I fought BoB for a bit over a year - first hunting their wandering gangs, then in the Pendulum War fleet battles as battleship captain (Caldari EW Scorpions and Ravens) and later wing commander of battleship wings, surviving three doomsday events. I also fought the Red Alliance almost daily for control of the D-F 10/10 complex. I was in EDF back then and we had a higher pecentage of people that knew how to fight than the 5 % you mentioned. That included knowledge about :
proper overview settings to minimize lag
second EVE client running hot for quick log in
one to two dozen safespots per system, especially at 100,200 and 400 km (grid loading points) around POS, stations and gates
warp in and align and start to move
concentration of fire, calling primaries
proper POS timer management
etc.
I am familiar with safespot busting ... I am operating a probing ship myself. And members of EDF even busted old safespots WAY OUT where the Red Allaince stashed their plex loot (worth 4 billion in secured anchored containers .. now space dust). Which you could only find with directional scanning and a LOT of time in a fast ship.
-----------
About the BPOs of BoB. I am not talking about the 10 something mediocre BPOs (mostly ammo) they got from T20. Profit from those were nice, but not important. I am talking about the systematic bending of the rules of the T2 BPO lottery that lead to BoB getting many many more BPOs than the other researchers in EVE.
Here is a short summary :
By the officially posted method having a large number of research points is increasing your chances to win a T2 BPO in the lottery. More RP = more lottery tickets = higher chance to win. Naturally most players gravitated to those research agents that gave the maximum possible number of RP per day (modified by skills of course).
Not so BoB (and later, others, as information has leaked out). They have spread out and worked on as many research agents as possible, even the most shitty and incompetent ones. Pray tell, why should they do that ? They are hurting their own chances in the BPO lottery, right ?
NOT ... QUITE ...
basically what CCP did (still does ?) is take a good old dice and first roll what agent gets the BPO. They then look how many pilots work with that agent. They then roll again what pilot gets the BPO (in many cases this was the single lone BoB pilot cause no one in his right mind would work with a shitty low level agent). They seemed to not care a bit how many RP have been amassed. That would have involved some logic and coding and/or following the officially announced method.
End result :
He who covers most agents wins an unproportionally high number of T2 BPO in the lottery and becomes FILTHY rich (especially from T2 ship BPOs). So rich that you can basically start to dominate a single shard game like EVE. Especially if you form or quickly join T2 BPO cartels.
And all this because someone at CCP could not keep his tongue in check when bragging to his buddies in BoB on how UBER and wise (s)he is.
The end of the BPO lottery and the introduction of invention are directly related to this frag up and are CCPs method of damage control/mitigation/attempt to repair a broken game mechanic.
-----------
About exploits :
operative word being "proven". And I see with interest that you also carefully use that word. Its hard to find proof when any proof gets deleted from the database. I personally have witnessed many fishy incidents. As have many of my contacts. All involved suspect behaviour by BoB pilots. And its sad to see that those groups that have a small chance of standing against BoB are those who exploit, lie, metagame and cheat as much as BoB does (with special mention to Red Alliance plex farming/exploiting and Goonies smack talking like there is no tomorrow and intentionally crashing nodes with 1000 pilots). I cannot ask RA your question ... they dont like me very much :-)
-------------
I do not have to believe that an ISD/dev/GM is within BoB ... CCP even admitted it.
-------------
About MMORPG companies admitting errors. When even SOE can admit that they made a serious mistake (--> NGE in SWG) then I expect MUCH more from CCP than a figleaf PR stunt called "Internal Affair division".
The game is not lost for me. To the contrary. But just like in SWG i wont stop pointing out areas that need improvement. Because it will make a game that I care about even better.
Chances of any of this affecting normal users is slim.
What exactly do the "goons" or whatever hope to achieve?
An unfair advantage like the perceived one that BoB has?
Or the closing of the game they seem to have so much invested in? Im sure that will show everyone the error of there ways.
I mean, what do you want?
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
lets put this in perspective. CCP actually respond and investigate issues. Go play a SOE game and then youll understand what not giving a brass razoo about your player base means. rock on ccp, cant wait for the avatars
Come on people. CCP is by far one of the more stand-up development houses.
There are only three options for employees:
1) Don't play the game. Bad idea. This leads to crappy development decisions.
2) Play the game anonymously. This would save them alot of grief but would in all probability lead to increased cheating by employees.
3) Play openly so everyone knows who they are. I much prefer this option (as it seems does CCP) but it will lead to alot of baseless claims against them (and probably some valid claims).
For all the companies where the employees play anonymously, do you really think they aren't cheating to help out their guild/alliance/self? I'd bet that anonymous employees tends to cause *more* cheating (as nobody knows who they are so nobody can blame them).
117 employees is a pretty good sized company. There will probably be abusers in there and the company will investigate them and take care of it in some fashion.
I prefer CCP's open model to most companies' closed investigations/results. As to using an "outsider" to investigate allegations - yeah, right - I've never heard of any game developer (and very few other companies) doing that so why should CCP spend the money and resources to?
Active: D&D Online (alpha,beta,&unlimited)
Retired: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Auto Assault (beta), CoH/CoV, Dark Age of Camelot, Dungeon Runners, Elder Scrolls Online, Everquest, EVE, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online (beta,live), Pathfinder Online (beta), Rift (beta,live), Secret World (beta,live), Star Wars Old Republic, Vanguard (beta), Warhammer (beta,live), World of Warcraft
Errm, CCP's official policy on employee playing is Number 2.
Weeeelllll....
You have already mentioned what this leads to. That some of the things you mentioned have come to light in recent months is at the core of the outcry you have seen and heard about lately.
Greetings Niraco79, I fought BoB for a bit over a year - first hunting their wandering gangs, then in the Pendulum War fleet battles as battleship captain (Caldari EW Scorpions and Ravens) and later wing commander of battleship wings, surviving three doomsday events. I also fought the Red Alliance almost daily for control of the D-F 10/10 complex. I was in EDF back then and we had a higher pecentage of people that knew how to fight than the 5 % you mentioned. That included knowledge about :
proper overview settings to minimize lag second EVE client running hot for quick log in one to two dozen safespots per system, especially at 100,200 and 400 km (grid loading points) around POS, stations and gates warp in and align and start to move concentration of fire, calling primaries proper POS timer management etc.
I am familiar with safespot busting ... I am operating a probing ship myself. And members of EDF even busted old safespots WAY OUT where the Red Allaince stashed their plex loot (worth 4 billion in secured anchored containers .. now space dust). Which you could only find with directional scanning and a LOT of time in a fast ship. ----------- About the BPOs of BoB. I am not talking about the 10 something mediocre BPOs (mostly ammo) they got from T20. Profit from those were nice, but not important. I am talking about the systematic bending of the rules of the T2 BPO lottery that lead to BoB getting many many more BPOs than the other researchers in EVE. Here is a short summary :
By the officially posted method having a large number of research points is increasing your chances to win a T2 BPO in the lottery. More RP = more lottery tickets = higher chance to win. Naturally most players gravitated to those research agents that gave the maximum possible number of RP per day (modified by skills of course).
Not so BoB (and later, others, as information has leaked out). They have spread out and worked on as many research agents as possible, even the most shitty and incompetent ones. Pray tell, why should they do that ? They are hurting their own chances in the BPO lottery, right ?
NOT ... QUITE ...
basically what CCP did (still does ?) is take a good old dice and first roll what agent gets the BPO. They then look how many pilots work with that agent. They then roll again what pilot gets the BPO (in many cases this was the single lone BoB pilot cause no one in his right mind would work with a shitty low level agent). They seemed to not care a bit how many RP have been amassed. That would have involved some logic and coding and/or following the officially announced method.
End result :
He who covers most agents wins an unproportionally high number of T2 BPO in the lottery and becomes FILTHY rich (especially from T2 ship BPOs). So rich that you can basically start to dominate a single shard game like EVE. Especially if you form or quickly join T2 BPO cartels.
And all this because someone at CCP could not keep his tongue in check when bragging to his buddies in BoB on how UBER and wise (s)he is.
The end of the BPO lottery and the introduction of invention are directly related to this frag up and are CCPs method of damage control/mitigation/attempt to repair a broken game mechanic. -----------
About exploits : operative word being "proven". And I see with interest that you also carefully use that word. Its hard to find proof when any proof gets deleted from the database. I personally have witnessed many fishy incidents. As have many of my contacts. All involved suspect behaviour by BoB pilots. And its sad to see that those groups that have a small chance of standing against BoB are those who exploit, lie, metagame and cheat as much as BoB does (with special mention to Red Alliance plex farming/exploiting and Goonies smack talking like there is no tomorrow and intentionally crashing nodes with 1000 pilots). I cannot ask RA your question ... they dont like me very much :-) ------------- I do not have to believe that an ISD/dev/GM is within BoB ... CCP even admitted it. ------------- About MMORPG companies admitting errors. When even SOE can admit that they made a serious mistake (--> NGE in SWG) then I expect MUCH more from CCP than a figleaf PR stunt called "Internal Affair division". The game is not lost for me. To the contrary. But just like in SWG i wont stop pointing out areas that need improvement. Because it will make a game that I care about even better. Have fun
so you were in EDF..interesting cause i was EDF for over 1 year. Yes we had some good pvp guys, but with 20 -30 guys sread all over time zones u don`t make a pvp force to rezista war machine.
T2 bpo - hmmm so now BoB is guilty cause they used game mechanics well ?! c`mon. I am using shitty agents long before i even knew how this work just becoause i do not like doin missiions in big hubs. Is not really the thing. Important is to have 6 agents with full rp going. and preferably more chars doin that. Most guys i know having t2 bpo got them from multiple accounts with multiple reaserch agents. Is a matter of statistic.
They have isk due to a extremely well oiled industry. BoB have access to the T2 cartels (that are not in BoB) and got deals for BoB members, they are doin and runnin like a bussiness with a single goal - to keep the war working. ASCN mighty t2 cartel which was at least 50% of BoB one was doin for their own profits. And u know that. that is the difference - cause a BoB member can take a HAC with 40 mil, while out from BoB can take it with 120 mil.
But this is leadership fault. All these mongeries come from leadership failures. I am reading that hacker site also and lookin how Xirt whixh reborn alliance was destroyed by some mongols (Cult of War alliance) and he is still mockin BoB which he never faced in battle except the first 2-3 weeks of the war.
ASCN fishy incident i can say with all my heart were wrong. Especially the major K-9 incident when ASCN leadership were sayin how bob logged so many before ascn pilots could. But i remember how FC said first to wait before loggin on, then to log off, i remember how 50% who waited 4 hours to do somethin did not listened (including me) and most of them died - i did not died cause i knew what to do to escape.
About PR stunt - what u really want from CCP? What would convince u they are meaning bussiness? That is a good question for all those who attack but never propose solutions. The fact is they did something. Good, Bad dunno but they did.
What i am agreeing with u their PR representative is not doing a very good job. I always thought that even before the scandal.
so you were in EDF..interesting cause i was EDF for over 1 year. Yes we had some good pvp guys, but with 20 -30 guys sread all over time zones u don`t make a pvp force to rezista war machine. --> Agreed. Especially when part of that force is assigned to the defense of the two plexes and therefore your ability to roam around is limited. But EDF had its fair share of FCs and wing commanders in ASCN fleets. T2 bpo - hmmm so now BoB is guilty cause they used game mechanics well ?! c`mon. I am using shitty agents long before i even knew how this work just becoause i do not like doin missiions in big hubs. --> Its not game mechanics. If you would do it according to game mechanics you would run resarch projects for the 6 agents that give the most research points per day. These would give you FAR MORE RP than working with shitty low level agents. And therefore a much better chance to win a BPO. Thats the documented and recommended method. Yes, having SOME low level agents because you dont want to work out of a lagged out hub may occur. But not on such a large scale, organized to cover as many agents as possible all across EVE space ... based on a tip BoB (--> RKK) got from T20 on how the lottery really worked. They have isk due to a extremely well oiled industry. BoB have access to the T2 cartels (that are not in BoB) and got deals for BoB members, they are doin and runnin like a bussiness with a single goal - to keep the war working. --> Agreed. And it did not hurt this industry to have obtained 200-300 high value BPOs as described above. Far more than anyone else in EVE. Even when those entities were running extensive research networks. But those poor sods usually followed the documented method. But this is leadership fault. --> That ASCN fell because of organizational and leadership problems is out of the question. 80 % passive and 20 % active members just does not work in 0.0 ASCN fishy incident i can say with all my heart were wrong. --> What about the ISD guy scouting out POSses in ASCN space that i have seen ? I dont really know a reason why he should systematically warp to every moon in all the surrounding systems when he works as a volunteer for CCP. What about the node death/log on disasters in T-PAR etc. ? When many ASCN already were running hot secondary clients with optimized settings and STILL there were 40-50 BoB logged on already when the first ASCN pilot logged in. Shooting through POS shields (and its was NOT only a password setting problem) ? What about busted deep safespots (busted within a minute) which you cannot easily probe out with a cov ops ship due to scan range of probes ? (I later learned that ISD volunteers have that command to insta jump to someone if you know his name ... that would explain a lot). etc. etc. About PR stunt - what u really want from CCP? What would convince u they are meaning bussiness? That is a good question for all those who attack but never propose solutions. The fact is they did something. Good, Bad dunno but they did. What i am agreeing with u their PR representative is not doing a very good job. I always thought that even before the scandal. --> Dont ban whistleblowers. Talk to them - they may have the info you need to solve a problem. --> Dont answer one trivial point in detail in press releases and conveniently ignore other much more serious points that have been made public. It makes CCP look like they want to hide something. --> Dont moderate the boards to hell when a serious problem is posted - it only triggers an equal and opposite reaction from parts of your community. --> Check out what your volunteers and low level employees as doing, especially the ones you hired recently. --> Kick that darn T2 BPO lottery ASAP..... was a stupid idea in the first place IMHO. CCP already announced they want to do this in the future .. make it weeks, not years. Not CCP SOON (TM) please. Have fun
PS: If you still have access to EDF alumni boards you will know who I am from the way I sign my posts with "Have fun".
Erillion do you actually read your posts, they sound like a broken record.
All I see in your posts is constant references to whimsical events that you have virtually no proof that they ever happened.
Everyone knows the goons would not know a fact if it hit them in the face and you are using their made up documents to prove your points.
The goons agenda is propaganda, they are good at that. Using their information to prove anything is ludicrous.
CCP is an outstanding developer and it is pretty shoddy your trying to slander them just because the game is not going the way you want it to.
I have extreme doubts that any of those fictional events you describe ever happened.
You would think that after the T20 incident someone neutral would have come forth to validate at least some of these accusations, instead, the only ones whining about it are the goons supporters. There is not one shred of evidence provided by anyone except the goons propaganda machine. Pretty obvious there is nothing there.
And BTW don't try lining me up with the BoB camp, my corp is no longer in 0.0 because of them. I detest what they are doing to 0.0 and hope that CCP has something in the works to curb their appetite. There is good cause for change here as the chinese server is stagnating because one corp has a huge portion of 0.0 under it's control. I will wait for CCP to solve that problem as they have solved other issues in the game. What ever they do, it will be gradual as it should be.
a) A lot of the facts - which you call manufactured by Goons - have been verified by me via independent means not related to Goons. When I use other sources (like the screenshot I linked) I say so .. and try to obtain independent verification about that too.
b) The events I described in a post above have been observed by me personally. You call them fictional. ** shrug ** You are entitled to your opinion.
c) I think EVE is a good game and CCP a good gaming company. But I see a decline in quality lately and its important to point such things out early. I have seen it in other games - most notably SWG as a game and SOE as a company. When the game is going in a wrong direction ... which can lead to massive cancellation of subscriptions. I dont want to see that happen in EVE too. So I speak up as early as possible.
With going in the wrong direction I mean that the history of the chinese server that I hear about (one group dominating and the server stagnating) is not what I want to see on Transquility server. Also that right now 0.0 alliance warfare is essentially broken ... utterly boring POS warfare, interspersed with fleet combat that either degenerates to slide shows and node deaths and/ or is dominated by Titans using remote detonated doomsday weapons. Were the individual pilot usually has 3 hours of preparation and 5 seconds of "combat" in front of a frozen or black screen.
Which is wrong. VERY wrong. And CCP's recent move to push high end missions into low security PvP space will attempt to force even the hardcore PvE players to participate in this broken side of EVE PvP. IMHO CCP underestimate the numbers of mostly PvE players, those that will quickly become bored of running the remaining scaled down missions in empire space. And when BoD has conquered 0.0 space I foresee them making a push to dominate low sec space too and with it high end mission running. No thanks !
1. I was one of the 2 guys from EDF who commanded an ASCN fleet. We were not very good seen after our d-f plex war where our call for help was pretty agressive.Maybe after i left EDF there were more, but in the first 2 months only 2 EDF ever lead an ASCN fleet..ah and we never lost to BoB a skirmish in that time ..i think only xenobites pwnd me in a small scale engagement near azn. But in the end when it was an real OP others were preferred. And the system was bad. No secondary target callers. FC "must" be the target caller and other stuff beeing done bad in that old school command system
2. Incomplete is what u say. U should divide at least per domain of agent interest. As u know most T2 cartels are not in BoB. In fact STK had one of biggest T2 collection- too bad they were unsing it somehow not efficient. and of course there is Khartum and his wallet
3. Most of regular EVE players were not playing at the level required, no selfsustaining, multichar operations. I do not agree most of the players could achieve the T2 bpo`s as the t2bpo`s lottery system demand 1.5-2 mil skillpoints invested. Most of them will stop with only 1 agent
4. We agree. BTW i do not think 80% were at sleep, maybe 40%..but corps never acted as one.
5. i will not respond to the isd guy in ascn space, i do not know what u are talkin about. In t-par i was day by day 8 hours per day (playing at that time from work helped). Disaster struck in T-par like in Gq2, poor logging discipline, poor optimized clients. I was able to log as fast as any BoB in each occasion, and lived in each ocasion. Only time i died in those areas were in proper battles.
Busted safespots - deep safes were busted in several occasions with days before and people still using them. BoB covert pilots are very good at what they do. I saw multiple people loggin on in the same place then a single one staying there too much made them all dead and so on for many times. No BoB need to use ISD commands when we had such poor pilots.
6. i agree with t2 lottery. is a nonsense.
rest hmmm, doin the check in for employee on internal system yes. providing the mob with such intel NO.
The mob has a life on it`s own. No matter how u make logic with them, what proofs u show, u will not be trusted. In fact i would never allowed T20 to post that blog. I would removed the bpos, killed t20 chars, punished him in silance and DENIED everything on public, banned every single one who dared to question my denial. I would killed the mob there because it was my bussines, my job to do that as a PR representative. Instead they opened up daring to be naive and think their honest approach will do them any good.
Now look everythink they try to do mob say is a PR stunt.
I am only askin why the mob members even bother to play? Why u pay CCP to give u such insatisfaction?
Comments
Greetings Niraco79,
I fought BoB for a bit over a year - first hunting their wandering gangs, then in the Pendulum War fleet battles as battleship captain (Caldari EW Scorpions and Ravens) and later wing commander of battleship wings, surviving three doomsday events. I also fought the Red Alliance almost daily for control of the D-F 10/10 complex. I was in EDF back then and we had a higher pecentage of people that knew how to fight than the 5 % you mentioned. That included knowledge about :
I am familiar with safespot busting ... I am operating a probing ship myself. And members of EDF even busted old safespots WAY OUT where the Red Allaince stashed their plex loot (worth 4 billion in secured anchored containers .. now space dust). Which you could only find with directional scanning and a LOT of time in a fast ship.
-----------
About the BPOs of BoB. I am not talking about the 10 something mediocre BPOs (mostly ammo) they got from T20. Profit from those were nice, but not important. I am talking about the systematic bending of the rules of the T2 BPO lottery that lead to BoB getting many many more BPOs than the other researchers in EVE.
Here is a short summary :
By the officially posted method having a large number of research points is increasing your chances to win a T2 BPO in the lottery. More RP = more lottery tickets = higher chance to win. Naturally most players gravitated to those research agents that gave the maximum possible number of RP per day (modified by skills of course).
Not so BoB (and later, others, as information has leaked out). They have spread out and worked on as many research agents as possible, even the most shitty and incompetent ones. Pray tell, why should they do that ? They are hurting their own chances in the BPO lottery, right ?
NOT ... QUITE ...
basically what CCP did (still does ?) is take a good old dice and first roll what agent gets the BPO. They then look how many pilots work with that agent. They then roll again what pilot gets the BPO (in many cases this was the single lone BoB pilot cause no one in his right mind would work with a shitty low level agent). They seemed to not care a bit how many RP have been amassed. That would have involved some logic and coding and/or following the officially announced method.
End result :
He who covers most agents wins an unproportionally high number of T2 BPO in the lottery and becomes FILTHY rich (especially from T2 ship BPOs). So rich that you can basically start to dominate a single shard game like EVE. Especially if you form or quickly join T2 BPO cartels.
And all this because someone at CCP could not keep his tongue in check when bragging to his buddies in BoB on how UBER and wise (s)he is.
The end of the BPO lottery and the introduction of invention are directly related to this frag up and are CCPs method of damage control/mitigation/attempt to repair a broken game mechanic.
-----------
About exploits :
operative word being "proven". And I see with interest that you also carefully use that word. Its hard to find proof when any proof gets deleted from the database. I personally have witnessed many fishy incidents. As have many of my contacts. All involved suspect behaviour by BoB pilots. And its sad to see that those groups that have a small chance of standing against BoB are those who exploit, lie, metagame and cheat as much as BoB does (with special mention to Red Alliance plex farming/exploiting and Goonies smack talking like there is no tomorrow and intentionally crashing nodes with 1000 pilots). I cannot ask RA your question ... they dont like me very much :-)
-------------
I do not have to believe that an ISD/dev/GM is within BoB ... CCP even admitted it.
-------------
About MMORPG companies admitting errors. When even SOE can admit that they made a serious mistake (--> NGE in SWG) then I expect MUCH more from CCP than a figleaf PR stunt called "Internal Affair division".
The game is not lost for me. To the contrary. But just like in SWG i wont stop pointing out areas that need improvement. Because it will make a game that I care about even better.
Have fun
People still crying over this?
Chances of any of this affecting normal users is slim.
What exactly do the "goons" or whatever hope to achieve?
An unfair advantage like the perceived one that BoB has?
Or the closing of the game they seem to have so much invested in? Im sure that will show everyone the error of there ways.
I mean, what do you want?
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
There are only three options for employees:
1) Don't play the game. Bad idea. This leads to crappy development decisions.
2) Play the game anonymously. This would save them alot of grief but would in all probability lead to increased cheating by employees.
3) Play openly so everyone knows who they are. I much prefer this option (as it seems does CCP) but it will lead to alot of baseless claims against them (and probably some valid claims).
For all the companies where the employees play anonymously, do you really think they aren't cheating to help out their guild/alliance/self? I'd bet that anonymous employees tends to cause *more* cheating (as nobody knows who they are so nobody can blame them).
117 employees is a pretty good sized company. There will probably be abusers in there and the company will investigate them and take care of it in some fashion.
I prefer CCP's open model to most companies' closed investigations/results. As to using an "outsider" to investigate allegations - yeah, right - I've never heard of any game developer (and very few other companies) doing that so why should CCP spend the money and resources to?
Active: D&D Online (alpha,beta,&unlimited)
Retired: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Auto Assault (beta), CoH/CoV, Dark Age of Camelot, Dungeon Runners, Elder Scrolls Online, Everquest, EVE, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online (beta,live), Pathfinder Online (beta), Rift (beta,live), Secret World (beta,live), Star Wars Old Republic, Vanguard (beta), Warhammer (beta,live), World of Warcraft
Errm, CCP's official policy on employee playing is Number 2.
Weeeelllll....
You have already mentioned what this leads to. That some of the things you mentioned have come to light in recent months is at the core of the outcry you have seen and heard about lately.
Have fun
Erillion
so you were in EDF..interesting cause i was EDF for over 1 year. Yes we had some good pvp guys, but with 20 -30 guys sread all over time zones u don`t make a pvp force to rezista war machine.
T2 bpo - hmmm so now BoB is guilty cause they used game mechanics well ?! c`mon. I am using shitty agents long before i even knew how this work just becoause i do not like doin missiions in big hubs. Is not really the thing. Important is to have 6 agents with full rp going. and preferably more chars doin that. Most guys i know having t2 bpo got them from multiple accounts with multiple reaserch agents. Is a matter of statistic.
They have isk due to a extremely well oiled industry. BoB have access to the T2 cartels (that are not in BoB) and got deals for BoB members, they are doin and runnin like a bussiness with a single goal - to keep the war working. ASCN mighty t2 cartel which was at least 50% of BoB one was doin for their own profits. And u know that. that is the difference - cause a BoB member can take a HAC with 40 mil, while out from BoB can take it with 120 mil.
But this is leadership fault. All these mongeries come from leadership failures. I am reading that hacker site also and lookin how Xirt whixh reborn alliance was destroyed by some mongols (Cult of War alliance) and he is still mockin BoB which he never faced in battle except the first 2-3 weeks of the war.
ASCN fishy incident i can say with all my heart were wrong. Especially the major K-9 incident when ASCN leadership were sayin how bob logged so many before ascn pilots could. But i remember how FC said first to wait before loggin on, then to log off, i remember how 50% who waited 4 hours to do somethin did not listened (including me) and most of them died - i did not died cause i knew what to do to escape.
About PR stunt - what u really want from CCP? What would convince u they are meaning bussiness? That is a good question for all those who attack but never propose solutions. The fact is they did something. Good, Bad dunno but they did.
What i am agreeing with u their PR representative is not doing a very good job. I always thought that even before the scandal.
But i don`t believe in mob power also.
Erillion do you actually read your posts, they sound like a broken record.
All I see in your posts is constant references to whimsical events that you have virtually no proof that they ever happened.
Everyone knows the goons would not know a fact if it hit them in the face and you are using their made up documents to prove your points.
The goons agenda is propaganda, they are good at that. Using their information to prove anything is ludicrous.
CCP is an outstanding developer and it is pretty shoddy your trying to slander them just because the game is not going the way you want it to.
I have extreme doubts that any of those fictional events you describe ever happened.
You would think that after the T20 incident someone neutral would have come forth to validate at least some of these accusations, instead, the only ones whining about it are the goons supporters. There is not one shred of evidence provided by anyone except the goons propaganda machine. Pretty obvious there is nothing there.
And BTW don't try lining me up with the BoB camp, my corp is no longer in 0.0 because of them. I detest what they are doing to 0.0 and hope that CCP has something in the works to curb their appetite. There is good cause for change here as the chinese server is stagnating because one corp has a huge portion of 0.0 under it's control. I will wait for CCP to solve that problem as they have solved other issues in the game. What ever they do, it will be gradual as it should be.
Ciredic,
a) A lot of the facts - which you call manufactured by Goons - have been verified by me via independent means not related to Goons. When I use other sources (like the screenshot I linked) I say so .. and try to obtain independent verification about that too.
b) The events I described in a post above have been observed by me personally. You call them fictional. ** shrug ** You are entitled to your opinion.
c) I think EVE is a good game and CCP a good gaming company. But I see a decline in quality lately and its important to point such things out early. I have seen it in other games - most notably SWG as a game and SOE as a company. When the game is going in a wrong direction ... which can lead to massive cancellation of subscriptions. I dont want to see that happen in EVE too. So I speak up as early as possible.
With going in the wrong direction I mean that the history of the chinese server that I hear about (one group dominating and the server stagnating) is not what I want to see on Transquility server. Also that right now 0.0 alliance warfare is essentially broken ... utterly boring POS warfare, interspersed with fleet combat that either degenerates to slide shows and node deaths and/ or is dominated by Titans using remote detonated doomsday weapons. Were the individual pilot usually has 3 hours of preparation and 5 seconds of "combat" in front of a frozen or black screen.
Which is wrong. VERY wrong. And CCP's recent move to push high end missions into low security PvP space will attempt to force even the hardcore PvE players to participate in this broken side of EVE PvP. IMHO CCP underestimate the numbers of mostly PvE players, those that will quickly become bored of running the remaining scaled down missions in empire space. And when BoD has conquered 0.0 space I foresee them making a push to dominate low sec space too and with it high end mission running. No thanks !
Have fun
1. I was one of the 2 guys from EDF who commanded an ASCN fleet. We were not very good seen after our d-f plex war where our call for help was pretty agressive.Maybe after i left EDF there were more, but in the first 2 months only 2 EDF ever lead an ASCN fleet..ah and we never lost to BoB a skirmish in that time
..i think only xenobites pwnd me in a small scale engagement near azn. But in the end when it was an real OP others were preferred. And the system was bad. No secondary target callers. FC "must" be the target caller and other stuff beeing done bad in that old school command system
2. Incomplete is what u say. U should divide at least per domain of agent interest. As u know most T2 cartels are not in BoB. In fact STK had one of biggest T2 collection- too bad they were unsing it somehow not efficient. and of course there is Khartum and his wallet
3. Most of regular EVE players were not playing at the level required, no selfsustaining, multichar operations. I do not agree most of the players could achieve the T2 bpo`s as the t2bpo`s lottery system demand 1.5-2 mil skillpoints invested. Most of them will stop with only 1 agent
4. We agree. BTW i do not think 80% were at sleep, maybe 40%..but corps never acted as one.
5. i will not respond to the isd guy in ascn space, i do not know what u are talkin about. In t-par i was day by day 8 hours per day (playing at that time from work helped). Disaster struck in T-par like in Gq2, poor logging discipline, poor optimized clients. I was able to log as fast as any BoB in each occasion, and lived in each ocasion. Only time i died in those areas were in proper battles.
Busted safespots - deep safes were busted in several occasions with days before and people still using them. BoB covert pilots are very good at what they do. I saw multiple people loggin on in the same place then a single one staying there too much made them all dead and so on for many times. No BoB need to use ISD commands when we had such poor pilots.
6. i agree with t2 lottery. is a nonsense.
rest hmmm, doin the check in for employee on internal system yes. providing the mob with such intel NO.
The mob has a life on it`s own. No matter how u make logic with them, what proofs u show, u will not be trusted. In fact i would never allowed T20 to post that blog. I would removed the bpos, killed t20 chars, punished him in silance and DENIED everything on public, banned every single one who dared to question my denial. I would killed the mob there because it was my bussines, my job to do that as a PR representative. Instead they opened up daring to be naive and think their honest approach will do them any good.
Now look everythink they try to do mob say is a PR stunt.
I am only askin why the mob members even bother to play? Why u pay CCP to give u such insatisfaction?