TOtally off topic so sorry OP, but you egged it on! Plus being a kid doc it's a pet peeve of course.
Just because "everyone does it" does not make bottle propping acceptable. There are many hazards and health risks associated with bottle propping and I promise you no child health expert reccommends it. I found lots of ok websites detailing the dangers but this one was the most concise.
This is not a personal attack on you by any means, just have to stop the misinformation that just because alot of people do it, that means it must be ok.
There are small openings in the back of our throats that lead to our ears, and though those of babies are shorter, wider, and more flat. When a baby is fed by a propped bottle the liquid pools in the back of her mouth, and the bacteria can then enter her ear and cause an infection. This can lead to hearing loss which will result in difficulty learning to speak and learn. Add this to the increased likelihood that goes along with feeding your baby formula instead of breastmilk, and you're taking a serious risk.
Choking is another very real possibility. Parents usually do not provide the same amount of supervision when a bottle is propped than they do when they are holding the baby and the bottle. Liquid can keep flowing from the nipple, even if she is not sucking. Even a sleeping babe can accidently breathe in the liquid instead of swallowing. Lying down makes it even more likely that the liquid will go down the trachea instead of the esophagus.
This practice also can also lead to tooth decay, as liquid gathers in a baby's mouth when the bottle is propped. Baby teeth are important because they guide the permanent teeth. Bottle propping can lead to a child needing serious and expensive dental work by the time he or she is weaned.
I am a parent of 3 and have been married for 22 years and I am a gamer.
To the OP, I do belong to a gaming clan (for the last 10 years) but do not hold a leadership slot as I do not have the time.
Before I continue, I do want to say the same thing I did to my kids and their friends. Computer games are for Old married people, kids and singles should be out experiencing life. Once you are married with children you no longer have the luxury to just ignore all your responsibilities. I would point to all the pictures in the albums and tell the kids, Here I am horseback riding, white water rafting, spelunking and free climbing, here is when me and my buddies took a summer off and road our motorcycles down to see the Aztec Ruins at Mexico City, here is when I was dirt track racing, this is me rebuilding one of my race cars, here is when I was qualifying for my single prop pilots license,,, etc… The point being that there is a whole world to explore while you are young; once you get married the responsibilities no longer permit you to do so and once you have kids you might as well kiss all your freedom good by.
Once your old, married and have children the only world(s) you can explore are virtual and forget things like hang gliding, repelling or base jumping, you can’t afford the insurance unless these activities are virtual also, not to mention things actually hurt now. I used to play full contact football but nowadays a game of flag football will require a full day to recuperate, on the other hand I can jump from a building onto a tank plant C4 and rocket jump back up without breaking a sweat in BF2. Which is the main reason I play, to do things I can no longer (or would ever) do.
Back to the topic.
What are you, the parents and adults with real responsibility doing to keep your MMORPG's you play interesting?
I give myself an allowance of $40 a month to pay for my game play. This goes into an account that is only used for my gaming, to pay for both my monthly subs and any new game purchase. Now with this I will play 2 to 3 different games depending on the sub cost. I will then rotate the P2P games on my list for 2-3 months at a time. This allows me to never completely get board with a game as I do not play to lvl but am playing to enjoy the game and my clan/guild mates.
How much do you typically play per day/week?
I typically play 4-6 hours a day and 8 hours on the weekend. Now while this may sound like a lot of time I will explain in a bit.
What other things do you do in life that takes up the time you could be playing MMORPGs, other than work and taking care of your children?
There is nothing else I do anymore that I can afford to do, that is I am a gamer which means that I am not a spectator. If I am not doing it I am not interested in watching it. Therefore I do not watch sports, other than a few TV shows (Psyched, Daily Show, How I met your mom, How it’s made-history channel) I do not watch general TV. And who can afford to take a family to the movies anymore
What games do you play, that are friendly for your play habits? What type of MMORPG appeals to you? Some like sandboxes; some story/quest driven; and others a combination of both. Are you a group gamer or a soloist? Do you participate in guilds and their events? How serious are those guilds? Very structured or very unstructured? If you are one of those that barely play and are in a guild that barely plays, how does that work out for you?
I will try almost any and all games. Now as to what games work with my schedule, well I used to do a guys night out game night playing everything from BT or MTG to poker but when my daughter was born I needed to give her breathing treatments at 10 pm and 2 am (the wife did the others). Fearing to sleep and not wake up in time to give her the treatment I started playing games from 9 pm to 2 am. I worked from 7:00 am to 4:30 pm so over the years I got used to 4 hours of sleep. Because I had to stop for 30 min at 10 pm and at 2:00am I played games like CS, BF2 and MMOs that I could stop anytime, this meant no raids. While I do enjoy helping with guild activities I can not be more than a semi active member as the main reason I was playing was to pass the time between my daughter’s treatments. That is why I am more interested in stuff such as crafting then leveling in a game so an unstructured clan in game works better for me.
As I said I am a gamer, I used to have a 8 system game LAN and game night at my house meant the kids, a few buddies and I playing co op in Duke or PVP in SS/MW4. Now that my kids are teenagers I only run a 4 LAN game room (xbox360, playstation and Game cube) because I buy the kids lasertag, paintball, softair equipment as well as basket, football, soccer and other equipment and kick them out the door telling them “Go out side and play, these games are for people who are married with children”
Ps, I tried playing paintball with the kids once... once was enough, especally since that entire group has a habbit of going for groin shots. I'll take a FPS anything to the head over a paintball to the body anytime.
It actually does only take about a min. or two to prop up a bottle on some pillows and etc. for your baby.
That is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Who the hell props the bottle? Feeding time with your baby is supposed to be a bonding time. That is just sickening and pathetic that someone would do that.
I don't know if you are a parent or not Dekron, but every person that I've know with babies has used this technique. Especially to help them go to sleep again. It's not used all of the time, but when you have things to get done, it sure as hell works. I haven't insulted you are bashed the way you do things and I find your tone very offensive. My child is healthy, smart, and happy. He loves to learn, I love to teach, and he never is wanting for anything. So please keep your tone down or I will report you for flame-baiting. Not everyone in the world shares your views on things. This is a hard lesson I have had to learn myself.
Thank you
Yes, I am a parent. I have three kids, one of them a newborn. It is completely irresponsible, plus dangerous for the baby. Maybe you should read about how babies can get severe ear infections by doing what you were describing. You can read about "propping the bottle" in any parenting book. It can also be defined as neglect. But you know, I am sure you have more important things to do than properly feed your baby.
And please, find a definition for flame-baiting and see if my response falls under that category. I could say the same for your post as it is ridiculous enough to get someone to flame your actions. No matter how you defend yourself, propping the bottle is poor parenting.
It actually does only take about a min. or two to prop up a bottle on some pillows and etc. for your baby.
That is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Who the hell props the bottle? Feeding time with your baby is supposed to be a bonding time. That is just sickening and pathetic that someone would do that.
I don't know if you are a parent or not Dekron, but every person that I've know with babies has used this technique. Especially to help them go to sleep again. It's not used all of the time, but when you have things to get done, it sure as hell works. I haven't insulted you are bashed the way you do things and I find your tone very offensive. My child is healthy, smart, and happy. He loves to learn, I love to teach, and he never is wanting for anything. So please keep your tone down or I will report you for flame-baiting. Not everyone in the world shares your views on things. This is a hard lesson I have had to learn myself.
Thank you
Yes, I am a parent. I have three kids, one of them a newborn. It is completely irresponsible, plus dangerous for the baby. Maybe you should read about how babies can get severe ear infections by doing what you were describing. You can read about "propping the bottle" in any parenting book. It can also be defined as neglect. But you know, I am sure you have more important things to do than properly feed your baby.
And please, find a definition for flame-baiting and see if my response falls under that category. I could say the same for your post as it is ridiculous enough to get someone to flame your actions. No matter how you defend yourself, propping the bottle is poor parenting.
I tend to agree with Dekron.
When you're talking about the most formative years of a child's life, they deserve to have as much time as possible with the parent to bond and learn from them. Even hearing a parents voice begins to teach them to recognize sounds that they soon begin to copy. Plus, holding a child lends more to their emotional development than leaving them in a crib. It's been proven that children who are cuddled and held develop cognitively and emotionally better.
My mom used to read to me all the time when I was little. When I entered the 1st grade, I already knew how to read. I was in the 1st grade for a whole 3 weeks before they moved me on to 2nd grade. All that was because my mom spent that time with me. Also, my dad worked all day, but when he got home we were practically attached until it was bedtime. Nearly every picture of me and my dad is of him in his uniform. He didn't even take the time to change before he was in the chair holding me and rocking me and talking to me.
Games are fun, I understand that. But you had a child and that was a choice. And especially when they are infants and toddler age you need to be holding them and bonding and teaching them every chance you have. It's only for a few years that they are of that age, so it's not like you are sacrificing your whole life.
I think a parent who wants the absolute best for their kid would spend that time with them. Maybe when they are older you can pick up gaming again, even let them play along with you. But the responsible thing to do is understand your priorities. That child didn't ask to come here, you chose to bring him here.
It actually does only take about a min. or two to prop up a bottle on some pillows and etc. for your baby.
That is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Who the hell props the bottle? Feeding time with your baby is supposed to be a bonding time. That is just sickening and pathetic that someone would do that.
I don't know if you are a parent or not Dekron, but every person that I've know with babies has used this technique. Especially to help them go to sleep again. It's not used all of the time, but when you have things to get done, it sure as hell works. I haven't insulted you are bashed the way you do things and I find your tone very offensive. My child is healthy, smart, and happy. He loves to learn, I love to teach, and he never is wanting for anything. So please keep your tone down or I will report you for flame-baiting. Not everyone in the world shares your views on things. This is a hard lesson I have had to learn myself.
Thank you
Yes, I am a parent. I have three kids, one of them a newborn. It is completely irresponsible, plus dangerous for the baby. Maybe you should read about how babies can get severe ear infections by doing what you were describing. You can read about "propping the bottle" in any parenting book. It can also be defined as neglect. But you know, I am sure you have more important things to do than properly feed your baby.
And please, find a definition for flame-baiting and see if my response falls under that category. I could say the same for your post as it is ridiculous enough to get someone to flame your actions. No matter how you defend yourself, propping the bottle is poor parenting.
It actually does only take about a min. or two to prop up a bottle on some pillows and etc. for your baby.
That is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Who the hell props the bottle? Feeding time with your baby is supposed to be a bonding time. That is just sickening and pathetic that someone would do that.
I don't know if you are a parent or not Dekron, but every person that I've know with babies has used this technique. Especially to help them go to sleep again. It's not used all of the time, but when you have things to get done, it sure as hell works. I haven't insulted you are bashed the way you do things and I find your tone very offensive. My child is healthy, smart, and happy. He loves to learn, I love to teach, and he never is wanting for anything. So please keep your tone down or I will report you for flame-baiting. Not everyone in the world shares your views on things. This is a hard lesson I have had to learn myself.
Thank you
Yes, I am a parent. I have three kids, one of them a newborn. It is completely irresponsible, plus dangerous for the baby. Maybe you should read about how babies can get severe ear infections by doing what you were describing. You can read about "propping the bottle" in any parenting book. It can also be defined as neglect. But you know, I am sure you have more important things to do than properly feed your baby.
And please, find a definition for flame-baiting and see if my response falls under that category. I could say the same for your post as it is ridiculous enough to get someone to flame your actions. No matter how you defend yourself, propping the bottle is poor parenting.
Asa parent of a young child/children you surely CAN play mmorpg's.Only difference is you'll never be the die hard gamer again who had the highest level with the best weapons and all the ingame wisdom.With some luck you'll be the mediocre gamer....at least IF you take time out for the kids.For me works perfectly , and like the OP mentioned i am also one of those gamers who only plays mmorpgs and needs to have at least one sub running.
Try playing a board game with your kids who are most likely hooked on the computer game and not on the "parent-kid bonding" that you think is taking place. If they enjoy other activities besides the computer with you then no harm done but most likely your kids will complain or be bored playing a 2 hour game of Monopoly on the kitchen table. My parents left the Atari etc to me and my siblings and played board games with us which was a totally different experience. Playing Monopoly for example is a physical bonding experience unlike MMO's which are not even close. How much physical interaction do you and your kids get while playing the MMO? I'll bet little to none even if you are sitting on 2 computers in the same room. Since the child is quiet and happy while playing an MMO I think parents get a very false sense of accomplishment but hey it's your standards not mine. mmodads.com makes me laugh.
Well I am/was an MMO Dad until I realized that the MMO market has turned into a cess pit, with a vulgar stench of stagnation. I started working out and doing boxing again instead of playing MMOS, it's actually about the same cost for the Gym per month as it is for a monthly sub to craptastic online. The gym also has a sauna, hot and cold jaccuzui and lots of hot women in lycra shorts sweating everywhere.
My beer gut has gone (atleast I don't look 3 months pregnant anymore!) and I feel I'm spending my time better as my son comes straight to the gym after school as they have a room with cable TV and a TV that takes up one large wall. I play BF: 2142 when I get home as I have neither the time nor patience to play an MMO grindathon anymore.
That's my soloution anyway.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
It actually does only take about a min. or two to prop up a bottle on some pillows and etc. for your baby.
That is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Who the hell props the bottle? Feeding time with your baby is supposed to be a bonding time. That is just sickening and pathetic that someone would do that.
I don't know if you are a parent or not Dekron, but every person that I've know with babies has used this technique. Especially to help them go to sleep again. It's not used all of the time, but when you have things to get done, it sure as hell works. I haven't insulted you are bashed the way you do things and I find your tone very offensive. My child is healthy, smart, and happy. He loves to learn, I love to teach, and he never is wanting for anything. So please keep your tone down or I will report you for flame-baiting. Not everyone in the world shares your views on things. This is a hard lesson I have had to learn myself.
Thank you
Yes, I am a parent. I have three kids, one of them a newborn. It is completely irresponsible, plus dangerous for the baby. Maybe you should read about how babies can get severe ear infections by doing what you were describing. You can read about "propping the bottle" in any parenting book. It can also be defined as neglect. But you know, I am sure you have more important things to do than properly feed your baby.
And please, find a definition for flame-baiting and see if my response falls under that category. I could say the same for your post as it is ridiculous enough to get someone to flame your actions. No matter how you defend yourself, propping the bottle is poor parenting.
I'm getting a bit tired of this discussion. Attacking or judging people by their parenting habits is like calling the kettle black. I guarantee that I could go over anyones house and pick out something I think is bad parenting. Anyhow, I never said I propped a bottle for my baby. I just said I know people who have done it. You're assuming because I defend it, I do it. No, I defend it because I know plenty of people who have done it and nothing bad happened like you claim. The government also says that we shouldn't punish our kids, so I take it that you don't punsih your kids now? I didn't even play MMORPGs really when my son was an infant. I was always deployed or out in the field in the Marine Corps. When I got hope I loved watching, holding, and feeding my son, because I hardly got to see him. MMORPG gaming really didn't start for me until after I got out of the Marine Corps.
Anyways, this thread isn't for judging other peoples parenting habits. Doing so makes you off-topic, which is a reportable offense. There is a reason why I didn't include parenting habits as part of my discussion, and that is because it leads to arguing and fighting. Both of which we have enough of from other threads. So please keep your opinions about other peoples parenting to yourself.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Well I am/was an MMO Dad until I realized that the MMO market has turned into a cess pit, with a vulgar stench of stagnation. I started working out and doing boxing again instead of playing MMOS, it's actually about the same cost for the Gym per month as it is for a monthly sub to craptastic online. The gym also has a sauna, hot and cold jaccuzui and lots of hot women in lycra shorts sweating everywhere. My beer gut has gone (atleast I don't look 3 months pregnant anymore!) and I feel I'm spending my time better as my son comes straight to the gym after school as they have a room with cable TV and a TV that takes up one large wall. I play BF: 2142 when I get home as I have neither the time nor patience to play an MMO grindathon anymore. That's my soloution anyway.
You do know that you can go to the gym and play MMOs, right? I for one go to the gym several times a week, so that I can stay in shape and be better at my job when I get into law enforcement.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Well I am/was an MMO Dad until I realized that the MMO market has turned into a cess pit, with a vulgar stench of stagnation. I started working out and doing boxing again instead of playing MMOS, it's actually about the same cost for the Gym per month as it is for a monthly sub to craptastic online. The gym also has a sauna, hot and cold jaccuzui and lots of hot women in lycra shorts sweating everywhere. My beer gut has gone (atleast I don't look 3 months pregnant anymore!) and I feel I'm spending my time better as my son comes straight to the gym after school as they have a room with cable TV and a TV that takes up one large wall. I play BF: 2142 when I get home as I have neither the time nor patience to play an MMO grindathon anymore. That's my soloution anyway.
You do know that you can go to the gym and play MMOs, right? I for one go to the gym several times a week, so that I can stay in shape and be better at my job when I get into law enforcement.
Sure but I find that the current market for MMORPGs is pretty bleak (in my opinion) and I just don't have the energy to workout five days a week and dedicate the time needed to play an MMO (in my opinion). If there was an MMO that really suited me then I'd play it as well, but MMOs are too heavy on the solo grindathon and the button mashing rock/paper/scissors game that is PvP.
I play BF: 2142 as a good FPS feels like entertainment, whereas most MMOs feel more like an obligation than fun, and as a father I have enough obligations without subscribing to another over the internet!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Originally posted by JK-Kanosi Throw in any other input you feel would make this more interesting.
Bad parenting is not off-topic according to this quote of yours. And yes, you did highly imply you propped the bottle. Plus, disciplining your children is one thing, negligence is another.
I choose to throw this in as my input to make it more interesting. But, fine, I will stop discussing your wonderful parenting skills.
Well I am/was an MMO Dad until I realized that the MMO market has turned into a cess pit, with a vulgar stench of stagnation. I started working out and doing boxing again instead of playing MMOS, it's actually about the same cost for the Gym per month as it is for a monthly sub to craptastic online. The gym also has a sauna, hot and cold jaccuzui and lots of hot women in lycra shorts sweating everywhere. My beer gut has gone (atleast I don't look 3 months pregnant anymore!) and I feel I'm spending my time better as my son comes straight to the gym after school as they have a room with cable TV and a TV that takes up one large wall. I play BF: 2142 when I get home as I have neither the time nor patience to play an MMO grindathon anymore. That's my soloution anyway.
You do know that you can go to the gym and play MMOs, right? I for one go to the gym several times a week, so that I can stay in shape and be better at my job when I get into law enforcement.
Sure but I find that the current market for MMORPGs is pretty bleak (in my opinion) and I just don't have the energy to workout five days a week and dedicate the time needed to play an MMO (in my opinion). If there was an MMO that really suited me then I'd play it as well, but MMOs are too heavy on the solo grindathon and the button mashing rock/paper/scissors game that is PvP.
I play BF: 2142 as a good FPS feels like entertainment, whereas most MMOs feel more like an obligation than fun, and as a father I have enough obligations without subscribing to another over the internet!
Haha, I understand. At least you found yourself a game to play. That's probably more than a lot of people on this website.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Originally posted by JK-Kanosi Throw in any other input you feel would make this more interesting.
Bad parenting is not off-topic according to this quote of yours. And yes, you did highly imply you propped the bottle. Plus, disciplining your children is one thing, negligence is another.
I choose to throw this in as my input to make it more interesting. But, fine, I will stop discussing your wonderful parenting skills.
Thank you. I should be a no brainer that judging another person's parenting would lead to fights and arguments. I have no idea why you would want to cause grief to another person, but I feel there is enough grief in other threads. Arguments over how to properly be a parent is as old as time itself. We all have different views on how to raise children and no amount of talk from a white coat will change that. I'm sure they did do their research and probably found a link to ear infections and bottle propping, but those same types of people also found a link between humans and apes. I'm sorry, but I choose to go by my experience and people I know and trust over some guy that gets paid to publish what he thinks. This tid bit of information has enlightened me though to some of the risks, so I would advise others to stay away from bottle propping, but you should know that not everyone buys parenting magazines or books. Some of us use what was passed down to us from our parents. Parenting isn't a science. The only way you know if you did a good job or not is at the end, when they are all grown up. If your child is healthy, has good morals and values, is respectful towards others, and has love for learning that will get him ahead in life, then I think that parent did a good job. Regardless if they propped a bottle or played MMORPGs.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Originally posted by JK-Kanosi Throw in any other input you feel would make this more interesting.
Bad parenting is not off-topic according to this quote of yours. And yes, you did highly imply you propped the bottle. Plus, disciplining your children is one thing, negligence is another.
I choose to throw this in as my input to make it more interesting. But, fine, I will stop discussing your wonderful parenting skills.
Come one give the guy a brake.He clearly stated that he did not mean it in a harsh way.He clearly stated he loved time with the kids.I dunno why you come on so strongly about this towards him.How can you judge his parenting skills if you don't know anything about him.He responded in a nice and polite way....if you are such a good parent as you clearly state then surely you teach your kids to "communitcate" wich other in an appropriate way?Not meant as flame in any way but i think he's getting more thrown at him then he deserves.
Originally posted by JK-Kanosi Throw in any other input you feel would make this more interesting.
Bad parenting is not off-topic according to this quote of yours. And yes, you did highly imply you propped the bottle. Plus, disciplining your children is one thing, negligence is another.
I choose to throw this in as my input to make it more interesting. But, fine, I will stop discussing your wonderful parenting skills.
Come one give the guy a brake.He clearly stated that he did not mean it in a harsh way.He clearly stated he loved time with the kids.I dunno why you come on so strongly about this towards him.How can you judge his parenting skills if you don't know anything about him.He responded in a nice and polite way....if you are such a good parent as you clearly state then surely you teach your kids to "communitcate" wich other in an appropriate way?Not meant as flame in any way but i think he's getting more thrown at him then he deserves.
Comments
TOtally off topic so sorry OP, but you egged it on! Plus being a kid doc it's a pet peeve of course.
Just because "everyone does it" does not make bottle propping acceptable. There are many hazards and health risks associated with bottle propping and I promise you no child health expert reccommends it. I found lots of ok websites detailing the dangers but this one was the most concise.
This is not a personal attack on you by any means, just have to stop the misinformation that just because alot of people do it, that means it must be ok.
From the following website:
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/126247/the_dangers_of_bottlepropping.html
There are small openings in the back of our throats that lead to our ears, and though those of babies are shorter, wider, and more flat. When a baby is fed by a propped bottle the liquid pools in the back of her mouth, and the bacteria can then enter her ear and cause an infection. This can lead to hearing loss which will result in difficulty learning to speak and learn. Add this to the increased likelihood that goes along with feeding your baby formula instead of breastmilk, and you're taking a serious risk.
Choking is another very real possibility. Parents usually do not provide the same amount of supervision when a bottle is propped than they do when they are holding the baby and the bottle. Liquid can keep flowing from the nipple, even if she is not sucking. Even a sleeping babe can accidently breathe in the liquid instead of swallowing. Lying down makes it even more likely that the liquid will go down the trachea instead of the esophagus.
This practice also can also lead to tooth decay, as liquid gathers in a baby's mouth when the bottle is propped. Baby teeth are important because they guide the permanent teeth. Bottle propping can lead to a child needing serious and expensive dental work by the time he or she is weaned.
I am a parent of 3 and have been married for 22 years and I am a gamer.
To the OP, I do belong to a gaming clan (for the last 10 years) but do not hold a leadership slot as I do not have the time.
Before I continue, I do want to say the same thing I did to my kids and their friends. Computer games are for Old married people, kids and singles should be out experiencing life. Once you are married with children you no longer have the luxury to just ignore all your responsibilities. I would point to all the pictures in the albums and tell the kids, Here I am horseback riding, white water rafting, spelunking and free climbing, here is when me and my buddies took a summer off and road our motorcycles down to see the Aztec Ruins at Mexico City, here is when I was dirt track racing, this is me rebuilding one of my race cars, here is when I was qualifying for my single prop pilots license,,, etc… The point being that there is a whole world to explore while you are young; once you get married the responsibilities no longer permit you to do so and once you have kids you might as well kiss all your freedom good by.
Once your old, married and have children the only world(s) you can explore are virtual and forget things like hang gliding, repelling or base jumping, you can’t afford the insurance unless these activities are virtual also, not to mention things actually hurt now. I used to play full contact football but nowadays a game of flag football will require a full day to recuperate, on the other hand I can jump from a building onto a tank plant C4 and rocket jump back up without breaking a sweat in BF2. Which is the main reason I play, to do things I can no longer (or would ever) do.
Back to the topic.
What are you, the parents and adults with real responsibility doing to keep your MMORPG's you play interesting?
I give myself an allowance of $40 a month to pay for my game play. This goes into an account that is only used for my gaming, to pay for both my monthly subs and any new game purchase. Now with this I will play 2 to 3 different games depending on the sub cost. I will then rotate the P2P games on my list for 2-3 months at a time. This allows me to never completely get board with a game as I do not play to lvl but am playing to enjoy the game and my clan/guild mates.
How much do you typically play per day/week?
I typically play 4-6 hours a day and 8 hours on the weekend. Now while this may sound like a lot of time I will explain in a bit.
What other things do you do in life that takes up the time you could be playing MMORPGs, other than work and taking care of your children?
There is nothing else I do anymore that I can afford to do, that is I am a gamer which means that I am not a spectator. If I am not doing it I am not interested in watching it. Therefore I do not watch sports, other than a few TV shows (Psyched, Daily Show, How I met your mom, How it’s made-history channel) I do not watch general TV. And who can afford to take a family to the movies anymore
What games do you play, that are friendly for your play habits? What type of MMORPG appeals to you? Some like sandboxes; some story/quest driven; and others a combination of both. Are you a group gamer or a soloist? Do you participate in guilds and their events? How serious are those guilds? Very structured or very unstructured? If you are one of those that barely play and are in a guild that barely plays, how does that work out for you?
I will try almost any and all games. Now as to what games work with my schedule, well I used to do a guys night out game night playing everything from BT or MTG to poker but when my daughter was born I needed to give her breathing treatments at 10 pm and 2 am (the wife did the others). Fearing to sleep and not wake up in time to give her the treatment I started playing games from 9 pm to 2 am. I worked from 7:00 am to 4:30 pm so over the years I got used to 4 hours of sleep. Because I had to stop for 30 min at 10 pm and at 2:00am I played games like CS, BF2 and MMOs that I could stop anytime, this meant no raids. While I do enjoy helping with guild activities I can not be more than a semi active member as the main reason I was playing was to pass the time between my daughter’s treatments. That is why I am more interested in stuff such as crafting then leveling in a game so an unstructured clan in game works better for me.
As I said I am a gamer, I used to have a 8 system game LAN and game night at my house meant the kids, a few buddies and I playing co op in Duke or PVP in SS/MW4. Now that my kids are teenagers I only run a 4 LAN game room (xbox360, playstation and Game cube) because I buy the kids lasertag, paintball, softair equipment as well as basket, football, soccer and other equipment and kick them out the door telling them “Go out side and play, these games are for people who are married with children”
Ps, I tried playing paintball with the kids once... once was enough, especally since that entire group has a habbit of going for groin shots.
I'll take a FPS anything to the head over a paintball to the body anytime.
An so it begins
Take the Magic: The Gathering 'What Color Are You?' Quiz.[/CENTER]
Over at mmodads.com we have many discussions on this topic.
Come on over, it might help with your lifestyle.
That is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Who the hell props the bottle? Feeding time with your baby is supposed to be a bonding time. That is just sickening and pathetic that someone would do that.
I don't know if you are a parent or not Dekron, but every person that I've know with babies has used this technique. Especially to help them go to sleep again. It's not used all of the time, but when you have things to get done, it sure as hell works. I haven't insulted you are bashed the way you do things and I find your tone very offensive. My child is healthy, smart, and happy. He loves to learn, I love to teach, and he never is wanting for anything. So please keep your tone down or I will report you for flame-baiting. Not everyone in the world shares your views on things. This is a hard lesson I have had to learn myself.
Thank you
Yes, I am a parent. I have three kids, one of them a newborn. It is completely irresponsible, plus dangerous for the baby. Maybe you should read about how babies can get severe ear infections by doing what you were describing. You can read about "propping the bottle" in any parenting book. It can also be defined as neglect. But you know, I am sure you have more important things to do than properly feed your baby.
And please, find a definition for flame-baiting and see if my response falls under that category. I could say the same for your post as it is ridiculous enough to get someone to flame your actions. No matter how you defend yourself, propping the bottle is poor parenting.
That is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Who the hell props the bottle? Feeding time with your baby is supposed to be a bonding time. That is just sickening and pathetic that someone would do that.
I don't know if you are a parent or not Dekron, but every person that I've know with babies has used this technique. Especially to help them go to sleep again. It's not used all of the time, but when you have things to get done, it sure as hell works. I haven't insulted you are bashed the way you do things and I find your tone very offensive. My child is healthy, smart, and happy. He loves to learn, I love to teach, and he never is wanting for anything. So please keep your tone down or I will report you for flame-baiting. Not everyone in the world shares your views on things. This is a hard lesson I have had to learn myself.
Thank you
Yes, I am a parent. I have three kids, one of them a newborn. It is completely irresponsible, plus dangerous for the baby. Maybe you should read about how babies can get severe ear infections by doing what you were describing. You can read about "propping the bottle" in any parenting book. It can also be defined as neglect. But you know, I am sure you have more important things to do than properly feed your baby.
And please, find a definition for flame-baiting and see if my response falls under that category. I could say the same for your post as it is ridiculous enough to get someone to flame your actions. No matter how you defend yourself, propping the bottle is poor parenting.
I tend to agree with Dekron.When you're talking about the most formative years of a child's life, they deserve to have as much time as possible with the parent to bond and learn from them. Even hearing a parents voice begins to teach them to recognize sounds that they soon begin to copy. Plus, holding a child lends more to their emotional development than leaving them in a crib. It's been proven that children who are cuddled and held develop cognitively and emotionally better.
My mom used to read to me all the time when I was little. When I entered the 1st grade, I already knew how to read. I was in the 1st grade for a whole 3 weeks before they moved me on to 2nd grade. All that was because my mom spent that time with me. Also, my dad worked all day, but when he got home we were practically attached until it was bedtime. Nearly every picture of me and my dad is of him in his uniform. He didn't even take the time to change before he was in the chair holding me and rocking me and talking to me.
Games are fun, I understand that. But you had a child and that was a choice. And especially when they are infants and toddler age you need to be holding them and bonding and teaching them every chance you have. It's only for a few years that they are of that age, so it's not like you are sacrificing your whole life.
I think a parent who wants the absolute best for their kid would spend that time with them. Maybe when they are older you can pick up gaming again, even let them play along with you. But the responsible thing to do is understand your priorities. That child didn't ask to come here, you chose to bring him here.
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That is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Who the hell props the bottle? Feeding time with your baby is supposed to be a bonding time. That is just sickening and pathetic that someone would do that.
I don't know if you are a parent or not Dekron, but every person that I've know with babies has used this technique. Especially to help them go to sleep again. It's not used all of the time, but when you have things to get done, it sure as hell works. I haven't insulted you are bashed the way you do things and I find your tone very offensive. My child is healthy, smart, and happy. He loves to learn, I love to teach, and he never is wanting for anything. So please keep your tone down or I will report you for flame-baiting. Not everyone in the world shares your views on things. This is a hard lesson I have had to learn myself.
Thank you
Yes, I am a parent. I have three kids, one of them a newborn. It is completely irresponsible, plus dangerous for the baby. Maybe you should read about how babies can get severe ear infections by doing what you were describing. You can read about "propping the bottle" in any parenting book. It can also be defined as neglect. But you know, I am sure you have more important things to do than properly feed your baby.
And please, find a definition for flame-baiting and see if my response falls under that category. I could say the same for your post as it is ridiculous enough to get someone to flame your actions. No matter how you defend yourself, propping the bottle is poor parenting.
I tend to agree with Dekron.Hell hath frozen over.
Is that a support group, or one where you guys justify your game time away from your kids together?
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That is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Who the hell props the bottle? Feeding time with your baby is supposed to be a bonding time. That is just sickening and pathetic that someone would do that.
I don't know if you are a parent or not Dekron, but every person that I've know with babies has used this technique. Especially to help them go to sleep again. It's not used all of the time, but when you have things to get done, it sure as hell works. I haven't insulted you are bashed the way you do things and I find your tone very offensive. My child is healthy, smart, and happy. He loves to learn, I love to teach, and he never is wanting for anything. So please keep your tone down or I will report you for flame-baiting. Not everyone in the world shares your views on things. This is a hard lesson I have had to learn myself.
Thank you
Yes, I am a parent. I have three kids, one of them a newborn. It is completely irresponsible, plus dangerous for the baby. Maybe you should read about how babies can get severe ear infections by doing what you were describing. You can read about "propping the bottle" in any parenting book. It can also be defined as neglect. But you know, I am sure you have more important things to do than properly feed your baby.
And please, find a definition for flame-baiting and see if my response falls under that category. I could say the same for your post as it is ridiculous enough to get someone to flame your actions. No matter how you defend yourself, propping the bottle is poor parenting.
I tend to agree with Dekron.Hell hath frozen over.
I thought I felt a chill.
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Or is making ignorant assumptions easier then visiting a positive site? (hypothetical question)
Asa parent of a young child/children you surely CAN play mmorpg's.Only difference is you'll never be the die hard gamer again who had the highest level with the best weapons and all the ingame wisdom.With some luck you'll be the mediocre gamer....at least IF you take time out for the kids.For me works perfectly , and like the OP mentioned i am also one of those gamers who only plays mmorpgs and needs to have at least one sub running.
Try playing a board game with your kids who are most likely hooked on the computer game and not on the "parent-kid bonding" that you think is taking place. If they enjoy other activities besides the computer with you then no harm done but most likely your kids will complain or be bored playing a 2 hour game of Monopoly on the kitchen table. My parents left the Atari etc to me and my siblings and played board games with us which was a totally different experience. Playing Monopoly for example is a physical bonding experience unlike MMO's which are not even close. How much physical interaction do you and your kids get while playing the MMO? I'll bet little to none even if you are sitting on 2 computers in the same room. Since the child is quiet and happy while playing an MMO I think parents get a very false sense of accomplishment but hey it's your standards not mine. mmodads.com makes me laugh.
Well I am/was an MMO Dad until I realized that the MMO market has turned into a cess pit, with a vulgar stench of stagnation. I started working out and doing boxing again instead of playing MMOS, it's actually about the same cost for the Gym per month as it is for a monthly sub to craptastic online. The gym also has a sauna, hot and cold jaccuzui and lots of hot women in lycra shorts sweating everywhere.
My beer gut has gone (atleast I don't look 3 months pregnant anymore!) and I feel I'm spending my time better as my son comes straight to the gym after school as they have a room with cable TV and a TV that takes up one large wall. I play BF: 2142 when I get home as I have neither the time nor patience to play an MMO grindathon anymore.
That's my soloution anyway.
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
That is the most pathetic thing I have ever heard. Who the hell props the bottle? Feeding time with your baby is supposed to be a bonding time. That is just sickening and pathetic that someone would do that.
I don't know if you are a parent or not Dekron, but every person that I've know with babies has used this technique. Especially to help them go to sleep again. It's not used all of the time, but when you have things to get done, it sure as hell works. I haven't insulted you are bashed the way you do things and I find your tone very offensive. My child is healthy, smart, and happy. He loves to learn, I love to teach, and he never is wanting for anything. So please keep your tone down or I will report you for flame-baiting. Not everyone in the world shares your views on things. This is a hard lesson I have had to learn myself.
Thank you
Yes, I am a parent. I have three kids, one of them a newborn. It is completely irresponsible, plus dangerous for the baby. Maybe you should read about how babies can get severe ear infections by doing what you were describing. You can read about "propping the bottle" in any parenting book. It can also be defined as neglect. But you know, I am sure you have more important things to do than properly feed your baby.
And please, find a definition for flame-baiting and see if my response falls under that category. I could say the same for your post as it is ridiculous enough to get someone to flame your actions. No matter how you defend yourself, propping the bottle is poor parenting.
I'm getting a bit tired of this discussion. Attacking or judging people by their parenting habits is like calling the kettle black. I guarantee that I could go over anyones house and pick out something I think is bad parenting. Anyhow, I never said I propped a bottle for my baby. I just said I know people who have done it. You're assuming because I defend it, I do it. No, I defend it because I know plenty of people who have done it and nothing bad happened like you claim. The government also says that we shouldn't punish our kids, so I take it that you don't punsih your kids now? I didn't even play MMORPGs really when my son was an infant. I was always deployed or out in the field in the Marine Corps. When I got hope I loved watching, holding, and feeding my son, because I hardly got to see him. MMORPG gaming really didn't start for me until after I got out of the Marine Corps.
Anyways, this thread isn't for judging other peoples parenting habits. Doing so makes you off-topic, which is a reportable offense. There is a reason why I didn't include parenting habits as part of my discussion, and that is because it leads to arguing and fighting. Both of which we have enough of from other threads. So please keep your opinions about other peoples parenting to yourself.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
You do know that you can go to the gym and play MMOs, right? I for one go to the gym several times a week, so that I can stay in shape and be better at my job when I get into law enforcement.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
You do know that you can go to the gym and play MMOs, right? I for one go to the gym several times a week, so that I can stay in shape and be better at my job when I get into law enforcement.
Sure but I find that the current market for MMORPGs is pretty bleak (in my opinion) and I just don't have the energy to workout five days a week and dedicate the time needed to play an MMO (in my opinion). If there was an MMO that really suited me then I'd play it as well, but MMOs are too heavy on the solo grindathon and the button mashing rock/paper/scissors game that is PvP.
I play BF: 2142 as a good FPS feels like entertainment, whereas most MMOs feel more like an obligation than fun, and as a father I have enough obligations without subscribing to another over the internet!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Bad parenting is not off-topic according to this quote of yours. And yes, you did highly imply you propped the bottle. Plus, disciplining your children is one thing, negligence is another.
I choose to throw this in as my input to make it more interesting. But, fine, I will stop discussing your wonderful parenting skills.
You do know that you can go to the gym and play MMOs, right? I for one go to the gym several times a week, so that I can stay in shape and be better at my job when I get into law enforcement.
Sure but I find that the current market for MMORPGs is pretty bleak (in my opinion) and I just don't have the energy to workout five days a week and dedicate the time needed to play an MMO (in my opinion). If there was an MMO that really suited me then I'd play it as well, but MMOs are too heavy on the solo grindathon and the button mashing rock/paper/scissors game that is PvP.
I play BF: 2142 as a good FPS feels like entertainment, whereas most MMOs feel more like an obligation than fun, and as a father I have enough obligations without subscribing to another over the internet!
Haha, I understand. At least you found yourself a game to play. That's probably more than a lot of people on this website.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Bad parenting is not off-topic according to this quote of yours. And yes, you did highly imply you propped the bottle. Plus, disciplining your children is one thing, negligence is another.
I choose to throw this in as my input to make it more interesting. But, fine, I will stop discussing your wonderful parenting skills.
Thank you. I should be a no brainer that judging another person's parenting would lead to fights and arguments. I have no idea why you would want to cause grief to another person, but I feel there is enough grief in other threads. Arguments over how to properly be a parent is as old as time itself. We all have different views on how to raise children and no amount of talk from a white coat will change that. I'm sure they did do their research and probably found a link to ear infections and bottle propping, but those same types of people also found a link between humans and apes. I'm sorry, but I choose to go by my experience and people I know and trust over some guy that gets paid to publish what he thinks. This tid bit of information has enlightened me though to some of the risks, so I would advise others to stay away from bottle propping, but you should know that not everyone buys parenting magazines or books. Some of us use what was passed down to us from our parents. Parenting isn't a science. The only way you know if you did a good job or not is at the end, when they are all grown up. If your child is healthy, has good morals and values, is respectful towards others, and has love for learning that will get him ahead in life, then I think that parent did a good job. Regardless if they propped a bottle or played MMORPGs.
MMORPG's w/ Max level characters: DAoC, SWG, & WoW
Currently Playing: WAR
Preferred Playstyle: Roleplay/adventurous, in a sandbox game.
Bad parenting is not off-topic according to this quote of yours. And yes, you did highly imply you propped the bottle. Plus, disciplining your children is one thing, negligence is another.
I choose to throw this in as my input to make it more interesting. But, fine, I will stop discussing your wonderful parenting skills.
Come one give the guy a brake.He clearly stated that he did not mean it in a harsh way.He clearly stated he loved time with the kids.I dunno why you come on so strongly about this towards him.How can you judge his parenting skills if you don't know anything about him.He responded in a nice and polite way....if you are such a good parent as you clearly state then surely you teach your kids to "communitcate" wich other in an appropriate way?Not meant as flame in any way but i think he's getting more thrown at him then he deserves.Bad parenting is not off-topic according to this quote of yours. And yes, you did highly imply you propped the bottle. Plus, disciplining your children is one thing, negligence is another.
I choose to throw this in as my input to make it more interesting. But, fine, I will stop discussing your wonderful parenting skills.
Come one give the guy a brake.He clearly stated that he did not mean it in a harsh way.He clearly stated he loved time with the kids.I dunno why you come on so strongly about this towards him.How can you judge his parenting skills if you don't know anything about him.He responded in a nice and polite way....if you are such a good parent as you clearly state then surely you teach your kids to "communitcate" wich other in an appropriate way?Not meant as flame in any way but i think he's getting more thrown at him then he deserves.He asked for it to end. I respectfully obliged.