Too many MMOs?

Krileon · September 2007

Is anyone asking the same question to themselves. Are there just to damn many MMOs out there?

At this point i'm so confused and frustrated that I might quit MMOs all together. I either waste time or money testing/buying an MMO that's either a clone, sucks, has no community, or awful support.

So I'm going to tell what games i've played. What I think of them. What i'm looking for in a game and lets see if we can pull our experience together and help one another find the "perfect" game for us. I'm so tired of poping 50 bucks here and 50 bucks there. Once every year or half a year is ok, but seriously.. MMOs are comeing out so fast it's like you have to spend 50 bucks on a weekly basis. I know it isn't much, but I'd rather not have to spend the money for yet another door stop.

Games I've played: (in no perticular order)

Everquest 1 - I loved this game through and through. Great story, great immersion, good community, very good game all around. Problem is.. the graphics are dated.. the community is nearly gone.. and I don't have the time for the grind anymore.

Earth & Beyond - This game just flat out rocked.. I'd still be playing it, but it was canceled.. no reason to go into any further detail.

Dark Age of Camelot - This game was a blast before the silly expansions kept rolling in. then it got out of hand. Suddenly a 300 man dragon raid turned into any normal boss encounter with a standard group. Lost its appeal on first expansion. Great pvp.. grind wasn't TOO bad, but was boring none the less. Depth wasn't much there.. primarly enjoyed its pvp only.

City of Heroes/Villains - Loved the customization depth and the story.. saddly the game is short lived.. after a few missions the fun died off for me and pvp wasn't much of a primary focus later levels players ignored it.

Guild Wars - Loved it untill I ascended then it just got boring as hell. I hated the pvp in this game for some reason.. flavor of the monty anyone?

Everquest 2 - Hated it at first.. returned and loved it.. community began dieing and doing raids became impossible. Customization was fun, but the same spells over and over, because they were always upgrades of one another got old.

Planetside - Had an absolute blast, but my connection couldn't handle it at the time. When I finally got highspd.. it was dead practicly.

Shadowbane - This game just plain rocked, but I HATED the graphics (yes visuals are important to me) and the server lag drove me off the walls. Community began dieing.. so was done with it.

Star Wars Galaxies - I'd probably still be playing this if the eased up on the grind and wouldn't have revamped the crap out of it.. WAS a good game. Crafting used to be AMASINGLY fun..

Vanguard: Saga of Heroes - This game is a pile of sh**.. i'm not even going to go into detail.. it just fking SUCKED.

World of Warcraft - Good game, but after 3 lvl60's and full T3 gear on all of them.. ta hell with it.. sold account.. never gonna look back.

Rappelz - Fun game except for the mindless grind.. I like it because it's fast paced as far as killing goes, but the GMs are assholes. I sold 2 stones for millions, because some doofus for some odd reason bought them. They accused me of buying rupees which never happened. So they banned me and stripped me of all my stuff. I tried talking to them and they didn't give a flying crap what I had to say.. fk off Rappelz.

Lord of The Rings Online - I'm sorry fan boys.. cry me a river for saying this, but it felt like a freaken WOW clone with a few new "features" ROFL /MUSIC!.. anyway.. pile of crap.. don't want to go through that again (I made it to max level so stfu with "you didn't play it long enough".. i'm a casual gamer (2hrs a day.. maybe 3) that had to WAIT for casual games to catch up.. either little kids.. or morons.. game sux).

What i'm looking for:

Fast paced combat.. i'm tired of taking 5minutes to kill 1 creature.. blasting through hoards of mobs is just awesome.. I want more of that.
Grind - Not to hardcore.. not to kiddy friendly.. I don't mind a grind as long as killing is fast paced.. that is enjoyable to me.. I won't notice the grind as much.
Character customization - I want nice indepth or OK customization.. not 1 face, 1 hair, 1 color.. etc.
Classes/Skills - I don't care if it's skill or class based.. as long as it is done right.. it works for me
Levels - with or without levels.. I don't care
PvP - With or without doesn't matter.. if WITH.. then it needs to be good..
Crafting - I want to craft.. and I don't want it to be boring press 1 button TADA item.. that's lame.. or maybe not.. IF done right.. could be good
Community - I don't want to have to shout all week for 1 group. Either has a good community or I can solo the sh** out of it.. either one will work.
Economy - I don't really care at this point.. economy gets screwed in the end and gold spammers/farmers don't bother me.. so doesn't matter to me if botters spam on a secondly basis. I'll turn chat off. (usually do anyway)
Quests - don't really care at this point.. you can only have so many unique quests before you've done them all.
Mounts - I like mounts.. don't know why.. don't really need them.. i just like them.. if there is none.. that's ok, but I prefer them.
Auction System - I prefer some sort of system to auction off items. I do NOT like to stand around usng my game time trying to spam messages and get peoples attention.. auction system is a MUST.
Graphics - they need to be good.. not OMG OUT OF THIS WORLD, but they need to be good. I'm not going to play an ugly mess.. so don't suggest one that you "think" is good, but actually looks like something I pooped out.
Soloability - I solo A LOT. I want the game to have HIGH solo support/factor in it.. grouping is always an option for me..
Loot - I like loot, but I don't want to spend weeks upon weeks and hours everyday doing the same stupid dungeons for gear.. no thx.. did it enough in previous games.. i'll pass.
F2P/P2P - doesn't matter.. what matters is the quality of the game.

What i'm currently looking at: (these are the games i'm interested in, going to try, or have caught my attention)

Anarchy Online - People say good things.. so why the heck not.. i'll give it a whirl.
Hellgate - This game looks BADASS.. I like how you get swarmed and can just slaughter everything.. awesome...
Sword of the New World - Ya customization sucks and I hear a few bad things, but looking at gameplay videos it looks fun.. I like the getting swarmed by massive amounts of mobs killing.. fast paced is what I want.
Gods and Heroes - Don't know much, but squad combat sounds fun.. that's about all I know.

So what do you guys think? Is there a game for me or are my standards just to high for this big timers to make a good game? I've been developing my own game for about 2 years now and the engine is nearly complete. Content will be rolling out soon in it and it is being designed to cater to all gamers alike (I'm tired of so many MMOs.. i'm stealing all the good elements and throwing them into a box to make sweet love.. then i'm jacking the mutant baby and selling it..)

Anyway, what could you suggest for me? Or feel free to post the same thing I did, but it being about you.

Zorvan · September 2007

Problem with mmos is simple.

"EQ/WoW are SO last year. Let's make a game that brings them into this year!!"

Devs then repeat this formula ad nauseum every year.

Oh, and Anarchy Online is your best bet on your list of games to try. You can't go wrong with AO. Also, remember that they just replaced all the servers, and engine/graphic upgrades are on the horizon. So, don't let the graphics hold you back (she is 6 years old now).

hazmats · September 2007

MMOs are comeing out so fast it's like you have to spend 50 bucks on a weekly basis. I know it isn't much, but I'd rather not have to spend the money for yet another door stop.

You know, you don't have to buy every single MMO that comes out. I havn't purchased one in quite some time. I maybe buy 1 MMO a year, if that.

Krileon · September 2007

I have some questions about AO though. Is it Solo friendly? Also is it fast paced? I really can't stand another, fight this mob for 5minutes.. then that one for 10.. then that one for 6.. it gets SOOO boring.

I also think you are absolutely right. Hellgate looks like the game for me and this game has a somewhat similar futuristic vibe that hellgate gives me. I just need a good game to hold me for a month.

Was hoping Rappelz would be it, but poor support turned that idea down.

paulscott · September 2007

TCoS when it comes out. will have combat closer to a shooter than to a MMO.

Hochete · September 2007

The problem isn't the number of MMO's currently available, it's the unfortunate popularity of the genre. If the MMORPG genre was still as relatively unheard of as it was 5 years ago then you could bet your bottom dollar there would be some absolutely fantastic games for real MMO fans to play. Unfortunately, games companies are obviously driven by money which, in turn, results in them churning out terrible MMO after terrible MMO just to meet the demand of the ever-growing 'fan base'. If the genre wasn't as popular we'd have games companies making games for the love of making games, like they once did... UO being a prime example.

paulscott · September 2007

no such thing as too many. more options to vote with your subscription fee to tell the devs what you want.

obviously what we want are hype machines but that's a whole different story.

Krileon · September 2007

Originally posted by paulscott

TCoS when it comes out. will have combat closer to a shooter than to a MMO.

Don't really want a shooter. I'm not a big fan of FPS style. I just want fast paced combat. Don't confuse it with FPS style, because they arn't exactly 1 in the same.

What I mean is.. lets see an example.. Diablo2.. RPG style game, but fast paced combat.. slaughtering through hoards of mobs, excluding bosses. I'm looking for that kind of style. It looks like Hellgate is deff for me, but what to play till then? AO will be downloaded tonight so i'll give it a try. I just really need something to hold me for a month and i'll be fine.

Farquania · September 2007

You are wrong!

There needs to be more MMOs!!!

I need more to play because I already beat them all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

/sarcasm

siresper · September 2007

Too many mmo's..

Bad for developers, but great for the players.

We get more variety with which to pick from and the ability to vote on our prefered gaming styles with our wallets, while they get the constant pressure to out-do the competition and continue improving their game.

This is one of those times when capitalism is a really good thing. If we had just a few games holding a monopoly on the genre, the quality would be much lower and its the customer that suffers. Just like any other business.

Krileon · September 2007

Some of you havn't quite caught on yet. If you've played as many MMOs as I have and played nearly all the current MMOs (and some of the upcoming MMOs). You can clearly see the direction.

They are just cloning WHAT WORKS. With constant failures of "innovative" games they've given up. We are simply seeing 1 game after another that is nearly identicle to the previous one. There are a few good upcoming MMOs, but new looks isn't all that needs to be done.

You can only do things so many times before they all end up the same, but my MMO has about 60 features never done before and it boggles my mind as to why they havn't. Either way i'm going to take hold and do it my self. They can't make a decent game. I'll make one my self. Once i'm done with DX10 support i'll begin working on content. Network coding is still flaky, but I need a working demo first for that.

Anyway, I'm hoping some of the upcoming games are worth buying. The problem I face is that i've purchased so many or played so many i'm pretty uptight and hold high standards for what I purchase/play now. It isn't a lot of money, but 2-4hrs a day is a lot of time. I have no desire to waste my dedicated time on a pile of garabage or a game that's going to go downhill in a few months. It's just frustrating knowing all that time was wasted.

I am looking forward to Hellgate, Gods and Heroes, and maybe AoC. They all appear to have veyr different gameplay compared to the mainstream and I hope they break the mold. If something isn't done soon i'll simply play F2P games casual (1-3hrs) and dedicate more time to my own development (I should be doing this anyway, but between working nights and coding during the day.. I need a break.)

heart363 · September 2007

Soo many MMO's, soo little exightment, so, already got a name for ya game?

any specs?

Tatum · September 2007

Well, I would definately agree with you on a couple points.

1) MMOs have become WAY too shallow.

2) MMO gameplay is, in general, very slow and boring.

Ive always felt like MMO gameplay was a weak point, but at least the older MMOs had some depth. Now, you have the same, slow gameplay, plus a total lack of depth. Its an entire genre catering to ultra casual gamers that can barely tie their virtual shoes.

And, damnit, HG:L better be as fun as we're hyping it up to be...

Kyleran · September 2007

OP....you didn't mention trying EVE..... while the combat isn't fast paced....just about every other item in your list in is EVE...and its really quite different. I've been enjoying it for the past four months and probably will be on it for many months to come.

Krileon · September 2007

Originally posted by heart363

Soo many MMO's, soo little exightment, so, already got a name for ya game?
any specs?

No named for it. I'm still trying to think of what I call it. I've got a good idea what I want to call it, but still. Undesided.

As far as specs go. Mid Range to High End GAMING RIG.

This means you need a high end standard PC to run this.

I'm sorry folks but a word processing rig isn't going to be a gaming rig in my world. If you want to experience the game to its fullest. You need to upgrade. I'm making my game for furture tech and current tech. I'm not going to cater to the folks who believe they should be able to run the latest games on the oldest tech. It's not going to happen. It's to much work and to time consuming trying to do that. So just a heads up if you plan to play. Upgrade your rig.

I've got a couple years more to develop it. I'm still letting games release so I can see what they do good and add that into my game and learn from what they do bad. This has been a good development method and my friend (beta tester) has said even with programmer art. The gameplay just rocks. I've completed a small town, a little hunting area, and a dungeon. Just little test areas (not going to be in the game) to test gameplay.

I do want player feedback on what they want, but then again what got me started on this project wasn't the money.. it was that I wanted to make a game for my enjoyment. So do I care what my players think? You bet. Will I add/do everything they possible want? No. Somethings will be they way they are going to be and that won't change. For example. It's a level based game. I don't want to hear whining, OMG I WANT SKILLZ YO. To bad. Skills are good, but didn't the system didn't fit the game. So levels it is. Good news? You can group with anyone regardless of level. Can a level1 kill a level100? Probably not, but if they could that'd be just stupid in the first place. A level100 has 99 levels of experience under his belt. That'd be just pure retardation to think otherwise. The level1 would get slaughtered obviously.

Leveling is fast paced. EVERYTHING SCALES. From your armor, weapons, to your spells, abilities. Nothing is ever useless. Spells do not "Upgrade" from one another and there is no "Classes" you make your own or be everything. At max level you'll have every ability and can deside how you want to play on a daily basis if you like. Freedom is key. You do what YOU want to. Not what I want you to do. Max level is still being desided, but we've set on level200 with 5skill points per level. giving you 1000 skills/spells/abilities to use at max level. This MAY change. If I can't manage to make 1000 different things. It shouldn't be to hard. Ranging from passives to actives. Abilitie to weild a shield to an ability to attack with a shield. It shouldn't be hard.

Anyway, AO looks pretty cool. Doesn't seam fast paced as i'm wanting, but then again I only need a game to hold me over for a month lol.

Indo · September 2007

This post should be titled - "Too many fantasy MMO's". Yeah I know it's just a setting and the basis of the mmo will be the same (grind for xp, get leet loot, etc.) but the fantasy market is flooded. Simply changing the setting would be a nice change of pace.

dirtyjoe78 · September 2007

Originally posted by hazmats

MMOs are comeing out so fast it's like you have to spend 50 bucks on a weekly basis. I know it isn't much, but I'd rather not have to spend the money for yet another door stop.

You know, you don't have to buy every single MMO that comes out. I havn't purchased one in quite some time. I maybe buy 1 MMO a year, if that.

I like to mess with free trials and betas lets me see a new game but not pay for it

SykoSilver · September 2007

The problem is the MMOG genre itself. It shouldn't exist. You see, MMO is a technology, and shouldn't define a genre. It's exactly like how "3d" used to be attached to genres to separate them, but in the end they became the same thing. I think breaking out of this MMO mold and just going with the traditional genres, instead utilizing MMO as a technology, is what's needed to provide gamers with what they want.

Skyline416 · September 2007

Too many fodder MMORPGS.

NOT NEARLY ENOUGH QUALITY MMORPGS.

Dreadlich · September 2007

I'm sick of fantasy. Sci-fi needs some lovin'.

My ideal game would have:

1. The light FPS combat of Planetside (actually have to aim... NO ASSIST)

2. The PvP of DAoC (or maybe Lineage 2 - haven't played it, but the seiges seem on par with Relic Raids from Camelot)

3. Itemization based on trades not raids. All items should be crafted by the playerbase using crafting systems with SWG/EQ2 complexity.

That's the short list. Hopefully 40K will have FPS targeting and indepth crafting. It's a LONG way out and I'm not holding my breath though.

EDIT: After thinking about it, I want darkness and 1st person back. Completely do away with 3rd person. I want immersion. Same reasoning with darkness. I haven't seen a game where night time meant anything since EQ1 (infra/ultravision actually meant something). Model it in the clipping plane so the people that jack their gamma can't bypass it.

Krileon · September 2007

I agree that there needs to be some sci-fi games done actually good. AO being an exception. I plan to add some sci-fi or maybe make the entire game sci-fi. At this point it's undecided what will be done. I'd like to make it fully futuristic with large buildings you could climb with special powers or using grapling hooks, etc. Jumping off giant buildings with glider wings on your back. That would be cool. No content has been made beyond the test zone to test game mechanics.

So it truely is up in the air. Once i'm done with all the game merchanics i'll be ripping out content. At that point i'll probably deside which would be best and easiest for me (i'm a 1 man team.. I need a break on some of this LOL). I really would enjoy doing a MIX of sci-fi and traditional fantasy style, which is basiclly 95% sure of what will be done.

Lightning and fog will also been important factors in my game. You can't simply jack up the brightness and enjoy. I plan to add little things or be very indepth with the lightning. So if you do jack up the brightness.. you'll need some high powered sunglasses to withstand the bright light. I want torches/flash lights to have a meaning.. I want scare factor.. suprise.. suspense. I also plan to make torches/flash lights non-intrusive. I hated how you had to waste a slot (usually offhand) to gain a light. While you will need this for hand torches or flashlights. There will be other options. Example: Back strapped pole that holds a lantern, or a shoulder/helmet mounted flashlight, etc.

Krileon · September 2007

Ok just tried AO and well.. I really don't like it ROFL. Gonna try to find something else I suppose. This really sucks =(

82994 · September 2007

there arent too many MMOs theres just too many generic MMO thats exactly like the others because people got sucked into them and cant get out because theres nothing left out there to play anymore, there needs to be more MMOs really, just not another WoW duplicate or maybe another grind for 5 hours and you get a quest... guess what the quest you get is to go grind some more!HOORAY GRINDING i hate grinding

Krileon · September 2007

Originally posted by 82994

there arent too many MMOs theres just too many generic MMO thats exactly like the others because people got sucked into them and cant get out because theres nothing left out there to play anymore, there needs to be more MMOs really, just not another WoW duplicate or maybe another grind for 5 hours and you get a quest... guess what the quest you get is to go grind some more!HOORAY GRINDING i hate grinding

I feel the same. I just can't stand the grinds anymore.

I have plans to make everything in my game advance your character so it doesn't feel like you're just killing the same thing over and over. If you kill a certain random number of the same mob then go kill something else. You get a bonus for moving to a new location and for killing a new mob instead of the same thing. This should help players not feel like they are stuck in 1 spot. All respawn timers are on the same time EXCEPT for boss mobs. So no 1 spot will truely be better then the other. Some will spawn MORE mobs, but that would require help of another player. So you're looking at a little decrease and a little increase at the same time. It balances out. If you find a new locaiton you get exp. If you craft an item you get exp. If you run for a certain distance you get exp. If you do enough emotes you get exp. There is anti-abuse scripts written in to stop people for exploiting lets say afk emoting, so don't let that worry you.

What i'm trying to say is i'm trying to make everyone happy. I just hope I can release it in a timely fashion. I might be starting my own custom PC and internet cafe up soon so I may crunching for time if I deside to follow through. At this point I don't know yet.

Gime · September 2007

Originally posted by Krileon

Originally posted by paulscott

TCoS when it comes out. will have combat closer to a shooter than to a MMO.

Don't really want a shooter. I'm not a big fan of FPS style. I just want fast paced combat. Don't confuse it with FPS style, because they arn't exactly 1 in the same.

What I mean is.. lets see an example.. Diablo2.. RPG style game, but fast paced combat.. slaughtering through hoards of mobs, excluding bosses. I'm looking for that kind of style. It looks like Hellgate is deff for me, but what to play till then? AO will be downloaded tonight so i'll give it a try. I just really need something to hold me for a month and i'll be fine.

Sounds to me you want an action-RPG and nothing something where you actually have to think. Diable 2 and Hellgate aren't MMORPGs, they are just on-line ACTION-rpgs.

Quit MMORPGs and save me the bandwith. And stop crying. Please... stop bloody crying already.

Krileon · September 2007

Originally posted by Gime

Originally posted by Krileon

Originally posted by paulscott

TCoS when it comes out. will have combat closer to a shooter than to a MMO.

Don't really want a shooter. I'm not a big fan of FPS style. I just want fast paced combat. Don't confuse it with FPS style, because they arn't exactly 1 in the same.

What I mean is.. lets see an example.. Diablo2.. RPG style game, but fast paced combat.. slaughtering through hoards of mobs, excluding bosses. I'm looking for that kind of style. It looks like Hellgate is deff for me, but what to play till then? AO will be downloaded tonight so i'll give it a try. I just really need something to hold me for a month and i'll be fine.

Sounds to me you want an action-RPG and nothing something where you actually have to think. Diable 2 and Hellgate aren't MMORPGs, they are just on-line ACTION-rpgs.

Quit MMORPGs and save me the bandwith. And stop crying. Please... stop bloody crying already.

You are partially correct. I want an Action MMORPG. You could consider them to be MMORPGS. MMO stands for Massive Multiplayer Online then Role Playing Game. Diablo2 Has thousands of players. This would thus classify it as Massive. It is also an RPG. So one COULD consider it an MMORPG.

Why is Guildwars listed? It's the same as Hellgates instances, except Hellgate doesn't suck. Hellgate also has a paid subscription.

If you don't like the "crying" get the fk out of my thread? That's always a good option for you.. You arn't being forced to read this.

I'm sorry if I don't want to kill the same creature for 5minutes. My bad for wanting a different play style. People like you is why all these damn games are the same. You do nothing but support crappy clones. I'm standing up for the "different" and if you don't like it well then you can get the hell out of my thread. Nuff said.

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Too many MMOs?

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Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV