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Is WAR the main option for DAOC lovers?
Czzarre
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 3,742
Obviously Warhammer Online will be an obvious choice for players who loved DAOC. However, I am wondering if there are any other games coming down the pike that would be attractive to players from DAOC. there are way too many MMORPGs (new and old) to keep track. I, Like most am awaiting WAR, but what else lies ahead. Give me a few leads that I should investigate.
Thanks for your help
Torrential
Comments
Setting wise or rvr wise? When someone says they love DAoC i instantly associate that with the RvR system since that is what it is so well known for. But I admit that is my own subjective impressions speaking - People could conceivably play all the pve content and not once engage in pvp (which in itself bares mentioning... it was somewhat revolutionary in the sense that it brought massive exciting pvp to the masses and yet remained entirely consentual, which was a new idea in the times of UO and shadowbane)
My first reaction would have been to say PoTBS because of the multiple (more than 2) split up of the factions that are at odds with eachother, tactical pvp, area control, etc. But of course the SETTING is entirely different than DaoC.
Yes, RVR is what I was focusing on in my post. Im sorry I didnt make that clearer. Thanks for your input.
er...whats PoTBS?
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
Pirates of the Burning Sea
As far as RVR, you could limit that and call it "faction vs faction". You could then dilute and call faction vs faction "Groups of one race or group of people vs other races or groups of people". Finally we come to "guild vs guild" which is open to many things, a guild based on a group of people or race, or a group of people with a particular belief.
I think WAR is going to be awesome, though I think Age of Conan is gonna be more in lines with DAOC.
Age of Conan has keep sieges, capture and hole resources, large scale guild vs guild open warfare. WAR is true RVR but realm vs realm can be a synonym for really any group of people vs another group of people.. Good vs bad, all that stuff.
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Played (In order of favorite first to least): DAOC, EQ2, EVE, WOW, Vanguard, AC2, City of __, Guild Wars, LOTRO, EQ, Sword of New World, FFXI, Lineage 2, Second Life, DDO, Anarchy Online, RF Online, Archlord, Uru, Ragnarok Online, Shadowbane, Planetside, Auto Assault, Ryzom, Matrix Online, Horizons, Entropia, Sims, Runescape, Lineage 1, AC1, Dungeon Runners
Actually WAR will be a bad choice for DAOC players if they like DAOC - that is unless WAR changes a lot. You go from 3 sides down to 2. There is no central "frontier." There is going to be instanced RvR in WAR. While open field RvR will be an option, RvR is much off of a war and more of a game with points. Different things you do earn different points that will determine who controls the zone. They are trying to make the game play also different. If they change the game play (character design/combat) combined with a sporting events feel for RvR instead of actual warfare determining who wins, then I can't see any similarity between the two.
WAR is going to be its own game, and any similarity between it and DAOC is unintentional.
I would say that Age of Conan is more like the next step for DAOC players. You have player created towns, an RvR area, and the ability to capture/destroy cities and fortifications. PotBS might be an option if you want a pirate game with RvR in it as well, but sticking with fantasy I believe AoC will be much more appealing than WAR when they are both released.
I agree with the others, though I Ioved DAOC I'm pretty sure that WAR really won't be much like it. I think it will be its own game, even more heavily focused on PVP than DAOC was and incorporating some more modern features like balanced, instanced combat.
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
While I'm just argueing the fine points, I get the feeling Age of Conan will be similar to guild wars in feel.. only not instanced. Essentially what I'm getting at is that if you have a super sweet guild with all the right classes and people on all the time.. you'll get your keep and you'll run around have a ton of fun. But if your a lowly person like myself that can't play all the time.. and don't have 40 people at my back all the time.. what does castle sieges and guild vs guild combat do for me?
However with WAR I get the feeling with public quests... instanced pvp and the contribution system... it makes single players actually able to help their entire side.. not just their guild.
So whatever you feel fits you best... I guess.. do you have a guild or want to join one? AoC is probly your closer bet.. if not.. I'd stick to WAR. Pirates... I don't know enough about .. but it has a fanbase, so ask around and I'm sure someone can tell you more.
Isn't there a mercenary type feature in AoC that lets guilds hire on additional help ? Perhaps that could help with that.
I actually disagree with the premise of this post. If I were to sum it up, I would say your line about "sporting event" feel is why DaoC players will not enjoy it.
Treating the MMO like a "spoting event" is eactly what DoaC does well. I am going to go out on a limb but I think that is exactly what the DoaC player is looking for in a game. DaoC was the first game to add "Nationalism" to the MMO. Albs HATE Hibs. Hibs HATE Albs. Middies HATE Everyone! lol. I think the "Go! Team! Go!" of DaoC is what made it a fun game. The gameplay wasn't all that special. The balancing was horendous. But the Esprit de Corp was the best ever.
EQ2 and WoW actually stole this from DoaC. Even so, they haven't completely tapped into that "blind zealotry' that all DaoC players share. Strangely, bad balancing added to the zealotry. No one got swarmed like the unbalanced classes. In any XP group, the conversation would eventually turn into, "Yesterday a stupid Lurk Ranger killed my entire group and he was lower level. They are way overpowered." <---- from the early days.
TEAM!
That is what I am looking for in WAR. I think you will find most other DaoC players agree.
I want to thank all of the above posters. Great discussion and a lot of help to me. I wager that WAR will still have an 'Esprit de corpes' . I believe that comes form being in a RVR based games. EQ and WoW, as much as they put faction patriotsm in thier backstory are still PVE based games. I believe you will only find true unity when you have to make a choice and no playing both sides on any one server.
Ill take another loko at AoC. I had heard the hype and looked briefly at it. But based on the above comments Ill look more closely.
I had never heard of PoTBS. Sometimes different is good. Although I wonder if it will be flooded with Johnny Depp wanna-be's. Ill look into this.
Thanks guys
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
I actually disagree with the premise of this post. If I were to sum it up, I would say your line about "sporting event" feel is why DaoC players will not enjoy it.
Treating the MMO like a "spoting event" is eactly what DoaC does well. I am going to go out on a limb but I think that is exactly what the DoaC player is looking for in a game. DaoC was the first game to add "Nationalism" to the MMO. Albs HATE Hibs. Hibs HATE Albs. Middies HATE Everyone! lol. I think the "Go! Team! Go!" of DaoC is what made it a fun game. The gameplay wasn't all that special. The balancing was horendous. But the Esprit de Corp was the best ever.
EQ2 and WoW actually stole this from DoaC. Even so, they haven't completely tapped into that "blind zealotry' that all DaoC players share. Strangely, bad balancing added to the zealotry. No one got swarmed like the unbalanced classes. In any XP group, the conversation would eventually turn into, "Yesterday a stupid Lurk Ranger killed my entire group and he was lower level. They are way overpowered." <---- from the early days.
TEAM!
That is what I am looking for in WAR. I think you will find most other DaoC players agree.
Here is what I mean by a sport. In DAOC you fight to control keeps and towers. There are also relics to take. There is no "winning" however. In WAR, you can win, but winning is not decided on the battlefield per se. In DAOC, you own the keep if you take it. It is yours as long as it is not taken. This is what I mean by DAOC actually being like a war. In WAR, however, it is like a basketball game. You fight and earn points for zone control. Whatever side gets the most points "wins" the field and that is it.
DAOC at one time, had realm pride. Most of that is lost for various reasons from the ease of leveling, incentives to play other servers, clustering, etc. I do not see WAR having much in terms of realm pride either. Leveling cannot be as hard as say EQ. The whole 2 sides with 3 factions each is also going to screw things up. Is it "go dwarves" or go "order"? Not to mention the feel of WAR will be like a sporting event and not a war.
What built Hibs up was being the lowest populated realm at the time with everyone fighting on your backyard. There won't be a central unifing feeling/event like this in WAR given how the game is designed.
At least in AoC you will be fighting for "your" guild. That will give you an incentive and loyalty that won't be in a game where the means of control is not fighting to take land, but fighting to earn points where the "prize" is having zone control.
Combat and the first 20 levels of AoC being solo are the only things that worry me about AoC meeting the desires of DAOC players. However, I think that given the choice between AoC that has warfare, keeps, towns, etc. versus a game that is based around just killing other players for points and having instanced RvR as a necessary condition for getting points will just leave a sour taste in people's mouths that go to WAR wanting something like DAOC.
Link to a small PotBS overview.
Because this one apparently releases first, I´ll put some money in it. If it sucks, still enough time to selfhype a bit to the other ones.
Ok, what are announced release-dates worth today?
If WAR fixes all of that without destroying any of the FEEL of the RvR, then HURRAY FOR WAR!!!!!!!!!
DAoC had the best RvR...... 4 years ago.......now it sucks more than a baby sucking on a pacifier. Someone call the waaaaaaaaaaaambulance, cause DAoC's RvR sucks.
Isn't there a mercenary type feature in AoC that lets guilds hire on additional help ? Perhaps that could help with that.
there is. Guilds can hire people that aren't in guilds. I'm pretty sure I read a developer say that.
I have come to a similar conclusion as the rest of the people. In the beginning when WAR was announced, I was excited. I figured Mythic with it's experience gained from DAoC would be able to put together a game that would carry me into the next decade of gaming but as time progressed I began to loose interest in WAR. I have not lost total interest but it is fleeting at best right now. AoC just looks better and better. Same has happened to a few of my good buddies.
As stated before, the whole realm pride might have been the proverbial glue that held the game together. I think people will be hard pressed to really associate themselves with anything in particular in WAR, where as in AoC you'll have the massive (hopefully) guilds that want to control territory above all else and will fight hard and long into the wee hours of the morning to keep what they worked hard for. It somewhat makes it feel more like a community IMO then what was described in WAR. I feel it somewhat removes you from the rest of the people, removes the notoriety that players once used to have in DAoC. A simple mention of a name and you could turn it into a long conversation about how he might be a good leader, an all around good person or a complete douche bag.
Someone above mentioned that having little time to play might hamper their fun because they might not have a large amount of people at their back. I believe this is going to be solved by the afore mentioned Mercenary System where guilds fighting for territory or assaulting a keep or whatever can send out a call and pay people to fight for their side. This would give you the option to fight with others, get to know them and perhaps even join their guild if you find you like what you see. Or you may choose to continue your career as a merc and gain notoriety that way and perhaps this will mean that you can then ask for more money when you join an army
I'm just wondering if I can walk into this battlefield without any particular affiliation and just mindlessly slaughter the both sides as I exploit the chaos of the battlefield for nothing more the giggles and shits.
No required quests! And if I decide I want to be an assassin-cartographer-dancer-pastry chef who lives only to stalk and kill interior decorators, then that's who I want to be, even if it takes me four years to max all the skills and everyone else thinks I'm freaking nuts. -Madimorga-
somebody said DAoC was the first game to bring 'nationalism' to the realm of pvp, which is wrong.
At least one of EQ's original pvp servers consisted of 3 factions: Good, Neutral, and Evil. Depending on your race, you fell into one of these factions. DAoC was made after this.
Interesting... this is why I wish Vanguard kept the PvP server as team-based, then it would be 1v1v1. Instead, it's now FFA, so I assume it's a gank-fest, so there's no reason to even try to play the PvP server.
DAoC has Realm vs. Realm. Not faction vs. faction.
It's much different when your PvP efforts benefit every single person in your realm.
EQ brought segregation. DAoC brought nationalism
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
Yea, I agree with the above poster. You cannot equate EQs pvp server to the game of DAOC. The PvP server was an afterthought...a PvP option in a PVE designed game. Daoc may have been released after EQ and even shortly after the PvP servers launch, but I wager the realm vs realm design was in the works from the inseption of DAOC which occured a long time before EQ PvP servers. From EQs first attempts at PvP to WoW of today, I honestly believe PvP from a PVE based game will always pale in comparison to PvP/RvR of a game made for that purpose.
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)