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A question for Bush supporters...

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  • ramadinramadin Member Posts: 1,304



    Originally posted by MagmaMayhem
    Bush is not a true follower of Christ. His actions and his lies, along with his greed and corruption show that. Anyone who believes he is a good christian obviously don't know what being a christian is all about.

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    No right-minded fool forsakes truth for falsehood




    What?  So you think Christians are 100% perfect?  Just because your perception of him is what it is doesnt mean its right anyway.  Everyone makes mistakes, presidents arent Gods like everyone expects them to be.  Please get a clue before you judge and defame people you dont even know.

     

     

    Laying in bed, looking up at the stars, a single thought passed through my head. Where the fuck is my roof?

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  • zide56zide56 Member Posts: 356



    Originally posted by Finwe



    Originally posted by zide56
    Either that or they're just crazy.


    Ahh! But what do you think causes insanity!


    "The greatest trick the devil played on humanity in the 20th century was convincing them that he didnt exist." (Paraphrasing) C.S. Lewis



    Quite often, it's parental abuse or negligence.  However, severe insanity quite often arises out of Satanic origins (for instance, I once knew someone who had multiple personality disorder because Satanists had locked her in a coffin for a ridiculously long time when she was a girl--and I'm sure various other abusive things).  So, in a sense, I suppose you're right.

  • TaskyZZTaskyZZ Member Posts: 1,476

    That is the problem with religion. People can go ahead and translate the meaning the way they want to suit their needs. No hard facts, or rules, or anything else. Just some vague writings that allow people to take liberty with the meaning.

    I am sorry that I do not know the difference between Roman Catholicism and Christianity. I could care less about either of them. I just lump all religions into one big lump. Finatics...

    It is funny how the beliefs of the religions change as technology advances prove the beliefs wrong.

    So, what is the explanation of the violence that is done in the name of Christianity that surrounds these crazy anti-abortion people. They burn clinics, shoot doctors, etc... All because they are so brainwashed by the ideas in that book, that they feel they have to commit these crimes...


  • zide56zide56 Member Posts: 356



    Originally posted by TaskyZZ

    That is the problem with religion. People can go ahead and translate the meaning the way they want to suit their needs. No hard facts, or rules, or anything else. Just some vague writings that allow people to take liberty with the meaning.



     Actually, that's not true, and just sounds like an excuse to reject Christianity.



    Originally posted TaskyZZ

    I am sorry that I do not know the difference between Roman Catholicism and Christianity. I could care less about either of them. I just lump all religions into one big lump. Finatics...



     Well, that's also not true, but you'll believe whatever you want to believe, I suppose.



    Originally posted by TaskyZZ

    It is funny how the beliefs of the religions change as technology advances prove the beliefs wrong.



    Another unsubstantiated claim.



    Originally posted by TaskyZZ

    So, what is the explanation of the violence that is done in the name of Christianity that surrounds these crazy anti-abortion people. They burn clinics, shoot doctors, etc... All because they are so brainwashed by the ideas in that book, that they feel they have to commit these crimes...




    How many more times must I say it?  They are not following the Law of God.  They are sinning.  The Lord says that vegeance is His, and that He will repay (Heb. 10:30).  Abortion is wrong, but it is not the duty of man to harm those who participate in such hellacious acts. 

    And they are not "brainwashed by the Bible", as you claim.  They are brainwashed by their own greviously mistaken interpretations, their disregard for various passages in the Word that blatantly forbid their actions, and who knows what else.

  • Shai-HaludShai-Halud Member Posts: 117

    Well religion should never be the focus of a leader, cause it is all bunch of BS that causes problems and has no physical actual benefits.

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    You in?
    Yea.. I'm in

  • zide56zide56 Member Posts: 356



    Originally posted by Shai-Halud

    Well religion should never be the focus of a leader, cause it is all bunch of BS that causes problems and has no physical actual benefits.



    Is that statement supposed to convince me to your way of thinking?

  • TaskyZZTaskyZZ Member Posts: 1,476

    I am not trying to convince you to my way of thinking. That is what religious people do, try to convert people to their way of thinking.

    I am just asking you simple questions to see what kind of answers you have.

    I am not saying your religion condones the violences I am posting. What I am saying is, if religion did not exist, then those violences committed in the name of religion would not have occurred.

    If there was not some book that crazy people were following madly, then they would not be out killing others in the name of that book.

  • MerodocMerodoc Member Posts: 227

    Tasky, as you are writing your "rants", I have a single thought going throught my head- atleast I am not going to hell. So enjoy ranting and feeling good about yourself, because yourself and satanists have a lot in common.

     

    *cheers Zide*

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  • zide56zide56 Member Posts: 356

    You are correct in saying that if religion did not exist, violence in the name of religion would not exist.  However, violence would still exist.  It seems that you are implying that religion is the root of violence and depravity, while it is really quite the opposite.

    The depravity of man has led to the founding of various strange and man-centered religions that do not satisfy or bring fulfillment.  I know what I am saying is abhorrently politically incorrect (like I care), but Judaism and Christianity are the only two religions that were started by God, and Biblical Christianity is the only religion that is continued by God.

    Getting back to the original point, violence is, in no way, a result of religion, and violence would, in no way, stop if religion were abolished.

  • zide56zide56 Member Posts: 356



    Originally posted by Merodoc

    Tasky, as you are writing your "rants", I have a single thought going throught my head- atleast I am not going to hell. So enjoy ranting and feeling good about yourself, because yourself and satanists have a lot in common.
     
    *cheers Zide*

    ______________________________
    Check out the hottest MMORPG in development from Turbine--
    www.middle-earthonline.com



    That's no way to talk to an unbeliever, Merodoc.

  • rathmarathma Member UncommonPosts: 3,786



    Originally posted by Merodoc

    Tasky, as you are writing your "rants", I have a single thought going throught my head- atleast I am not going to hell. So enjoy ranting and feeling good about yourself, because yourself and satanists have a lot in common.
    ______________________________
    Check out the hottest MMORPG in development from Turbine--
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     ........ You sir, are an idiot. People who aren't religious do not believe in the devil. Such as myself. Oooohh no, i'm going to "hell" when i die. Well how can i go to hell if i don't believe in it? I myself, do not live my life by something that someone with the same intelect as me says. Simple as that.

     Boooo! now poo your pants!

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  • zide56zide56 Member Posts: 356



    Originally posted by rathma



    Originally posted by Merodoc

    Tasky, as you are writing your "rants", I have a single thought going throught my head- atleast I am not going to hell. So enjoy ranting and feeling good about yourself, because yourself and satanists have a lot in common.
    ______________________________
    Check out the hottest MMORPG in development from Turbine--
    www.middle-earthonline.com


     ........ You sir, are an idiot. People who aren't religious do not believe in the devil. Such as myself. Oooohh no, i'm going to "hell" when i die. Well how can i go to hell if i don't believe in it? I myself, do not live my life by something that someone with the same intelect as me says. Simple as that.

     Boooo! now poo your pants!


    That's not reasonable logic, sir.  The reality of things is not determined by what our own minds choose to believe.  Hell will still be there whether you believe it or not.  The Earth is still here whether you believe it or not.  Pluto is out there whether you believe it or not.  I exist, whether you believe it or not.  The after-life is like this life, only infinitely better or infinitely worse.  It is still bound by the basic logic of existence. 

    What is in the after-life is, like in this life, not determined by anyone's beliefs.  If there is a Hell, you will go to it (unless you believe on Him in your heart by faith), regardless of whether or not you think you will.  The reality of things, as I said before, is not determined by, or limited to, what our own minds will choose to admit.  What sort of limited universe would this be if it were?

  • MerodocMerodoc Member Posts: 227

    In retrospect, that was a shall we say *immaturish* responce. I am not a Bush supporter, but I am a Republicna (Green party actually, but thats too complicated for some). These people (namely Time magazine) think that a religious president is somehow paranoid when he believes something intangible will guide him (namely: the Holy Spirit) and help him make decisions. Whether or not you like it, you have been guided by a "spirit" in your life. Its a fact because where do your thoughts come from, the back of your head? How do they get in your body, and even more so how does a brain become a thinking machine? Well that may be just too much for some of you all, but I come closer to the subject. You all atheists have one particular that annoys me a hellva-lot more than your beliefs: the way you spit out the words "God, religious, etc", ask anyone who is religious and they will say that whenever they have a conversation of beliefs, the atheists act like learned people who look down upon us. Anyway, I stand by my words and I fully take responcibility for my actions.

     

    Merodoc

    ______________________________
    Check out the hottest MMORPG in development from Turbine--

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    "Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar."
    - Edward R. Murrow

  • zide56zide56 Member Posts: 356

    What really steams me is when they use the words, "God, "religious", and "assh*le" in the same sentence.

    Very classy.  image 

  • 7Fold7Fold Member Posts: 318
    Stalin was a confirmed Atheist, and he killed over 17 million of his own people.

  • zide56zide56 Member Posts: 356

    And Hitler was a Satanist/Narcissist.  You see, much more devastation arises from the lack of God.  When you lack God, you lack substance; and when you lack substance, you seek something else to satisfy that empty God-shaped vacuum within you.  Hitler looked to occultism, which mixed with the narcissism that resulted from his horrifically abusive father, and created the infamous man that the entire world loathes (but really doesn't understand).

    When you do not know God, when you deny His existence, and/or when you misunderstand Him, be prepared for a bumpy ride downwards.

  • SketchSketch Member UncommonPosts: 337



    Originally posted by zide56

    And Hitler was a Satanist/Narcissist.  You see, much more devastation arises from the lack of God. 





    What I've read about him state he was a Firm believer and follower of god and wen;t to church regulary. But thats not important... to you at least...




    Originally posted by zide56

    When you do not know God, when you deny His existence, and/or when you misunderstand Him, be prepared for a bumpy ride downwards.



    I have quite a few friends who are very religious, I myself lean more towards the non-secular, I don;t know if there is a god, but if there is, we should all found our own way there. But I'm going to hell apparently, even though I've always helped my friends and family, and when ever possible have done whats right... Oh well, c'est la vie.

    But heres my question; So many religions have different beliefs... Which is the right religion? That can't all be right. Juwdaism belives Jesus was a profit, and not the messiah. So, whos right and whos wrong?

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  • zide56zide56 Member Posts: 356



    Originally posted by Sketch


    Originally posted by zide56

    And Hitler was a Satanist/Narcissist.  You see, much more devastation arises from the lack of God. 




    What I've read about him state he was a Firm believer and follower of god and wen;t to church regulary. But thats not important... to you at least...



    As a child, yes.  He even wanted to become a monk.  I've always found this fact about Hitler very interesting.  An even bigger stumper: what happened?  My theory is that because people (boys especially) see their Heavenly Father through their earthly father, Hitler saw his Heavenly Father as barbaric, abusive, and demanding--just like his earthly father.  Furthermore, his theology may have been completely off the wall (I'm not sure what his denomination or affiliation was), which would have given him a bad start to begin with.



     Originally posted by Sketch 



    Originally posted by zide56

    When you do not know God, when you deny His existence, and/or when you misunderstand Him, be prepared for a bumpy ride downwards.



    I have quite a few friends who are very religious, I myself lean more towards the non-secular, I don;t know if there is a god, but if there is, we should all found our own way there. But I'm going to hell apparently, even though I've always helped my friends and family, and when ever possible have done whats right... Oh well, c'est la vie.



    Well, if God was a generic God, then perhaps "finding our own ways" to Him would work.  However, there in only one way to the Father, and that is through Christ (Jn. 14:6).  Also, if "helping your friends out and trying to be good" got you to Heaven, then perhaps that would work for you.  However, considering you are fallen and utterly depraved from the point of conception, this is not logically possible.



    Originally posted by Sketch

    But heres my question; So many religions have different beliefs... Which is the right religion? That can't all be right. Juwdaism belives Jesus was a profit, and not the messiah. So, whos right and whos wrong?




    This is basically what it all gets down to.  While there are many different things that point to Christ being who He said He was (meaning that He was the Christ and everything He taught about the Father and various other things was true), it ultimately gets down to faith--the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

  • ChindowChindow Member Posts: 13
    Just a quick question. They way you have been stating you will go to hell if you dont beleave thing. What happened to all the people that never heard of god? Back before america was discovered and the native americans had no clue of Christian teachings. Or any tribal system that never had contact to these teachings. The cut and dry way you approach religion, as in there can be only one just doesnt make since.

  • zide56zide56 Member Posts: 356



    Originally posted by Chindow
    Just a quick question. They way you have been stating you will go to hell if you dont beleave thing. What happened to all the people that never heard of god? Back before america was discovered and the native americans had no clue of Christian teachings. Or any tribal system that never had contact to these teachings. The cut and dry way you approach religion, as in there can be only one just doesnt make since.



    Why does that not make sense?  What doesn't make sense is claiming that more than one religion can be true.  If there are two religions that have completely opposing viewpoints, then at least one of them has to be wrong.  For two conflicting opinions to be right is logically impossible.  (Unless of course, there are no absolutes.  Then anything is up for grabs.)

    Not knowing of Christ carries the same repercussions of one refusing to acknowledge His Lordship.  The simple fact is, God chooses to reveal Himself to some, and chooses to hide himself from others.  So, ultimately, those who never knew of Christ to begin with are basically the same as those who have heard of Him and have rejected Him.  Both were blinded by God.

  • ChindowChindow Member Posts: 13

    Ok so he showed hisself to a very limited amount of people. Then they started to spread his word but becasue they didnt have a known route to other places at the time all those other people just end up living out the afterlife in pain? They could have been the most compastionate, carring people on the planet but becasue they never heard of him they suffer. They only way this can make any since is by looking at it with one way eyes.

  • zide56zide56 Member Posts: 356



    Originally posted by Chindow

    Ok so he showed hisself to a very limited amount of people. Then they started to spread his word but becasue they didnt have a known route to other places at the time all those other people just end up living out the afterlife in pain? They could have been the most compastionate, carring people on the planet but becasue they never heard of him they suffer. They only way this can make any since is by looking at it with one way eyes.



    Again, being "compassionate" and "nice" is not what gets one into Heaven.  No matter how nice a person may seem, they are still fallen and guilty of Hell.  Don't take it up with me--take it up with Adam.

    And do you have more than one-way eyes?  Something tells me that you do not, because every human being is given God's gift of bias.

  • ChindowChindow Member Posts: 13
    Ok now i get it. Being a good and just person means nothing in the eyes of a christian unless the person is a christian. Becasue if hes not hes burning in hell? Either way these were just a couple post to make folks think. I dont bash anyone for there beliefs i just like to get a better understanding of the way they see there beliefs.

  • zide56zide56 Member Posts: 356



    Originally posted by Chindow
    Ok now i get it. Being a good and just person means nothing in the eyes of a christian unless the person is a christian. Becasue if hes not hes burning in hell? Either way these were just a couple post to make folks think. I dont bash anyone for there beliefs i just like to get a better understanding of the way they see there beliefs.




    The works of a Christian are not what get him into Heaven, either.  Christians, too, were born fallen and depraved in their sinfulness.  What sets them apart from all the rest, however, is the fact that God chose to pull them from the muck and impute upon them the perfect works of Christ, making them clean in the eyes of the Judge.

  • SketchSketch Member UncommonPosts: 337




    Originally posted by zide56

    As a child, yes.  He even wanted to become a monk.  I've always found this fact about Hitler very interesting.  An even bigger stumper: what happened?  My theory is that because people (boys especially) see their Heavenly Father through their earthly father, Hitler saw his Heavenly Father as barbaric, abusive, and demanding--just like his earthly father.  Furthermore, his theology may have been completely off the wall (I'm not sure what his denomination or affiliation was), which would have given him a bad start to begin with.

    Actually what happened to Hitler, was a long story but to try and summurize it When he was young he thought there was no greater goal then to serve your country, but failing his medical exame he was rejected from the military, while at the time he had many Jewish friends, and none of them were joining the service. He thought it selfish and un-german, and this began his unbalanced downward spiral to the man he became. Later on When he got into politics and foriegn coutries were threatening to forclose on Germany's debts he called to all Germans to donate money to save germany. Many gave what they could but accourding to Hitler the Jewish community refused to donate even though accourding to him they were shiping large valumes of money to Isreal to support the efforts there. He they pretty much told the Jewish community to get out of the "fatherland". He was pretty much of the deep end at this point and when the Jews living in Germany didn't leave by the date he had them all forced into ghettos and stripped of thier possesions then later arrested and moved to camps. He was adisturbed man, with great issues of resentment more towards himself then anyone else. And commited horrors upon the world while trying to deal with his own infiriority complexes.... Of course like you said, I'm sure he had some daddy issues to.

    Umm, also, are all the Jews that were killed in the Holocaust in hell now since they had differenty beliefs then you? 

     



    Well, if God was a generic God, then perhaps "finding our own ways" to Him would work.  However, there in only one way to the Father, and that is through Christ (Jn. 14:6).  Also, if "helping your friends out and trying to be good" got you to Heaven, then perhaps that would work for you.  However, considering you are fallen and utterly depraved at the point of conception, this is not logically possible.

    Ok, so just being good won't get you into heaven and will sentence you to hell. Gotcha.

     



     This is basically what it all gets down to.  While there are many different things that point to Christ being who He said He was, meaning that He was the Christ and everything He taught about the Father and various other things was true.  Ultimately, however, it gets down to faith--the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.


    Does that mean Buddhism is wrong?

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