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Is it true about the static siege weapons?
Grunties
Member Posts: 859
I've seen the videos of the siege footage that they showed the press, and was pretty impressed when I read that the siege equipment was built by players and placed during the attack, so there would be more to the pvp battles than simply pitting avatars against avatars. And the defenders could also try to destroy that siege equipment for defense.
But I also saw another thread a little while back talking about siege weapons that raised an eyebrow. Some people were saying that the siege weapons are all located at preset locations on each battle map and that once built, cannot be moved in any way. That was just bullshit, right?
I really hope it is, because it seems like it could take a lot of the tactics and realism out of the siege. Every siege on the same keep will look the same, and it will be more like the players are kicking off a scripted siege attack than actually 'building' the siege weapons and aiming them.
Another concern is that, if siege weapons always spawn at the same locations on the map, whats to stop a defender from simply learning what the spots are and camping them to prevent attackers from being able to build them and thus break down the walls?
Of course maybe it was just a dumb rumor and you CAN actually place siege weapons. Can anyone confirm this one way or another?
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
Comments
First of all, it is not a rumor, it is verifiable fact that siege weapon locations are limited. However, the way the developers originally phrased it suggests that its not as bad as it may initially seem.
First of all, they have to have some limits, otherwise both sieging and defending players are bound to find exploits. For instance, in the real world, one would not be placing trebuchets affixed to the side of a cliff, all you'd end up with is a crew of angry engineers and busted equipment. However, a player may find that by doing so, his army can still use them to hit the city walls, but the defenders can't reach the things to destroy them. Secondly, I have been led to believe that there is a great deal of choice remaining in siege weaponry location, and that they are simply limited to a fairly wide region around the keep. IE, plenty of options for the tactically minded.
Final note, the above is not fact, but simply an interpretation. We can hope its true, but they have yet to expand upon their initial comments enough to confirm or deny it.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
I agree with Aelfinn, everything that has been mentioned (few extras in different siege presentation videos), leads me to have the same feeling. Especially in confunction with "Tarib's Siege interview" > Good Read > http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/146323
Below are some pic's with which I've crudely drawn over to help get an idea.
This was a "mock up" of a BattleKeep, I believe you have some control, within a "grid" area where you can tactically place "Towers" (in the last siege video you can see in 'white' the name towers) presumably targets for objectives. Also the building inside the keep give benefits for different classes - not totally confirmed.
I'm sure its previously been said before, that the defenders have a tactical advantage for siege weapons from 'within' the Keep with regards to range area.
Above for reference.
basically, siege weapons are crafted/made/maintained by the player, they are also carried around in their inventory and spawned that way.
Its been said that there is some scope to move them and also in where they aim.
I would say siege weapons are something to try to be taken out asap. As well as mammoths (damage to walls and gates)
Hope this helped.
Maybe if Athelan reads this on his next visit here he could help out further, but one thing is for sure its all interesting and definately not a static place.
Thanks guys for the replies. And nice pics Avery, that must have been a lot of work. I certainly see the need to prevent exploits, and having a range of possible build locations (provided there is at least some room for player choice and strategy) would be ok by me.
I'm not looking for complete ultrarealistic freedom but maybe the opportunity to actually have a reason for players to scout out an enemies territory so they can draw up plans for an attack, where they want to place their siege weapons, maybe identifying the weak sides of the keep so attacks could come from different directions (or multiple directions simultaneously!). I think the possibilities would be pretty cool and make it more dynamic all around.
If not, I would be worried that defending your keep over time could possibly become sort of a routine process, where everyone went through the same motions during every attack, employing the same strategies, facing the same direction, etc.. and relying too much on player numbers for victory.
Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.
Dark age of Camelot had a perfectly working system with siege that can move. So i don't see why they are taking the easy road of making it static... I didn't saw any exploit the whole time i played in 3 years. (I saw much more exploiting by avatar nuking AOE through walls actually)
2 thumbs down to Conan siege.
What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...
So why 2 thumbs down, could you explain a bit more if poss, out of curiousity.
Well DAoC you could put your siege weapons where you wanted. But once there, they were static, and you had zero control on where they struck. So it's a choice, more static location choice, but fully dynamic firing and aiming, or dynamic location choice but static firing and aiming.
I figure it will probably work like city building placements in the PvE cities. You can't just place your city buildings anywhere ala SWG, you've got predetermined locations. Size A for the stables and crafting building, Size C for the Guild Hall, etc etc. There are just multiples of each spread around the city building area. So you still have choice and can have your own layouts and setups, but because the choices are limited they are also cohesive and in the end, your city, while less dynamic in placement, is sure to look a whole hell of a lot cooler then one that is just random 'place em where you want em'.
Also when talking about AoC sieging, it's a good idea to keep in the back of your mind that it's not all about defending or destroying each wall. You've got formation combat to consider, mounts to consider, as well that mounts can be killed. They aren't permanently destroyed, but are unusable for a time afterwards. So if you've got 20 cavalry and your just running over enemy lines and kickin the crap out of them, if the enemy guild manages somehow to take out that Cavalry (whether it be with pikeman or perhaps a formation of archers,) that cavalry is gone, an advantage for your guild removed.
So IMHO, despite there definitely being some static parts to siege warfare, it's still FAR more dynamic then what we saw in DAoC, and there are other features and parts to the battle that will insure that it's quite the dynamic and over-all rather fun experience.
In daoc, rams can be moved, catapults/trebs cannot. And you always control where they will fire (ram hits whatever is in front of it, trebs/catapults attack what you have selecetd and/or groundtarget you have set)
We have also been told there is a fair range of degree in movement left > right.
Decent thing here is that mounts can be used as a siege weapon too. Mammoths have effect on Walls and Rhinos are effective on gates amongst other things for example.
Tactical scope ftw - I won't be looking at the Bewbs in a fight though Mr D. Fortier.