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Classic Everquest
altairzq
Member Posts: 3,811
You had no minimap.
You had no map.
Night was pitch black. Only some races could see a little at night.
You had to learn how to tell where North East South and West was.
When you died you had to go back naked, or with what you had in the bank, and try to find your body. Nothing would guide you (except if you typed loc to know the coordinates before dying or a necromancer helped you, but I found that out very late in the game).
Items had a weight. You got encumbered pretty soon and walked more and more slowly the more weight you were carrying.
Factions and deities had a meaning. Evil races had a hard time moving around and crafting. Some combinations where very difficult.
Quests where rare and very hard to find and to finish.
Falling damage was realistic.
Falling damage was increased depending on your weight, including what you where carrying.
You could not outrun enemies.
Enemies would run after you all across the zone.
No locked combat.
Mixed level of creatures in one zone.
No instant travel.
Ships without teletransport.
Jump that decreased your stamina.
Swinging a weapon decreased your stamina depending on its weigth and speed.
No tutorial (except a little one that teached you how to walk, talk to an NPC and climb a stair).
You could attack every NPC (and everyone in a red (PVP) server)
No instances.
Player's bodies were solid.
---
What a pain in the ass, right?
No. It was an incredible experience, and sadly it seems that is gone forever, since no new MMORPG can be compared to that piece of gaming art.
Disclaimer: there were also bad things but we tend to forget the bad and remember the good 
I'm sure I also forgot some good things and wrote other not exactly as they were but the general idea is clear I hope.
Comments
yes i agree
i miss those days of Eq but we have to move on
and hope one day
we will find something that can be equally as good
He makes a very very good point, most MMO's these days have strayed off from EQ's originality and mayn people are upset, I have my EQ characters on lock down, and would go back to the game in an instant, EQ2, killed EQ's idea, but yet still maintained the funadmentals of what a game should be, I am sorry for all lovers of WoW< and New gen MMO's.......Every single MMO should follow DnD's beginning, it was the original MMO, if you think about it, if someone could recreate the feeling of playing that game we would be into a wonderous game that would make millions. So many games have tried to capture that idea of DnD but its near impossible so much complexity in one game. Imagine if GM's created dungeons themselves, their werent set dungeons, presuming the GM's were not idiots and were good DM's we could be in for a good game, but good luck every MMO nowadays is following grindfest, to random killing, and graphics. The games we once knew are changing for the better in someways, someday we will go back to EQ once, and realize that it was a great game, with probably the most fun community until it outdated itself. But yea I am glad EQ was brought up,
...its a legend in my book.
Memories of the past are always more attractive than the reality of the past. Nostalgia trumps reason.
I'm sure that if Vanguard had not been developped by a bunch of idiots, it could have been a spiritual successor to EQ1, harder than wow. Its how it was marketed at the beginning, and it was postively welcomed by the former EQ community at the time. Now of course, things have changed...
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
And why did it all get changed.........
Because players complained about everything you had in your list. Can you imagine asking a player to run back naked to loot their corpse. Not today. Can you imagine darkness so dark that you really couldn't move around, even with the little lantern you were carrying... Not today. None of those things in your list, sadly, would fly with todays MMORPG player.
======================
It's just me, so open the door.
The OP said a few things that aren't quite right.
"Night was pitch black. Only some races could see a little at night."
Actually most races could see well enough at night. Only the human races couldn't; humans, barbarians and erudites. But my first character was a barbarian so I know what you're talking about.
"you could not outrun enemies."
Depended on your class. Kiting was entirely based on outrunning your enemies. Remember /shout "WTB sow".
"no instant travel"
Druids and wizards had teleport spells from the first day the game released (had to gain some levels first though). Ok, it's true that insta-travel wasn't as easily available at all times back then but it did exist.
Other than those three things you were pretty accurate.
all depends on the game really. WoW is made to be a fun and accessible game, with quick gameplay. It has no need of adding realism to the world. If it was a rpg, it would be substantially different to other rpgs that focus more on getting the feel of the environment right, trying to fit the character into the world. You don't have quest exclamation marks in something like Morrowind for a reason- it just doesn't fit the game. Likewise Everquest was a different mmorpg with less appeals surrounding instant gameplay and maybe more appeals as a rpg. The sort of characteristics could easily be found in another mmorpg, just the question is how much of a grind is that mmorpg? People if having to do repetitive tasks don't really want that extra elements as the game is probably less appreciated as a rpg and seen more of a calculated process because of how repetitive things are in a mmorpg. So I think if a mmorpg can remove the excess tedium of say grinding then the rpg element maybe more appreciated.
I agree with the OP. Old school EQ1 was the best and nothing since has been better overall.
The dummy down progression of realism and consequences of one's actions or lack of action in newer MMOGs is pathetic.
The thing why you loved original Everquest is because it was your first MMORPG and all seemed new, exciting. You just didnt noticed all stupid things and bugs playing and enjoying the world. All those points that you mentioned not what made EQ good. Most of them are actually horrible ideas and as you can see never used in modern MMORPG (because wasting 3 hours just to recover your corpse is lame. YOu have to enjoy the game, not run naked like idiot through zones that you already learned).
WoW --> for dumb people.
LotR --> for dumber people still.
EQ 1 required you to be awesome in your class; if you were not a great player, you sucked; there were no "good" players. You either knew how to play very well or you sucked. Vanguard returns to that, somewhat, with classes receiving an array of abilities, different and unique stances, and so forth. Vanguard does return to the individual real-life strategy and skill concept to be effective.
Boycott EA Games. RIP Sim City.
If Vanguard is empty today its not because of EQ1 legacy, its because of technical crap and no end-game.
My addiction History:
>> EQ1 2000-2004 - Shaman/Bard/Wizard/Monk - nolife raid-whore
>> WoW 2004-2009 + Cataclysm for 2 months - hardcore casual
>> Current status : done with MMO, too old for that crap.
I still remember the joy I felt when I saw my ogre corpse in the swamps through the trees, the image is clear in my mind after all these years, it was getting dark, his skin was orange due to the sunset, and I was scared of the night creatures appearing. This is something you can only feel after hours of painfull search that is true, but that is one of the things that made Everquest great.
Also there is a fundamental thing, the zone was not populated, only people passing by from time to time, but three or four players stopped and asked if I needed help, realizing I was naked. They took some of their time to search my body and I was so gratefull that later I always helped people in trouble and of course I wasn't the only one to do it. That is another of the things that made Everquest special, maybe the most important. Dificulties make people get together and help each other and it feels great.
About being the first MMORPG I agree this is an important factor but after a few years playing, it's not new anymore, you are already a veteran and know all the mechanics but it remained interesting and challenging.
What I really hated is groups that stood in one place, with one guy pulling and stayed for hours there killing the same mob over and over and over again. That made me quit a couple of times. Specially when I saw a much higher level group doing the same exact thing. This is what they should have fixed in the expansions, or EQ2, while keeping the good features.
Imo, thats not fun or challenging, Its annoying.
We have seen all those things taken out of most modern MMORPG's, and you know what, There is probably a good reason for that.
I have to say that the "Quests are rare" part is quite funny. When an old mmorpg had little to no quests, many people look back and think "Those were the days". When an mmorpg today releases with few quests, its an "Asian grindfest". Yay for the mmorpg community I guess.
I played EQ1 when it had all of that as well and I'm going for YES it was a pain in the ass. I'll never play a game like it again and I won't be even a tiny bit sad if there is never another game designed to be like those parts of it you list.
I played EQ1 when it had all of that as well and I'm going for YES it was a pain in the ass. I'll never play a game like it again and I won't be even a tiny bit sad if there is never another game designed to be like those parts of it you list.
Be sure you are not the only one feeling like that. I mean this is why they changed (destroyed in my oppinion) EQ and later appeared EQ2, WOW, etc.
I played EQ1 when it had all of that as well and I'm going for YES it was a pain in the ass. I'll never play a game like it again and I won't be even a tiny bit sad if there is never another game designed to be like those parts of it you list.
Be sure you are not the only one feeling like that. I mean this is why they changed (destroyed in my oppinion) EQ and later appeared EQ2, WOW, etc.
Don't worry, I was confident I wasn't the only one with that view
DAoC was called EQ light in the beginning doing many things like eq but with not a harsh penalty when a fault was made by the player, large part of DAoC success was because so many eq players went over and the reason eq was changed was because they wanted to try and get they playerbase back that went from eq to DAoC. Because they tryed that there original player base that liked the way eq was went away and DAoC players didn't return to eq so they only screwed up there player base more by trying
Few things...
"Memories of the past are always more attractive than the reality of the past. Nostalgia trumps reason." I would fully agree with you except for the thousands of people who went back to the progression servers in their youth and had a wonderful time. After playing WoW for over a year now I decided to check it out and I was instantly addicted again.
"The thing why you loved original Everquest is because it was your first MMORPG and all seemed new, exciting." Again I WOULD agree, but EQ was not my first MMORPG, I had played UO prior to the EQ experience and I was never addicted to UO the way I was addicted to EQ. Before anyone goes off and says "But it's different, UO was topdown etc etc etc" yes, and so the MMO's of today are also different when compared against UO or EQ.
"WoW --> for dumb people.
LotR --> for dumber people still." This is why no one takes anyone who talks about EQ as good seriously. I play WoW, I played LoTRO, but I still liked EQ more. Talking like a 9 yr old hardly makes anyone who does not understand the hold EQ had on us pay attention. Sorry for singling you out btw, it's just there has always been a lot of harsh words thrown back and forth between hardcore EQers and hardcore WoWers, and its pointless bickering.
"We have seen all those things taken out of most modern MMORPG's, and you know what, There is probably a good reason for that." It is possible that these things have been taken out to further evolve the MMO-genre, but there has always been a slight flaw in humans evolution of late. We no longer evolve for the best, now we just change our environment to best suit our lifestyle, and the same applies to the games we create. No longer do they evolve in the direction of being the best game ever, they just cater to our lifestyle... which has become short playing periods, and lack of patience for grinding. It could be argued that moving away from such things IS evolving, but as all MMORPG companies are businesses first I would not leave evolution up to them. If evolution was left up to the big companies, we would no longer eat food, we would eat gasoline. Yes thats evolution indeed.
"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath
I miss EQ1 >_< thought vanguard was gonna bring that all back somewhat but er..that didnt turn out right.
Ah I remember when I fell off the boat in EQ and almost drowned *swimming required stamina* logged out because I thought I might still be at the top of the water later after I printed a map of this ocean from online, come back and im somewhere between the bottom of the sea and surface XD
Found a extremely tiny tip of land sticking out of the water and managed to get my stamina back there, then I had to swim island to island till I got to a boat dock finally. Could've lost all my gear for good right there.
It was just exciting really, games lack these kinds of personal expirences with modern mmo's, and I think stuff like that is what us EQ1 players are missing.
It used up stamina but it didn't require stamina. I was able to swim most of the way along that zone between Freeport and BB after a linkdeath while the boat zoned. Ahh the painfully boring memories.
It used up stamina but it didn't require stamina. I was able to swim most of the way along that zone between Freeport and BB after a linkdeath while the boat zoned. Ahh the painfully boring memories.
mm I dont remember it being that way../shrug
and I dont recall anyone being able to swim from Freeport to BB..if not drowning a mob would've gotten you in most cases, 'n why not just take the boat?
How can you say thats a "painfully boring memory" when all modern mmo's have to offer is either exp grind or quest grind the way the dev's want you to? In fact why not share somthing that would be considered "exciting" I suppose?
It used up stamina but it didn't require stamina. I was able to swim most of the way along that zone between Freeport and BB after a linkdeath while the boat zoned. Ahh the painfully boring memories.
mm I dont remember it being that way../shrug
and I dont recall anyone being able to swim from Freeport to BB..if not drowning a mob would've gotten you in most cases, 'n why not just take the boat?
I wasn't able to swim from one to the other, I think you needed the boat to zone ... that or I swam up againts the wrong part of the zone wall which is possible. Swiming the whole way had seemed prefereible then waiting there for the boat to show up again and I was able to invis so wasn't too worried about mobs. I admit it was a mistake
Because I found the wait for boats in EQ1 painfully boring?
As for other modern MMOs, while all of them have an exp or quest grind to some level at least none that I've played recently have the same tidiously large amount of it as EQ1. Sitting in one spot and pulling stuff to the group isn't what I call much fun. I've also yet to spending an hour looking for a group in one dungeon before traveling for an hour to another to find out there were no groups looking for members there either in any modern MMO. For more entertaining then EQ1? EQ2, SWG, CoH/CoV, LotRO have all been more entertaining, none of them are perfect but then I don't expect any game to be.
You couldn't swim to Freeport or Buctcher Block. The only way to zone was the boat. I had the same issue with a buggy boat where I fell through the boat. I swam around the huge Ocean of Tears trying to find where the boat docked as there were no maps at the time. It took quite a while.
All those things sound great on paper, but I think Vanguard proves people aren't as interesting in that kind of experience anymore. As much as I loved EQ I don't believe I would like to play another game that is as time consuming as that one was. All those things you mentioned ended up costing you lots of time even if the experiences were painful enough that you still remember them years after playing the game.
The thing is, is that modern MMO's have done just that: They have thrown quests into the grinder, making them common, boring and repetitive. When you got a quest in one of the older MMO's, they were unique in theyre own right because they were alot more uncommon. "Quests" nowadays shouldnt even be called quests, they should be called "tasks".
When you got a quest, it felt special, it felt unique. The reward was usually unique as well, most of it didnt include a couple gold coins, alot of them included a special item. (At least for the older games I played, havent played EQ - even though they are similar in different areas)
The point is, is that old school quests were unique in theyre own right and made you feel satisfied, and made you actually feel like you were on a quest, and not like now when its just apart of grinding.
The quest rewards in EQ were horrible short of the 30+ content. Most of them were not worth the effort to do. Besides the grinding with no rhym or reason is very boring after you have done it for 5 years in EQ. I felt much better playing WoW and doing these tasks as you call them. Call me a sheep, but there really is no freedom in games anyway. I'd rather have a story here and there regardless if it's generic and boring. Especially quests that advance you through large experience rewards. I guess in the perfect world you would have no levels so rewards wouldn't be as big of a deal.