Siege Battles and End Game?

Abisbowa · May 2007

I have been thinking about trying this game, and I had a couple of questions before I decide.

I hear that this game has massive siege battles. Is it anything like DAoC? Better, equal to, not as good?

Also, what is considered to be End Game, PvP, raiding, something entirely different?

Thanks in advance!

Sovrath · May 2007

Originally posted by Abisbowa

I have been thinking about trying this game, and I had a couple of questions before I decide.

I hear that this game has massive siege battles. Is it anything like DAoC? Better, equal to, not as good?

Also, what is considered to be End Game, PvP, raiding, something entirely different?

Thanks in advance!

Well, I can't comment on the comparison to DAoC but I can give you a bit of info.

Sieges can be anything from a clan/alliance giving up their castle and just having people waltzin and taking it to absolutely huge battles that can bring your computer to a halt.

Every two weeks, on Saturday and Sunday, the server has it's sieges. It is a scheduled event.

Though any level player can find some way to help, if you are not higher lvl (70+by now) then you will have some issues.

Also, pvp can take place at any time at any level. It is usually clan vs clan fights but you can find 1 vs 1 for hunting areas. Keep in mind, many people are in clans and will oftentimes make it a "clan affair".

There is Raiding but it is not like WoW in that you Raid 24/7. Especially since certain bosses have different spawn times.

Also, there are more epic bosses that take larger alliances and a lot of organization (and time) to pull off.

Abisbowa · May 2007

Ah man, thats too bad. The game looked so good too.

From what you say it sounds kinda like RF Online. No one doing anything but AFK in the mining area.

Alright well, thanks for the info

Sorrowho · May 2007

Originally posted by Abisbowa

Ah man, thats too bad. The game looked so good too. From what you say it sounds kinda like RF Online. No one doing anything but AFK in the mining area.

Alright well, thanks for the info

Martie is right, its sad that ncsoft refuses to do anything about it cause it is a sweet game

http://www.l2guru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77552

(yere i like linking it it beat's player x saying this game bans bot and player y saying they dont)

Sovrath · May 2007

Originally posted by Abisbowa

Ah man, thats too bad. The game looked so good too. From what you say it sounds kinda like RF Online. No one doing anything but AFK in the mining area.

Alright well, thanks for the info

Whoa, wait a minute. The game is not dead.

And it has as many bots as any other games. Otherwise you would have to say that WoW is bot infested as they certainly have enough to service all their servers.

The game has no instances so the bots can't hide. However, NC has been doing these large mass bannings that are very apparent when you look at the server loads.

However, if there are lots of bots then there has to be a clientele that is worth servicing no?

To be more precise, L2 is over 3 years old. It doesn't have the population is once had but it does have a die hard community that is veryy loyal.

Also, to be fair, we don't have a huge influx of players. So essentially, you either know whether or not this is the game for you and you have to work very hard to get to a place where you can get into a good clan/alliance and get the higher lvls.

There is so much that is positive about the game that I can't (and won't list them all). However, if you are not a hardcore grinder, if you can't accept the fact that the game has a very hard economy and that the game is open pvp, then the game is not right for you.

You've got to be driven, a bit obsessive and have a hard skin.

This game does't have fun quests. Period. It doesn't have a huge role player community either so if that is your thing then you might think twice. The updates are free but in my opinion are a bit lackluster. I think NC knows this as the next once seems to be quite large.

You have to be a self starter in this game. If you are one of the types that needs to find groups right up front then move on. Especially since most established clans won't look at you until you are lvl 20 and have passed your first class transfer (and that is for the academy... you will most likely have to be higher lvl for the actual clan unless you get into a casual group).

This game is not really growing but it is not shrinking. It has a pretty established playerbase.

In truth, you have to know who you are in this game. Self starter and thick skinned. If you aren't then try something else. Good Luck

Sorrowho · May 2007

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Abisbowa

Ah man, thats too bad. The game looked so good too. From what you say it sounds kinda like RF Online. No one doing anything but AFK in the mining area.

Alright well, thanks for the info

Whoa, wait a minute. The game is not dead.

True but dosen't have that many people as it used to...

And it has as many bots as any other games. Otherwise you would have to say that WoW is bot infested as they certainly have enough to service all their servers.

if i have to guess i say it has 10x the bots then other games

http://www.l2guru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77552

(yere i like linking it it beat's player x saying this game bans bot and player y saying they dont)

The game has no instances so the bots can't hide. However, NC has been doing these large mass bannings that are very apparent when you look at the server loads.
people always give that excuse just look at the above link 54% has votet in the poll that 90% off the people who plays bot's and farmers arent even in the poll and no i dont belive in they mass bannings you think they ban 90% off the supscribers lol?

However, if there are lots of bots then there has to be a clientele that is worth servicing no?
To be more precise, L2 is over 3 years old. It doesn't have the population is once had but it does have a die hard community that is veryy loyal.
Also, to be fair, we don't have a huge influx of players. So essentially, you either know whether or not this is the game for you and you have to work very hard to get to a place where you can get into a good clan/alliance and get the higher lvls.
There is so much that is positive about the game that I can't (and won't list them all). However, if you are not a hardcore grinder, if you can't accept the fact that the game has a very hard economy and that the game is open pvp, then the game is not right for you.
it has a lot off negatives things to but im to lazy to list em
You've got to be driven, a bit obsessive and have a hard skin.
This game does't have fun quests. Period. It doesn't have a huge role player community either so if that is your thing then you might think twice. The updates are free but in my opinion are a bit lackluster. I think NC knows this as the next once seems to be quite large.
You have to be a self starter in this game. If you are one of the types that needs to find groups right up front then move on. Especially since most established clans won't look at you until you are lvl 20 and have passed your first class transfer (and that is for the academy... you will most likely have to be higher lvl for the actual clan unless you get into a casual group).
This game is not really growing but it is not shrinking. It has a pretty established playerbase.
In truth, you have to know who you are in this game. Self starter and thick skinned. If you aren't then try something else. Good Luck

Sovrath · May 2007

Originally posted by Sorrowho

Originally posted by Sovrath

Whoa, wait a minute. The game is not dead.
True but dosen't have that many people as it used to...

And it has as many bots as any other games. Otherwise you would have to say that WoW is bot infested as they certainly have enough to service all their servers.
if i have to guess i say it has 10x the bots then other games

http://www.l2guru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77552

(yere i like linking it it beat's player x saying this game bans bot and player y saying they dont)

The game has no instances so the bots can't hide. However, NC has been doing these large mass bannings that are very apparent when you look at the server loads.
people always give that excuse just look at the above link 54% has votet in the poll that 90% off the people who plays bot's and farmers arent even in the poll and no i dont belive in they mass bannings you think they ban 90% off the supscribers lol?

However, if there are lots of bots then there has to be a clientele that is worth servicing no?
To be more precise, L2 is over 3 years old. It doesn't have the population is once had but it does have a die hard community that is veryy loyal.
Also, to be fair, we don't have a huge influx of players. So essentially, you either know whether or not this is the game for you and you have to work very hard to get to a place where you can get into a good clan/alliance and get the higher lvls.
There is so much that is positive about the game that I can't (and won't list them all). However, if you are not a hardcore grinder, if you can't accept the fact that the game has a very hard economy and that the game is open pvp, then the game is not right for you.
it has a lot off negatives things to but im to lazy to list em
You've got to be driven, a bit obsessive and have a hard skin.
This game does't have fun quests. Period. It doesn't have a huge role player community either so if that is your thing then you might think twice. The updates are free but in my opinion are a bit lackluster. I think NC knows this as the next once seems to be quite large.
You have to be a self starter in this game. If you are one of the types that needs to find groups right up front then move on. Especially since most established clans won't look at you until you are lvl 20 and have passed your first class transfer (and that is for the academy... you will most likely have to be higher lvl for the actual clan unless you get into a casual group).
This game is not really growing but it is not shrinking. It has a pretty established playerbase.
In truth, you have to know who you are in this game. Self starter and thick skinned. If you aren't then try something else. Good Luck

Well, my thought is that L2blah is the home for more of the "hardcore" players and players who who tend not to like rules. So I would think that that is a subset of the people who actually do post on forums (not all players post on forums).

Since that site will set off security bells I won't be able to check out that poll until I get home.

But "10X" bots? Well I would say more accuratley it is anywhere from "the same" to "100 times more" as there really isn't a way to compare them.

Other games have instances and so who can say how many bots are plying their trade.

Truth: people buy adena and purchase accounts, there is no denying that. And yes they do "do that" in other games.

Also true, in this game there is more impact from people who purchase online items as you are in direct competition with them. But it is possible to be somewhat competitve through hard work. It will take a long time though, even with the easier leveling that the later chronicles have brought.

The problem there is that by the time you get "most of the way there" you are going to get discouraged.

With this game, you are either "an L2 player" or you are not. You can either overlook the bot issue or you can't.

I don't accept the argument that "I can't see the bots in the other games therefore it is "ok" to play that game. Players either like the game or they don't.

Otherwise what it comes down to is "out of sight out of mind". Or "as long as I don't see it then it doesn't matter to me".

So with L2, a player can either learn to live with it or just move on. But then I challenge them to also "move on" from any game that offers online purchase of items.

Ellyrion · May 2007

Originally posted by Abisbowa

I have been thinking about trying this game, and I had a couple of questions before I decide.

I hear that this game has massive siege battles. Is it anything like DAoC? Better, equal to, not as good?

Also, what is considered to be End Game, PvP, raiding, something entirely different?

Thanks in advance!

Indeed L2 does have Siege Battles but as the RvR battles its essentially the reward of the end game.

Sieges in L2 are a little more complex than the linear RvR in DAOC. The siege aspect is multi dimensional.

On the one hand you have the straightforward path of allegiance. That is your clan may either be allied to the defenders or attackers and you may chose to lend your support in accordance with your clan politics. On the other hand you have the Dusk vs Dawn competition. This is not so much as good vs evil or light vs dark but again in a funy twist of lore its more about the ageless conflict between "land owners" or castle owners in this case and "the rebels wanting to overthrow the oppressors" or those that don't own castles.

The basis for the Dusk vs Dawn conflict is both demi religious and designed to transcend clan power blocks. The demi religious aspects are described in the lore behind L2, where the lords of dusk (ie landless) are willing to seek assistance from infernal forces and break the seal of Shilien (a goddess portrayed as somewhat "dark/evil" in her demeanor) in order to use her power to overthrow the current landowners. Predictably the current castle owners will be in direct competition to prevent this through an ingame competitive collection system (known as the seven signs competition) which is tallied on a fortnightly basis just before the siege to see whether either side derives an advantage for the upcoming siege. The political aspects are almost machiavellian where even if you are a castle owning alliance you can lend weight to the Dusk side through allied clans in such a way so as to advance the position of a preferred clan into the circle of landowners, obviously to the detriment of a current castle owner who's alliance you might oppose. It is however a calculated move since by weakening the powers of the castle owners you weaken your own position as well so you must have some solid back up in case you are double crossed

The second reason for this conflict is a tad easier to comprehend as it revolves around pure economics and that is the manor system and land tax. As the lord of a region granted to you by castle ownership you control the taxes in local shops as well as reaping the economic benefits of the manor system as you are able to profit handsomely of the combined seed products which yield all manner of consumable items, most of which are highly sought after by the player population.

Those are the main reasons for the economic struggle to control your PvE environment. I do not know the current conditions for control of the artefacts in DAOC or how they now influence the ability to conduct RvR conflict.

In terms of what is the end game, I would say exactly that which I have just described.

PvP is NOT the end game it is THE means to exert your influence upon your fellow players in order to take control of the PvE environment. PvP is a tool but sadly it has been misrepresented mainly due to the e-bayers (NOT BOTS) . E-bayers have the freedom of purchasing the required consumables in order to conduct PvP. The basis for conflict in L2 is such that you have to EARN your ability to enforce your will upon others. Firstly you have to level up for the skills, secondly you have to make your weapons and armour and thirdly you have to finance your battles/wars as consumables are used up quickly and are both time consuming and expensive to make. The e-bayer throng belongs largely to the PvP crowd which migrated from other games because of the freedom of PvP in L2. Regrettably most were unprepared for the hard work required to build up sufficient resources to wage war effectively, hence the booming of the e-bay demand and subsequent infiltration of the bots into L2, but I digress.

These days the situation is not so unbalanced as both the economy has largely caught up with demand and NCsoft has introduced a number of good money making systems into the game which allow the legit players to make sufficient funds to keep up for short periods of time with the e-bayers in terms of effective all out (resource wise) PvP confrontations during clan wars and sieges. Most PvP tends to focus on sieges as that leads to a fiscal solution for the legit players where they are able to recoup their money invested into the siege. Random PvP is largely a past time for the extremely powerful (and rich) clans or the e-bay crowd as it is completely unproductive and all you end up doing is wasting resources which could be better used elsewhere.

Raiding is pretty much the same as any other MMO's with a mix of easy and hard mobs, some which require political alliances to even attempt, not even mentioning the actual strategy to defeat the mob. PvP often breaks out over raid mobs as you'd expect as the drops from the boss mobs can be quite lucrative and in most cases the PvP is a worthwhile investment into securing a large quantity of crafting materials or the elusive whole item drops. Raiding is NOT and end game activity. Raiding begins around level 20 and goes up progressively up in a linear fashion with the named mobs like The Core, Ant Queen, Orfen, Zaken, Baium, Antharas, Valakas, Frintessa to name a few as some of the "end game" raiding content.

I hope this gives you a good overview of the differences and if you haven't guessed by now, if you are not intending to play actively as part of a group, from pretty much the outset of the game, then as Sovrath suggested this may not be the game for you.

L2 is a competitive, group based game. Loyalty, dedication and trustworhiness to your clanmates are the tennets which define a successful path to the full potential of L2. If those are not the qualities to which you are accustomed from a chosen form of entertainment then as stipulated by others in this thread there are many alternative MMO's which do not require the same level of time investment as L2.

Best of luck to you whatever you may decide,

Regards,

Ellyrion Fiallathandriel

7X Eva's Templar

Kain

common-man · May 2007

The game is not dead and a its just a few posters that are determined to say it is. These few posters dislike the game and are quite vocal about it. If you have a trail give it a try, thats how i got hooked a year ago. It came with the COV box and i've played ever since. Just remember the people that like the game play the game, those that don't post

BLW the above post is better than i can do by far. Well done explaination

Sorrowho · May 2007

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by Sorrowho

Originally posted by Sovrath

Whoa, wait a minute. The game is not dead.
True but dosen't have that many people as it used to...

And it has as many bots as any other games. Otherwise you would have to say that WoW is bot infested as they certainly have enough to service all their servers.
if i have to guess i say it has 10x the bots then other games

http://www.l2guru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77552

(yere i like linking it it beat's player x saying this game bans bot and player y saying they dont)

The game has no instances so the bots can't hide. However, NC has been doing these large mass bannings that are very apparent when you look at the server loads.
people always give that excuse just look at the above link 54% has votet in the poll that 90% off the people who plays bot's and farmers arent even in the poll and no i dont belive in they mass bannings you think they ban 90% off the supscribers lol?

However, if there are lots of bots then there has to be a clientele that is worth servicing no?
To be more precise, L2 is over 3 years old. It doesn't have the population is once had but it does have a die hard community that is veryy loyal.
Also, to be fair, we don't have a huge influx of players. So essentially, you either know whether or not this is the game for you and you have to work very hard to get to a place where you can get into a good clan/alliance and get the higher lvls.
There is so much that is positive about the game that I can't (and won't list them all). However, if you are not a hardcore grinder, if you can't accept the fact that the game has a very hard economy and that the game is open pvp, then the game is not right for you.
it has a lot off negatives things to but im to lazy to list em
You've got to be driven, a bit obsessive and have a hard skin.
This game does't have fun quests. Period. It doesn't have a huge role player community either so if that is your thing then you might think twice. The updates are free but in my opinion are a bit lackluster. I think NC knows this as the next once seems to be quite large.
You have to be a self starter in this game. If you are one of the types that needs to find groups right up front then move on. Especially since most established clans won't look at you until you are lvl 20 and have passed your first class transfer (and that is for the academy... you will most likely have to be higher lvl for the actual clan unless you get into a casual group).
This game is not really growing but it is not shrinking. It has a pretty established playerbase.
In truth, you have to know who you are in this game. Self starter and thick skinned. If you aren't then try something else. Good Luck