TR is a WoW Clone in a sense. It shares the basic tenets of all DIKUs, with an exponential XP grind, skills gained automatically and unlocked through spec, levels, quests and so on. All of this is apparent in their convention demos.
The thing most different is the combat UI. This is no small feet. It isn't PS, but it isn't WoW either.
My own disappointment is that I don't associate "RG" with cool new combat. I associate it with immersive virtual worlds that live and breath whether I'm there or not, where I'm merely playing a role with others. TR did not feel like that.
Truly revolutionary games: Planetside. The first true fps mmo. With multi-person vehicles and it actually worked, to a point. EvE Online. Realtime skill training. You are what you train. You could play the game without ever fiering a shot. A Tale in The Desert. Non-combat mmo. Need I say more ? And then you have the truly social mmo's like Second Life and the lookalikes.
You have to add these two there too, because they where pretty much first of they kinds in graphics mmorpgs.
- Ultima Online, skill system, housing
- Everquest, levels, quests and 3D graphics.
Never played the "The Realm Online", so don't know what kind of game it was. It did last only few years.
Tbh they're all EQ clones cause if there was a UO with better graphics i'd be playing it lol.
There is, its called EVE.
EVE is basically the closest thing to UO to ever have come out thus far. It has every aspect of UO and then some. The only difference is obviously the setting and the combat system.
EVE is an open universe, you can go anywhere do anything. Completley player run economy, free roaming FFA PvP. The ONLY problem i had with EVE and the reason I dont play is the combat system. I like more interaction when i play, although I have respect for EVEs system, its good just not my style.
The NCsoft legend believes that the genre is stagnant and that all the games currently on the market are either Ultima Online or EverQuest with better graphics
Thanks for the article.
As for his comment, it is just a marketing ploy. Essentially, "All MMO's are the same, but only my game is different, truly different.
What, what game is also different, La La La La La, I can't here you. Security kick that troll out. Fellow loyalist who worship me, you know what I am preaching. You know that I am right. In my name, we pray."
Ok, so I got carried away with the ego. But that was the point, bash the other games (without mentioning their names) while spinning one's own game.
Otherwise, I am glad it only took $250,000 to start UO. A good success.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Skills ugpraded themselves without doing anything in UO . Eve is nothing like UO, perhaps in spirit of open ended gaming but thats where the similarities stop.
TR is a step back as far as mmorpgs go in my opinion. Firstly it pretends to be an fps but it really isn't, it's a first person rpg set in a sci fi universe. Secondly it is mainly a PvE game, I guess good ole British forgot what made UO so much fun (hint - starts and ends with a P) The graphics are pretty cool but it is mainly you shooting npcs in an rpg style miss or hit system over and over and over again. From what I'm hearing the game esentially comes down to only 2 classes and is pretty much a grind. Garriot hasnt done anything good in ages and i'm afraid he doesnt have anything new or good to offer the mmo community.
But its not "First Person Shooter" at all. Its played in the Third person. (Third Person Shooter???) All it is doing is not giving target lock until you hit a key and attaching specials to the mouse. JUST LIKE SWG tried with NGE. I play FPS games and TR is not even close to FPS. What the heck is the difference if I click on the mob once to select and again to attack or hold my cursor over it then press another key to "lock it" aside from the fact you gotta be annoyed with trying to keep the cursor over it while it hops around? Its just goofy and thats why SOE readded auto target/attack to SWG. Then the specials are fired from the right mouse button...now how does that make managing specials easier or better? Now you gotta hit a key to swap them out so you can fire them? Again, SWG tried this and it fell on its face so hard it about killed it. Its all Math based anyway, no twitch skill is involved other then locking the target, Its level / gear based combat. (pressing the mouse key to fire each shot at a locked target is not twitch based combat, its an illusionary psuedo style combat. The same MMORPG mechanics are still running under the hood only now its making you press more buttons for the same thing)
(you can get a complete description of this in several dev interviews including one where RG walks you through EXACTLY how it works, so no, I'm not breaking the NDA)
But yeah, its maybe not a full step back because I really don't know how many more step backs this genre can do before it steps off a cliff, but its not really a step forward either. Its more of the same with a new skin. I hate to say it but its not going to outdo SWG in terms of the raw amount of features. Its going to have some pretty nice missions but thats about it. I have not seen anything on vehicles, housing, crafting, guilds, space at all? what dynamic impact the players are going to have in this if any. I am picking up the vibe its going to be very similar to GW only with persistant areas. Scripted style, linear console type gameplay in MMORPG's FTW? ug....So much for free form gaming, time to get back on rails.
What I don't understand about MMO devs is if they want to do a FPS combat style why don't they just do it? It can still be third person. There are a number of console games that use shooter from third person. FPS is this: you have an aim reticle. If you fire and the reticle is on target, it hits. If you are not on target, you miss. (modified by the balistic characteristics of the weapon in use) Whats so hard about that? Whats with this clumsy button mashing these guys insist on doing? Hot key the specials, bam ...done. Its no different then a regualar shooter were you swap out different weapons for different effects and damage. They are hot keyed. You use your right mouse to aim / zoom normally.
Instead they keep trying to reinvent the wheel by trying to attaching math based combat to it.
Sorry for the rant...lol...I got carried away...
Very well said...i've been very annoyed by people calling TR an FPS when it's actually 3rd person view.
I also agree about this type of combat, why add all this nuisance just to kill a mob?
Sounds like a commercial blah blah, in my humble imHo. Lets hope we'll be able to verify in an open beta.
Remember the last "visonary morpg".. Vg.. and see how it is now.
It does not sound like a commercial blah blah. It is a commercial blah blah.
Mr Garriott and all other mmo designers out there should at last stop talking and start proving.
People also have not changed in 10 years but this does not make them less interesting. Please release Tabula Rasa and all other "new" mmos that we are waiting for and we shall decide if they have something new to offer to the genre.
The last year we all wait patiently for this new mmo evolution to start but it seems that for some reason they are all in closed beta and there have been no official announcements about the final release date of these mmos.
If you people really think all games are either UO or EQ clones you obviously haven't played very many of the thousand's of titles out there world wide.
Sure there are alot of clones, but that has as much to do with education and technology as it does with cookie cutting successful titles.
There was a ton of variety with first generation MMOs, simply because no one had ever done it before. Designers didn't know what worked and what didn't, they had to be creative, experiment, and create not only the game but the tools to make the game.
Once upon a tme desingers were artists and visionaries.
Now days most designers are simply the latest batch of tech school graduates. All educated exactly the same way, from the exact same books, and a big part of the education is being told what they can't do, what doesn't work.
You say the games are the clones.. I say the designers are.
If you people really think all games are either UO or EQ clones you obviously haven't played very many of the thousand's of titles out there world wide.
Sure there are alot of clones, but that has as much to do with education and technology as it does with cookie cutting successful titles.
There was a ton of variety with first generation MMOs, simply because no one had ever done it before. Designers didn't know what worked and what didn't, they had to be creative, experiment, and create not only the game but the tools to make the game.
Once upon a tme desingers were artists and visionaries.
Now days most designers are simply the latest batch of tech school graduates. All educated exactly the same way, from the exact same books, and a big part of the education is being told what they can't do, what doesn't work.
You say the games are the clones.. I say the designers are.
If you people really think all games are either UO or EQ clones you obviously haven't played very many of the thousand's of titles out there world wide.
Sure there are alot of clones, but that has as much to do with education and technology as it does with cookie cutting successful titles.
There was a ton of variety with first generation MMOs, simply because no one had ever done it before. Designers didn't know what worked and what didn't, they had to be creative, experiment, and create not only the game but the tools to make the game.
Once upon a tme desingers were artists and visionaries.
Now days most designers are simply the latest batch of tech school graduates. All educated exactly the same way, from the exact same books, and a big part of the education is being told what they can't do, what doesn't work.
You say the games are the clones.. I say the designers are.
Interesting point.
Here is one of their textbooks or "bible" as I have read other peoples comments.
Designing Virtual Worlds, 2003, New Riders Pub
By....none other then Richard Bartle.
I said it before a few times now, the same people who started this genre are still calling all the shots, thats why everything is the same.
Either no one is paying attention to what this guy is saying or his views stink. I'm gonna have to read this book one day. Since the state of MMO gaming basically sucks, I can only assume that whatever design philosophy they are following is garbage.
If you people really think all games are either UO or EQ clones you obviously haven't played very many of the thousand's of titles out there world wide.
Sure there are alot of clones, but that has as much to do with education and technology as it does with cookie cutting successful titles.
There was a ton of variety with first generation MMOs, simply because no one had ever done it before. Designers didn't know what worked and what didn't, they had to be creative, experiment, and create not only the game but the tools to make the game.
Once upon a tme desingers were artists and visionaries.
Now days most designers are simply the latest batch of tech school graduates. All educated exactly the same way, from the exact same books, and a big part of the education is being told what they can't do, what doesn't work.
You say the games are the clones.. I say the designers are.
The difference being ?
None.
TR is just like every other game out there.
This is just Spin to make his game stand out in a crowded field.
The only difference in this game will be the grapics(DX10 and such). Which others are bringing out at the same time or sooner(see AoC).
In this game, you kill things for missions. You collect things for missions. You level up. You get new guns. You get new skills. You have skill/gun bars. You have different types of ammo.
What is different in that sentence from just about every other game?
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
The NCsoft legend believes that the genre is stagnant and that all the games currently on the market are either Ultima Online or EverQuest with better graphics
We dont need to be Richard Garriot to know about this, so many people complained already a couple of years ago about that......already 3-4 years ago it was clear that the mmorpg genre wil decline without investment into really new ideas. This dude is just doing his job with the press - advertising & PR.
If you really watch all these houndreds of mmorpgs, they are all the same or very similar and not many mmorpgs differ that much. Well, what do we have: Fantasy mmorpgs, Space mmorpgs, World War mmorpg, Science-Fiction mmorpgs, ....did i mention the mage-warrior-rogue-archer fantasy mmorpg already ? blub blub ....welcome in the world of diversifiication LOL its all the same shit.
What the mmorpg market offers nowadays and in the last 2-3 years, is either hyped, a major copy and not that exciting like it would have been almost 10 years ago. Of course youngsters, means next young gamer generations growing quick but the offer for player with some years of game expirience, which know already the whole copied fantasy content...just a big yaaawn - the genre is stagnant yupp. The problem is that the boom about mmorpgs did decline a bit, most companies dont want to be that risky with investments and just copy succesfull game stories and content. New Ideas are risky and not many would take the risk, but if you watch more close you see already that more and more games are just a failure. They either dont offer what gamers want or cant offer what they promised, or they are just one of the houndreds mmorpgs which are forgotten in one or two years.
Comments
TR is a WoW Clone in a sense. It shares the basic tenets of all DIKUs, with an exponential XP grind, skills gained automatically and unlocked through spec, levels, quests and so on. All of this is apparent in their convention demos.
The thing most different is the combat UI. This is no small feet. It isn't PS, but it isn't WoW either.
My own disappointment is that I don't associate "RG" with cool new combat. I associate it with immersive virtual worlds that live and breath whether I'm there or not, where I'm merely playing a role with others. TR did not feel like that.
You have to add these two there too, because they where pretty much first of they kinds in graphics mmorpgs.
- Ultima Online, skill system, housing
- Everquest, levels, quests and 3D graphics.
Never played the "The Realm Online", so don't know what kind of game it was. It did last only few years.
MMORPG.COM has worst forum editor ever exists
There is, its called EVE.
EVE is basically the closest thing to UO to ever have come out thus far. It has every aspect of UO and then some. The only difference is obviously the setting and the combat system.
EVE is an open universe, you can go anywhere do anything. Completley player run economy, free roaming FFA PvP. The ONLY problem i had with EVE and the reason I dont play is the combat system. I like more interaction when i play, although I have respect for EVEs system, its good just not my style.
Good tasting, yes, good for you, not really.
The Old Timers Guild
Laid back, not so serious, no drama.
All about the fun!
www.oldtimersguild.com
An opinion should be the result of thought, not a substitute for it. - Jef Mallett
As for his comment, it is just a marketing ploy. Essentially, "All MMO's are the same, but only my game is different, truly different.
What, what game is also different, La La La La La, I can't here you. Security kick that troll out. Fellow loyalist who worship me, you know what I am preaching. You know that I am right. In my name, we pray."
Ok, so I got carried away with the ego. But that was the point, bash the other games (without mentioning their names) while spinning one's own game.
Otherwise, I am glad it only took $250,000 to start UO. A good success.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Skills ugpraded themselves without doing anything in UO . Eve is nothing like UO, perhaps in spirit of open ended gaming but thats where the similarities stop.
(you can get a complete description of this in several dev interviews including one where RG walks you through EXACTLY how it works, so no, I'm not breaking the NDA
)
But yeah, its maybe not a full step back because I really don't know how many more step backs this genre can do before it steps off a cliff, but its not really a step forward either. Its more of the same with a new skin. I hate to say it but its not going to outdo SWG in terms of the raw amount of features. Its going to have some pretty nice missions but thats about it. I have not seen anything on vehicles, housing, crafting, guilds, space at all? what dynamic impact the players are going to have in this if any. I am picking up the vibe its going to be very similar to GW only with persistant areas. Scripted style, linear console type gameplay in MMORPG's FTW? ug....So much for free form gaming, time to get back on rails.
What I don't understand about MMO devs is if they want to do a FPS combat style why don't they just do it? It can still be third person. There are a number of console games that use shooter from third person. FPS is this: you have an aim reticle. If you fire and the reticle is on target, it hits. If you are not on target, you miss. (modified by the balistic characteristics of the weapon in use) Whats so hard about that? Whats with this clumsy button mashing these guys insist on doing? Hot key the specials, bam ...done. Its no different then a regualar shooter were you swap out different weapons for different effects and damage. They are hot keyed. You use your right mouse to aim / zoom normally.
Instead they keep trying to reinvent the wheel by trying to attaching math based combat to it.
Sorry for the rant...lol...I got carried away...
Very well said...i've been very annoyed by people calling TR an FPS when it's actually 3rd person view.
I also agree about this type of combat, why add all this nuisance just to kill a mob?
Sounds like a commercial blah blah, in my humble imHo.
Lets hope we'll be able to verify in an open beta.
Remember the last "visonary morpg".. Vg.. and see how it is now.
Syndy
It does not sound like a commercial blah blah. It is a commercial blah blah.
Mr Garriott and all other mmo designers out there should at last stop talking and start proving.
People also have not changed in 10 years but this does not make them less interesting. Please release Tabula Rasa and all other "new" mmos that we are waiting for and we shall decide if they have something new to offer to the genre.
The last year we all wait patiently for this new mmo evolution to start but it seems that for some reason they are all in closed beta and there have been no official announcements about the final release date of these mmos.
If you people really think all games are either UO or EQ clones you obviously haven't played very many of the thousand's of titles out there world wide.
Sure there are alot of clones, but that has as much to do with education and technology as it does with cookie cutting successful titles.
There was a ton of variety with first generation MMOs, simply because no one had ever done it before. Designers didn't know what worked and what didn't, they had to be creative, experiment, and create not only the game but the tools to make the game.
Once upon a tme desingers were artists and visionaries.
Now days most designers are simply the latest batch of tech school graduates. All educated exactly the same way, from the exact same books, and a big part of the education is being told what they can't do, what doesn't work.
You say the games are the clones.. I say the designers are.
The difference being ?
Interesting point.
Here is one of their textbooks or "bible" as I have read other peoples comments.
Designing Virtual Worlds, 2003, New Riders Pub
By....none other then Richard Bartle.
I said it before a few times now, the same people who started this genre are still calling all the shots, thats why everything is the same.
Either no one is paying attention to what this guy is saying or his views stink. I'm gonna have to read this book one day. Since the state of MMO gaming basically sucks, I can only assume that whatever design philosophy they are following is garbage.
The difference being ?
None.
TR is just like every other game out there.
This is just Spin to make his game stand out in a crowded field.
The only difference in this game will be the grapics(DX10 and such). Which others are bringing out at the same time or sooner(see AoC).
In this game, you kill things for missions. You collect things for missions. You level up. You get new guns. You get new skills. You have skill/gun bars. You have different types of ammo.
What is different in that sentence from just about every other game?
Nothing.
Richard Garriot hasn't been the same since he lost his english accent.
Lord British is dead, long live Lord British.
Richard Garriott is just proving why no one should really listen to old people when it comes to gaming......
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We dont need to be Richard Garriot to know about this, so many people complained already a couple of years ago about that......already 3-4 years ago it was clear that the mmorpg genre wil decline without investment into really new ideas. This dude is just doing his job with the press - advertising & PR.
If you really watch all these houndreds of mmorpgs, they are all the same or very similar and not many mmorpgs differ that much. Well, what do we have: Fantasy mmorpgs, Space mmorpgs, World War mmorpg, Science-Fiction mmorpgs, ....did i mention the mage-warrior-rogue-archer fantasy mmorpg already ? blub blub ....welcome in the world of diversifiication LOL its all the same shit.
What the mmorpg market offers nowadays and in the last 2-3 years, is either hyped, a major copy and not that exciting like it would have been almost 10 years ago. Of course youngsters, means next young gamer generations growing quick but the offer for player with some years of game expirience, which know already the whole copied fantasy content...just a big yaaawn - the genre is stagnant yupp. The problem is that the boom about mmorpgs did decline a bit, most companies dont want to be that risky with investments and just copy succesfull game stories and content. New Ideas are risky and not many would take the risk, but if you watch more close you see already that more and more games are just a failure. They either dont offer what gamers want or cant offer what they promised, or they are just one of the houndreds mmorpgs which are forgotten in one or two years.