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EQ 1 had fun/community in mind. WoW has profit in mind.

truenorthbgtruenorthbg Member Posts: 1,453

I think it is why it is probably repelling for many of us to play WoW (post TBC) or even other similar games (e.g., LotR) because they are so profit focused. 

 

 

EQ 1, on the other hand, even today, makes it money from expansions but maintains a community focus.  Yes.  Do not doubt.  Many, many things in EQ 1 I deplore.

 

 

Nevertheless, it remains the best. Probably always, based on what I see coming out.

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WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.

Comments

  • RecantRecant Member UncommonPosts: 1,586

    EQ's core design lends a more community orientated game.  That said, SOE are absolutely as profit hungry as Blizzard are, it's just that Blizzard are more successful.  EQ was once the king of the genre, just like Blizzard are today.  They really milked the expansions when they started coming out once every 6 months, they dropped the bar on quality.

    As for community, for a long time in EQ, and still mostly true today, forced interdependance was REQUIRED to play Everquest, at least beyond very slow grinding.

    WoW gave us an alternative to this heavy dependance on other people.  "MMO" means you play with other people, but the proportion of content that requires multiple people can differ.

    If SOE thought that changing most of EQs early-mid game content to solo difficulty, in order to make more money in the long run, they would.  They would certainly make some money short term, but then they would cheapen their brand, and lose their fanbase, so it's in their financial interests to cater to the hardcore, 6 or 54 man content as they have been doing.

    Still waiting for your Holy Grail MMORPG? Interesting...

  • fansedefansede Member UncommonPosts: 960

    Maybe this is a personal experience you may have but I doubt there is any real data to support your notion.

    Everquest, alongside with Ultima Online were the big trailblazers in online community development. However the game was irritating at best for gamers with less than hardcore time commitments.

    World of Warcraft brought simplicity and ease of the system to MMORPGs. I have seen intricate guilds, dedicated video sites, and lots of other websites dedicated to WoW.

    While to get into the game NOW may be a bit daunting, to say with a broad brush that Everquest was dedicated to the community and not money is a stretch.

    WoW has built many communities and i doubt they are just as dedicated as Everquest coomunities.

    They both need revenue to keep their game going. WoW is just better at earning it.

  • truenorthbgtruenorthbg Member Posts: 1,453

     

    Originally posted by Recant


    EQ's core design lends a more community orientated game.  That said, SOE are absolutely as profit hungry as Blizzard are, it's just that Blizzard are more successful.  EQ was once the king of the genre, just like Blizzard are today.  They really milked the expansions when they started coming out once every 6 months, they dropped the bar on quality.
    As for community, for a long time in EQ, and still mostly true today, forced interdependance was REQUIRED to play Everquest, at least beyond very slow grinding.
    WoW gave us an alternative to this heavy dependance on other people.  "MMO" means you play with other people, but the proportion of content that requires multiple people can differ.
    If SOE thought that changing most of EQs early-mid game content to solo difficulty, in order to make more money in the long run, they would.  They would certainly make some money short term, but then they would cheapen their brand, and lose their fanbase, so it's in their financial interests to cater to the hardcore, 6 or 54 man content as they have been doing.

    I agree that Blizzard and EQ are both profit-minded, but I am glad you understand my point. 

     

     

    I think when EQ started to get aggressively grindy with timesinks to key and flag, they were in the process of self-destruction by undermining group-cooperative gameplay that centered around meeting friends and family in-game.  Guilds were important and fun, but then the structure of Guilds and their policies --e.g., the need for DKP systems-- prevented community-oriented guilds from having a place in the game. [Oh, by the way, I think raiding is generally a good idea.  However, it should have been more accessible with less flagging and required less people.  That is, instead of 50 people, how about 20 or even 15ish?]

     

    I think it would have been wiser from a financial perspective, a business perspective, and a long-term sustainable growth perspective to cater to the community-oriented guilds and group gameplay. 

     

    -----
    WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
    I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945

    I agree somewhat with what you say.

     

    EQ1 was designed and made by people that were interested in making a fun game and hoping it broke even after a year and a half (from an old interview with brad).  There was no roadmap about how MMOs should be back then and some things turned out well and others not so well.  No one really expected the game to turn out as big as it did.  Just consider how hammered the San Diego internet infrastructure was shortly after its launch.  It was over whelmed and had to be upgraded because of EQ (if the stories are true).  However, SOE did a pretty good job of tossing out quality/community and grinding out less that quality expansions at breakneck speed.  Times sure changed.

     

    WoW also didn't expect the success it gathered as seen by the massive overcrowding on their servers shortly after launch.  However, while they were out to make money it was focused on delivering a good game first and counting on people sticking around to play it. 

     

    The community was much much stronger in early EQ than most games ever get, but they introduced many aspects that degraded it over time.  WoW instancing does the same aspect for communities.  I don't think either game focuses more on community aspect than the other does currently.   In fact one of the things I disliked about EQ was that in order to get content (bosses) you had to deny it from other guilds which caused much drama.  Oh the drama of eqvault back in the day.

     

     

     

  • nomadiannomadian Member Posts: 3,490

    Oh SoE have profit at mind alright,. EQ started out as a surprise it got so many players, but as its gone on its been seen as a cashcow especially as they can and have released many expansions out of it.

  • truenorthbgtruenorthbg Member Posts: 1,453

     

    Originally posted by nomadian


    Oh SoE have profit at mind alright,. EQ started out as a surprise it got so many players, but as its gone on its been seen as a cashcow especially as they can and have released many expansions out of it.

    It was with each expansion the game became worse, in my view, and more raid-oriented.  The concept of a guild as a company of friends, family, and a support network diminished and was replaced with the concept of a guild as an organized raid. 

     

     

    Ironically, the more in the direction of profit-minded, timesink for flags and keys, and raid grinds the less successful the game became. [Epics were fun, but some by their design would be intolerable today due to rare mobs, difficultly, inter alia.]

    -----
    WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
    I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.

  • OzmodanOzmodan Member EpicPosts: 9,726

    I have to disagree with the OP.  There is as much community in Wow as EQ had.  That is what keeps a lot of people playing.  Maybe your server was less community oriented, the several servers I play on have great community.

    I don't see how you can construe Blizzard as more money oriented than SOE, seems pretty much exactly the same.  Notice SOE now is bringing out card games as the other MMO's have shown them to be profitable.

  • zOMGREIzOMGREI Member Posts: 228

    Early EQ?  Yes.



    EQ in it's current state?  No.



    Have you seen some of these expansions?  You can't tell me that they were designed with the community as the primary interest.



    At the end of the day, anyway, it all comes down to profit---no matter what company, game, corporation, or what-have-you is running the show.

  • truenorthbgtruenorthbg Member Posts: 1,453

     

    Originally posted by Ozmodan 
    I don't see how you can construe Blizzard as more money oriented than SOE, seems pretty much exactly the same. 

    I was referring to the original game.  I have expressly stated repeatedly as EQ became more profit-minded it began to release uncreative expansions that were designed to keep people paying to 1) get keys or flags to 2) continuously raid.

     

     

     

    Similarly, WoW's expansion was modeled on this as well; i.e., to keep people paying [not to be confused with playing] to 1) faction grind to 2) raid. 

     


    Ultimately, it is a criticism of the industry in building games that lack creativity and community.  It is an obvious problem with the MMORPG industry right now.  At least I think so.

     

    -----
    WoW and fast food = commercial successes.
    I neither play WoW nor eat fast food.

  • OdenathusOdenathus Member UncommonPosts: 605

    I think the OP has the right idea, but for the wrong reasons. It's not that Sony was ever NOT profit minded or that Blizzard is not community oriented. It's the overall game concept that created both atmospheres.

    Blizzards game is designed to be solo'd to level cap. You only need to group for certain quests (which can be skipped) or for instances (which can be skipped).

    Sony's game was designed to be grouped from the character creation to the level cap. You had no choice but to join a community and seek out others. To find friends and advance together - and if someone was an Asshat, this to became public knowledge - because you depended on others to advance.

    my 2cp

    ----------------------------------------
    My dog barks some. Mentally you picture my dog, but I have not told you the type of dog which I have. Perhaps you even picture Toto, from "The Wizard of Oz." But I warn you, my dog is always with me.

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