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Player Run MMorpg's
mrg11545
Member Posts: 24
I think it's intresting in most game's you can find Player made Economies and more
Do you believe in MMO's allowing players more control or less control in it's development from it's release and onward:
In my opinion, i think that it allows players to immerse themselves into games at a greater level and also brings a level of realism to the game. In my opinion MMO's should open up more to this fact and give players a chance to shape the game themselves, and by doing this is will probally stop repetetiveness in games. I think that also events should be affected by players, if alot of players are dieing in an area then maybe the kingdom your in for example will increase patrols in the area. I would like you thoughts on this...
Names Used - Garfinkel, MGarf, Scripter, Mrg11545 etc..
I Demand another Planetside!
(Copy and paste this into your sig)
Comments
A Tale in the Desert did exactly that last time I checked...which was a long time ago lol.
i don't like player driven story lines / games / etc, for the same reason i don't pay 7.50 to watch a home movie in a theatre on saturday night.
if i'm paying for a product i want the content to be created by professionals, not rank amateurs. i don't want to play anything that young jimmy from down the street created. the extent of player involvement should be the community and some pvp -- not the story line, world, or mechanics of the game.
As much as I agree as to wanting the "professionals" to create the content, I can't really say there has been a good, deep, involved, and unique (as unique as a story can get anyway) game made recently. Now I am sure I have not played all games that have come out in the last couple years, but it just doesn't seem like companies really care about "content" too much. Well, content that makes you feel involved with the game anyway.
I think a system could be made where the community comes up with story lines/quests/missions/mechanics/what have you, but then have that go through a quality-check team which consists of the "Professionals". I believe that people in general would come up with something that everyone could enjoy ... in terms of story and such.
I guess I base this on dnd campaigns I have been in, Shadowrun, and playing Neverwinter Nights since it first came out. I have seen servers with player made content that blows "Professional" made content out of the water. Maybe I am looking at things wrong...
the MMORPG world is probably the worst place to look for professionally made games. it's full of cookie cutter korean games and games made by small time, poorly run companies -- everyone trying to get a piece of the pie.
the only mmo games i consider to be professionally made in the first place, are games such as WoW / EQ / DAoC / etc.. basically anything you can find (or could have found) on a wal mart shelf - games that make it to retail stores. anything less than that is not professionally made, imo (there are a few exceptions, sure).
sure, players can come up with some good stories. but how many down right crappy / non-playable stories come before that one good one?
I'd say about 1-5% of player made story lines are ever worth playing. On that note, I'd say about 5% of MMOs released could really be considered professionally made.
besides, in today's world of "all about me", i'm sure everyone thinks their story is the greatest.
Now this, I agree with completely.
I'm not saying that full integration should happen but if players start using a small town in the game a lot it should become bigger than the ones the players barely use. In simple terms Players should change the environment around them. The quests don't have to be player made yet maybe allow players to setup bounties or quest to collect items that they are too weak to get.
Names Used - Garfinkel, MGarf, Scripter, Mrg11545 etc..
I Demand another Planetside!
(Copy and paste this into your sig)
I dont believe in this theory either.
I believe an MMORPG should be a set world, with a theme, and a storyline. Then the developers should add content, make events and so and so... To keep the players busy, meanwhile they do player events.
Futilez - Mature MMORPG Community
Correcting people since birth.
I think that players should be given the ability to create content for a game within the lore and the bounds of what would be appropriate for the game's setting.
For instance, I think that CCP adding the ability to create missions and hire people for them, as well as claiming sovereignty over whole constellations is amazing.
EVE is the only game I've played (aside from SoR) where the player's actions change the course of history in the game world. I mean I'm sure everyone heard of that heist that occurred back in '05 where players infiltrated a corporation and ended up stealing tons of stuff and killing the CEO.
And the wars are crazy. Diplomacy actually has a place in this game.
It's the best example of how to create an online world (except maybe second life). You set up rules, and a place, and you introduce items and ways to do things, and then you allow the players to make the storyline with some nudges here and there.
If you allow the players too much free reign on what they can create and put into the game, the game can be killed or changed to the point where it no longer resembles what it used to be.
I think CCP has struck a nice balance with dev content and player content.
EDIT: To Orca: The dev-made storylines are usually very static and nothing the players do actually changes anything. Sure you go raid a bandit camp, but then someone raids that same bandit camp and brings back the same valuable possession that was stolen by them. It makes no sense.
In a game where the players make the storyline through their own actions, the devs can sit back and make sure the code is optimized, and the overarching storyline is nudged in an appropriate way.
This creates a much more dynamic world, where there's no need for a dev-made storyline except for the main overarching story and the setting, and of course the ruleset in place for the game.
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I live to fight, and fight to live.
Shadowbane has player made content. Guilds build their own cities, and siege and destroy other guilds cities. So there are always alliances being formed and broken. Politics is a huge part of the game.
Back in the day, we called those MUDS and MUSH
Torrential
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
I agree with this vision. This type of world is something that can be achieved only through an online game, and it's the direction I think devs should be trying to work towards.
If you're building an mmorpg, or if you'd like to share ideas or talk about this industry, visit Multiplayer Worlds.
I can never understand why people keep pushing for linear storylines in an MMORPG. you're no hero period in regards to PVE. you rescue an NPC he respawns for the next guy.
"shutup vajuras thats so impossible for game devs to code!"
Oh not at all, its called dynamic AI. Real thinkin, strategic AI that can dynamically evaluate current game state and create hostile conditions for players. Even a 100% PVE game could have so much dynamics its scary
PVP- without a death penalty and without true gain/loss I dont see what you are changing in it either. I conquer a town in a fake world it resets. I save a newbie from death just maybe I saved him from getting harassed? But wait a second his gankers will come right back as soon as I leave! We need for tough penalties. long travel times, terms of surrender, temporary attribute penalty, and such. What about jail? Hell ya I'd try that. consequences, for everyone involved. high risk for pvpers and high risk for victims.
MMORPG should integrate real impact like some of the titles I lsited in my player run worlds blog --> http://www.mmorpg.com/blogs/vajuras/062007/168_Player-Run-Universes
but I of course would love to see more then these titles. For every linear, EQ-inspired MMO there should be a good sandbox MMO
Shadowbane is the best player run game there is.
The definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over expecting different results.
I guess the question is why havn't game companies created MMO's with Sandbox especially when from looking at this thread the majority prefer Player Run
Names Used - Garfinkel, MGarf, Scripter, Mrg11545 etc..
I Demand another Planetside!
(Copy and paste this into your sig)
The player preference wasn't originally geared for sandbox. Sandbox was a niche term before WoW. But I think that now that a larger number of people have been introduced to MMOs they are discovering what they like. Since such a large number of people play MMOs now, there are bound to be larger groups that find that they enjoy sandbox more.
I think more companies will start creating Sandbox MMOs over time, but the majority of current MMOs in production were in production stages before WoW was even released, so this idea wasn't well known yet except in some smaller games like EVE (which was a much smaller population at the time of WoW's release)
Sandbox games depend heavily on "magic" factor. Game developers dont understand how to reproduce magic factor. But they do understand how to hit mainstream audiences. Cater to newbies. this is their model- make it simple. jsut dirt simple. my friend lets his 6 year old PVP for him in WoW battlegrounds. this is how simple it has gotten, devs hand out rewards no matter what
you can suck at playing your toon but you'll still hit level cap. sure Asian games dont follow that model but Western MMOs do. You cant be de-leveled for sucking.
mass appeal = quests, classes, levels, battlegrounds, even battles (25vs25), no ganking, no griefing, no building houses anywhere you want (my god how do we go about destroying these things when players take a break for a year or two?), no taking over land (my god we will piss off our newbies if they lose their land), zergs (no death penalty and dice rolls equals zerg)
take a look at WAR. It has taken WoW's model and somehow found a way to water it down even more and it is #1 hype on this site.
That's your "majority". Please don't base too much (read: any part) of reality on it.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
You know, when SWG first came out, I literally spent like 6 hours traveling around looking for an NPC to sell off my junk to. I refused to believe what everyone else was telling me that there were no NPC's that buy your junk for a set price. So I traveled from town to town spamming on chat, "Don't tell me theres no NPC's I can't sell to, its a secret, you powergamers won't tell me where the NPC is located at, i'll find him hahahahaha. Then i'll tell everyone else about your little secret hahaha."
I never found the NPC.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
You know, when SWG first came out, I literally spent like 6 hours traveling around looking for an NPC to sell off my junk to. I refused to believe what everyone else was telling me that there were no NPC's that buy your junk for a set price. So I traveled from town to town spamming on chat, "Don't tell me theres no NPC's I can't sell to, its a secret, you powergamers won't tell me where the NPC is located at, i'll find him hahahahaha. Then i'll tell everyone else about your little secret hahaha."
I never found the NPC.
You can't have been looking too hard...he was just the other side of the cantina in Mos Eisley.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
You know, when SWG first came out, I literally spent like 6 hours traveling around looking for an NPC to sell off my junk to. I refused to believe what everyone else was telling me that there were no NPC's that buy your junk for a set price. So I traveled from town to town spamming on chat, "Don't tell me theres no NPC's I can't sell to, its a secret, you powergamers won't tell me where the NPC is located at, i'll find him hahahahaha. Then i'll tell everyone else about your little secret hahaha."
I never found the NPC.
You can't have been looking too hard...he was just the other side of the cantina in Mos Eisley.
Pre holocon?
Ah, well I dont know about that....
Because they are lots harder to code and control. And first rule of business is less risk is sure money, even if it is less because we are not innovative.
UO was meant as such and failed terribly, so they had to introduce more rules and even more until they decided that a non pvp facet was their easiest solution.
We players are the games best assets and greatest dangers and developers are still looking for the magic formula as what you can allow players to do without sacrificing too much.
Shadowbane failed because of buggyness and too much freedom, sort of as UO at the start. But that is because the developers did not set any workable rules and future games might manage to provide such, that the games are fun and interesting for all to play.
The perfect MMORPG is a world completely run by the players, with only starting-cities (which can be destroyed, overtaken, etc.) by the devs.
An MMO where people create player-run cities, player-run shops, merchants, crafting, items, EVERYTHING.
All things are player run. NPC's may or may not exist, who really cares?
Total freedom, FFA PvP, factions warring each other, vying for control over resources land, etc.
But the players (and especially devs) are heavily involved to making a world of Order, not Chaos. Of safety, not a gank-fest PK massacre griefer-paradise. Player-police, Player-guards, Player-everything..
www.atriarch.com
Something similar to atriarch's idea. Everything is player-run, player-created, etc.
Atriarch used a 24/7 "always on" character system, with NPC hirelings as a major part of the game. NPC's would form workers, armies, assistances, anything you needed or wanted. You could do absolutely anything, with little to no rules. It also had perma-death, although it was suppose to be "very hard to die" and it wasn't total perma-death, since you could "spawn" a copy of yourself in case you died.
DISCLAIMER: NO, Second Life does not count. That is NOT what I am talking about. Not even close. Something like Atriarch is what I am talking about, which is completely different than Second Life.
Sadly, Atriarch is poorly funded, so its practically known as vaporware.
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Seriously, that is a very big thing to consider.
On one hand, you have an amazing theory, idea, or game.
One the other hand, you have players, who are humans, who are retarded stupid idiots with less brain power than monkeys, along with tons of people with black-hearts (griefers, exploiters, gold-sellers, the average human being, and all other forms of Satan that plague MMO's with evil, ruining the game).
Any Theory, Idea, or Game + Human Control + Anonymous No-Penalty Internet Freedom = OH NO @#$#@$@#
Not to say it's not possible to have a good game with real players................but real players are not sunshine, rainbows, and candy. They're more like radioactive/poisonous sludge, foaming at the mouth disease filled rodents, and closer to a Film Critic (that's NOT good) than a productive member of society. And that's the good ones....lol... no one wants to know what the bad ones resemble.
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