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I feel sorry for the Vanguard Players

I just wanted to make a thread saying how sorry I feel for the current VG subscribers enjoying the game and using this forum.



I played it for about a month and have since moved to LOTRO.  I can however truly understand the appeal Vanguard has.  Whatever anybody says about the graphics, playability or execution of VG by Sigil, it has more ambition and depth than most other MMO's out there at the moment in my opinion.  In theory, it's a true 3rd Gen MMO, but has unfortunately been executed short of full potential by Sigil, be that a rush out the door by SOE or lack of precision in Sigil.  Hopefully SOE can make something of it.



To my mind, there is no reason except blatant immaturity for people to trample all over the forum ,slating the game and ruining what start out to be innocent threads.  The person posting screenshots of the game has the post turned into a blatant flamewar between it and any other game the troll pklays themselves.



You know what guys?  There have been a million game reviews that have come out for VG and not one of them said it was anything other than what you've found it out to be.  Youve not been ripped off.  If you believed Brad when he sold the game to you, thats your fault.  When Coke tell me their drink is the tastiest shit on Earth I don't believe them and if your justification is you were ripped off, you're a dumbass.  Read the reviews before you spend your money.  Just play whihever MMO you play, post on that forum, grow up and leave these guys who are having fun alone.  I'm, pretty sure they dont come and troll your games forum..



Leave the people who love the game and have fun to themselves cos you're not telling anyone anything new, or making yourself out to be smart by being a flame-whore.



I hope all the imperfections are ironed out and I can come back and play with you guys one day.  There's a great game under there.  Just a little too far udner for me to tolerate atm :)

Comments

  • CladaClada Member Posts: 168
    Very nice post man

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  • CognetoJoeCognetoJoe Member Posts: 446
    I like the game VS game  battles though , each screenshot is like a playing card

    Good post too
  • NopexNopex Member Posts: 86
    lol.



    Vanguard screenshot diplomacy battles?



    You've been playing too much dude.. :D
  • Die_ScreamDie_Scream Member Posts: 1,785
    I don't recall seeing the new rule at MMORPG that game forums are for fanboys only..When did that - oh right, that never happened. How is it that reading a non-official 3rd party MMO site like this one keeps players from enjoying their game again?



    When they are playing VG, they are just having a rotten time because a thread on MMORPG had been critcal of the game?



    VG Player: "Gee I love this game so much, but dammit! There was a thread on MMORPG which was my choice to read that said VG sucked, so I can't enjoy myself! I better go start a thread demanding only good things are allowed at MMORPG."



    Like it or not, no game ever made only has people saying what you want to hear in the forums, good or bad. I fail to see how the Vanboys are suffering because of this fact of life.



    Me, I am optimistic Sony will save VG, but its almost time to get ready for WAR and AoC, so they have an uphill battle against the clock.




  • UrdigUrdig Member Posts: 1,260
    Originally posted by Die_Scream

    I don't recall seeing the new rule at MMORPG that game forums are for fanboys only..When did that - oh right, that never happened. How is it that reading a non-official 3rd party MMO site like this one keeps players from enjoying their game again?



    When they are playing VG, they are just having a rotten time because a thread on MMORPG had been critcal of the game?



    VG Player: "Gee I love this game so much, but dammit! There was a thread on MMORPG which was my choice to read that said VG sucked, so I can't enjoy myself! I better go start a thread demanding only good things are allowed at MMORPG."



    Like it or not, no game ever made only has people saying what you want to hear in the forums, good or bad. I fail to see how the Vanboys are suffering because of this fact of life.



    Me, I am optimistic Sony will save VG, but its almost time to get ready for WAR and AoC, so they have an uphill battle against the clock.





    It's one thing when someone flames a thread and at least stays on topic.  I mean if you have an opinion on the topic cool, but if you just jump  into any thread that could possibley positive towards the game and flame it to high hell with anything you can think of, not cool. 

    The second type of flaming seems to happen a lot around here.  Make a positive post about VG and watch how long it takes someone to bring up some sort of negetivety completely unrelated to the topic.  Go through and look at some of the posts on other pages that are positive.  Threads turn ugly really fast around here; for no reason other then someone feels they need to discourage others from doing something they didn't like. 

    Wish Darkfall would release.

  • tetsultetsul Member Posts: 1,020
    Originally posted by Urdig



    The second type of flaming seems to happen a lot around here.  Make a positive post about VG and watch how long it takes someone to bring up some sort of negetivety completely unrelated to the topic.  Go through and look at some of the posts on other pages that are positive.  Threads turn ugly really fast around here; for no reason other then someone feels they need to discourage others from doing something they didn't like. 


    ... And then the fans return the favor with the same childish flaming (WoW, crappy computer, troll, etc). You may see some high ground, but I just see the opposite sides of the same coin. The two groups deserve each other.
  • rlm60rlm60 Member Posts: 3

    "when Coke tells me their drink is the tastiest **** on earth I don't believe them"

    Well I believe them, I have never tasted anything better

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 33,913
    Originally posted by Urdig



    The second type of flaming seems to happen a lot around here.  Make a positive post about VG and watch how long it takes someone to bring up some sort of negetivety completely unrelated to the topic.  Go through and look at some of the posts on other pages that are positive.  Threads turn ugly really fast around here; for no reason other then someone feels they need to discourage others from doing something they didn't like. 


    You and the OP seem to be new around here, so let me explain the basics.  By creating a positive thread about VG (or any other major game for that matter) you are inviting one of two responses.  First, you'll get the people who agree with you... and of course, the 2nd are those who will disagree with you, especially when the game is controversial like VG.



    You won't get one without the other.  These forums serve as a place to debate the merits of a game, both good and bad, and everyone is entitled to their opinion regarding them.



    If you don't want to see rebuttals to your positive thread, don't create new threads, its pretty simple.  I've got over 1500 posts and have created like maybe... 5 threads total the entire time I've been here? Why? Because I don't really care to troll for responses from other players, either positive or negative, so I don't bother starting them.  (but I do love to join in)


    "See normal people, I'm not one of them" | G-Easy & Big Sean

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing POE at the moment.

    Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™

    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon






  • UrdigUrdig Member Posts: 1,260
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    Originally posted by Urdig



    The second type of flaming seems to happen a lot around here.  Make a positive post about VG and watch how long it takes someone to bring up some sort of negetivety completely unrelated to the topic.  Go through and look at some of the posts on other pages that are positive.  Threads turn ugly really fast around here; for no reason other then someone feels they need to discourage others from doing something they didn't like. 


    You and the OP seem to be new around here, so let me explain the basics.  By creating a positive thread about VG (or any other major game for that matter) you are inviting one of two responses.  First, you'll get the people who agree with you... and of course, the 2nd are those who will disagree with you, especially when the game is controversial like VG.



    You won't get one without the other.  These forums serve as a place to debate the merits of a game, both good and bad, and everyone is entitled to their opinion regarding them.



    If you don't want to see rebuttals to your positive thread, don't create new threads, its pretty simple.  I've got over 1500 posts and have created like maybe... 5 threads total the entire time I've been here? Why? Because I don't really care to troll for responses from other players, either positive or negative, so I don't bother starting them.  (but I do love to join in)


    Accually I've been around for about 3 years now.

    I wasn't talking about disagreing within the topic of a post, but derailing posts just so that you can tell people the game sucks.

    Wish Darkfall would release.

  • MogglesMoggles Member Posts: 9
    Originally posted by Nopex



    To my mind, there is no reason except blatant immaturity for people to trample all over the forum ,slating the game and ruining what start out to be innocent threads.  The person posting screenshots of the game has the post turned into a blatant flamewar between it and any other game the troll pklays themselves.



    ...



    Leave the people who love the game and have fun to themselves cos you're not telling anyone anything new, or making yourself out to be smart by being a flame-whore.

    Oddly, I found this under 1c of the Merriam-Webster online dictionary when looking up the word "forum:"



    "a medium (as a newspaper or online service) of open discussion or expression of ideas"



    You may not like the substance or tone of a post and the moderators will do the work they need to do to keep things from going off the deep end, but if contrary opinion troubles you so much, perhaps you need to stop reading, you know, forums.
  • TniceTnice Member Posts: 563

    This is a forum to discuss MMOs.  Vanguard one of the biggest failures in MMO history.  If it were not for SOE stepping in at the last minute Vanguard would not have servers active.  Vanguard was made by one of the creators of arguably the first major successful MMO, Everquest.

    Vanguard was an attempt to invalidate the success of one of the most popular games of all times, WoW by putting the "suck" and tedium back into MMOs.  Add to that a very vocal fanbase both positive and negative, $30 million dollars, redux of Verant/SOE relationship, and you have something to talk about.

    Once the game finally goes under completely we will talk a lot at that time.  It is just a matter of when it will happen.  Well maybe they will be able to keep 1 or 2 servers live.  It took several months for Horizons to get to this point also.  First the server merges and then turning the servers off.

  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905

    This isn't an attack in anyway, just a comment:

    I don't feel sorry for the Vanguard or any other players who post here. No one forces anyone to read / write any of the mass amounts of trash thats posted here, my own included. mmorpg.com is a site were the trolls come to do battle with the hard core forum defenders. Take a look at any game here on this site, its same thing. Some knothead troll vomiting some unthoughtout, provoking remark just trying to get a reaction, then the defenders take the bait and post 10 pages of  relies.

    There is very little actual discussion on this site about actual gameplay/community or game focused conversation. The little bit that is posted is usually quickly assaulted by some troll who turns it into a flame battle. Everyone of us here troll this site to argue with the other posters.

    I'm sure Vanguard will eventually shape up to be a fine game, to bad it launched in the condition it was in, it made itself an easy target.

  • bsaerensbsaerens Member Posts: 31

    I don't know why people bash Vanguard so much. To me the game is just fine. Though it might not offer what was originally planned, it still has got lots of fun gameplay elements. Since UO and early SWG I havn't played any mmorpg that has been worthwhile to me. Vanguard changed that. Up untill now, it has been very worthwhile. 

    Due to the high anticipation and hype surrounding the game there are a lot of people left disillusioned. But there is no sense to be bitter about it. If you didn't like the game, so be it... There are lots of other games waiting for you. I really don't understand that people are willing to put time and effort in bashing games they don't even play anymore.

    Anyway, I think Vanguard does have a future. It just isn't a game for everyone. If they just pollish it up and increase performance it will end up well.

  • ReklawReklaw Member UncommonPosts: 6,495
    Originally posted by Tnice


    This is a forum to discuss MMOs.  Vanguard one of the biggest failures in MMO history.  If it were not for SOE stepping in at the last minute Vanguard would not have servers active.  Vanguard was made by one of the creators of arguably the first major successful MMO, Everquest.
    Vanguard was an attempt to invalidate the success of one of the most popular games of all times, WoW by putting the "suck" and tedium back into MMOs.  Add to that a very vocal fanbase both positive and negative, $30 million dollars, redux of Verant/SOE relationship, and you have something to talk about.
    Once the game finally goes under completely we will talk a lot at that time.  It is just a matter of when it will happen.  Well maybe they will be able to keep 1 or 2 servers live.  It took several months for Horizons to get to this point also.  First the server merges and then turning the servers off.
    Okay what part did I not understand maybe? Vanguard failed?, hmm for me Sigil failed as a gaming company but as far i can tell you Vanguard never failed as you say it did. You could try and repeat it many times or make many post about Vanguard failing you might even start to believe it. But still for me only one thing that has failed and thats Sigil as a company. I'm not talking about improvements cause Vanguard needs lots of them, still doesn't make the game a failure.
  • RabidaskalRabidaskal Member Posts: 238

    Prolly most people think it is a 'failure' is because the hype for it was insane.  I didnt really follow the game but whenever I heard of it it was in the context of revolutionary, 3rd gen, Brad the Game God Rockstar, etc etc.  So the game releases and my first thought is Hey!  This isnt Revolutionary! 

    Thats doesnt make it a failure to be sure, but the hype surrounding it practically guaranteed disappointment imo

    I don''t really know when Humankind will die out but i''m guessing about 6 years before WOW.
    -BarCrow

  • IcoGamesIcoGames Member Posts: 2,360

    People can disagree without being disagreeable. There's no reason to enter a debate by personally attacking an individual or group. I've no issue with a detractor of a particular game, but there's no reason to start slinging mud.

    Ico
    Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.

  • Lazarus71Lazarus71 Member UncommonPosts: 1,081
    Originally posted by IcoGames


    People can disagree without being disagreeable. There's no reason to enter a debate by personally attacking an individual or group. I've no issue with a detractor of a particular game, but there's no reason to start slinging mud.

     

    I could'nt have said it better myself!

    No signature, I don't have a pen

  • godpuppetgodpuppet Member Posts: 1,416
    Originally posted by Die_Scream

    I don't recall seeing the new rule at MMORPG that game forums are for fanboys only..When did that - oh right, that never happened. How is it that reading a non-official 3rd party MMO site like this one keeps players from enjoying their game again?



    When they are playing VG, they are just having a rotten time because a thread on MMORPG had been critcal of the game?



    VG Player: "Gee I love this game so much, but dammit! There was a thread on MMORPG which was my choice to read that said VG sucked, so I can't enjoy myself! I better go start a thread demanding only good things are allowed at MMORPG."



    Like it or not, no game ever made only has people saying what you want to hear in the forums, good or bad. I fail to see how the Vanboys are suffering because of this fact of life.



    Me, I am optimistic Sony will save VG, but its almost time to get ready for WAR and AoC, so they have an uphill battle against the clock.

    QFT!



    Whatever your opinion, positive or negative, when you share it with the public community at large you must be prepared to recieve others opinions on the subject and they are not always going to be positive. If you only wish to recieve replys that are in the same light as yours, I suggest you post on silkyvenom.

    ---
    image

  • TniceTnice Member Posts: 563
    Originally posted by Reklaw

    Originally posted by Tnice


    This is a forum to discuss MMOs.  Vanguard one of the biggest failures in MMO history.  If it were not for SOE stepping in at the last minute Vanguard would not have servers active.  Vanguard was made by one of the creators of arguably the first major successful MMO, Everquest.
    Vanguard was an attempt to invalidate the success of one of the most popular games of all times, WoW by putting the "suck" and tedium back into MMOs.  Add to that a very vocal fanbase both positive and negative, $30 million dollars, redux of Verant/SOE relationship, and you have something to talk about.
    Once the game finally goes under completely we will talk a lot at that time.  It is just a matter of when it will happen.  Well maybe they will be able to keep 1 or 2 servers live.  It took several months for Horizons to get to this point also.  First the server merges and then turning the servers off.
    Okay what part did I not understand maybe? Vanguard failed?, hmm for me Sigil failed as a gaming company but as far i can tell you Vanguard never failed as you say it did. You could try and repeat it many times or make many post about Vanguard failing you might even start to believe it. But still for me only one thing that has failed and thats Sigil as a company. I'm not talking about improvements cause Vanguard needs lots of them, still doesn't make the game a failure.

     

    Vanguard, the game, is dying a slow death.  Soon we will post it's obituary.  For whom does the bell toll?  It tolls for Vanguard.  The clock is ticking.  tick...tock..tick...tock...tick..tock

  • RPGBeechRPGBeech Member Posts: 171
    Originally posted by Reklaw



    Okay what part did I not understand maybe? Vanguard failed?, hmm for me Sigil failed as a gaming company but as far i can tell you Vanguard never failed as you say it did. You could try and repeat it many times or make many post about Vanguard failing you might even start to believe it. But still for me only one thing that has failed and thats Sigil as a company. I'm not talking about improvements cause Vanguard needs lots of them, still doesn't make the game a failure.

     

    We both agree that Sigil failed.  No problem there.



    There does seem to be a debate as to whether Vanguard failed or not.  It all depends on

    how you define failure of an MMO.  (We distinguish failure from death since the servers are

    still running, so clearly it is not dead).



    If we define failure of an MMO as being profitable for the game maker (not publisher), it fails.



    If we define failure of an MMO as building on and maintaining its initial subscription base,

    it failed.  (It sold approx 200K boxes and has somewhere between 30 - 50K subscription

    players).



    If you define failure as not meeting the expectations of the prospective customer set (whether

    they were reasonable or unreasonable), it failed.



    If you define failure as not meeting the expectations of the game maker / producer, it failed.



    The opposite of failure is success. 



    I would not call a game successful, if it was the sole product of a company and its release

    drove the company out of business. 



    Success is an attribute that many want to copy or emulate.  Vanguard is what people point

    at to say what NOT to do for an MMO.  There are positive and negative examples.  Perhaps

    there are also negative and positive successes.  Some call a negative success a failure.



    So if Vanguard was not a failure, perhaps it was a success.  If so, please explain why

    Vanguard was a success.  Because I sure don't see it.
  • BrotherGrimBrotherGrim Member Posts: 77
    Originally posted by Nopex

    ...



    ... Youve not been ripped off.  If you believed Brad when he sold the game to you, thats your fault.  When Coke tell me their drink is the tastiest shit on Earth I don't believe them and if your justification is you were ripped off, you're a dumbass.  Read the reviews before you spend your money.  Just play whihever MMO you play, post on that forum, grow up and leave these guys who are having fun alone.  I'm, pretty sure they dont come and troll your games forum..



    Just to be clear: if coke, as the creator of the soft drink,  told me what I was buying was Cherry flavored and it ended up to be lemon, yes, I'd feel ripped off.  That is what has happened.  Brad said the game was ready, he said it was unique and "3rd Generation", he said it would have all these great features. I, as the consumer, figured he was telling the truth.  He was not. I felt ripped off. 



    The reviews will tell me an "objective" (I know, some are biased) view of the game itself: how it plays, graphics, etc.- but if the designers are saying that things are in-game that really are not in-game, than, yes, I'm going to feel ripped off.
  • limbikfreqlimbikfreq Member Posts: 32
    My guess is that a good portion of those who have stuck with vanguard this long are some of its original supporters, many of whom were deeply offended when publishing passed to SOE.  The VG forums were bursting at the seams with SOE is evil -vs- don't worry they are only publishers and can't do anything.  For them to take over and "save" VG would probably be the final straw for many of the remaining players no matter what SOE is able to come up with in the time frame that they are stuck with.  On the other hand, what Sigil did manage was likely dissapointing enough to many of them to re-think their fanatic opposition to SOE.

    image

  • dogdersROCdogdersROC Member UncommonPosts: 21

    Me and a few friends decided to try out LOTRO while we debated the future of VG. We read alot of player and site reviews, all positive, that gave us the green light to spend away. None of us could last 1 week in that game for varying reasons and are back in VG basically 'wasting time'. I was guilty of bashing VG on certain sites during the hiatus, but never bothered to make 1 derogatory post against LOTRO... the difference being I got what I paid for in 1 game and not the other. I think the game can make a small rebound in subs as there arent many choices out there for MMOs and the next ones are due after summer if that.

    If there is a radical change to make VG easier, then we will leave again. This game hasnt gotten any better for us, there arent many alternatives out there, our standards have lowered, we have less fun. I do laugh at your wording 'feel sorry' for the VG players, makes me think of war prisoners.

  • SuttonianSuttonian Member UncommonPosts: 65
    I feel sorry for the vanguard players also.
  • BrotherGrimBrotherGrim Member Posts: 77
    Originally posted by dogdersROC


    ... the difference being I got what I paid for in 1 game and not the other. I think the game can make a small rebound in subs as there arent many choices out there for MMOs and the next ones are due after summer if that.
    ...


    Out of curiousity; what did you not get out of LOTRO that you were promised?  What were you promised in VanGuard that made it into the game? 



    For me, it has been the complete opposite: Brad made a lot of unkept promises; such as player housing, helmet graphics, caravans, interesting and epic travel, mechanisms to release the feeling of "grinding", a working "advanced Encounter System", ect. and I'm curious why you feel the opposite as myself. (eek-gawd, I hope you do not take my question as a flame; as I am ligitamatly curious).
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