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Breaking the tiresome MMORPG barrier, is it possible?
Ferett
Member Posts: 51
Long time viewer, first time poster, so to speak. Anywho, lately I've been looking at the countless array of MMORPGs that are scheduled to come out in the next few month's time. Each one seems to get the idea of having nice, flashy graphics, but is there more to the game than just eye candy?
The mainstream in MMORPGs today, in my honest oppinion, seems to be just the bland lack of content I run into 24/7 in this genre. For example, the main thing I see as far as a "quest", in any MMORPG, usually ends up with this basic result: "You must discover the secrets of the mystical castle depths, and bring peace to the kingdom... as you bash as many monsters/NPCs/players as humanly possible in one sitting." Sure, this was great and dandy back in the days of Ultima online, or Meridan 59... but after so many monsters and so many random things getting beaten over the head, it just gets plain tiresome.
Now I now what your thinking right now, your probably asking yourself, "But Ferett, you can get cool special abilities from killing things, or you can also craft weapons and armor and tools of destruction!". Er... wait a minute... what exactally are these "cool abilities and tools of destruction" used for again? Wait.. I think I know the answer... ahh yes more... hmm, monster bashing.
See what I mean guys? To me it just seems like a hopeless, endless cycle of repetition and monotiny. I dont really care just how flashy the graphics, or how cool the spell effects, or how neato that sword/spell/spaceship is, it just brings itself back to the same ol same ol. And the worst part about it for me is, well... I could do half these things in a regular FPS shootem' up, Unreal'esqe styled game. Why bother with the tandem of turn base when I could get the speed and joy of real time?
I dont know... lately I've just been bored out of my mind with the constant, day in day out repetitive combat. Another thing I find a bit disturbing is... why are they called "MMORPGs", and not just "MMOGs"? I barely recall one or two moments of actual, sit down roleplaying when on a game, whether it be fantasy, sci fi or the like, without thousands of people chiming in with the constant talk, terms and phrases of our every day lives (or that web lingo, leet I think its called).
I'm sorry I drew this thing out a bit, dont worry this is the ending paragraph from me, then you can gladly give your 2 cents below. I really hope that someone, some genius of a man, woman, company, that someone can help break this norm of "kill kill kill" in the good majority of MMORPGs today. Whether it be some new goal, some new idea, hell I even wouldnt mind something to give new freshness to the constant barrage of throat-slashing, if it was done right of course. If not, then well.. I seriously fear for the MMORPG genre turning into something as generic as the First Person Shooter, and I greatly fear that day indeed.
Comments
........Tabula Rasa
Combat is very active, but not twitch. It requires balancing of body, mind and spirit attacks and building up a "Chi" meter, to unleash special attacks... point is, its very hard to type while fighting. In fact they're putting in support for voice chat to make communicating during battle easier. Not sure exactly how it works yet, but in the video interview its said to be inspired by fighting games.
In the video interview, they walked a player through a prison break-out mission. You could choose to either fight your way in or sneak in, and you had to get the prisoner (who you see getting tortured) out of the cell. Then you have to protect, and escort the guy out. And he's no fool, he fights alongside you. Examples like these are the kind of missions the devs are creating, many with multiple methods of completion.
There's innovation in just about every other aspect of the game as well... but i have no wish to write an essay paper so here's a good preview:
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/tabula-rasa/512085p1.html
Official E3 trailer, from the homepage
ftp://ftp.playtr.com/New_e3_Trailer_480.mov
And there's a video interview out there somewhere too.
Eventually. Of course, you're always going to be constrained to some finite set of input. Either it will be kill this, or kill this then kill that, or don't kill and use some finite set of commands to do another action besides killing.
Guildwars has some interesting objectives(for missions), but missions are linear @_@.
In AO there were search-exclusive missions as well, or missions that required exploration to complete (those were,personally, my favorites).
There will always be some form of monotony because of the finite nature of mmorpgs due to capital constraints: Take the set of all independent things to do, then you have the space for all actions and objectives.
"Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say 'ni' at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land. Nothing is sacred."
MP
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
I have seen a lot of these kinds of posts over the last year or so. They all express many of the same concerns and the main ones are: "I'm tired of hack and slash" and " Where's the roll playing"
Yes mmorpg's are time consuming. Yes they require a certain amount of pain to acquire a certain amount of gain. But there has to be a way for a character to advance or you would be even more bored than you are now. As you know it takes a ton of effort and dedication to advance to a high level and I think this is where trouble sometimes begins.
When you have spent hours upon days upon weeks working to reach the highest level, once there it is kind of an anti-climax. You swam that ocean, you've climbed the mountain and so it's now what? Where do I go from here?
So far the answer has been do it again (create another character) or go into some advanced levels. Either way it is more of the same.
Now on to roll playing. The vast majority of mmorpg clientel do not roll play so to expect that all do so runs counter to reality. Many games have dedicated servers for roll playing and this is where RPer's should be. Now any time you play a game with a character that does not look, act, speak or walk like you, you are playing a roll. So mmorpg still applies.
So I think it all boils down to this. Roll players play on RP servers. If you are tired of hack and slash or tired of "the grind" perhaps you are burned out and just plain tired of playing. The remedy is play another genre or just quit playing for a while. If you are not having fun then chances are you're making others miserable too.
Some things to ponder:
Are mmorpg's like a narcotic where we find ourselves wanting more and more?
Are we letting mmorpg's become our replacement for reality?
Are mmorpg's creating, enlarging or exposing voids in our lives?
Just my two cents from the been there done that archive.
Hi All,
I agree with Galoot, it seems that a LOT of MMOG players are really not happy
with some of the aspects of the MMOG industry. I believe the future
will see more niche titles attracting smaller player bases that cater better
for their needs, which means the indy developer could do well.
The big publisher/developers believed they hit on a formula to
print money for the minimum of effort. When the 1st MMOG's came out this
was true as there was no other choice/competition. Its not true now and
I for one hope its an indy that launches 'the next big thing' to make us all
happy again.
-Macca
Well, to put it bluntly I dont play MMORPGs 24/7, on the contrary I'm actually a fairly "casual" player, so to speak. And yes I understand that MMORPGs require alot of time invested into it, trust me I was on EQ for a good 2 years or so, but eventually it just seems to burn itself out.
I dont know, in my 12+ years of gaming, I've always found myself able to play, replay and play over and over FPS's, RPG's, RTS's, flight sims, driving sims, sports sims, etc etc etc. Yet MMORPGs just seem to not really cut it content wise for me, perhaps I'm just too used to playing the lone world of single player games back in the early 90s where content was just meant to be built around the player.
I play online games all the time, actually I really try to stray from games that dont have some sort of online capability, playing it with friends and others is more fun. Unfortunately, all of the MMORPG's I've played really start losing the interest they held when you started the game, friends guilds or not, it dissolves into a pay monthly glorified social chatroom once you do everything in the game (and trust me, I've re-created and re-done and re-leveled on countless of other characters, nabbed almost everything to nab and seen everything to see in most MMORPGs, I might be casual at times but I'm damn persistant).
I dunno, maybe they'll release some form of an open-ended advancement system in a new MMORPG, complicated as that might be to remove that brick wall set in place (and hopefully without 500+ expansion packs to do so). All I can say is, if a single player RPG like Morrowind can, and still is keeping me occupied for countless months (nearing a year) on end, and a MMORPG for maybe two months tops, then there is seriously something wrong, something wrong with the genre itself, or perhaps just something wrong with me. I'm really hoping its just me, if others are feeling the same monotiny, then the developers really need to pull a few new ideas out of the hat, an "indy" as one person put it.
Sounds like you are ready for the upcoming Dark and Light or Darkfall. Strategic PvP means player and clan politcs with changing land control and that means an ever changing game background.
I think a lot of experienced gamers are tired of the same old thing and want something more dynamic and more multi-dimensional.
There is actually two reasons for the current crop of MMO's. One is the company side of things. The other is the player side of things.
On the company side we have Ultima and Everquest. They are a blessing and a curse. Blessing because they showed that a MMO could be popular and very profitable. A curse because they showed a MMO could be popular and very profitable. Companies have seen what one can do, so they all want the same success. So instead of spending money inventing something new and exciting, they keep reproducing the same thing over and over. If they try something different, they see it doesn't catch on within a month and they can it.
On the player side we have gotten to the point where we have been fed the same thing for so long that we have gotten it in our heads that nothing else is possible. Instead of asking for new things, we just accept that the only thing possible is kill, kill, kill. For some reason we are no longer the dreamers, instead we have turned into a bunch of developers who limit our wishes and imaginations to what we percieve as possible. Try making a suggestion in any game for something like a sandbox type play, where the players set up a new level are area. In space it could be a new star system, in fantasy it could be a new island, in City of Heroes it could be a new city section. What is the responce you will get from the players? "Oh that would be awesome, but I don't see how that would ever be possible". I know because I have made the suggestion. Why should any player have that attitude? If the players want something we should ask for it and have the developers make it possible.
It is a sad state we are in now. But until the players demand more it's just not going to happen.
________________________________________________________________
The only game I have really enjoyed is Earth and Beyond. A tale in the Desert was a close second (lack of players caused me to quit). Tried Rubies of Evertide, Linage, Dark age of Camelot, and Anarchy Online. Liked none of them.
Youre right Ferett, but until the majority of players voice their dissatisfaction at the endless monster killing, and demand ROLE PLAYING in their mmrpgs, the games will still cater to the lowest common denominator (the 11 year old kiddie fresh from a quake session wanting to pwn some globlins).
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Played: AC1, DAoC, E&B, SWG
Tested: AC1, AC2, DAoC, Eve, Planetside, Rubies, Lineage 2
Sleepyguyftl, This is so true!
I recently posted an idea to add various levels of a player run banking system in Dark and Light in order to ease clan resource management in this complex, multidimensional game and to add some real economic competition between the alignments and you describe the response of a lot of fans exactly.
It's very understandable how so many of you wish to see greater creativity, roleplay, and innovation in MMO gaming. I'd like to see greater depth as well. But I think many (or most of you) simply do not appreciate how varied opinions are about how to implement "depth", and what risks that poses to companies in attempting to be innovative.
No two people will agree 100% upon what is the best way to accomplish a task. Some will insist that static content (camps) are the best way to expose storylines while others will insist dynamic content (instancing) allows for greater flexibility. For some solo exploration and conquest will be their delight while some will prefer heavy dependancies upon one another in groups. Should items drop or should they be crafted or both? Should there be levels, skill trees, experience point pools? Should there be a faction system? Player versus player with intra-race murder or consentual? How many characters should you be allowed to run? Are mules tolerated? What about macroing?
I could go on for a long time listing heavily debated issues where there is no consensus. There is no one way to accomplish any of these things. Gaming companies have to make a choice: do we build a game that satisfies a niche market, or appeals to the masses?
Niche market games are exceptionally good at delivering a slice of the pie, and they usually are very innovative and interesting, but they often lack the depth and shine of the largest MMOGs. Niche games have smaller audiences, and thus they must find a way to subsist off of a smaller revenue stream and thus their budgets are smaller. Owing to their limited finances they simply don't posess the resources to delivery miles of material fast enough to appease the consumer base. You get "more" of the "depth" you desire, but you get less content and sometimes less polish.
Games that appeal to the masses do much better in terms of revenue and content, having more finance to pay for more development/art/content. But in appealing to a broader spectrum they must choose to deploy content that appeases the majority. In most cases, due to variance of opinion on how to best achieve "depth", that means a compromised middle-ground. You get a great deal more of this content, but it isn't as specialized and robust as a niche game since highly-specialized choices tend to exclude more players than it includes...and since exclusion of a player means they will not pay to play, you don't want to exclude players.
Every once in a while something breaks through the molds from niche markets and appeals to a wide audience. You can see this in the history of gaming in general. Certain games redefine genres, and they are usually good enough to leave lasting legacies. The problem with MMO in this regard is that development risks are so large (total up-front investment is typically many multiples more than a normal game) that you have fewer releases per year, and thus less probability of a genre-redefining niche game. What's more, the risk of failure in MMOG is much more dramatic than most games. There are more millions at stake...more people who will go bankrupt, lose their jobs, and leave a legacy of risk and failure behind. The stakes are greater, because the money is bigger, and people tend to be adverse to such risks.
But companies will keep trying, because the profit potential on a genre-redefining game is huge. Innovation can pay, but it's a huge risk and there is no guaranteed payoff. How many previews have you read of games that promised this but failed to deliver? It's not easy...if it was, everyone would do it...and if it was easy, it wouldn't be all that special or interesting either.
So while you all pine away for that content that you seek, remember that it's not that these companies don't care or won't listen. They care deeply: you pay their bills...they know that, and care about that very much. They want to give you what you want, but unfortunately you don't all agree on what that should be.
"in my 12+ years of gaming, I've always found myself able to play, replay and play over and over FPS's, RPG's, RTS's, flight sims, driving sims, sports sims, etc etc etc. Yet MMORPGs just seem to not really cut it content wise for me, perhaps I'm just too used to playing the lone world of single player games back in the early 90s where content was just meant to be built around the player. "
Yes they are two different animals. My first home game was pong which I enjoyed for hours on end. Then came Atari and all of the counsels that followed. Then came the DOS based games which came on 5 1/4" floppies when state of the art computer systems had a whopping 2 megs of RAM.
With many of the single player games you get level editors ect so that people can make their own levels and weapons. I'm still having fun with Mech Warrior and Ghost Recon. In fact as of late I've been modifying weapons in Call Of Duty and laughing my backside off at the accuracy and power. (and yes I already beat the game and no I don't play on line)
But getting back to mmorpg's. For myself, when I log on I want to go have fun and not have to deal with resources not being available for armor or weapons or anything else. As for politics and all that, no thanks I play to escape real life and there's enough politics in any guild or player association the way it is.
Now, I felt the same way as many others have after playing and leveling for a long long time. But I found that it was not the game but rather myself and quit playing for over a year. (except single player games) And then when I went back the game had changed a LOT and there was tons of new content and I once again had a whole lot of fun.
Yes there are a lot of people that are disenchanted with the games out there right now. But those same games have an active player base in the hundreds of thousands. So there are still a lot of people that do not agree there is a major problem.
Ok two more cents worth.
This is something that has never really sat right with me about MMORPGs. Devs seem to try and throw in additional features to make playing their games with all of the boring hunting/treadmill stuff bearable. If the main feature of the game (advancement of levels or skills) is so horribly boring why have it in the game?
It seems to me the only reason for such boring features is that it makes getting to the "end game" take alot of time, thus hopefully keeping subscribers around for a bit longer. If the devs can keep players crunching through months of boring leveling just for the promise of cool features once they hit a certain level they can keep the money rolling in. Its a shame really since this genre of game has so much potential thats being wasted.
It often seems that for a monthly fee current MMORPGs give you a chance to participate in a psycological study to see how much monotonous repetition you'll take before cracking up.
I think it is definately possible to do away with the tiresome barrier, but it will take a change in the way both players and devs view this genre of game. I would love to see an RPG in which killing mobs gives no exp, if you want to kill them, you should get to do it because you enjoy it, not because its required. Also, I'd like to see the disparity between high and low levels/skills decreased alot. Let skills/levels act as a small bonus to success rather than the sole factor. Allow the players to decide success of an action with the choices they make and to be competative (even if not quite as good) from the first time they log in.
Wish online, check it out, the main focus of the game is the roleplaying as well as the progressive storyline. they plan to have game masters present all the time, planning and executing a prepetual storyline. Also the game is focused around the tavers, as a hub for adventurers and a place to gather information and find quests to go off on. If they can pull this of this is exactly the game I've been looking for and it seems like it is right up your alley too. Give it a little hype for going someplace that other MMORPG's dont go because there isnt as much money in storyline as there is in makeing super cool destructive items/ablilitys so you can kill bigger mobs and show off to the other super-mob-killers-in-training.
"It often seems that for a monthly fee current MMORPGs give you a chance to participate in a psycological study to see how much monotonous repetition you'll take before cracking up."
LOL it's interesting that you brought that up. First off I believe that there were and are studies going on in regard to behavior. Secondly, I often felt like a lab rat climbing through a maze just to get that piece of cheese at the end. Or kill these mobs and get this nice sword. When you stop and think about it that is exactly what we are doing. Performing a task to get a reward.
It's all a big conspiracy I tell ya it's mind control. Where's the tin foil I need a hat...