Aaaaahh..The fanboi'ism hurts my eyes. And for the last bloody time. This aint, and will never be an mmo. Why its listed at mmorpg.com is beyond me . Would make more sense to list it at, let me see, ANY other gaming site ala ign, pcgamer.com or whatsit. Cause I go to mmorpg to find news about mmos, and I go to the other sites to find news about any other games which aint mmo's.
Critical thinking isn't the mmorpg.com's staff strong suit I think. Massive in the MMO community means many players in one world (server). Hellgate doesn't even come close. If I was the owner if this site I would fire myself.
Aaaaahh..The fanboi'ism hurts my eyes. And for the last bloody time. This aint, and will never be an mmo. Why its listed at mmorpg.com is beyond me . Would make more sense to list it at, let me see, ANY other gaming site ala ign, pcgamer.com or whatsit. Cause I go to mmorpg to find news about mmos, and I go to the other sites to find news about any other games which aint mmo's.
Critical thinking isn't the mmorpg.com's staff strong suit I think. Massive in the MMO community means many players in one world (server). Hellgate doesn't even come close. If I was the owner if this site I would fire myself.
15,000 online on EU server at the same time not massive enough for ya?
... and I can chat/group/PvP/raid/trade/guild with any of them. WTF u talking about man?
It's as massive as EvE online which is, in essence, a series of interconnected single-instances. I can see It is the "world-persistence" which bothers you. But GW has none as well (and WoW too, to be really honest...) and it is listed here and it is an MMORPG, so... I really haven't the foggiest what are you on.
Aaaaahh..The fanboi'ism hurts my eyes. And for the last bloody time. This aint, and will never be an mmo. Why its listed at mmorpg.com is beyond me . Would make more sense to list it at, let me see, ANY other gaming site ala ign, pcgamer.com or whatsit. Cause I go to mmorpg to find news about mmos, and I go to the other sites to find news about any other games which aint mmo's.
Critical thinking isn't the mmorpg.com's staff strong suit I think. Massive in the MMO community means many players in one world (server). Hellgate doesn't even come close. If I was the owner if this site I would fire myself.
15,000 online on EU server at the same time not massive enough for ya?
... and I can chat/group/PvP/raid/trade/guild with any of them. WTF u talking about man?
It's as massive as EvE online which is, in essence, a series of interconnected single-instances. I can see It is the "world-persistence" which bothers you. But GW has none as well (and WoW too, to be really honest...) and it is listed here and it is an MMORPG, so... I really haven't the foggiest what are you on.
Right. If HGL is an mmo, CS/D2 is it too. As it also supports 1000's of players on seperate servers. Seriously, google for 'what is an mmo' or something and get a clue please. Actually the longest I can strech the mmo thing, is that HGL have some mmo elements to it. HGL is an actionrpg with online multiplayer. Even the devs say it aint an mmo.
Right. If HGL is an mmo, CS/D2 is it too. As it also supports 1000's of players on seperate servers. Seriously, google for 'what is an mmo' or something and get a clue please. Actually the longest I can strech the mmo thing, is that HGL have some mmo elements to it. HGL is an actionrpg with online multiplayer. Even the devs say it aint an mmo.
It is Massively Multiplayer Online RPG. This subject was old 3 years ago... Let us instead invent some new sub-genres... like:
Instanced MMORPG (GW, HG: L, CoH/V)
Persistent World MMORPG (DAoC, UO, EvE online)
Semi-instanced MMORPG (WoW, EQ2)
They're all MMORPGs... The genre has grown and evolved. No need to fight over what is true blue or whatever. No one in his right mind would yell Biohazard is not a "real" FPS because it has some RPG (gasp) elements....
/edit
imho character persistence and persistent ability growth are what defines a mmorpg. Therefore I do state with full impunity that BF2 could be considered a borderline MMORPG while Quake Wars, for example, could not (to clarify: even if you do get persistent achievement awards there for your character they do not impact game mechanics... they're there for bragging rights exclusively) .
Nope. It lacks the massive content. As I understand you cant be 1000's of players on the same playfield. More like 50 or so. Second the whole game is zoned. Third, there is no persistent world where 1000's of players can play together, simultanously. And last, there is a singleplayer part, an mmorpg no-no.
Allthough AoC want to break the mold a little bit with the sp part. But the big difference is that when the sp part is over, you move on to a big, PERSISTENT world which you share with 1000's of other players, at the same bloody time, in the same instance even. And if you want a subgenre for this game, its 'Mulitplayer Online Role Playing Game', or morpg for short.
Nope. It lacks the massive content. As I understand you cant be 1000's of players on the same playfield. More like 50 or so. Second the whole game is zoned. Third, there is no persistent world where 1000's of players can play together, simultanously. And last, there is a singleplayer part, an mmorpg no-no. Allthough AoC want to break the mold a little bit with the sp part. But the big difference is that when the sp part is over, you move on to a big, PERSISTENT world which you share with 1000's of other players, at the same bloody time, in the same instance even. And if you want a subgenre for this game, its 'Mulitplayer Online Role Playing Game', or morpg for short.
Nope, the only "true blue" MMORPG by your definition would be DAoC... maybe... All the other mainstream MMORPGs use various tricks to create an illusion of a large peristent world. Try to stuff 1000 players in one zone (a soft border instance really) in WoW or a star-system in EVE... I can't see and really interact with all the other players in a single zone, not to mention the whole server, in these games.
I really don't see how thats different from GW or HGL instancing - if I want to interact with someone I can. If i don't then I don't really care if it's because he's behind a cunningly placed wall or "star portal" that hides the actual limit of the actual instance which is there, even in most "open" mmorpgs.
Nope. It lacks the massive content. As I understand you cant be 1000's of players on the same playfield. More like 50 or so.
Realistically, at about 200 players in the same sphere of awareness, there isn't a game out there that doesn't melt down into lag hell.
I have participated in 200 ship battles in Eve, and you are talking 2-3 minutes from when you activate a gun, til it starts firing. Unplayable.... Most times the "system" (or shard if you want to use a word that CCP hates) crashes and everyone's knocked out for 20 minutes.
Same for swg. Anyone remember the tusken invasions pre CU. ~200 players and roughly 1.5 minutes of server lag. Truly massive battles in today's world are impossible. There aren't servers powerful enough to keep up with that many bot relationships and do all the hit calculations available at a price that a $14.99 subscription would pay for. The servers that can do it are called "mainframes" and they cost around $150-200k a year per cpu, not to mention the specialized staff you'd need to run one, and the specialized programmers you'd need to build it.
Well, you can. It will be laggy as hell though. And I've seen zones crash cause the number of players in it exseeds(sp?) what the devs planned could be in a single playfield(endgame raids on open zones, one example being AO's tarasque or beast raids). You cant do that in HGL. Even the safe zones are limited to 50 I think it was.
Anyway, last post for me. Im a purist when it comes to game genres. Always been, and always will be. Oh, and Viza. War kinda promise massive pvp battles. Curious to see if they can pull it off though.
Nope. It lacks the massive content. As I understand you cant be 1000's of players on the same playfield. More like 50 or so.
Realistically, at about 200 players in the same sphere of awareness, there isn't a game out there that doesn't melt down into lag hell.
I have participated in 200 ship battles in Eve, and you are talking 2-3 minutes from when you activate a gun, til it starts firing. Unplayable.... Most times the "system" (or shard if you want to use a word that CCP hates) crashes and everyone's knocked out for 20 minutes.
Same for swg. Anyone remember the tusken invasions pre CU. ~200 players and roughly 1.5 minutes of server lag. Truly massive battles in today's world are impossible. There aren't servers powerful enough to keep up with that many bot relationships and do all the hit calculations available at a price that a $14.99 subscription would pay for. The servers that can do it are called "mainframes" and they cost around $150-200k a year per cpu, not to mention the specialized staff you'd need to run one, and the specialized programmers you'd need to build it.
-viz
Planetside's been doing it for >4 years now. The only record I know of is just barely over 1000 in one battle.
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
Planetside can have 450 (or however many) on a map, but the computer only relays you the info if they are in your sphere of awereness. I.E. if you can see, hear or detect them on your radar.
Planetside maps are enormous. Even if you were all attacking the same city, the walls and trees prevernt you seeing allthe other players. Until you went down the basement, that's where the lag was.
Comments
Critical thinking isn't the mmorpg.com's staff strong suit I think. Massive in the MMO community means many players in one world (server). Hellgate doesn't even come close. If I was the owner if this site I would fire myself.
Critical thinking isn't the mmorpg.com's staff strong suit I think. Massive in the MMO community means many players in one world (server). Hellgate doesn't even come close. If I was the owner if this site I would fire myself.
15,000 online on EU server at the same time not massive enough for ya?
... and I can chat/group/PvP/raid/trade/guild with any of them. WTF u talking about man?
It's as massive as EvE online which is, in essence, a series of interconnected single-instances. I can see It is the "world-persistence" which bothers you. But GW has none as well (and WoW too, to be really honest...) and it is listed here and it is an MMORPG, so... I really haven't the foggiest what are you on.
Critical thinking isn't the mmorpg.com's staff strong suit I think. Massive in the MMO community means many players in one world (server). Hellgate doesn't even come close. If I was the owner if this site I would fire myself.
15,000 online on EU server at the same time not massive enough for ya?
... and I can chat/group/PvP/raid/trade/guild with any of them. WTF u talking about man?
It's as massive as EvE online which is, in essence, a series of interconnected single-instances. I can see It is the "world-persistence" which bothers you. But GW has none as well (and WoW too, to be really honest...) and it is listed here and it is an MMORPG, so... I really haven't the foggiest what are you on.
Right. If HGL is an mmo, CS/D2 is it too. As it also supports 1000's of players on seperate servers. Seriously, google for 'what is an mmo' or something and get a clue please. Actually the longest I can strech the mmo thing, is that HGL have some mmo elements to it. HGL is an actionrpg with online multiplayer. Even the devs say it aint an mmo.
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Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
It is Massively Multiplayer Online RPG. This subject was old 3 years ago... Let us instead invent some new sub-genres... like:
Instanced MMORPG (GW, HG: L, CoH/V)
Persistent World MMORPG (DAoC, UO, EvE online)
Semi-instanced MMORPG (WoW, EQ2)
They're all MMORPGs... The genre has grown and evolved. No need to fight over what is true blue or whatever. No one in his right mind would yell Biohazard is not a "real" FPS because it has some RPG (gasp) elements....
/edit
imho character persistence and persistent ability growth are what defines a mmorpg. Therefore I do state with full impunity that BF2 could be considered a borderline MMORPG while Quake Wars, for example, could not (to clarify: even if you do get persistent achievement awards there for your character they do not impact game mechanics... they're there for bragging rights exclusively) .
Nope. It lacks the massive content. As I understand you cant be 1000's of players on the same playfield. More like 50 or so. Second the whole game is zoned. Third, there is no persistent world where 1000's of players can play together, simultanously. And last, there is a singleplayer part, an mmorpg no-no.
Allthough AoC want to break the mold a little bit with the sp part. But the big difference is that when the sp part is over, you move on to a big, PERSISTENT world which you share with 1000's of other players, at the same bloody time, in the same instance even. And if you want a subgenre for this game, its 'Mulitplayer Online Role Playing Game', or morpg for short.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
I'm glad it has a section in this forum. I want to discuss it, and the game appeals directly to the audience who use these boards.
I've hunted around for boards to discuss this game, I've been a member of the Flagship forums for years. This is the best one. The one I like most.
Nope, the only "true blue" MMORPG by your definition would be DAoC... maybe... All the other mainstream MMORPGs use various tricks to create an illusion of a large peristent world. Try to stuff 1000 players in one zone (a soft border instance really) in WoW or a star-system in EVE... I can't see and really interact with all the other players in a single zone, not to mention the whole server, in these games.
I really don't see how thats different from GW or HGL instancing - if I want to interact with someone I can. If i don't then I don't really care if it's because he's behind a cunningly placed wall or "star portal" that hides the actual limit of the actual instance which is there, even in most "open" mmorpgs.
I have participated in 200 ship battles in Eve, and you are talking 2-3 minutes from when you activate a gun, til it starts firing. Unplayable.... Most times the "system" (or shard if you want to use a word that CCP hates) crashes and everyone's knocked out for 20 minutes.
Same for swg. Anyone remember the tusken invasions pre CU. ~200 players and roughly 1.5 minutes of server lag. Truly massive battles in today's world are impossible. There aren't servers powerful enough to keep up with that many bot relationships and do all the hit calculations available at a price that a $14.99 subscription would pay for. The servers that can do it are called "mainframes" and they cost around $150-200k a year per cpu, not to mention the specialized staff you'd need to run one, and the specialized programmers you'd need to build it.
-viz
Well, you can. It will be laggy as hell though. And I've seen zones crash cause the number of players in it exseeds(sp?) what the devs planned could be in a single playfield(endgame raids on open zones, one example being AO's tarasque or beast raids). You cant do that in HGL. Even the safe zones are limited to 50 I think it was.
Anyway, last post for me. Im a purist when it comes to game genres. Always been, and always will be. Oh, and Viza. War kinda promise massive pvp battles. Curious to see if they can pull it off though.
---
Grammar nazi's. This one is for you.
I have participated in 200 ship battles in Eve, and you are talking 2-3 minutes from when you activate a gun, til it starts firing. Unplayable.... Most times the "system" (or shard if you want to use a word that CCP hates) crashes and everyone's knocked out for 20 minutes.
Same for swg. Anyone remember the tusken invasions pre CU. ~200 players and roughly 1.5 minutes of server lag. Truly massive battles in today's world are impossible. There aren't servers powerful enough to keep up with that many bot relationships and do all the hit calculations available at a price that a $14.99 subscription would pay for. The servers that can do it are called "mainframes" and they cost around $150-200k a year per cpu, not to mention the specialized staff you'd need to run one, and the specialized programmers you'd need to build it.
-viz
Planetside's been doing it for >4 years now. The only record I know of is just barely over 1000 in one battle.
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
Planetside metls into lag hell at 200.
Basement fights anyone?
Planetside can have 450 (or however many) on a map, but the computer only relays you the info if they are in your sphere of awereness. I.E. if you can see, hear or detect them on your radar.
Planetside maps are enormous. Even if you were all attacking the same city, the walls and trees prevernt you seeing allthe other players. Until you went down the basement, that's where the lag was.