe even more in most cases.
I really hope you dont come back as its better off without you. You provide nothing for the game and only try to take or break.
Lets see, you want to run me off like you and the others ran off the rest of the community(all 4,900/5,000 keys sold) when they posted what was wrong with the game after release. And you make assumptions about me not providing anything to the game... even though I donated more money to the game than you ever did... Seems I have more of a right to say what I want to about this game than you do period.
Keep your whining up, I bet there is another game out there that can use another 15 year old.
Then you sling a childish insult at me in a pathetic attempt to get me to post something that may get me banned. (common tactic)
I think you missed the point was is price was off before, and its still off again. Tents are a lot less then 10k now.
And this is your point, kinda weak huh? It was mine too... And I noticed that you didn't respond with the actual price of tents now, as that would have just strengthened my point. But I think you know that.
And yeah I know you guys just want the RV forums here to show that RV is improving(atleast a lil bit) so that a new player might be suckered into giving money to RB for this POS, but you know what ...NO. Reguardless of if it is me or someone else, someone will always be posting the truth about this game just so that dosen't happen to anyone else.
SO if anyone should go away it is you, go away and come back and post when and if, RB ever makes some decent changes and fixes to this POS they want to call a game. But when you do expect to have them picked apart, maybe not by me but I am sure someone will be up the the task.
Ps: A fanboi on vacation is still a fanboi. Especially when he tries to defend the game against such an obvious flaw...
Don't worry Phil, I am off to play a real game and will let you guys waller arround in this mess you call a game, in peace... for a bit.
Odd first you havnt vermed more then me according to the "How much you spent on RV" post.
Second, you are wrong when you think Im trying to get new people to play it. Go back and READ my posts. Im telling new players NOT to play RV.
As I dont believe RV is ready for new players until they get it working better.
I didnt post the price as the price isnt set for us, because people have to contact us to set a price. Im the trader for prolly the largest trading guild in the game. I know the prices and I can tell you its a LOT less then 10k try around 5k, if you really need me to name a price.
You really need to go read through my posts, I pick the game part in lots of places, however, unlike you I know about the game and I play it all the time. I know both sides of the fence too. The points you are trying to make are not bad for RV, you are trying to base your things on those points when it has nothing to do with that.
It would be like saying the skill decay system is bad because you die to crashes all the time. That doesnt make skill decay bad it makes CRASHING WORSE!! If they fixed the crashing then the skill decay system would be great.
Or saying that combat is bad (which I believe it is but using this as a way to show in other games) because it lags so much and you cant do any special moves. Yet they say that they are fixing lag and sure enough they fix lag and now combat is great.
You dont change the combat to the fact that its laggy, you FIX THE LAG!
You are doing the samething for the verming. You dont change verm to fix the fact that there are few people playing due to crashing, you fix the crashes to get more people playing. It makes no sense to fix verm to get more people playing only to have them leave because of crashes. Then when you do fix the crashes only to change verm BACK because it would then be broke again. Thats just not good way to go about changing a game.
Ok first you posted you spent $200 on the game I spent nearly $400....
You are telling them not to play as you don't like certain areas, I am telling them not to play as I don't like certain areas...(so they fix it) I don't jump in an critique your posts on what you don't like(cause I want that fixed too) yet you jump on my saying I am a 15yr old and don't know WTF I am talking about... LOL. (cause you stand to lose a little money on your sales)
Ok half that 5k for a tent....5 K FOR A TENT MAN!!!! .... but you will never get it I know. In some twisted world you think 5k for a tent is ok... when 500 ses is supposed to last a month.(from RB's own mouth)
Big thing about it is you think a new player wants to buy verm and pay these ridiculous prices while they are fixing or even after they have fixed crashes. But one thing you don't realize I crashed all of 3 times playing RV and I played alot too.(more towoard launch than later) So crashes had absolutely nothing to do with it for me... It was the stupid prices up and down. And yeah the lack of a large community to partake in any type of activity.(like training)
Im not saying the prices are wrong. I still think 5k for a tent is too much, however, tell me what that has to do with verm? NOTHING the prices are to high for a tent because still many things are not fixed in the game. Like still goats are not able to be controlled, dung is still way high and limited on how you can get it, saltwater is only able to be bought from the vendor. On top of ALL that, yous till have the fact there is very few people in the game which will ALSO drive prices up due to the fact no one can make these things or do these things, and there is no one competing as much as they should have too.
So if Im the only tent maker, and i have no one really to help me to get the costs lower on my tents, they are going to be a lot more costly then say when there is 100 people making tents and there are 1000 people making or helping with the things that go into making a tent.
Yet you want to change something like VERM which has NOTHING to do with that factor.
I dont know where you are getting your 400$ but you said 200$ before. If you spend 400$ good for you.
I dont know why you would spend more in a system you dont believe in, but I guess you have your reasons.
500ses that RB is also saying isnt talking about everyone owning a tent either. Most people WONT own a tent, not unless they expect to pay more. That would be like saying 500ses is going to last a Guild Master 1 month. But it wont because a Guildmaster has to do many other things then a normal player.
I was being conservative and said 240 but again that was conservative I am sure I spent more, and forgot to add my alts verm in 2or so times max verm... so more arround 340+ (not being exact either I know what it adds up to I am avging as I spent more)some change. Don't care TBH I spent what I did cause I thought the game had promise and thought they would have completed it much sooner(says alot about what I thought of the game)..... but boy was I wrong...still waiting
You honestly don't think that people would have owned a tent back then? Geez. Most would have had a dung hut atleast but a tent would be next to nothing...hell they could have made one out of their old clothes sewn together and dipped in tar... not talking about a emperor sized tent here just a tent for slave or hunter to sleep in.
Reguardless though you keep sidesteping the fact that RB said they would and could keep the ses value in check and that have done nothing of the sort.
And we aren't talking about guildmasters we are talking about new players, they would and should be able to afford basic gear and shelter on 500ses a month. Especially if they were buying more ses Like I was.... from lack of playtime. That was my counter to lack of playtime like RB said it would be. I work so I can pay more, but kids that don't work and have tons of time don't have to pay and can still make it in the game.
They came nowhere near having verm and ses work in the way they said it would and that is a huge problem.
And DDT, you may want to read back and look at Kruniac's posts too. I know you like to khink I am the only one who feels this way but it is far from the case. Just because few of us post it dosen't mean their arent many who agree or feel that way.
I mean out of the 5k keys sold how many even bother to post why they left or what they want to see fixed? Not many at all like maybe 100. But if they did i can assure you you would see many saying the same thing.
Again Like I had said with the NPC's pricing. The could have used that as a guide, selling low priced versions of the items players sell to keep prices in check so they didn't get to the 10k for a tent range but did they ? NO, are they trying , NO. They just let the crap run rampant.
I totaly understand what you are saying about the population and the lack of items driving up prices, but has RB done as they said they could to balance their economy because of their mistakes? NO.
But you are steady trying to beat me up saying I don't now what I am talking about, when you aren't trying to understand what I am saying and where I am coming from with it.
Originally posted by shane910 And we aren't talking about guildmasters we are talking about new players, they would and should be able to afford basic gear and shelter on 500ses a month.
I dont think most people would have OWNED their own hut OR tent. I think they would either be USING someone's they were working with/for, or RENTING one.
Anyways rent in Erring, Hoch, Cil and Hurn are open and you can rent hut for much lower then it costs to OWN one. You are acting as if these these are not in place to allow people rent stuff.
Normal people are not buying a hut or a tent. Most dont they use what is provided for them from work. Your troops are not going to buy a tent to live in, no its going to be provided for them to USE!
Im not even saying the system is perfect yet, and still you can do it.
Edit
I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from.
Not even going to read the 15 posts that have been added to this thread since last time I looked. My guess is that Shane is once again stating that he thinks things in Roma Victor cost too much and take too long to make. Am I right?
Well, now getting back to the topic, RedBedlam slipped in a change to the graphics over the weekend. We still can't see the sun in the sky and there still are no shadows on the ground, but now the side of people, objects, and buildings that faces the sun is brighter than the side that does not - realistic shading which has been in other games for years, but we have not had in RV until now.
RB took it a step further though and the virtual location of the sun seems to follow the route in the sky it would during a real day in northern England. It rises in the southeast, gets to the south at noon, and moves it's way to the southwest at the end of the day. Pretty cool stuff. It will now be easier to predict what time it is. Being January in game right now, the days are short and our farmers have comlplained they have limited time where they can get out in the fields and be able to see them to water them properly.
The problem is that its just blatent laziness. Any attemps to change the prices of objects can be met with a "Nope. Dynamic economy and all that. Sorry mate."
That doesnt work when the dynamic economy is influenced by bugs and lack of features. The prices should be manually adjusted to a historical setting and left alone until the dynamic economy works properly.
FFS, at launch you couldnt get dung in the wild. You NEED that for farming (this is for all of the new players not understanding what this is about). Since you cant FIND dung, you have to BUY it. Since people are BUYing it, the prices go skyhigh. Since you cant "get" money in this game via combat, and the merchants are always filled of sellable items (ones they give money for because the merchants themselves dont have any or are low), you have to VERM.
When RB announced the VERM system, I thought it was going to be a Gold-Buyer's dream come true. A system in which they can use real life money to get ahead of everyone else. Instead of JUST that problem coming into play, we have a new problem - RB profits from it, not gold-sellers.
This isnt a player driven economy - its a bug and lack of implementation driven economy. When players cant find the things they need in the wild, things go crazy. Does RedBedlam care? No. THEY profit from this with the VERM system.
The problem is that its just blatent laziness. Any attemps to change the prices of objects can be met with a "Nope. Dynamic economy and all that. Sorry mate."
That doesnt work when the dynamic economy is influenced by bugs and lack of features. The prices should be manually adjusted to a historical setting and left alone until the dynamic economy works properly.
FFS, at launch you couldnt get dung in the wild. You NEED that for farming (this is for all of the new players not understanding what this is about). Since you cant FIND dung, you have to BUY it. Since people are BUYing it, the prices go skyhigh. Since you cant "get" money in this game via combat, and the merchants are always filled of sellable items (ones they give money for because the merchants themselves dont have any or are low), you have to VERM.
When RB announced the VERM system, I thought it was going to be a Gold-Buyer's dream come true. A system in which they can use real life money to get ahead of everyone else. Instead of JUST that problem coming into play, we have a new problem - RB profits from it, not gold-sellers.
This isnt a player driven economy - its a bug and lack of implementation driven economy. When players cant find the things they need in the wild, things go crazy. Does RedBedlam care? No. THEY profit from this with the VERM system.
Its just... wrong.
Agreed 100%
Problem is the ones that play atm, and the only ones RB listens to, dont need to verm as they have all the time in the world to grind away making these items for an imaginary rush of players... so you may as well be doing this while trying to explain this to them.
They think that once players do start playing they will get rich of the ridiculus prices from the items they have been making(and they don't want their profits nutered). Only problem is no player with any common sense will buy items at these prices when their value is converted to RL money(ala VERM). As the only ones that will be buying the items are players that vermed(players that don't have the time needed to waste making them themselves).
Guilds that make the items and give them to players is always an option(almost the only option), and RB should not want that. As that means noone will have to verm just get items from guildmates that have all the time in the world to make items.
What they should be doing is balancing prices out manualy (like they said they could) , so verming is worth while and anyone and everyone can do it and would want to do it because it would be worth the money invested.
It should be based arround the average player spending 15 a month on a online game playing 2 hrs a day about 4-5 days in a week. Play less you could afford to pay less play more yeah you should be paying more, but probably those that play more would be able to substitute some paying for in game working to get by. I know someone will say, "thats how it is now", No, thats how it should be but it is far from how it is now.
Try it, buy $15 in verm, should be about 5k ses. Then survive for a whole month without working for a guild or anyone(as thats why they are verming they don't want to work) without taking handouts, and see just how long it lasts you. I would guess about 3 days TOPS and thats doing hardly nothing in game each day and having no fun whats so ever... Play 2 hrs a day, and try to have fun in that alloted time without burning through the 5k ses you have for the month... and then realize RB said 2,500ses would last a month or more... yeah right.
At the current rate £1 GBP is equivalent to 500 Sesterces. A managed VERM ensures that most people should find that £5's worth of Sesterces would allow them to enjoy life to the full in Roma Victor for at least a month. By supplementing their virtual bank balance with in-game activities, players could be able to survive comfortably on £5's worth of Sesterces for perhaps as much as two or three months. Some players may even be able to continue to play beyond that period without purchasing any more Sesterces at all. And some players may wish to live in greater luxury and comfort and could happily spend over £10 a month just on enjoying the game to the full! But for most players we expect the on-going costs of playing Roma Victor to add up to significantly less than a comparable subscription-based MMORPG. In essence the monthly costs are set by you. You decide how much you pay and how much you play. All we have to do is make sure that you're getting a fair deal. If you don't feel that you are, then all you have to do is stop buying Sesterces. And of course unlike most subscription-based MMORPG's if you do stop playing for a while, your account will remain active without requiring a further regular monthly payment from you.
With the VERM in place, we'll be able to monitor and manage the economy and the exchange rate dynamically. If people ever feel that they're not getting good value from their experience then they don't even have to stop playing - they simply have to stop paying. That's not something that you'll hear many Managing Directors offering their potential customers.
-KFR
P.S. VERM and Roma Victor are registered trademarks, all rights reserved, etc. etc.
The problem is that its just blatent laziness. Any attemps to change the prices of objects can be met with a "Nope. Dynamic economy and all that. Sorry mate."
That doesnt work when the dynamic economy is influenced by bugs and lack of features. The prices should be manually adjusted to a historical setting and left alone until the dynamic economy works properly.
FFS, at launch you couldnt get dung in the wild. You NEED that for farming (this is for all of the new players not understanding what this is about). Since you cant FIND dung, you have to BUY it. Since people are BUYing it, the prices go skyhigh. Since you cant "get" money in this game via combat, and the merchants are always filled of sellable items (ones they give money for because the merchants themselves dont have any or are low), you have to VERM.
When RB announced the VERM system, I thought it was going to be a Gold-Buyer's dream come true. A system in which they can use real life money to get ahead of everyone else. Instead of JUST that problem coming into play, we have a new problem - RB profits from it, not gold-sellers.
This isnt a player driven economy - its a bug and lack of implementation driven economy. When players cant find the things they need in the wild, things go crazy. Does RedBedlam care? No. THEY profit from this with the VERM system.
Its just... wrong.
Agreed 100%
Problem is the ones that play atm, and the only ones RB listens to, dont need to verm as they have all the time in the world to grind away making these items for an imaginary rush of players... so you may as well be doing this while trying to explain this to them.
They think that once players do start playing they will get rich of the ridiculus prices from the items they have been making(and they don't want their profits nutered). Only problem is no player with any common sense will buy items at these prices when their value is converted to RL money(ala VERM). As the only ones that will be buying the items are players that vermed(players that don't have the time needed to waste making them themselves).
Guilds that make the items and give them to players is always an option(almost the only option), and RB should not want that. As that means noone will have to verm just get items from guildmates that have all the time in the world to make items.
What they should be doing is balancing prices out manualy (like they said they could) , so verming is worth while and anyone and everyone can do it and would want to do it because it would be worth the money invested.
It should be based arround the average player spending 15 a month on a online game playing 2 hrs a day about 4-5 days in a week. Play less you could afford to pay less play more yeah you should be paying more, but probably those that play more would be able to substitute some paying for in game working to get by. I know someone will say, "thats how it is now", No, thats how it should be but it is far from how it is now.
Try it, buy $15 in verm, should be about 5k ses. Then survive for a whole month without working for a guild or anyone(as thats why they are verming they don't want to work) without taking handouts, and see just how long it lasts you. I would guess about 3 days TOPS and thats doing hardly nothing in game each day and having no fun whats so ever... Play 2 hrs a day, and try to have fun in that alloted time without burning through the 5k ses you have for the month... and then realize RB said 2,500ses would last a month or more... yeah right.
At the current rate £1 GBP is equivalent to 500 Sesterces. A managed VERM ensures that most people should find that £5's worth of Sesterces would allow them to enjoy life to the full in Roma Victor for at least a month. By supplementing their virtual bank balance with in-game activities, players could be able to survive comfortably on £5's worth of Sesterces for perhaps as much as two or three months. Some players may even be able to continue to play beyond that period without purchasing any more Sesterces at all. And some players may wish to live in greater luxury and comfort and could happily spend over £10 a month just on enjoying the game to the full! But for most players we expect the on-going costs of playing Roma Victor to add up to significantly less than a comparable subscription-based MMORPG. In essence the monthly costs are set by you. You decide how much you pay and how much you play. All we have to do is make sure that you're getting a fair deal. If you don't feel that you are, then all you have to do is stop buying Sesterces. And of course unlike most subscription-based MMORPG's if you do stop playing for a while, your account will remain active without requiring a further regular monthly payment from you.
With the VERM in place, we'll be able to monitor and manage the economy and the exchange rate dynamically. If people ever feel that they're not getting good value from their experience then they don't even have to stop playing - they simply have to stop paying. That's not something that you'll hear many Managing Directors offering their potential customers.
-KFR
P.S. VERM and Roma Victor are registered trademarks, all rights reserved, etc. etc.
It shows that you dont play at all, and if you do, you seem to be blind...
Thats a link to my tribes page, where we cut down prices a while back becuase of all the problems you just talked about... Yes it was like that, if you vermed 5k it would not last you a week, but since we have put in our price list, we have cut that down Drasticly, and we plan to do even more as the time comes.
If the Devs wont do it with the game economy, no biggie we the players will do it ourselves, I dont know anyone that has bought anything form a merchant prolly for about a year now, as you can buy it cheaper from other people, and if you buy from the Lucii well its even better...
Not only that, but we also at times offer jobs which people can do to make a bit of ses, Now considering the prices on our price list, we do not pay what some people were paying for the same type of work, we had to cut down those prices as well... Our main goal as a guild is not only to grow but also be known for doing one of the greatest things for RV, and that is making the prices fair so that people can live off of 5k a month about.
Also, it seems you forget to keep in mind, i understand you are complaining alittle bit for the fact that some people do not have too much time to play, but then again, just because they do not have alot of time to play, does that mean that they should beable to just log in and go out killing people and do whatever else without having to worry about doing alittle bit of work? I dont know about you but IRL if you dont work you cant live, unless you want to live outside like a bum. So why would anything be different in a sandbox game, which is trying to stay somewhat realistic? It wouldn't be therefor you will have to dedicate perhaps one of those days that you have that little bit of time to log in, into working to make some money or perhaps a barter deal for some good/items. And the next time you long in you should be all ready to do what you want. Please keep in mind this is not a fast action game like WOW/UO/Eve, nor is it fantasy.
Im not here to argue nor flame. I am just stating the above ^^ because you are accusing the game of something right now which has been taken care of by the players themselves, so if you want an argument about something find something else, Or just continue to argue just the fact that RB pretty much makes you spend ses in many other ways now at pretty large amounts, just to get more vermers.
Originally posted by philjwill Originally posted by MrDDT I have a hard time believing that someone thinks they can spend 5k in 3 days. I mean I wonder what they are doing to have to spend that much?
Grinding Longsword on pells..
Ya but he is saying he spends 5k in 3 days and plays 2 hours a day. I dont think you can go through 1 LS in 3 days (or 6 hours) even if you did that.
As always I am talking about the game from a NEW PLAYER perspective... big surprise you didn't catch that. But yeah you can burn through some equipment quite fast grinding...I mean training.
You are set up and have a guild already so yeah you can save some money...now, but a new player has to get everything he needs, has to find where to get everythig he needs, and if they try to participate in any combat at all...has to replace parts of the gear he bought each time...
And I will mention it again, the NPC's are where most will likely turn for gear as that is what most do in MMOG's for starter gear... And if they make that mistake they will be out alot of cash fast and have a P!$$ poor impression of the game. (and RB needs to address that)
Not everyone has hours to float arround the forum trying to learn about the game or hours to try to find where the hell these merchants are located, especially when their is no map and it is likely that the player selling is not even on .
I applaud Lucii for those prices, wish everyone was as sensable when it comes to that, but they are not. But last time I checked the in the new player areas I saw no (player) merchants selling for those prices in the area. Not like they are marked clearly anyways but thats another problem this game has. Maybe they were tucked away somewhere and I just missed them...
And no DDT I don't spend 1ses anymore(even when I was playing) don't even verm anymore RB's stupid prices broke me of that, their were no good deals and all their was to do was train anyways... But yeah when I was new to the game I made a few of those mistakes just like any new player would(that wasn't in the beta) and was learning the game. Again we are talking about human beings here, not kids with games hardwired into their veins... we have jobs and familys and just want to relax and have a bit of fun we we have a spare moment. Not study RV 101, or spend hours wandering arround(wasting that time) trying to get a fair deal.
Originally posted by shane910 As always I am talking about the game from a NEW PLAYER perspective... big surprise you didn't catch that. But yeah you can burn through some equipment quite fast grinding...I mean training. You are set up and have a guild already so yeah you can save some money...now, but a new player has to get everything he needs, has to find where to get everythig he needs, and if they try to participate in any combat at all...has to replace parts of the gear he bought each time... And I will mention it again, the NPC's are where most will likely turn for gear as that is what most do in MMOG's for starter gear... And if they make that mistake they will be out alot of cash fast and have a P!$$ poor impression of the game. (and RB needs to address that)
Not everyone has hours to float arround the forum trying to learn about the game or hours to try to find where the hell these merchants are located, especially when their is no map and it is likely that the player selling is not even on . I applaud Lucii for those prices, wish everyone was as sensable when it comes to that, but they are not. But last time I checked the in the new player areas I saw no (player) merchants selling for those prices in the area. Not like they are marked clearly anyways but thats another problem this game has. Maybe they were tucked away somewhere and I just missed them... And no DDT I don't spend 1ses anymore(even when I was playing) don't even verm anymore RB's stupid prices broke me of that, their were no good deals and all their was to do was train anyways... But yeah when I was new to the game I made a few of those mistakes just like any new player would(that wasn't in the beta) and was learning the game. Again we are talking about human beings here, not kids with games hardwired into their veins... we have jobs and familys and just want to relax and have a bit of fun we we have a spare moment. Not study RV 101, or spend hours wandering arround(wasting that time) trying to get a fair deal.
Yes I guess the same could be said in any game. If the new people are no smart enough to look around for other ways then the NPCs to buy items then I dont feel sorry for them. You act like they have to go thru all this trouble or something to find it. When they could find it many ways, 1 walking around and looking at prices (any normal person would do this), 2 ask someone in game where to buy some stuff or who to buy from, 3 look on the forums.
Sounds pretty normal to me. You act as if these new people are going to be buying a tent, and a seg and a longsword. I mean if they are doing that in RV what are going doing in other games? I look at other games where the high end items cost 100$ or REAL money, and are worth MILLIONS and sometimes even BILLIONS of in game gold. Do you expect a newb to run out and think they can get these top end items without putting ANY time into the game? Or any extra money into the game?
You act as if I didnt see what you were saying and what it comes down to is still what you are saying makes no sense.
New players dont expect to have all this extra high priced stuff. You say that most new players will buy STARTER gear from the NPC in most MMO's? I have to disagree, first off its not even like that in RV, I can name 15 MMOs that dont do that.
MOST starter gear is either started with (hence the term starter gear) or given to them through training quests. Just like in RV.
You seem to want to overlook the fact that their is noone arround to ask LOL. That their are no shops set up so you can easily locate and buy gear from.
And no they may not be buying a seg and a longsword but they should be able to buy a tent... that is just stupid. New players have nowhere ...nowhere to put crap. Tent should be the minimal structure for new players to store stuff.
You talk of F2P asian MMO's with a online store to buy crap... those games suck 9 out of 10 times... Kinda like this is turning out. But no this game was supposed to suplement a monthly fee for a fee scaleable to the time you put into it. Not pay to buy a sword or pay to buy armor. But that is exactly what it has turned into for those that don't have all the time in the world.
And in any GOOD MMO, yes you can buy your starter gear off of NPC's. From the description you gave of the game's you play all I can say is you need to raise the bar to the QL of games you play bro...
If you had seen what I was saying you would not, I say again NOT, be talking about "highpriced items" at all... You would only be talking about basic gear for new players...
Oh, and that starter gear you start with for the quests(tasks) in RV... you mean the QL3 shoes, the QL 4 spear, the QL 4 saw and QL 5 knife? LOL That is broken in about 5 seconds of use... LOL
Come on bro get real here. New players need to atleast get some use out of their items.
It is quite clear this game is for those that have tons of money to throw away, or players that have tons of time to put into it. Everyone in between (normal people) are SOL. That is why only about 100(at max) of the 5k keys they sold stuck arround. And thats just cold facts. No matter how much you try to twist stuff to sound good or make me sound bad you can't change that solid fact. And neither can RB apparently, even with all their updates and fixes.
Originally posted by shane910 You seem to want to overlook the fact that their is noone arround to ask LOL. That their are no shops set up so you can easily locate and buy gear from. And no they may not be buying a seg and a longsword but they should be able to buy a tent... that is just stupid. New players have nowhere ...nowhere to put crap. Tent should be the minimal structure for new players to store stuff.
You talk of F2P asian MMO's with a online store to buy crap... those games suck 9 out of 10 times... Kinda like this is turning out. But no this game was supposed to suplement a monthly fee for a fee scaleable to the time you put into it. Not pay to buy a sword or pay to buy armor. But that is exactly what it has turned into for those that don't have all the time in the world. And in any GOOD MMO, yes you can buy your starter gear off of NPC's. From the description you gave of the game's you play all I can say is you need to raise the bar to the QL of games you play bro...
If you had seen what I was saying you would not, I say again NOT, be talking about "highpriced items" at all... You would only be talking about basic gear for new players... Oh, and that starter gear you start with for the quests(tasks) in RV... you mean the QL3 shoes, the QL 4 spear, the QL 4 saw and QL 5 knife? LOL That is broken in about 5 seconds of use... LOL Come on bro get real here. New players need to atleast get some use out of their items.
It is quite clear this game is for those that have tons of money to throw away, or players that have tons of time to put into it. Everyone in between (normal people) are SOL. That is why only about 100(at max) of the 5k keys they sold stuck arround. And thats just cold facts. No matter how much you try to twist stuff to sound good or make me sound bad you can't change that solid fact. And neither can RB apparently, even with all their updates and fixes.
First off there ARE shops set up in Corst and Erring.
Second why do you feel that tents are going to be the first thing a new player should get? They already have a protected site to store stuff in.
You look at other games and having your own building is the END game not for the newbs.
I dont know where you are getting your MMO exp from but please play a few more games use google a bit and then get back to us.
You keep thinking that people are NOT playing due to this econ and verm problem you are saying. People are NOT playing because the game is broke and the one way its WORKING is the way you are trying to say its broke.
You can bring up lag, fps issues, crashing, balance of skills, items and sides, hell there are tons of things like poor AI. But no you trying to fight the ONE thing RV is doing good in. Thats the ECON model.
Those noob items you are talking about is the samething that other games start you out with. You act as if this is totally not normal. Its normal to have crap items as a noob, most people call them NOOBIE items and wouldnt ever buy one after they are noob. Its just the way it works. You know why? If these items were so great people would just make noobs over and over and over again. Hell people already were doing it to the boots and tunic/kilt.
Not only that your QL's are wrong on the items you are talking about, again showing your lack of real data and just trying to mutter up the info. Noobies get higher QL on some items that you listed.
Noob gear isnt meant to be used for a long time its meant for TRAINING and getting the newbs to understand what they can do and how fast they wear out. So they have an idea of what to look for when buying other items to measure worth.
I didnt just list F2P games btw, Im talking about a lot of MMO's so you might need to narrow down what you are talking about. Also you say they suck yet its one of the BEST model of a game being popular out there. (WOW isnt doing it but add up all the F2P vs all the P2P and you will see that F2P have more people buying and making more money then the P2P)
I dont even think you have played a F2P MMO really because I dont think you understand how they work. You seem to think that these F2P games are allowing people to buy items in game that everyone uses. Nope thats not the case at all, they offer items you CANT get in game unless you trade INGAME money for these items through a player.
Their may be a few player merchants standing arround but shops? Nope.
A site that may vanish at any given time lol. They should have a place , like a tent, to store stuff without it just vanishing on them and leaving their stuff up for grabs...That they payed RL money for not just time.
I have played nearly every (good), MMO since Ultima came out my friend. And I do not consider F2P games good period. I have played a few but saw no reason to give them my hard earned cash at all. Only one that came close was RV... but the prices didn't justify me continuing to pay and I don't have enough time to make a job of it in game...
You keep thinking that it is just the problems you mentioned, while I agree they are a large part of it, but you seem to think that the economy has absolutely nothing to do with it and my friend you are wrong. Just because you don't think so dosen't mean you can say noone else does. And I have never said EVERYONE FEELS THE SAME AS ME, but I have said many do. For you to deny that is well... you figure it out.
Excuse me for being off by a few Ql on items I havent seen in over a year... LOL. I do remember when I was learning to craft ,as I though I might give it a go in this game, and I got the saw to gather the logs for the workbench I think. I made one or two cuts and bam, the saw was gone LOL I was WTF??? Then I went to the NPC merchant as their were no player merchants at the time, and saw the INSANE prices realized they they would break nearly as quickly and said screw crafting. Now do you think I am the only person that saw that and felt that way on release? Absolutely not, I saw many posts saying the same thing about the prices and saw the same handfull of players telling them to go play WoW or some other similar comments. Looks as though they did...
I cant help that you dont think any F2P games are good, you dont even list reasons why.
I hate when people say "many" when what they should say is a small % of the pop that dont play. Because thats what you are talking here. A VERY small % of the people that are not playing are not playing because of this reason you list (which most of it is being or has been fixed).
So you are fighting over a small %, instead of talking about the real reasons. Fact of the matter is that a small % are going to leave for the other reason too, if you change it for your idea. So which way is better?
You act as if buying a saw is something a newb would do in other games, normally those are ADVANCED crafting and or after you have been playing for a while. Just think of it like buying a high lvl item. You dont start the game and buy a lvl 50 item for your lvl 1 noob.
You talk about a site that can vanish at anytime? Well I guess again you still dont know what this game is about or how it works. Sites dont vanish at anytime they ALWAYS decay at daychange and unless its a 2/2 QL site it wont decay on the first daychange.
Well for one the F2P games all look the same. They are all grind grind grind then PVP, and you don't stand a chance unless you bought uber items with RL cash. They are all basically the same game with a different look, no real differences except the name and char models. You played one you played them all, so why waste time trying them all out, after the first 3 or 4 you get the gist of it. I am sure you will try to say well some have RVR and some have this and that , that is not a real difference. Anyone can slap a copy of a game down change the models and allow race vs race or relm vs relm.
Yeah all games have some grinding, even UO did, but atleast most the good games have taken steps to seporate themselves from the crowd. They aren't just looking to make a quick buck and fade away, as they are most still hanging on, much like UO is. Now I don't like WoW or EQ anymore, I played them out, but they were interesting enough when they came out and brought something new to the table. They had an easy to use UI and decent graphics good story lines and they were easy and fun to play.(for a while atleast) And thats more than can be said for RV any day of the week period. Same goes for the F2P games. If they were worth a damn they wouldn't be F2P in the first place you can rest assured they would have had a monthly fee atleast for a while. Just look at RF online. There is a classic example of a F2P game. They thought they had a good game thought they could charge a monthly fee(and tried) but when everyone realized it was a crappy copy of older games with minor changes, little fun and hours of grinding they had to go F2P to maintain a player base.
Way off topic, but there since you asked. That is just my opinion on the experiances I have had with F2P, go ahead tell me my opinion is wrong LOL. Since you know what it should be....
How do you know it is a small %? Did they all stop by and say hey DDT I am leaving cause of X reasons? No. I would say about 4,800 just left without a word. But for some reason you can say that it was a small ammount of them felt this way about verm and pricing. LOL I would wager that yeah the majority left once they logged in and saw the 1990's look to the game coupled with the fact that it was incomplete and barren and half of them didn't even bother to look at prices or anything else. But out of the ones that did last that long quite a few posted they thought the prices were high and that VERM sucked.
So you say buying a saw is ADVANCED crafting and noobs would not be buying a saw.........yet for some reason it was part of RV's starter Quests LMAO dude you are something else. Sounded good tho.
And on the site dissapearing yeah they last for about a day or two, but figure most players start out with sites only at QL 2/2 and not everyone can log every single day just to pick up their stuff and create a new site.... But not only that what about those that don't want to do construction? Are they not supposed to have anywhere to put their stuff? Are they forced to skill up a worthless skill(to them) other than to use for storage? Apparently so. Cause they would have to pay out the nose otherwise to buy a tent.... A simple tent that nearly anyone could have made for themselves. Especially in Roman times. You don't honestly think that the Romans were lazy idiots like todays generation do you? Like they would sit arround "Ohh I am poor and can't figure out how to make a covered area to sleep in, so I have to sleep in the open with rain pouring on me..." Geez man give them some credit.
RB should have it so anyone could make a tent just buy a decent sized peice of cloth tar it, get some poles then run some twine between the poles and stake it off. Throw the tar covered cloth over it and let it dry and voilla! a tent that would last atleast a few weeks if you took care of it. Simple fix for new player storage. Then they could leave the current tent for groups as thats what the price suggests anyways.
Have you never spent any time in the wilderness? You would be surprised at what people , even the lazy idiots of today, can come up with when they need to. But you act like they would need a fortune to survive. Hell don't even need money just use nature, some branches and straw would provide atleast some protection from the elements.
RV's hunters could sure use a feature like that, throw up a simple tent or make one from whats arround them to log out in or live in on their hunting trips.
Not everything should have to cost a fortune,even the poor managed to get by and thats the main point.
Ya, its not like you are a slave or anything, I guess you should have all this stuff as a slave huh? Anyways Im done talking to you.
No apparently shane doesn't want to actually have to put effort into getting a strong character going....oh well and I agree DDT don't waste anymore time on Shane, you made some good arguements DDT..
Originally posted by Vepgenus Originally posted by MrDDT Ya, its not like you are a slave or anything, I guess you should have all this stuff as a slave huh? Anyways Im done talking to you.
No apparently shane doesn't want to actually have to put effort into getting a strong character going....oh well and I agree DDT don't waste anymore time on Shane, you made some good arguements DDT..
Great even vep is agreeing with me now. I think I must have turned fanboi.
Ya, its not like you are a slave or anything, I guess you should have all this stuff as a slave huh?
Anyways Im done talking to you.
No apparently shane doesn't want to actually have to put effort into getting a strong character going....oh well and I agree DDT don't waste anymore time on Shane, you made some good arguements DDT..
Great even vep is agreeing with me now. I think I must have turned fanboi.
Yup lol, two peas in a pod...called RV. ;P
IMO tho, if you are verming you shouldn't be considered a slave for long. It should be those that don't that would have that label be harder to break. (through work in game) Another reason to verm.(if it was worth while that is, with better prices all arround NPC's included)
And Vep, I am complaining about prices not skill gains... You have to grind skills in any game. My only complaint about that is as it has always been, lack of players to train with, need a NPC sparing partner with limited gains using them per day. (just to fill the gaps when noone is on and all you want to do is train a bit.)
But yeah I know the game world as we know it would collapse in upon itself and the economy would wither and dry up over night as the remaining 10 players eyes bleed out on their keyboards... LOL.
If the game is that fragile it has more problems than any of us realized before. (which may be the case)
Ya, its not like you are a slave or anything, I guess you should have all this stuff as a slave huh?
Anyways Im done talking to you.
No apparently shane doesn't want to actually have to put effort into getting a strong character going....oh well and I agree DDT don't waste anymore time on Shane, you made some good arguements DDT..
Great even vep is agreeing with me now. I think I must have turned fanboi.
Yup lol, two peas in a pod...called RV. ;P
IMO tho, if you are verming you shouldn't be considered a slave for long. It should be those that don't that would have that label be harder to break. (through work in game) Another reason to verm.(if it was worth while that is, with better prices all arround NPC's included)
And Vep, I am complaining about prices not skill gains... You have to grind skills in any game. My only complaint about that is as it has always been, lack of players to train with, need a NPC sparing partner with limited gains using them per day. (just to fill the gaps when noone is on and all you want to do is train a bit.)
But yeah I know the game world as we know it would collapse in upon itself and the economy would wither and dry up over night as the remaining 10 players eyes bleed out on their keyboards... LOL.
If the game is that fragile it has more problems than any of us realized before. (which may be the case)
Thanks Shane for not flaming in that response and showing actual game concerns. As for training if you are going Roman there are guilds that would be happy to take you as a member and help you train all the skills you want. I can speak for what Corstopitum the starting city will become after we all spread out when our GH's are built, but each guild I know for sure will still have a presence there as we will need recruits. So I think it's safe to say there will always be people in the arena to train. If you plan on flying solo it will be harder at time to find training partners, if you join a guild it will be no problem at all.
Prices for equipment is not that bad on the roman side i know if you join a guild like the 18th legio we supply our men with thier equipment they don't pay any out of pocket unless they can't wait the day or two it will take to make a more extravagant item like armor. Not sure about the freeman side but maybe DDT can cover that area.
I think most freemen are like TdB. We just dont hand out weapons and armor to anyone. Also it takes a lot to get into TdB, it takes time to make sure you will mesh with what TdB is.
After you are in TdB we pretty much give out anything they need. All TdB members help with other things though, so I dont know how well this guy would fit if all he wants to do is be like killer, running around doing raids on corst or something isnt what TdB wants, we wan someone that is a team player. If we need ore, we expect people to help getting ore, if ore isnt your thing help in other ways, like getting firewood and making a pile, or help by adding items to a hut.
From what Ive gathered this guy believes that a guild is just going to give him stuff without him doing anything more then running around killing people. I think what he fails to understand is that joining a guild does 2 things, 1) brings people together to have fun and become close, 2) allows more skills, items and projects to get done with a team effort. By just saying "I log in 2 hours a day and I want to go kill stuff, or only care about my skills" shows that someone like that isnt going to do well in TdB as we want members to think about the guild as a whole and not themselves.
So basic answer to your question is, I would say that TdB does hand out stuff, however, its not free really, it takes as much work to do it yourself as it would for a TdB member to get it free. Only diff is instead of working in many different skills like you would to do it on your own, you can work in a few skills that you like to do.
Ya, its not like you are a slave or anything, I guess you should have all this stuff as a slave huh?
Anyways Im done talking to you.
No apparently shane doesn't want to actually have to put effort into getting a strong character going....oh well and I agree DDT don't waste anymore time on Shane, you made some good arguements DDT..
Great even vep is agreeing with me now. I think I must have turned fanboi.
Yup lol, two peas in a pod...called RV. ;P
IMO tho, if you are verming you shouldn't be considered a slave for long. It should be those that don't that would have that label be harder to break. (through work in game) Another reason to verm.(if it was worth while that is, with better prices all arround NPC's included)
And Vep, I am complaining about prices not skill gains... You have to grind skills in any game. My only complaint about that is as it has always been, lack of players to train with, need a NPC sparing partner with limited gains using them per day. (just to fill the gaps when noone is on and all you want to do is train a bit.)
But yeah I know the game world as we know it would collapse in upon itself and the economy would wither and dry up over night as the remaining 10 players eyes bleed out on their keyboards... LOL.
If the game is that fragile it has more problems than any of us realized before. (which may be the case)
Thanks Shane for not flaming in that response and showing actual game concerns. As for training if you are going Roman there are guilds that would be happy to take you as a member and help you train all the skills you want. I can speak for what Corstopitum the starting city will become after we all spread out when our GH's are built, but each guild I know for sure will still have a presence there as we will need recruits. So I think it's safe to say there will always be people in the arena to train. If you plan on flying solo it will be harder at time to find training partners, if you join a guild it will be no problem at all.
Prices for equipment is not that bad on the roman side i know if you join a guild like the 18th legio we supply our men with thier equipment they don't pay any out of pocket unless they can't wait the day or two it will take to make a more extravagant item like armor. Not sure about the freeman side but maybe DDT can cover that area.
Thanks
LOL not called flaming it's called agreeing.
And I did post concerns about the game as you tried to address them in your post you must have known that.
Have a guild tho don't need one to join. But not playing atm for reasons I stated many times now.
Never asked for handouts as I was a paying member of the community I should not have to look for handouts too bad this game is made so that that is your only option, as I will not.
Comments
I come up with a YES after many of these issues I was saying are changed.
Right now? No 500 ses will NOT last that long. However, many things are still not fixed in the game. Sure 500 might do it now, but might not either. I dont see any amount of ses lasting a player right now as they wont be in the game long enough to keep playing.
But once many other issues are changed, yes I totally see 500ses lasting a month. Maybe even more in most cases.
-MrDDT
Odd first you havnt vermed more then me according to the "How much you spent on RV" post.
Second, you are wrong when you think Im trying to get new people to play it. Go back and READ my posts. Im telling new players NOT to play RV.
As I dont believe RV is ready for new players until they get it working better.
I didnt post the price as the price isnt set for us, because people have to contact us to set a price. Im the trader for prolly the largest trading guild in the game. I know the prices and I can tell you its a LOT less then 10k try around 5k, if you really need me to name a price.
You really need to go read through my posts, I pick the game part in lots of places, however, unlike you I know about the game and I play it all the time. I know both sides of the fence too. The points you are trying to make are not bad for RV, you are trying to base your things on those points when it has nothing to do with that.
It would be like saying the skill decay system is bad because you die to crashes all the time. That doesnt make skill decay bad it makes CRASHING WORSE!! If they fixed the crashing then the skill decay system would be great.
Or saying that combat is bad (which I believe it is but using this as a way to show in other games) because it lags so much and you cant do any special moves. Yet they say that they are fixing lag and sure enough they fix lag and now combat is great.
You dont change the combat to the fact that its laggy, you FIX THE LAG!
You are doing the samething for the verming. You dont change verm to fix the fact that there are few people playing due to crashing, you fix the crashes to get more people playing. It makes no sense to fix verm to get more people playing only to have them leave because of crashes. Then when you do fix the crashes only to change verm BACK because it would then be broke again. Thats just not good way to go about changing a game.
Ok first you posted you spent $200 on the game I spent nearly $400....
You are telling them not to play as you don't like certain areas, I am telling them not to play as I don't like certain areas...(so they fix it) I don't jump in an critique your posts on what you don't like(cause I want that fixed too) yet you jump on my saying I am a 15yr old and don't know WTF I am talking about... LOL. (cause you stand to lose a little money on your sales)
Ok half that 5k for a tent....5 K FOR A TENT MAN!!!! .... but you will never get it I know. In some twisted world you think 5k for a tent is ok... when 500 ses is supposed to last a month.(from RB's own mouth)
Big thing about it is you think a new player wants to buy verm and pay these ridiculous prices while they are fixing or even after they have fixed crashes. But one thing you don't realize I crashed all of 3 times playing RV and I played alot too.(more towoard launch than later) So crashes had absolutely nothing to do with it for me... It was the stupid prices up and down. And yeah the lack of a large community to partake in any type of activity.(like training)
Im not saying the prices are wrong. I still think 5k for a tent is too much, however, tell me what that has to do with verm? NOTHING the prices are to high for a tent because still many things are not fixed in the game. Like still goats are not able to be controlled, dung is still way high and limited on how you can get it, saltwater is only able to be bought from the vendor. On top of ALL that, yous till have the fact there is very few people in the game which will ALSO drive prices up due to the fact no one can make these things or do these things, and there is no one competing as much as they should have too.
So if Im the only tent maker, and i have no one really to help me to get the costs lower on my tents, they are going to be a lot more costly then say when there is 100 people making tents and there are 1000 people making or helping with the things that go into making a tent.
Yet you want to change something like VERM which has NOTHING to do with that factor.
I dont know where you are getting your 400$ but you said 200$ before. If you spend 400$ good for you.
I dont know why you would spend more in a system you dont believe in, but I guess you have your reasons.
500ses that RB is also saying isnt talking about everyone owning a tent either. Most people WONT own a tent, not unless they expect to pay more. That would be like saying 500ses is going to last a Guild Master 1 month. But it wont because a Guildmaster has to do many other things then a normal player.
I was being conservative and said 240 but again that was conservative I am sure I spent more, and forgot to add my alts verm in 2or so times max verm... so more arround 340+ (not being exact either I know what it adds up to I am avging as I spent more)some change. Don't care TBH I spent what I did cause I thought the game had promise and thought they would have completed it much sooner(says alot about what I thought of the game)..... but boy was I wrong...still waiting
You honestly don't think that people would have owned a tent back then? Geez. Most would have had a dung hut atleast but a tent would be next to nothing...hell they could have made one out of their old clothes sewn together and dipped in tar... not talking about a emperor sized tent here just a tent for slave or hunter to sleep in.
Reguardless though you keep sidesteping the fact that RB said they would and could keep the ses value in check and that have done nothing of the sort.
And we aren't talking about guildmasters we are talking about new players, they would and should be able to afford basic gear and shelter on 500ses a month. Especially if they were buying more ses Like I was.... from lack of playtime. That was my counter to lack of playtime like RB said it would be. I work so I can pay more, but kids that don't work and have tons of time don't have to pay and can still make it in the game.
They came nowhere near having verm and ses work in the way they said it would and that is a huge problem.
And DDT, you may want to read back and look at Kruniac's posts too. I know you like to khink I am the only one who feels this way but it is far from the case. Just because few of us post it dosen't mean their arent many who agree or feel that way.
I mean out of the 5k keys sold how many even bother to post why they left or what they want to see fixed? Not many at all like maybe 100. But if they did i can assure you you would see many saying the same thing.
Again Like I had said with the NPC's pricing. The could have used that as a guide, selling low priced versions of the items players sell to keep prices in check so they didn't get to the 10k for a tent range but did they ? NO, are they trying , NO. They just let the crap run rampant.
I totaly understand what you are saying about the population and the lack of items driving up prices, but has RB done as they said they could to balance their economy because of their mistakes? NO.
But you are steady trying to beat me up saying I don't now what I am talking about, when you aren't trying to understand what I am saying and where I am coming from with it.
I dont think most people would have OWNED their own hut OR tent. I think they would either be USING someone's they were working with/for, or RENTING one.
Anyways rent in Erring, Hoch, Cil and Hurn are open and you can rent hut for much lower then it costs to OWN one. You are acting as if these these are not in place to allow people rent stuff.
Normal people are not buying a hut or a tent. Most dont they use what is provided for them from work. Your troops are not going to buy a tent to live in, no its going to be provided for them to USE!
Im not even saying the system is perfect yet, and still you can do it.
Edit
I understand what you are saying and where you are coming from.
-MrDDT
Not even going to read the 15 posts that have been added to this thread since last time I looked. My guess is that Shane is once again stating that he thinks things in Roma Victor cost too much and take too long to make. Am I right?
Well, now getting back to the topic, RedBedlam slipped in a change to the graphics over the weekend. We still can't see the sun in the sky and there still are no shadows on the ground, but now the side of people, objects, and buildings that faces the sun is brighter than the side that does not - realistic shading which has been in other games for years, but we have not had in RV until now.
RB took it a step further though and the virtual location of the sun seems to follow the route in the sky it would during a real day in northern England. It rises in the southeast, gets to the south at noon, and moves it's way to the southwest at the end of the day. Pretty cool stuff. It will now be easier to predict what time it is. Being January in game right now, the days are short and our farmers have comlplained they have limited time where they can get out in the fields and be able to see them to water them properly.
The problem is that its just blatent laziness. Any attemps to change the prices of objects can be met with a "Nope. Dynamic economy and all that. Sorry mate."
That doesnt work when the dynamic economy is influenced by bugs and lack of features. The prices should be manually adjusted to a historical setting and left alone until the dynamic economy works properly.
FFS, at launch you couldnt get dung in the wild. You NEED that for farming (this is for all of the new players not understanding what this is about). Since you cant FIND dung, you have to BUY it. Since people are BUYing it, the prices go skyhigh. Since you cant "get" money in this game via combat, and the merchants are always filled of sellable items (ones they give money for because the merchants themselves dont have any or are low), you have to VERM.
When RB announced the VERM system, I thought it was going to be a Gold-Buyer's dream come true. A system in which they can use real life money to get ahead of everyone else. Instead of JUST that problem coming into play, we have a new problem - RB profits from it, not gold-sellers.
This isnt a player driven economy - its a bug and lack of implementation driven economy. When players cant find the things they need in the wild, things go crazy. Does RedBedlam care? No. THEY profit from this with the VERM system.
Its just... wrong.
Agreed 100%
Problem is the ones that play atm, and the only ones RB listens to, dont need to verm as they have all the time in the world to grind away making these items for an imaginary rush of players... so you may as well be doing this
while trying to explain this to them.
They think that once players do start playing they will get rich of the ridiculus prices from the items they have been making(and they don't want their profits nutered). Only problem is no player with any common sense will buy items at these prices when their value is converted to RL money(ala VERM). As the only ones that will be buying the items are players that vermed(players that don't have the time needed to waste making them themselves).
Guilds that make the items and give them to players is always an option(almost the only option), and RB should not want that. As that means noone will have to verm just get items from guildmates that have all the time in the world to make items.
What they should be doing is balancing prices out manualy (like they said they could) , so verming is worth while and anyone and everyone can do it and would want to do it because it would be worth the money invested.
It should be based arround the average player spending 15 a month on a online game playing 2 hrs a day about 4-5 days in a week. Play less you could afford to pay less play more yeah you should be paying more, but probably those that play more would be able to substitute some paying for in game working to get by. I know someone will say, "thats how it is now", No, thats how it should be but it is far from how it is now.
Try it, buy $15 in verm, should be about 5k ses. Then survive for a whole month without working for a guild or anyone(as thats why they are verming they don't want to work) without taking handouts, and see just how long it lasts you. I would guess about 3 days TOPS and thats doing hardly nothing in game each day and having no fun whats so ever... Play 2 hrs a day, and try to have fun in that alloted time without burning through the 5k ses you have for the month... and then realize RB said 2,500ses would last a month or more... yeah right.
Again his words exactly.
What are Sesterces worth?
At the current rate £1 GBP is equivalent to 500 Sesterces. A managed VERM ensures that most people should find that £5's worth of Sesterces would allow them to enjoy life to the full in Roma Victor for at least a month. By supplementing their virtual bank balance with in-game activities, players could be able to survive comfortably on £5's worth of Sesterces for perhaps as much as two or three months. Some players may even be able to continue to play beyond that period without purchasing any more Sesterces at all. And some players may wish to live in greater luxury and comfort and could happily spend over £10 a month just on enjoying the game to the full! But for most players we expect the on-going costs of playing Roma Victor to add up to significantly less than a comparable subscription-based MMORPG. In essence the monthly costs are set by you. You decide how much you pay and how much you play. All we have to do is make sure that you're getting a fair deal. If you don't feel that you are, then all you have to do is stop buying Sesterces. And of course unlike most subscription-based MMORPG's if you do stop playing for a while, your account will remain active without requiring a further regular monthly payment from you.
With the VERM in place, we'll be able to monitor and manage the economy and the exchange rate dynamically. If people ever feel that they're not getting good value from their experience then they don't even have to stop playing - they simply have to stop paying. That's not something that you'll hear many Managing Directors offering their potential customers.
-KFR
P.S. VERM and Roma Victor are registered trademarks, all rights reserved, etc. etc.
Agreed 100%
Problem is the ones that play atm, and the only ones RB listens to, dont need to verm as they have all the time in the world to grind away making these items for an imaginary rush of players... so you may as well be doing this
while trying to explain this to them.
They think that once players do start playing they will get rich of the ridiculus prices from the items they have been making(and they don't want their profits nutered). Only problem is no player with any common sense will buy items at these prices when their value is converted to RL money(ala VERM). As the only ones that will be buying the items are players that vermed(players that don't have the time needed to waste making them themselves).
Guilds that make the items and give them to players is always an option(almost the only option), and RB should not want that. As that means noone will have to verm just get items from guildmates that have all the time in the world to make items.
What they should be doing is balancing prices out manualy (like they said they could) , so verming is worth while and anyone and everyone can do it and would want to do it because it would be worth the money invested.
It should be based arround the average player spending 15 a month on a online game playing 2 hrs a day about 4-5 days in a week. Play less you could afford to pay less play more yeah you should be paying more, but probably those that play more would be able to substitute some paying for in game working to get by. I know someone will say, "thats how it is now", No, thats how it should be but it is far from how it is now.
Try it, buy $15 in verm, should be about 5k ses. Then survive for a whole month without working for a guild or anyone(as thats why they are verming they don't want to work) without taking handouts, and see just how long it lasts you. I would guess about 3 days TOPS and thats doing hardly nothing in game each day and having no fun whats so ever... Play 2 hrs a day, and try to have fun in that alloted time without burning through the 5k ses you have for the month... and then realize RB said 2,500ses would last a month or more... yeah right.
Again his words exactly.
What are Sesterces worth?
At the current rate £1 GBP is equivalent to 500 Sesterces. A managed VERM ensures that most people should find that £5's worth of Sesterces would allow them to enjoy life to the full in Roma Victor for at least a month. By supplementing their virtual bank balance with in-game activities, players could be able to survive comfortably on £5's worth of Sesterces for perhaps as much as two or three months. Some players may even be able to continue to play beyond that period without purchasing any more Sesterces at all. And some players may wish to live in greater luxury and comfort and could happily spend over £10 a month just on enjoying the game to the full! But for most players we expect the on-going costs of playing Roma Victor to add up to significantly less than a comparable subscription-based MMORPG. In essence the monthly costs are set by you. You decide how much you pay and how much you play. All we have to do is make sure that you're getting a fair deal. If you don't feel that you are, then all you have to do is stop buying Sesterces. And of course unlike most subscription-based MMORPG's if you do stop playing for a while, your account will remain active without requiring a further regular monthly payment from you.
With the VERM in place, we'll be able to monitor and manage the economy and the exchange rate dynamically. If people ever feel that they're not getting good value from their experience then they don't even have to stop playing - they simply have to stop paying. That's not something that you'll hear many Managing Directors offering their potential customers.
-KFR
P.S. VERM and Roma Victor are registered trademarks, all rights reserved, etc. etc.
It shows that you dont play at all, and if you do, you seem to be blind...
http://www.freewebs.com/tribunelucii/PriceList.html
Thats a link to my tribes page, where we cut down prices a while back becuase of all the problems you just talked about... Yes it was like that, if you vermed 5k it would not last you a week, but since we have put in our price list, we have cut that down Drasticly, and we plan to do even more as the time comes.
If the Devs wont do it with the game economy, no biggie we the players will do it ourselves, I dont know anyone that has bought anything form a merchant prolly for about a year now, as you can buy it cheaper from other people, and if you buy from the Lucii well its even better...
Not only that, but we also at times offer jobs which people can do to make a bit of ses, Now considering the prices on our price list, we do not pay what some people were paying for the same type of work, we had to cut down those prices as well... Our main goal as a guild is not only to grow but also be known for doing one of the greatest things for RV, and that is making the prices fair so that people can live off of 5k a month about.
Also, it seems you forget to keep in mind, i understand you are complaining alittle bit for the fact that some people do not have too much time to play, but then again, just because they do not have alot of time to play, does that mean that they should beable to just log in and go out killing people and do whatever else without having to worry about doing alittle bit of work? I dont know about you but IRL if you dont work you cant live, unless you want to live outside like a bum. So why would anything be different in a sandbox game, which is trying to stay somewhat realistic? It wouldn't be therefor you will have to dedicate perhaps one of those days that you have that little bit of time to log in, into working to make some money or perhaps a barter deal for some good/items. And the next time you long in you should be all ready to do what you want. Please keep in mind this is not a fast action game like WOW/UO/Eve, nor is it fantasy.
Im not here to argue nor flame. I am just stating the above ^^ because you are accusing the game of something right now which has been taken care of by the players themselves, so if you want an argument about something find something else, Or just continue to argue just the fact that RB pretty much makes you spend ses in many other ways now at pretty large amounts, just to get more vermers.
[URL="https://forums.darkfallonline.com/image.php?u=45765&type=sigpic&dateline=1276129943[/URL]
"Vox Populi, Vox Deorum"
I have a hard time believing that someone thinks they can spend 5k in 3 days. I mean I wonder what they are doing to have to spend that much?
-MrDDT
Grinding Longsword on pells..
Ya but he is saying he spends 5k in 3 days and plays 2 hours a day. I dont think you can go through 1 LS in 3 days (or 6 hours) even if you did that.
-MrDDT
As always I am talking about the game from a NEW PLAYER perspective... big surprise you didn't catch that. But yeah you can burn through some equipment quite fast grinding...I mean training.
You are set up and have a guild already so yeah you can save some money...now, but a new player has to get everything he needs, has to find where to get everythig he needs, and if they try to participate in any combat at all...has to replace parts of the gear he bought each time...
And I will mention it again, the NPC's are where most will likely turn for gear as that is what most do in MMOG's for starter gear... And if they make that mistake they will be out alot of cash fast and have a P!$$ poor impression of the game. (and RB needs to address that)
Not everyone has hours to float arround the forum trying to learn about the game or hours to try to find where the hell these merchants are located, especially when their is no map and it is likely that the player selling is not even on .
I applaud Lucii for those prices, wish everyone was as sensable when it comes to that, but they are not. But last time I checked the in the new player areas I saw no (player) merchants selling for those prices in the area. Not like they are marked clearly anyways but thats another problem this game has. Maybe they were tucked away somewhere and I just missed them...
And no DDT I don't spend 1ses anymore(even when I was playing) don't even verm anymore RB's stupid prices broke me of that, their were no good deals and all their was to do was train anyways... But yeah when I was new to the game I made a few of those mistakes just like any new player would(that wasn't in the beta) and was learning the game. Again we are talking about human beings here, not kids with games hardwired into their veins... we have jobs and familys and just want to relax and have a bit of fun we we have a spare moment. Not study RV 101, or spend hours wandering arround(wasting that time) trying to get a fair deal.
Yes I guess the same could be said in any game. If the new people are no smart enough to look around for other ways then the NPCs to buy items then I dont feel sorry for them.
You act like they have to go thru all this trouble or something to find it. When they could find it many ways, 1 walking around and looking at prices (any normal person would do this), 2 ask someone in game where to buy some stuff or who to buy from, 3 look on the forums.
Sounds pretty normal to me. You act as if these new people are going to be buying a tent, and a seg and a longsword. I mean if they are doing that in RV what are going doing in other games? I look at other games where the high end items cost 100$ or REAL money, and are worth MILLIONS and sometimes even BILLIONS of in game gold. Do you expect a newb to run out and think they can get these top end items without putting ANY time into the game? Or any extra money into the game?
You act as if I didnt see what you were saying and what it comes down to is still what you are saying makes no sense.
New players dont expect to have all this extra high priced stuff. You say that most new players will buy STARTER gear from the NPC in most MMO's? I have to disagree, first off its not even like that in RV, I can name 15 MMOs that dont do that.
MOST starter gear is either started with (hence the term starter gear) or given to them through training quests. Just like in RV.
-MrDDT
You seem to want to overlook the fact that their is noone arround to ask LOL. That their are no shops set up so you can easily locate and buy gear from.
And no they may not be buying a seg and a longsword but they should be able to buy a tent... that is just stupid. New players have nowhere ...nowhere to put crap. Tent should be the minimal structure for new players to store stuff.
You talk of F2P asian MMO's with a online store to buy crap... those games suck 9 out of 10 times... Kinda like this is turning out. But no this game was supposed to suplement a monthly fee for a fee scaleable to the time you put into it. Not pay to buy a sword or pay to buy armor. But that is exactly what it has turned into for those that don't have all the time in the world.
And in any GOOD MMO, yes you can buy your starter gear off of NPC's. From the description you gave of the game's you play all I can say is you need to raise the bar to the QL of games you play bro...
If you had seen what I was saying you would not, I say again NOT, be talking about "highpriced items" at all... You would only be talking about basic gear for new players...
Oh, and that starter gear you start with for the quests(tasks) in RV... you mean the QL3 shoes, the QL 4 spear, the QL 4 saw and QL 5 knife? LOL That is broken in about 5 seconds of use... LOL
Come on bro get real here. New players need to atleast get some use out of their items.
It is quite clear this game is for those that have tons of money to throw away, or players that have tons of time to put into it. Everyone in between (normal people) are SOL. That is why only about 100(at max) of the 5k keys they sold stuck arround. And thats just cold facts. No matter how much you try to twist stuff to sound good or make me sound bad you can't change that solid fact. And neither can RB apparently, even with all their updates and fixes.
First off there ARE shops set up in Corst and Erring.
Second why do you feel that tents are going to be the first thing a new player should get? They already have a protected site to store stuff in.
You look at other games and having your own building is the END game not for the newbs.
I dont know where you are getting your MMO exp from but please play a few more games use google a bit and then get back to us.
You keep thinking that people are NOT playing due to this econ and verm problem you are saying. People are NOT playing because the game is broke and the one way its WORKING is the way you are trying to say its broke.
You can bring up lag, fps issues, crashing, balance of skills, items and sides, hell there are tons of things like poor AI. But no you trying to fight the ONE thing RV is doing good in. Thats the ECON model.
Those noob items you are talking about is the samething that other games start you out with. You act as if this is totally not normal. Its normal to have crap items as a noob, most people call them NOOBIE items and wouldnt ever buy one after they are noob. Its just the way it works. You know why? If these items were so great people would just make noobs over and over and over again. Hell people already were doing it to the boots and tunic/kilt.
Not only that your QL's are wrong on the items you are talking about, again showing your lack of real data and just trying to mutter up the info. Noobies get higher QL on some items that you listed.
Noob gear isnt meant to be used for a long time its meant for TRAINING and getting the newbs to understand what they can do and how fast they wear out. So they have an idea of what to look for when buying other items to measure worth.
I didnt just list F2P games btw, Im talking about a lot of MMO's so you might need to narrow down what you are talking about.
Also you say they suck yet its one of the BEST model of a game being popular out there. (WOW isnt doing it but add up all the F2P vs all the P2P and you will see that F2P have more people buying and making more money then the P2P)
I dont even think you have played a F2P MMO really because I dont think you understand how they work. You seem to think that these F2P games are allowing people to buy items in game that everyone uses. Nope thats not the case at all, they offer items you CANT get in game unless you trade INGAME money for these items through a player.
-MrDDT
Their may be a few player merchants standing arround but shops? Nope.
A site that may vanish at any given time lol. They should have a place , like a tent, to store stuff without it just vanishing on them and leaving their stuff up for grabs...That they payed RL money for not just time.
I have played nearly every (good), MMO since Ultima came out my friend. And I do not consider F2P games good period. I have played a few but saw no reason to give them my hard earned cash at all. Only one that came close was RV... but the prices didn't justify me continuing to pay and I don't have enough time to make a job of it in game...
You keep thinking that it is just the problems you mentioned, while I agree they are a large part of it, but you seem to think that the economy has absolutely nothing to do with it and my friend you are wrong. Just because you don't think so dosen't mean you can say noone else does. And I have never said EVERYONE FEELS THE SAME AS ME, but I have said many do. For you to deny that is well... you figure it out.
Excuse me for being off by a few Ql on items I havent seen in over a year... LOL. I do remember when I was learning to craft ,as I though I might give it a go in this game, and I got the saw to gather the logs for the workbench I think. I made one or two cuts and bam, the saw was gone LOL I was WTF??? Then I went to the NPC merchant as their were no player merchants at the time, and saw the INSANE prices realized they they would break nearly as quickly and said screw crafting. Now do you think I am the only person that saw that and felt that way on release? Absolutely not, I saw many posts saying the same thing about the prices and saw the same handfull of players telling them to go play WoW or some other similar comments. Looks as though they did...
I cant help that you dont think any F2P games are good, you dont even list reasons why.
I hate when people say "many" when what they should say is a small % of the pop that dont play. Because thats what you are talking here. A VERY small % of the people that are not playing are not playing because of this reason you list (which most of it is being or has been fixed).
So you are fighting over a small %, instead of talking about the real reasons. Fact of the matter is that a small % are going to leave for the other reason too, if you change it for your idea. So which way is better?
You act as if buying a saw is something a newb would do in other games, normally those are ADVANCED crafting and or after you have been playing for a while. Just think of it like buying a high lvl item. You dont start the game and buy a lvl 50 item for your lvl 1 noob.
You talk about a site that can vanish at anytime? Well I guess again you still dont know what this game is about or how it works. Sites dont vanish at anytime they ALWAYS decay at daychange and unless its a 2/2 QL site it wont decay on the first daychange.
-MrDDT
Well for one the F2P games all look the same. They are all grind grind grind then PVP, and you don't stand a chance unless you bought uber items with RL cash. They are all basically the same game with a different look, no real differences except the name and char models. You played one you played them all, so why waste time trying them all out, after the first 3 or 4 you get the gist of it. I am sure you will try to say well some have RVR and some have this and that , that is not a real difference. Anyone can slap a copy of a game down change the models and allow race vs race or relm vs relm.
Yeah all games have some grinding, even UO did, but atleast most the good games have taken steps to seporate themselves from the crowd. They aren't just looking to make a quick buck and fade away, as they are most still hanging on, much like UO is. Now I don't like WoW or EQ anymore, I played them out, but they were interesting enough when they came out and brought something new to the table. They had an easy to use UI and decent graphics good story lines and they were easy and fun to play.(for a while atleast) And thats more than can be said for RV any day of the week period. Same goes for the F2P games. If they were worth a damn they wouldn't be F2P in the first place you can rest assured they would have had a monthly fee atleast for a while. Just look at RF online. There is a classic example of a F2P game. They thought they had a good game thought they could charge a monthly fee(and tried) but when everyone realized it was a crappy copy of older games with minor changes, little fun and hours of grinding they had to go F2P to maintain a player base.
Way off topic, but there since you asked. That is just my opinion on the experiances I have had with F2P, go ahead tell me my opinion is wrong LOL. Since you know what it should be....
How do you know it is a small %? Did they all stop by and say hey DDT I am leaving cause of X reasons? No. I would say about 4,800 just left without a word. But for some reason you can say that it was a small ammount of them felt this way about verm and pricing. LOL I would wager that yeah the majority left once they logged in and saw the 1990's look to the game coupled with the fact that it was incomplete and barren and half of them didn't even bother to look at prices or anything else. But out of the ones that did last that long quite a few posted they thought the prices were high and that VERM sucked.
So you say buying a saw is ADVANCED crafting and noobs would not be buying a saw.........yet for some reason it was part of RV's starter Quests LMAO dude you are something else. Sounded good tho.
And on the site dissapearing yeah they last for about a day or two, but figure most players start out with sites only at QL 2/2 and not everyone can log every single day just to pick up their stuff and create a new site.... But not only that what about those that don't want to do construction? Are they not supposed to have anywhere to put their stuff? Are they forced to skill up a worthless skill(to them) other than to use for storage? Apparently so. Cause they would have to pay out the nose otherwise to buy a tent.... A simple tent that nearly anyone could have made for themselves. Especially in Roman times. You don't honestly think that the Romans were lazy idiots like todays generation do you? Like they would sit arround "Ohh I am poor and can't figure out how to make a covered area to sleep in, so I have to sleep in the open with rain pouring on me..." Geez man give them some credit.
RB should have it so anyone could make a tent just buy a decent sized peice of cloth tar it, get some poles then run some twine between the poles and stake it off. Throw the tar covered cloth over it and let it dry and voilla! a tent that would last atleast a few weeks if you took care of it. Simple fix for new player storage. Then they could leave the current tent for groups as thats what the price suggests anyways.
Have you never spent any time in the wilderness? You would be surprised at what people , even the lazy idiots of today, can come up with when they need to. But you act like they would need a fortune to survive. Hell don't even need money just use nature, some branches and straw would provide atleast some protection from the elements.
RV's hunters could sure use a feature like that, throw up a simple tent or make one from whats arround them to log out in or live in on their hunting trips.
Not everything should have to cost a fortune,even the poor managed to get by and thats the main point.
Ya, its not like you are a slave or anything, I guess you should have all this stuff as a slave huh?
Anyways Im done talking to you.
-MrDDT
No apparently shane doesn't want to actually have to put effort into getting a strong character going....oh well and I agree DDT don't waste anymore time on Shane
, you made some good arguements DDT..
Great even vep is agreeing with me now. I think I must have turned fanboi.
-MrDDT
Yup lol, two peas in a pod...called RV. ;PGreat even vep is agreeing with me now. I think I must have turned fanboi.
IMO tho, if you are verming you shouldn't be considered a slave for long. It should be those that don't that would have that label be harder to break. (through work in game) Another reason to verm.(if it was worth while that is, with better prices all arround NPC's included)
And Vep, I am complaining about prices not skill gains... You have to grind skills in any game. My only complaint about that is as it has always been, lack of players to train with, need a NPC sparing partner with limited gains using them per day. (just to fill the gaps when noone is on and all you want to do is train a bit.)
But yeah I know the game world as we know it would collapse in upon itself and the economy would wither and dry up over night as the remaining 10 players eyes bleed out on their keyboards... LOL.
If the game is that fragile it has more problems than any of us realized before. (which may be the case)
Yup lol, two peas in a pod...called RV. ;PGreat even vep is agreeing with me now. I think I must have turned fanboi.
IMO tho, if you are verming you shouldn't be considered a slave for long. It should be those that don't that would have that label be harder to break. (through work in game) Another reason to verm.(if it was worth while that is, with better prices all arround NPC's included)
And Vep, I am complaining about prices not skill gains... You have to grind skills in any game. My only complaint about that is as it has always been, lack of players to train with, need a NPC sparing partner with limited gains using them per day. (just to fill the gaps when noone is on and all you want to do is train a bit.)
But yeah I know the game world as we know it would collapse in upon itself and the economy would wither and dry up over night as the remaining 10 players eyes bleed out on their keyboards... LOL.
If the game is that fragile it has more problems than any of us realized before. (which may be the case)
Thanks Shane for not flaming in that response and showing actual game concerns. As for training if you are going Roman there are guilds that would be happy to take you as a member and help you train all the skills you want. I can speak for what Corstopitum the starting city will become after we all spread out when our GH's are built, but each guild I know for sure will still have a presence there as we will need recruits. So I think it's safe to say there will always be people in the arena to train. If you plan on flying solo it will be harder at time to find training partners, if you join a guild it will be no problem at all.
Prices for equipment is not that bad on the roman side i know if you join a guild like the 18th legio we supply our men with thier equipment they don't pay any out of pocket unless they can't wait the day or two it will take to make a more extravagant item like armor. Not sure about the freeman side but maybe DDT can cover that area.
Thanks
I think most freemen are like TdB. We just dont hand out weapons and armor to anyone. Also it takes a lot to get into TdB, it takes time to make sure you will mesh with what TdB is.
After you are in TdB we pretty much give out anything they need. All TdB members help with other things though, so I dont know how well this guy would fit if all he wants to do is be like killer, running around doing raids on corst or something isnt what TdB wants, we wan someone that is a team player.
If we need ore, we expect people to help getting ore, if ore isnt your thing help in other ways, like getting firewood and making a pile, or help by adding items to a hut.
From what Ive gathered this guy believes that a guild is just going to give him stuff without him doing anything more then running around killing people. I think what he fails to understand is that joining a guild does 2 things, 1) brings people together to have fun and become close, 2) allows more skills, items and projects to get done with a team effort.
By just saying "I log in 2 hours a day and I want to go kill stuff, or only care about my skills" shows that someone like that isnt going to do well in TdB as we want members to think about the guild as a whole and not themselves.
So basic answer to your question is, I would say that TdB does hand out stuff, however, its not free really, it takes as much work to do it yourself as it would for a TdB member to get it free. Only diff is instead of working in many different skills like you would to do it on your own, you can work in a few skills that you like to do.
-MrDDT
Yup lol, two peas in a pod...called RV. ;PGreat even vep is agreeing with me now. I think I must have turned fanboi.
IMO tho, if you are verming you shouldn't be considered a slave for long. It should be those that don't that would have that label be harder to break. (through work in game) Another reason to verm.(if it was worth while that is, with better prices all arround NPC's included)
And Vep, I am complaining about prices not skill gains... You have to grind skills in any game. My only complaint about that is as it has always been, lack of players to train with, need a NPC sparing partner with limited gains using them per day. (just to fill the gaps when noone is on and all you want to do is train a bit.)
But yeah I know the game world as we know it would collapse in upon itself and the economy would wither and dry up over night as the remaining 10 players eyes bleed out on their keyboards... LOL.
If the game is that fragile it has more problems than any of us realized before. (which may be the case)
Thanks Shane for not flaming in that response and showing actual game concerns. As for training if you are going Roman there are guilds that would be happy to take you as a member and help you train all the skills you want. I can speak for what Corstopitum the starting city will become after we all spread out when our GH's are built, but each guild I know for sure will still have a presence there as we will need recruits. So I think it's safe to say there will always be people in the arena to train. If you plan on flying solo it will be harder at time to find training partners, if you join a guild it will be no problem at all.
Prices for equipment is not that bad on the roman side i know if you join a guild like the 18th legio we supply our men with thier equipment they don't pay any out of pocket unless they can't wait the day or two it will take to make a more extravagant item like armor. Not sure about the freeman side but maybe DDT can cover that area.
Thanks
LOL not called flaming it's called agreeing.
And I did post concerns about the game as you tried to address them in your post you must have known that.
Have a guild tho don't need one to join. But not playing atm for reasons I stated many times now.
Never asked for handouts as I was a paying member of the community I should not have to look for handouts too bad this game is made so that that is your only option, as I will not.