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Why Do Democratic States Have The Lowest Divorce Rates?

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Comments

  • gnomexxxgnomexxx Member Posts: 2,920
    Originally posted by abbaba


    The article is a blatantly partisan hit piece against what it calls "Conservative Christians."
    It focuses on two things (religion and politics) and ignores all other factors.
    Correlation does not imply causation. This article's logic is like saying "People who go to emergency rooms are much more likely to die in the next 3 months than people who don't.Therefore emergency rooms must be killing people."
     
    Mississippi has a high poverty rate, that must be because they're so religious down there. Mississippi has a hot, humid climate, that must be because they're so religious and conservative down there.
     
    and I Lol'ed @ the November 2004 date on the article. Scraping the bottom of the barrel, huh gnome?

    Are you saying things are drastically different 2.5 years later?  I bet not.

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  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918
    Originally posted by War_Eagle


     
    Originally posted by Draenor


     
    Originally posted by War_Eagle


     
    Originally posted by Tyrlais


    Holy crap, so what your telling me if I stop believing in God and stop being a Conservative, My wife wont leave me? sounds like the beliefs of  the "church of later day saints". I really did not know being liberal means great family values, like abortion for example. and same sex marriage.
     
     
    I think part of the problem is the holier than thou approach that most neo-conservatives take.

     

    It's funny reading some of the posts that people are making in response.  You can tell this is a statistic that really hits home and strikes a nerve.  Neo-cons are quick to point out the faults of others but when the finger points back at them they suddenly run and hide from the bright light of exposure.

     

    You could say that about literally every single group of people on the face of the Earth.

    Absolutely true, to some extent or other.  But I believe in generalities when it comes to groups.  I find generalities to be a very useful tool.  Statistics is a very useful tool and relies heavily on generalities.

     

    Now, with that in mind, when you look at this statistic it reveals something about neo-cons that they spend a lot of time and effort trying to portray a different way.  And, like I said, when the statistics say differently they run and hide.  Usually, that hiding is done by the use of finger pointing towards the other group as a tactic of distraction.  And before you say, "well Democrats do it too", (which essentially proves my point), let me say I agree.  Democrats do it too.  So, how is that an argument, pray tell?

    And lately, there has been a lot that both of the major parties can be shameful of.  But we've got a group of people who make it their bread and butter to be "holier than thou".  And when a group makes that their battle cry then they better be ready for some slinging coming back at them.

    Why retreat?  Stand up for your neo-con brothers and sisters in their divorce rate.  If it sucks for your group, then do something about it.  I would start by focusing on your groups divorce rate instead of blaming everything on gays, atheists, agnostics, and liberals.  It seems that goes against one of those great conservative ideologies of personal responsibility.  But then again, the neo-cons aren't really for those traditional conservative ideologies so much anymore.



    If your argument could be said for every group, and every issue that devides that group, then your argument is irrelevent and invalid.  YOu're trying to latch onto one specific group using a specific set of criticisms, but that set of criticisms is the same for every single group in the world, so how is your argument relevent and poignant when it's true for everyone?

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • METALDRAG0NMETALDRAG0N Member Posts: 1,680

    WoW another topic filled with hate got to love america 

    "Kill one man, and you are a murderer. Kill millions of men, and you are a conqueror. Kill them all, and you are a god."
    -- Jean Rostand

  • Originally posted by METALDRAG0N


    WoW another topic filled with hate got to love america 
    The "divide and conquer" strategy of the Bilderbergs is working perfectly!

     

    While the credulous American sheeple are at each others throats, their [the Bilderbergs] plans of world domination (and reformation) move swiftly ahead...totally uncontested!

  • War_EagleWar_Eagle Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 472

    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by War_Eagle


     
    Originally posted by Draenor


     
    Originally posted by War_Eagle


     
    Originally posted by Tyrlais


    Holy crap, so what your telling me if I stop believing in God and stop being a Conservative, My wife wont leave me? sounds like the beliefs of  the "church of later day saints". I really did not know being liberal means great family values, like abortion for example. and same sex marriage.
     
     
    I think part of the problem is the holier than thou approach that most neo-conservatives take.

     

    It's funny reading some of the posts that people are making in response.  You can tell this is a statistic that really hits home and strikes a nerve.  Neo-cons are quick to point out the faults of others but when the finger points back at them they suddenly run and hide from the bright light of exposure.

     

    You could say that about literally every single group of people on the face of the Earth.

    Absolutely true, to some extent or other.  But I believe in generalities when it comes to groups.  I find generalities to be a very useful tool.  Statistics is a very useful tool and relies heavily on generalities.

     

    Now, with that in mind, when you look at this statistic it reveals something about neo-cons that they spend a lot of time and effort trying to portray a different way.  And, like I said, when the statistics say differently they run and hide.  Usually, that hiding is done by the use of finger pointing towards the other group as a tactic of distraction.  And before you say, "well Democrats do it too", (which essentially proves my point), let me say I agree.  Democrats do it too.  So, how is that an argument, pray tell?

    And lately, there has been a lot that both of the major parties can be shameful of.  But we've got a group of people who make it their bread and butter to be "holier than thou".  And when a group makes that their battle cry then they better be ready for some slinging coming back at them.

    Why retreat?  Stand up for your neo-con brothers and sisters in their divorce rate.  If it sucks for your group, then do something about it.  I would start by focusing on your groups divorce rate instead of blaming everything on gays, atheists, agnostics, and liberals.  It seems that goes against one of those great conservative ideologies of personal responsibility.  But then again, the neo-cons aren't really for those traditional conservative ideologies so much anymore.



    If your argument could be said for every group, and every issue that devides that group, then your argument is irrelevent and invalid.  YOu're trying to latch onto one specific group using a specific set of criticisms, but that set of criticisms is the same for every single group in the world, so how is your argument relevent and poignant when it's true for everyone?

    Like I said, I believe in generalities.  I have no problem with them at all.  They are a useful tool.

    The field I am getting ready to become a professional in uses generalities in just about everything.  I am about to become a professional in veterinary medicine.  Without statistics and generalities where would we begin to focus on certain breeds of animals to promote better health for the whole species.  For instance, there are certain breeds of steers that are more prone to specific diseases as a general group, therefore we focus on that group and the prevention of those diseases more so than the others.  It's a number game, just as statistics and generalities are by definition.  Without them my field would be less useful for farmers economically.  They work on bottom line earnings and we're there to give them those results.

    Now, with divorce, you're right.  Divorce is a problem in every single group.  But in general it is a problem in some groups more than others.  Nobody can deny that.  And, if it is a problem in some groups more than others then to get that rate down the first place to focus on is the group with the highest rate of divorce.  And it is my opinion that nothing is going to help that group if the first knee jerk reaction they have is to blame others for their problems.  And that is the case these days in this country.  Virtually everything in America these days is split down the middle politically and it's killing us.

    I'll give you an example of how bad it is.  In the news there have been more and more Congressman and other political figures who are Republican's who have come out against the President and his policies in Iraq.  As soon as they do this they are called liberal.  It's as if your dismay with anything this President does strips you of your conservative label and brands you with a scarlet "L" in shame.  That's ridiculous.  Now, as much as I say I believe in generalities, I must add a disclaimer to that and say TRUE generalities.  Not emotional ones where if you disagree with somebody you simply move them into a category they don't belong in just to make the world look as you think it should look.

    A parallel situation is the issues of political parties and the hot button issue of religion.  The Republican's have made it their motto that they are the most holy in legislation and personal action.  Is it true?  Well, if you look at this statistic it appears not to be.  I'll tell you right now that I have some very liberal views when it comes to social issues.  Yet I am a devout Jew.  I love my religion.  And dare I say that it is a liberal leaning religion.  Most Jews vote Democrat.  But I admit that the Democrats of today are a cinder of what they used to be and that holds true for the Republican party as well.  The Democrats have become a party of big government socialists and the Republican's have become a party of big government neo-con religious theocrats.  There is no major party for true American ideals of freedom and liberty in those two parties.

    It seems to me that you are taking this statistic personally.  And if that motivates you to change what's going on with your group in general then that's a positive.  But if it motivates you simply to find a way to make the other side look worse than you while you ignore the problems in your own camp, then how is that going to help anyone?

    I love Christianity.  It's a beautiful religion of forgiveness and hope when studied in that light.  But this politicizing of religion scares the hell out of me.  And when things are put in the face of Christians to show that they are veering off path of their true goals and letting the political climate of the day (i.e. greed, hatred, hypocrisy, idolatry, condemnation, etc) rule them instead, I begin to fear for them.  I read in someone else's post that money is one of the biggest factors in divorce.  That goes back to greed.  Why should someone get divorced over money?  Why should someone who is a Christian let something that material get in the way of their love for another human being and rip the fabric of their family unit?  Yet Christian's today don't find that a big issue.  They focus instead on things like gays, Muslims, and Christopher Hitchen's latest book.  That is not where the problem lies for Christian's.  The problems lie within.  And these generalities are signs that they are choosing to ignore. 

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  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918

    you believe in generalities as a useful tool to claim something that is true about every single group of people in the world but you believe in their use for when they suit your purposes...if someone said "liberals are a bunch of whiney cry babies who only care about themselves" you would be the first to jump on the "hey don't generalize us like that" bandwagon.  You're a hypocrite to the highest degree and anyone with the mind set that gross generalizations are an effective debate tool isn't even worth time arguing with.

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • War_EagleWar_Eagle Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 472

    Originally posted by Draenor


    you believe in generalities as a useful tool to claim something that is true about every single group of people in the world but you believe in their use for when they suit your purposes...if someone said "liberals are a bunch of whiney cry babies who only care about themselves" you would be the first to jump on the "hey don't generalize us like that" bandwagon.  You're a hypocrite to the highest degree and anyone with the mind set that gross generalizations are an effective debate tool isn't even worth time arguing with.
    If someone said that in general blacks are more prone to sickle cell anemia, would you choose to focus your efforts on Asians?

    And I never said generalities peg every single member in a group.  Show me where I said that. 

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  • Varlok91Varlok91 Member Posts: 396
    Originally posted by Enigma

    Originally posted by Varlok91


    Its letters like these that make Christians all look like extremists.
    I saw they brought up the no sex before marriage rule. To be honest, I don't know anyone who follows that rule anymore.
    I did.  Even before it was a religious conviction for me, I vowed to myself that I would wait until marriage. You need some sort of moral compass or goal to achieve while growing up.
    Divorce has been down played quite a bit nowadays anyway. They won't boot you from the church if you get divorced, at least not from what I have seen.
    As someone brought up in the report, it has nothing to do being conservative/liberal. Its about people getting married young, failure to communicate to work out problems, etc.
    Exactly
     

     

    Just to make myself clear, I do not think that vowing to not have sex before being married is a bad thing. I was just pointing out that it is not followed nearly as much as it used too.

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  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918

    Originally posted by War_Eagle


     
    Originally posted by Draenor


    you believe in generalities as a useful tool to claim something that is true about every single group of people in the world but you believe in their use for when they suit your purposes...if someone said "liberals are a bunch of whiney cry babies who only care about themselves" you would be the first to jump on the "hey don't generalize us like that" bandwagon.  You're a hypocrite to the highest degree and anyone with the mind set that gross generalizations are an effective debate tool isn't even worth time arguing with.
    If someone said that in general blacks are more prone to sickle cell anemia, would you choose to focus your efforts on Asians?

     

    And I never said generalities peg every single member in a group.  Show me where I said that. 

    You're changing the issue now.  The issue is not a medical and observable fact, the issue is an accusation that you made about a particularly abstract and subjective character quality, not a medical condition that can be quantified.

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • arvainisarvainis Member Posts: 548

    LOL Looks like somebody finally figured out that just about everyone on this planet is a hypocrit in one way or another.  Congratulations! You just discovered.....nothing because everyone already knows this.

    "Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves." ~ Ronald Reagan

  • bhagamubhagamu Member Posts: 425

    Originally posted by Draenor


    you believe in generalities as a useful tool to claim something that is true about every single group of people in the world but you believe in their use for when they suit your purposes...if someone said "liberals are a bunch of whiney cry babies who only care about themselves" you would be the first to jump on the "hey don't generalize us like that" bandwagon.  You're a hypocrite to the highest degree and anyone with the mind set that gross generalizations are an effective debate tool isn't even worth time arguing with.

    Sometimes, I think the conservatives just want to chuck all the liberals out of America.

    www.draftgore.com
    Gore '08

  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918
    Originally posted by bhagamu


     
    Originally posted by Draenor


    you believe in generalities as a useful tool to claim something that is true about every single group of people in the world but you believe in their use for when they suit your purposes...if someone said "liberals are a bunch of whiney cry babies who only care about themselves" you would be the first to jump on the "hey don't generalize us like that" bandwagon.  You're a hypocrite to the highest degree and anyone with the mind set that gross generalizations are an effective debate tool isn't even worth time arguing with.

     

    Sometimes, I think the conservatives just want to chuck all the liberals out of America.



    I don't even know why I bother with this forum.

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • modjoe86modjoe86 Member UncommonPosts: 4,050
    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by bhagamu


     
    Originally posted by Draenor


    you believe in generalities as a useful tool to claim something that is true about every single group of people in the world but you believe in their use for when they suit your purposes...if someone said "liberals are a bunch of whiney cry babies who only care about themselves" you would be the first to jump on the "hey don't generalize us like that" bandwagon.  You're a hypocrite to the highest degree and anyone with the mind set that gross generalizations are an effective debate tool isn't even worth time arguing with.

     

    Sometimes, I think the conservatives just want to chuck all the liberals out of America.



    I don't even know why I bother with this forum.

    I'll serve you breakfast in bed....is that not enough, sweetheart?

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  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918
    Originally posted by modjoe86

    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by bhagamu


     
    Originally posted by Draenor


    you believe in generalities as a useful tool to claim something that is true about every single group of people in the world but you believe in their use for when they suit your purposes...if someone said "liberals are a bunch of whiney cry babies who only care about themselves" you would be the first to jump on the "hey don't generalize us like that" bandwagon.  You're a hypocrite to the highest degree and anyone with the mind set that gross generalizations are an effective debate tool isn't even worth time arguing with.

     

    Sometimes, I think the conservatives just want to chuck all the liberals out of America.



    I don't even know why I bother with this forum.

    I'll serve you breakfast in bed....is that not enough, sweetheart?



    Long ago you promised me punch and pie...I have yet to recieve punch or pie.

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • noname12345noname12345 Member Posts: 2,267
    Originally posted by bhagamu


     
     
    Sometimes, I think the conservatives just want to chuck all the liberals out of America.



    Just the bleeding heart socialist-commie liberals.

    ______________________________
    "When Saddam flew that plane into those buildings, I knew it was time to kick some Iranian ass!"
    -cheer leading, flag waving American

  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918
    Originally posted by AlexAmore

    Originally posted by bhagamu


     
     
    Sometimes, I think the conservatives just want to chuck all the liberals out of America.



    Just the bleeding heart socialist-commie liberals.



    So basically...all the democrat liberals?

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • frodusfrodus Member Posts: 2,396
    Originally posted by AlexAmore

    Originally posted by bhagamu


     
     
    Sometimes, I think the conservatives just want to chuck all the liberals out of America.



    Just the bleeding heart socialist-commie liberals.



    hahahaha cuba is nice this time of year i here...

    Trade in material assumptions for spiritual facts and make permanent progress.

  • bhagamubhagamu Member Posts: 425
    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by AlexAmore

    Originally posted by bhagamu


     
     
    Sometimes, I think the conservatives just want to chuck all the liberals out of America.



    Just the bleeding heart socialist-commie liberals.



    So basically...all the democrat liberals?

    Right, like I said, my countrymen want to throw people like me out of the country; it sort of sucks.

    www.draftgore.com
    Gore '08

  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918

    Originally posted by bhagamu

    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by AlexAmore

    Originally posted by bhagamu


     
     
    Sometimes, I think the conservatives just want to chuck all the liberals out of America.



    Just the bleeding heart socialist-commie liberals.



    So basically...all the democrat liberals?

    Right, like I said, my countrymen want to throw people like me out of the country; it sort of sucks.


    The same goes for your side wanting to throw out the repubs...fortunately they are at least smart enough to know that without republicans in this country, the democrats would have nobody to bad mouth, and people would instead look at their policies (in place of the constant Bush bashing)...which would in turn cause people to realize that Democrats are useless...so you really can't win with the left 

    Oh, and the Daily Show would instantly run out of material.

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • bhagamubhagamu Member Posts: 425

     

    Originally posted by Draenor


     


    The same goes for your side wanting to throw out the repubs...fortunately they are at least smart enough to know that without republicans in this country, the democrats would have nobody to bad mouth, and people would instead look at their policies (in place of the constant Bush bashing)...which would in turn cause people to realize that Democrats are useless...so you really can't win with the left 
     
    Oh, and the Daily Show would instantly run out of material.

     

    Oh, now that makes perfect sense. I don't want to throw out conservatives and Republicans, and that has nothing to do with the presence of another side to "bad mouth". I respect a lot of people on the right, but I maintain that they are wrong. I expressed my fear of a divided country, and you responded with "Democrats are useless". That kind of response is upsetting.

    If Democrats want to throw Republicans and conservatives out of the country (which they don't), then that's disgraceful; that's not what being a liberal is about.

    The Daily Show's material comes from lampooning the craziness of the political system, even though Jon Stewart is himself a liberal.

    www.draftgore.com
    Gore '08

  • War_EagleWar_Eagle Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 472

    Originally posted by Draenor


     
    Originally posted by War_Eagle


     
    Originally posted by Draenor


    you believe in generalities as a useful tool to claim something that is true about every single group of people in the world but you believe in their use for when they suit your purposes...if someone said "liberals are a bunch of whiney cry babies who only care about themselves" you would be the first to jump on the "hey don't generalize us like that" bandwagon.  You're a hypocrite to the highest degree and anyone with the mind set that gross generalizations are an effective debate tool isn't even worth time arguing with.
    If someone said that in general blacks are more prone to sickle cell anemia, would you choose to focus your efforts on Asians?

     

    And I never said generalities peg every single member in a group.  Show me where I said that. 

     

    You're changing the issue now.  The issue is not a medical and observable fact, the issue is an accusation that you made about a particularly abstract and subjective character quality, not a medical condition that can be quantified.

    Using an analogy is not changing the issue.  And statistics can be quantified.  By definition they carry with them a quantifiable characteristic.

    And btw, you chose to ignore my second sentence.  Show me where I said that generalities peg every single member of a group.  What I said was that they are useful tools in the same vein as statistical data.  Generalities are useful in showing where a problem is greatest. 

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  • War_EagleWar_Eagle Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 472
    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by AlexAmore

    Originally posted by bhagamu


     
     
    Sometimes, I think the conservatives just want to chuck all the liberals out of America.



    Just the bleeding heart socialist-commie liberals.



    So basically...all the democrat liberals?

    Isn't that a generality?

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  • War_EagleWar_Eagle Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 472
    Originally posted by Draenor


     
    Originally posted by bhagamu

    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by AlexAmore

    Originally posted by bhagamu


     
     
    Sometimes, I think the conservatives just want to chuck all the liberals out of America.



    Just the bleeding heart socialist-commie liberals.



    So basically...all the democrat liberals?

    Right, like I said, my countrymen want to throw people like me out of the country; it sort of sucks.


    The same goes for your side wanting to throw out the repubs...fortunately they are at least smart enough to know that without republicans in this country, the democrats would have nobody to bad mouth, and people would instead look at their policies (in place of the constant Bush bashing)...which would in turn cause people to realize that Democrats are useless...so you really can't win with the left 

     

    Oh, and the Daily Show would instantly run out of material.

    You're making a general statement.  There are some Democrats who do not bad mouth.  So, you're statement (by your own definition) is false.

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  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918

    Originally posted by War_Eagle


     
    Originally posted by Draenor


     
    Originally posted by War_Eagle


     
    Originally posted by Draenor


    you believe in generalities as a useful tool to claim something that is true about every single group of people in the world but you believe in their use for when they suit your purposes...if someone said "liberals are a bunch of whiney cry babies who only care about themselves" you would be the first to jump on the "hey don't generalize us like that" bandwagon.  You're a hypocrite to the highest degree and anyone with the mind set that gross generalizations are an effective debate tool isn't even worth time arguing with.
    If someone said that in general blacks are more prone to sickle cell anemia, would you choose to focus your efforts on Asians?

     

    And I never said generalities peg every single member in a group.  Show me where I said that. 

     

    You're changing the issue now.  The issue is not a medical and observable fact, the issue is an accusation that you made about a particularly abstract and subjective character quality, not a medical condition that can be quantified.

    Using an analogy is not changing the issue.  And statistics can be quantified.  By definition they carry with them a quantifiable characteristic.

     

    And btw, you chose to ignore my second sentence.  Show me where I said that generalities peg every single member of a group.  What I said was that they are useful tools in the same vein as statistical data.  Generalities are useful in showing where a problem is greatest. 


    Using an analogy that over simplifies something and has little in common with the actual event that you're trying to refer to does nothing but make me think you don't know how to make a proper analogy.  An analogy shouldn't be something that is fundamentally different than what you are trying to argue about, and yours was.

    I didn't choose to ignore anything, I adressed your love of generalities and told you why it's not going to get you anywhere in an intelligent debate.

    PS.  If you're getting your panties up in a wad about my comments on liberal democrats in this country then you need to lighten up.  Am I suddenly the only one on this forum who isn't allowed to analyze something and then go intentionally overboard in my estimation of it?  Oh I forgot, that's something only the liberals are allowed to do right?  Generalities are fun and useful!  Give me a break you bunch of hypocrites, thanks for proving me right.

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

  • DraenorDraenor Member UncommonPosts: 7,918

    Originally posted by War_Eagle

    Originally posted by Draenor


     
    Originally posted by bhagamu

    Originally posted by Draenor

    Originally posted by AlexAmore

    Originally posted by bhagamu


     
     
    Sometimes, I think the conservatives just want to chuck all the liberals out of America.



    Just the bleeding heart socialist-commie liberals.



    So basically...all the democrat liberals?

    Right, like I said, my countrymen want to throw people like me out of the country; it sort of sucks.


    The same goes for your side wanting to throw out the repubs...fortunately they are at least smart enough to know that without republicans in this country, the democrats would have nobody to bad mouth, and people would instead look at their policies (in place of the constant Bush bashing)...which would in turn cause people to realize that Democrats are useless...so you really can't win with the left 

     

    Oh, and the Daily Show would instantly run out of material.

    You're making a general statement.  There are some Democrats who do not bad mouth.  So, you're statement (by your own definition) is false.

    hypocrite.

    Thanks for proving my point...you don't like when generalities are thrown at you, but when you're the one using them, they are all fine and dandy, even a "useful tool"!!.  You lose, thank you and please don't come again, you bore me.

    Your argument is like a two legged dog with an eating disorder...weak and unbalanced.

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