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newbie review: the things I dont like about Eve
Swiftblade13
Member Posts: 638
So this time around the tutorial is MUCH better, I had no trouble at all getting into the game and I think maybe I'll continue playing it...... but here are my (superficial) gripes..
The things that really bother me:
1) Warping doesnt look very impressive because of all the distant stationary stars etc.
2) Warping through planets and space stations (makes all the excuses you want, it looks dumb)
EASY SOLUTION for these two items; make the "warp" tunnel opaque... it will look cooler, and you wont be able to see the solid objects outside that you are passing straight through....
3) Lack of clipping with solid objects (kills immersion big time)
4) Lack of ship alignment when mining, docking, or most importantly using stargates and acceleration gates. If the game was coded to bring the ship into alignment first.. then jump through the gate it would look much better (immersion again). As it is now you can accelerate via accelleration gate from 5k away, under it, above it, it doesnt matter. Stargates are near as bad... you get remotely close, then your ship dissappears and the stargate does its nice animation... it would look great if your ship actually accellerated into the existing stargate animation.. in the right direction and with the right alignment.
5) Ship "dancing" the ship bouncing around while mining etc. is very annoying... it should sit nice and still in respect to the asteroid.. or at least move slowly instead of dancing around like it doesnt know where it is going.
These items would give Eve the polish it deserves. A docking animation would also be nice... seeing your ship approach and maybe even enter a docking area in the space stations.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
Comments
"As it is now you can accelerate via accelleration gate from 5k away, under it, above it, it doesnt matter."
They patched it that way. Before, you had to get really close and then often got stuck inside the accelerationgate and you ship was dancing around..looked funny, but was annoying as hell..really, you have no idea what happens when your tank warps into the mission, and suddenly cries out because his tank breaks and he needs the support, but you cant warp because you are stuck inside the gate..
I had that several times, and i was not alone, so ccp changed it..
With the warping..mh. Yes, it kills immersion somehow. On the plus side, an experienced player needs to see whats going on around him in warp, because they are constantly scanning for ships while in warp with the onboardscanner.
The clippingproblem is a driverproblem btw. I noticed it in several versions of nvidias drivers, it went away in some versions of ati-drivers..theres something strange with it, hopefully will be resolved with the new engine
You need to get some folks shooting at you.... I promise, you won't care one bit about the complaints you've raised so far....
Instead it will be... "why won't my damn guns fire? (you are sensor damped) Why can't I warp away? (you are warp disrupted) Why can't my ship move faster than 30 km/sec (you are webbed), Why can't I........ (BOOM) .....
You'll feel plenty immersed by that time....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Bouncing around while mining only happens to me if for some reason my drones keep bumping into me. Clipping and/or warping threw objects was the only real gripe I had when I first started, which I got over quickly when I desperately needed to do a 180 and warp threw a station one day.
_________________________________
Currently Playing: Eve-Online
On the Backburner: EQ2
Retired: EQ, DAoC, WW2Online
RIP: AC2
Tried: Ryzom, Roma Victor, RoM, KH2, Forsaken World, AO, AoC, APB
Quit: SWG PRE-CU(Radiant/Starsider), WoW
Achiever 47% / Explorer 40% / Killer 87% / Socializer 27%
These are interesting things to complain about, I have to say. When I clicked the thread I was fully expecting the usual "skill training while logged out is teh suxorz" whining from the usual trial-account players.
A good post overall with some good observations.
"Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
-- Jean Rostand
First off, imagine the sheer size of space in reality. Those distant stars are millions of miles away, if not billions. If you are moving through space, those distant stars are NOT going to move. They will always appear stationary, no matter where you are within a system. The only time they will ever move is if you are actually moving a far enough distance, such as through a stargate meant to send you much farther away. It's like driving at night. No matter how far you drive, the stars above you will always be in the same place (except for the fact that the earth rotates) Those stars are VERY far away, and in the big picture, driving a thousand miles cross country is nothing compared to the distance of those stars from earth.
Second, you may think these eye candy features would be great, but think of how tiresome it would get after the 50th.. 100th.. 200th time, etc.. If you're out mission running, you don't want to have to take those extra seconds to dock in your station, especially if you just warped in from the back of it. While it would create immersion, it would only serve to severely piss off the majority of the players in the game by slowing them down. Not to mention some of the more crowded stations. The troubles would be crazy trying to dock 15-20 ships at once. Would they have to queue up? Would they just go through eachother, thus killing the immersion according to you? The first would take an even longer time, and the second defeats the purpose of your post.
Though I appreciate your effort to explain away these shortcomings, I have to disagree with your overall attitude.
Yes the stars dont appear to move because they are so far away, yes if you are traveling fast enough or through a wormhole you might be able to travel through solid objects.... I know these things can be explained away but they just arent visually appealing.... and this is a fantasy world... visually appealing is a big part of making it an enjoyable place to spend time.
As far as the docking and jumping animations..... it could be worked out (although I admit it might take an inordinate amount of work)... they could even just use a cut-scene style approach... you click "jump" and get a momentary private video that shows your ship in the jumpgate... then the jumpgate animation goes off.... no wait.. no animation of flying up to the gate... same with docking.... that way you dont have to worry about the traffic.
Don't be so negative... the trick is to find the simplest solution that would improve the situation.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
Cutscene?
Oh my..
Cutscenes are nice for the first 1-10 times, but after that they get annoying. They slow the game down without anything relevant happening. I doubt the majority of players would want this.
As for the stars: The stars themselves dont move. They change if you jump through stargates/jumpbridges acording to where you are then, because every star on the horizon is an acutal starsystem in game.
Celestials in your current system move when you warp which really adds to the game imho. Just not things that are so inbelievably far away that even a warp of 200AU wont change the perspective. Keep in mind that you only warp inside a solar system. For larger distances you need those stargates/jumpbridges.
One nice thing about the cutscene idea is it would be easy to add an option to turn them off
Im only talking about a 2 second or so cutscene anyway.. and the cutscene would use your current ship, the current gateway, applicable station and applicable backdrop.. it would essentially just instantly move your ship into the appropriate spot and exclude all other ships so they cant be in the same place at the same time...
I'm fairly certain this could be done quite simply... and it would be generated client side, so it wouldnt effect the server.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
wow, just play the game. all the things you complain about dont effect gameplay.
He didnt complain about gameplay, he complained about thing killing immersion..
seriously, you should read more than just the title of his thread.
The stars do actually move in relation to you when you warp, you notice it best when you have the solarsystem map view open.
In reality they would not much as nearly as much (the movment would in reality be less than a pixel) but the scale in eve is a bit off, probably intentionally to produce the effect you desired.
"Memories are meant to fade. They're designed that way for a reason."
My overall attitude? What's that supposed to mean? I explained things in a realistic manner, which is exactly what 'immersion' is supposed to do. Immersion is to make you feel immersed in the world, which means you want a realistic universe. And stars that are millions of miles away are -not- going to move in the game, because they wouldn't move in real-life.
And a docking animation might be more immersive, but it would definitely take away from the quality of gameplay if it causes people to take time doing something.
I really don't see the point in even complaining about the immersion that EVE provides, considering it is one of the most immersive MMOs I've ever played. You're thinking in the terms of graphics and animations only. The game itself provides great immersion. It's as I would imagine space being if we were really to that point in technology. The politics, the economy. Those are second to none. The ability to own space and fight for it. The ability to attack anyone anywhere you please, complete with penalties. Those are all very immersing things that you seem to be overlooking while wishing for more in a game that has it all.
This is so very true. In fact, I truly can't understand what the OP means by immersion, especially if he means graphic immersion. I'm staring at a 17 inch screen, no matter how good it is...its still just a small window. Someday we may get a 3D helmet or hard wire games into our head and I'll feel graphically immersed, but otherwise.... I just don't understand even caring about it.
Like Sheista said... I really feel EVE's gameplay is extremely immersive on so many fronts as was mentioned.... I'm really enjoying the game.
But hey, these are discussion forums and that's why we're all here, so to each their own I suppose.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The planets & sun in each solar system don't really exist because you don't run into them. Other ships, asteroids, and even dropped cans all exist because you can run into them. Its just a massive illusion and yes, it does ruin immersiveness big time.
There are other problems with this game, mostly scammers and exploiters. You cannot really play this game casually or with letting your guard down because you have the potential to lose month and months of your work by cheaters and scammers (other players). Considering the record of CCP, its not surprising that they find it amusing and side with the leet pvp players who scam/cheat.
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The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.
PROOF or STFU.
PROOF or STFU.
If I take a ship and fly into a planet or sun, whether going warp or using MWD, my ship will not be blown to bits. I know for certain that using warp will not blow up ships or even bounce. I don't think you'll bounce using your MWD, but even if you do its still flawed, because the ship shouldn't bounce, it should blow up.
POS bowling is one example of exploiting. contracts involves others. Just trading at one point in lag was another. I think its harder to find what isn't exploitable than what is. If you haven't been cheated or exploited yet its probably because you don't have enough stuff worth stealing to make it worthwhile to bother with you, gather enough and you'll be targeted.
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The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.
POS-Bowling is considered an exploit, you get banned for it.
Scamming without using bugs is a valid game-mechanic. take care of yourself in space.
Contractscamming via normally invalid contracts has been fixed.
Using cans/wrecks to make warping impossible by scattering them around your enemy has been fixed.
Supercaps being invincible because dictorbubbles dont stop already initiated warps has been fixed.
shooting wrecks to aggroflag your enemies doesnt work anymore.
Seriously, ccp works on killing exploitable bugs.
Scamming is a valid game-mechanic. You should consider carefully who to trust in a world without rules.
My former Alliance had to learn that the hard way, losing 4 bil in assets and getting infos about pos-passwords and fleets leaked through some idiot. He ruined his entire reputation in eve, havent seen him in any major alliance, neither friendly nor hostile after that incident, they wont let him in..
GM's and CCP are less than understanding and support the game as is. Any new exploits as they pop up are considered scams and not advertised until they are fixxed. People have lost billions and what not on Faulty POS coding, etc They don't replace POS's if you lose them due to an exploit or scam.
In the real world, if your robbed or victimized, you have some avenues to seek revenge. In this game, if your financially cheated, you'll most likely have no avenue for revenge. Besides players, CCP and GM's won't care if your expoited or scammed. There have been many scams including finding passwords for POS's to setting up a corp with shares and eventually just running off with the capital.
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The game is dead not, this game is good we make it and Romania Tv give it 5 goat heads, this is good rating for game.
I believe the word you are looking for in your post is not "Revenge", but "Justice".
Revenge can be made anywhere in EVE - kill rights obtained, wars declared, smearing campaigns, in so many ways can you fulfill your blood-lust. The very nature of the game that you point out as allowing scamming and any other under-handed ways of griefing the unaware is what enables "revenge" in the first place.
"Justice", on the other hand - no where in EVE does this exist, nor can it, at least until there is such a thing as a true governing body of actual people.
2) doesn't bug me as you are going faster than light, sxo if you we not in a wormhole a grain of sand would hit you with teh kinetic energy of a hydrogen bomb at least. try the solar system view if it buggs you.
3) sorry i don't understand what you mean here
4) ah doesn't bug me. as long as i don't hang on the gate its fine
5) ctrl-spacebar sets velocity to zero. you ship should settle down.
imersion varies for a lot of people, for example the ambulation changes are being added so that a number of people will feel more imersed. for me i love teh transhuman aspect to the game, you are imortal as long as you are in a pod, out of it you die, thats it, game over. the tactical screens, multiple widows, 3rd person view all add for me the remotness that the character i play has from what is a normal human.
as an aside,for a lot of people playing they are incredibly immersed, but they play with no sound, most of the effects turned off, and zoomed out so that you don't see any ships just the information icons of the 'objects of interest', this cuts down on the lag and it is the tactical situation that has them imersed not a pretty laser beam. one thing i love about the game is that is a very different game from one person to the next, it has that much complexity.
don't be discouraged though, keep making suggestions and keep asking questions as it is a game that we all contribute to.
OP- Update
I'm loving Eve, and as some of you stated the more deeply involved I become the less these things bother me.
As far as someones comment that the "immersion" I'm talking about is just graphics immersion...... Jumpgate TRI has terrible ancient graphics and I found that game MUCH more immersive.. especially when comparing day one in each world. Its the kind of game that will nearly cause you to fall out of your chair trying to dodge a missile... with these little glitches playing Eve feels very detached.
Immersion is a big thing to me.. this isnt so for everyone.... thats why I use a 26" widescreen monitor
VR monitors suck.... to me its just like holding a pair of PSP's in front of my eyes.
I really don't believe in "excessive realism" in MMO's or games.... reality is often boring and bland compared to fantasy.... thats why fantasy was created... to be better then reality. That said I am not an idiot... I understand that if you were moving within a single solar system you wouldnt see stars flying past by the thousands.... the sun would be the only one showing a noticeable change..... I'm just saying that the "warp" effect is not nearly as impressive as it could be....... It would be a lot "cooler" if it looked something like familiar star wars or startrek LS/Warp effects.... in this case I'd say keep the same effect.. just make it opaque.... that way us newbies dont let out a big WTF upon seeing ourselves fly through solid objects....... rational explanations might please you.. but it still looks dumb.
Cutscenes (as I stated before) could be very short and have an option to be turned off.
Dancing around asteroids; I learned on day 2 that I dont have to be close to the roid' to mine it, and that even if I am close I can just hit "stop ship" and prevent the dancing... but this should be resolved.. I think it might make the game better at retaining new players.
Pick on me all you want but these immersion breaking details nearly caused me to leave Eve in my wake until I started getting deeper into the content. (and got into a good Corp).
And all you vets, calm down and stop being defensive.. I am not suggesting they change the way the game plays and ruin it for you...... If all my suggestions were actually implemented the only real differences you would see would be the fact that you would have to click off "cutscenes" and that the warp tunnel would become opaque...... I hardly think those two items would be enough to ruin the game for you.
Grymm
MMO addict in recovery!
EQ,SWG preCU,L2,EQ2,GW,CoH/CoV,V:SOH,
Aion,AoC,TR,WAR,EVE,BP,RIFT,WoW and others... no more!
Wait for the new Dx9-Engine. Just wait for it. Oooooh yes..
If you're going to keep accusing us of being defensive, we're going to keep right on pointing out the flaws in your complaints.
You don't want immersion, you want special effects. I think you're still confusing what immersion is. CCP tried to create a universe that you could feel as if you were a part of. Every aspect of the game that you do has an impact on other players, whether you're buying something, selling something, mining and building things, fleet warfare, being a pirate, etc.. It all has an effect on the rest of the world whether you realize it or not. CCP has created the most realistic version of mankind's future in space that there could possibly be, and it works.
What you're complaining about are things that are very realistic in nature (with exception of docking animations). Distant stars wouldn't move.. wormholes are a very logical explanation. Otherwise, as someone said earlier if you were traveling that fast and you hit a rock the size of a dime, it would go straight through your hull. Since there is no gravity in space, and things have no friction, they will go on endlessly at the speed which they were projected or until they get sucked into a gravitational pull from some moon or planet, or if they collide with something else.
People have explained this pretty clearly to you, yet you keep repeating yourself as if you heard but didn't care. Considering the -type- of MMO that CCP has created, which is in a very realistic and possible way (It is Sci-Fi, but yet it is not to the point of Star Wars, with wild creatures and fantasy-like aspects). What you're asking is for special effects. You want something that just looks cool, but you're confusing it with immersion, which in this case is realism because of that is the theme of the game. A realistic Sci-Fi. Not a Star Wars-like Sci-Fi.
Well, I guess we are a bit defensive, we scowl at things that might increase lag, or waste coding resources at CCP on things not really desired by the bulk of the player base.
However, that said, while I don't need the new player avatars, I realize that many players do, and I think adding them to EVE will bring in a whole new crop of players who just couldn't get immersed in the game sitting in a pod/spaceship the whole time. So there's no real reason not to consider some of the the OP's ideas along with others that will serve to make the game more enjoyable for other new players.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon