World of Warcraft: Selling Gold on BBC

Szark · April 2007

BBC News has run an interesting story about World of Warcraft, discussing virtual trading and gold selling, and the controversy surrounding the issue.

World of Warcraft is a gaming phenomenon, with more than eight million people playing around the world and tens of millions of pounds being earned in revenue each month. But for some this is more business opportunity than leisure pursuit.

The game has its own version of eBay in which players can buy or sell weapons and armour to make their characters more powerful. But just like eBay you need money to buy things - in this case the game's currency is gold.

That gold can be earned by doing jobs like mining or collecting herbs. These jobs aren't difficult but can take a very long time. And that means the game's players are split - between those who can play a lot and generate their own cash, and those who work and don't have the same time to devote to the game.

People who work full time can feel penalised by the system, since it's harder for them to compete. But there is a solution - they can buy their gold for real money.

Read the full article here.

jdong · April 2007

WoW isn't a bad game..it isn't a good game...it's not addicting...and it's not impossible to stop completely playing..WoW is nothing and everything.

It's all good tho.

luccfilho · April 2007

finaly someone stood up for the "buyers" side. Companies don't get any profit with these "illegal" trades, thats why all this mess.

hotwu · April 2007

i can't speak for all games, but i would rather be punched in the balls daily then spend hours upon hours farming for in game currency in WoW. WoW used to have an in game PvP system that catered only to those who could spend their entire lives farming points in game to earn rewards... but they modified the system for the casual players now. if blizzard made it easy enough for casual gamers to get the money they need for the items (mounts), repairs etc ~ if people did not need to spend so much time on brain numbing grinding for this gold there would be no purchasing of gold to begin with. this is a problem blizzard feels should be remedied by mass banning all those accounts of people who are not willing to sell their souls to fly an epic (and the people who are helping fill that need). that's like banning accounts for people who had to tag team on a single account to actually gain rank in their old PvP system (which did happen and made it very difficult for regular players... and impossible for casual gamers). blizzard does everything it can to generate money on china accounts without making it obvious (server transfers for $25, allowing people who have been banned to repurchase WoW and play again ~ in fact blizzard knows for a fact that almost every china account they ban, they will come back, purchase new accounts and start again... they probably see this as a huge boost in sales for the month). until blizzard comes up with a reasonable solution i would simply rather pay someone to farm my gold ~ it comes to about $.03 an hour. at this point in time you are stupid if you don't do it (or just really really really really really poor) in which case you should probably consider selling it.

Soltanis · April 2007

That article from the BBC doesn't talk about the underlining problem that the so called gold farmers are sterotyped to use third party programs, this is where the problem lies not the currency selling.

I feel the whole taboo of virtual currency selling would be less if it was indeed all done by "workers" and not by automated systems.

Daffid011 · April 2007

Yeah, those gold buyers have rights too! Just because they have jobs and stuff they should be allowed to hire people to play the game for them.... Oh wait, that defeats the purpose of playing in the first place.

luccfilho · April 2007

kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk

nothing else needs to be said.

hotwu · April 2007

well, first let's define "playing" a game. i suppose some might consider it as performing the same action over and over and over and over (literally try to say the word "over" in your mind about 200,000 times and you'll still fall short of what i am shooting for here). some people simply want to experience as much of the game as the people with no lives do. don't hate the player, hate the game.

Robbgobb · April 2007

Originally posted by Daffid011

Yeah, those gold buyers have rights too! Just because they have jobs and stuff they should be allowed to hire people to play the game for them.... Oh wait, that defeats the purpose of playing in the first place.

I totally agree with you. I pay to play the game and expect people need to do what I do to get somewhere. Being able to buy gold illegally is hurting my fun. Is one of those things that at some point makes it necessary for all casual players to do if they want to be at the same level as the other casual players.

Originally posted by hotwu

well, first let's define "playing" a game. i suppose some might consider it as performing the same action over and over and over and over (literally try to say the word "over" in your mind about 200,000 times and you'll still fall short of what i am shooting for here). some people simply want to experience as much of the game as the people with no lives do. don't hate the player, hate the game.

I can hate the player for doing something that I think it wrong because it is stated as being a bannable offense. Sony has something set up that makes it ok because it is specific servers and anyone can get in on it by selling or buying. If you are complaining that the game is not fun to play right then maybe you should not play it at all. This is one of those examples that is truly just saying to me "I want it fast food style. Why should I actually put any effort into something when it is easier to pay someone else?". Reading such responses is why it makes it even easier to me wish that the companies took an even tougher stance on such actions. Saying that one does not have the time doesn't work on me. I have found too many people willing to help me and speed me along to believe that it is that hard.

hotwu · April 2007

don't be a retard, if people didn't enjoy the game they would not only not pay for someone to farm gold, they wouldn't pay the monthly fee to play the game. i probably enjoy the game more then you do.
instead of breaking it down in raw numbers let us try to identify, in a deeper way, what is going on here.
on the one hand you have someone who spends his entire day at home in front of his computer playing WoW. this person actually prefers to rely on other people to pay his bills (90% of the time his/her parents are flipping the bill). this person is, on average, 85% whiter then normal people. this person is 98% more likely to cause physical harm to other people because he becomes unable to destinguish he is not really horde IRL. this person has mad mmo respect, phat lootz and flies purples (these are the people WoW caters to). don't pretend like it's possible to be at the top of the game right now without being one of these people (or relying on gold farming to suppliment your efforts).
on the other hand you have someone who works every day, supports himself and maybe a family. actually socializes with other people, perhaps is lucky enough to have someone to go to bed with at night. maybe goes to a party or a movie from time to time (these are the people blizzard will ban for trying to enjoy its game without becoming a human turd).
then you also have the people who make a living working hour after hour doing the same thing over and over for pennies an hour in order to feed their families. they provide a service to people who simply could not enjoy WoW and maintain a responsible life at the same time (these are the people WoW will not only ban, but count on for continued game purchases and monthly revenues).
i like wow in general (i think the expansion was a really good step in the right direction, the price tag kind of demands that though). i have played wow in extremes and i have played wow in balance... the only part i do not enjoy is extreme farming. i still farm, i grind for rep/gold/mats whatever, but i will buy gold when i need it in cases where i can just not justify the time or risk IRL to get where i want to go.

Adythiel · April 2007

I in particular like this little bit from the article.

But is this actually cheating or just saving time? People pay gardeners or decorators to do jobs they don't have the time or inclination to do themselves and they're not accused of cheating when they show off the results.

When was the last time someone that had a gardener or interior designer put that work up in a competition? This is what the people don't get. MMOs are about competition. They have been about competition as far back as MUDs. By buying gold, you are cheating because you are essentially hiring a professional to take care of your garden since you don't have the time to do it. If you don't have the time to properly do what is needed, then you need to stop competing. If something is so repetitive that it's boring, then you need to do something to show the developer you aren't happy with their system. I canceled my WoW account. Blizzard is no longer getting my money because I don't like the system they have in place. Just because there isn't anything else worth playing doesn't mean you have to keep playing something you don't like. It's a big world, people should get out an enjoy it more.

Lemacs · April 2007

Yeha, I would have to dis-agree MMO's are and have all ways been about fun, but having to do meaningless grind for hours just to play, screw that. I 4 one will buy gold over a grind any day.

Mahakali · April 2007

Originally posted by Adythiel

I in particular like this little bit from the article.

But is this actually cheating or just saving time? People pay gardeners or decorators to do jobs they don't have the time or inclination to do themselves and they're not accused of cheating when they show off the results.

When was the last time someone that had a gardener or interior designer put that work up in a competition? This is what the people don't get. MMOs are about competition. They have been about competition as far back as MUDs. By buying gold, you are cheating because you are essentially hiring a professional to take care of your garden since you don't have the time to do it. If you don't have the time to properly do what is needed, then you need to stop competing. If something is so repetitive that it's boring, then you need to do something to show the developer you aren't happy with their system. I canceled my WoW account. Blizzard is no longer getting my money because I don't like the system they have in place. Just because there isn't anything else worth playing doesn't mean you have to keep playing something you don't like. It's a big world, people should get out an enjoy it more.

There is a flaw in comparing this with gardening or cleaning or whatever. This is like paying someone else to play tennis instead of you, and thinking you are getting exercise

merlin83221 · April 2007

okay actualy buying gold isnt cheating in the slightest. when you buy gold you are getting it because someone farmed it, unless they hacked the game to get it then it is illegal, and also the whole system i legal in the first place. someone can just give you gold but they have rights to any benfit you get off the game, and by any if you read the user agrement it basicly means any. and you know what the only trouble is WoW will ban you for no reason. On avarage you can get banned for making a mistake once, aka a bad name. by the way how is the name greenthumbs a bad name for an orc. you might get a warning once then second time get banned. In CoX you would have to do stuff several several times to get banned. some of the names they just find amusing then go sorry but you do have to change it as they are laughing. Blizzard does care about the player, and is too happy to ban someone. Right before the expation came out on the site they made this big post oh how they banned millions of players. now let me think about that most of those players still generate revenue. hmm but they dont care hmm that makes me think oh yeah they dont care about you as long as there is millions playing the game. how many of those bans they braged about were actualy justified. i bet some of them were, like a person hacking. people have been banned using UI's that were not giving an unfair advantage. technacly any person using a UI in WoW is risking getting banned, because at any moment they can decide that that UI is a violation and ban every user using it. And for the people that devot tons of time into makeing really helpful UI's they just steal them. If you have noticed they now have there own quick loot and simular stuff to UI's that have developed them in the first place, and you have to use theres. With the creation of WoW blizzard turned into a money grubing company, cough that is why alot of there devuopment team left. Grats to WoW you really are only of my last choice MMO's, i would rather let CoX get messed up and play it then play your game for the most part.

Dreneth · April 2007

There is no place in the world of MMO's for people who can't actually play a game to get their coin or gear. I work full time, have a family, and manage to get my own gear without having to resort to paying my way through a game. I do not neglect my family or my job, and I have no issue whatsoever.

It's laziness, pure and simple

Ban them all, buyers and sellers alike.

Eindrachen · April 2007

If you don't have the time or inclination to play the game, you shouldn't have subscribed in the first place. Saying that gold-selling should be okay because people have "real lives" outside the game is stupid. Of course people have real lives outside the game. But just because I play two or three other kinds of games (tabletop and live-action among them), get myself out to the Japanese steakhouse and the movie theater once a week or two, and spend some time just hanging out with friends in various places, doesn't make it right to buy gold in any online game.

Paying for in-game gold is exactly the same as using a cheat code in a game to get extra money/resources. If you do it, you forfeit any right to say you are good at the game. People who get there on their own deserve respect; people who take short-cuts and act like that makes them something special deserve nothing but ridicule and spite.

You want respect in anything in life, you have to earn it. We villify athletes who use steroids; we damn well should villify gamers who buy gold.

krumb · April 2007

AMEN Eindrachen!!

Now all I want is a filter for WOW.. stop those who are spamming

'WE selD golD!' ect, ect.

I pay to play! Key word here.. PLAY!

I'm not logging in looking to buy gold, lord knows that there's 200

places to do that out of WOW... DEE DEE DEE!

merlin83221 · April 2007

you know the funny part. the game doesn't revolve around gold. you cant get the best stuff from buying it. IF IT WERN'T FOR THE AH SYSTEM GOLD WOULD MEAN SQUAT! Gold really is just for buying slightly better stuff, required stuff, repair bills, buying skill, and money they take for using some stuff. There is an enconomy system in wow using the ah if people don't care about the gold it can go high or low price for stuff there. the ah created away for people to get a profit for there stuff. Just think if you were playing with a few others you could have all the gold you want and it wouldn't mean a thing. You can ask high lvl players of CoH about that.

Zorvan · April 2007

Originally posted by Dreneth

There is no place in the world of MMO's for people who can't actually play a game to get their coin or gear. I work full time, have a family, and manage to get my own gear without having to resort to paying my way through a game. I do not neglect my family or my job, and I have no issue whatsoever.

It's laziness, pure and simple

Ban them all, buyers and sellers alike.

That about says it all. Agreed.

BizkitNL · April 2007

I honestly don't care whether or not someone buys their ingame gold from a site or earns it the hard way. What I DO mind is the ingame advertising that goldsites do. When I'm running around as an Orc, bashing all sorts of heads in, grunting my way through the realm, the last thing I want to hear is what site I should buy my gold from...

The sites (and their game accounts) should be banned for that reason alone IMO. Sell all the gold you want for all I care, but don't force it upon the uninterested, like me.

digibluez · April 2007

I play it only because the story line is epic,Blizzard has a hand for good stories and quest lines,as fir diablo series, one of the best sellers from all time. I would never go and buy in game money for real cash, and i really do not understand the people who do that. You can earn more money with a lousy job than play to get payed. and all who buy are wannabes who want to be the best ingame, they all have lost the point of games, it is for your own entertainement and fun, as well as socializing meeting new people and so on, not a competition who spends the most time in this game. Open your eyes....

Mors.Magne · April 2007

Originally posted by hotwu

don't be a retard, if people didn't enjoy the game they would not only not pay for someone to farm gold, they wouldn't pay the monthly fee to play the game. i probably enjoy the game more then you do.
instead of breaking it down in raw numbers let us try to identify, in a deeper way, what is going on here.
on the one hand you have someone who spends his entire day at home in front of his computer playing WoW. this person actually prefers to rely on other people to pay his bills (90% of the time his/her parents are flipping the bill). this person is, on average, 85% whiter then normal people. this person is 98% more likely to cause physical harm to other people because he becomes unable to destinguish he is not really horde IRL. this person has mad mmo respect, phat lootz and flies purples (these are the people WoW caters to). don't pretend like it's possible to be at the top of the game right now without being one of these people (or relying on gold farming to suppliment your efforts).
on the other hand you have someone who works every day, supports himself and maybe a family. actually socializes with other people, perhaps is lucky enough to have someone to go to bed with at night. maybe goes to a party or a movie from time to time (these are the people blizzard will ban for trying to enjoy its game without becoming a human turd).
then you also have the people who make a living working hour after hour doing the same thing over and over for pennies an hour in order to feed their families. they provide a service to people who simply could not enjoy WoW and maintain a responsible life at the same time (these are the people WoW will not only ban, but count on for continued game purchases and monthly revenues).
i like wow in general (i think the expansion was a really good step in the right direction, the price tag kind of demands that though). i have played wow in extremes and i have played wow in balance... the only part i do not enjoy is extreme farming. i still farm, i grind for rep/gold/mats whatever, but i will buy gold when i need it in cases where i can just not justify the time or risk IRL to get where i want to go.

A very well written post - I agree with you.

However, our personalities may not be normal! I suspect we are high earning acheivers who gladly pay for a 'Rolls Royce' experience.

I suspect many more people don't mind grinding as much as we do. Therefore, they don't empathise with the need to buy gold.

Umbrood · April 2007

If it does not effect me, then I do not care.

But fact is that it does effect me.

The people who work with gathering virtual currency, in any game, does so with no other objective then to earn as much as possible, regardless of how they come about it.

There is no exploit they would not use, there is nothing they will not do to achieve their goal and if it destroys your gaming experience they do not care.

The problem is that there are people working with the same things you do for leisure, there is no way the different views on the purpose of the game will not clash.

Better then if said companies themself sold the currency, preferably on dedicated servers.

At least that would remove the farmers to a degree.

Kyleran · April 2007

Sigh..rather than argue pointlessly about the "morals" of selling gold..... back to the original topic...

I felt the article was amazing well written for a major news source about a subject they normally have little knowledge about. I suspect the author of the article is a gamer and familiar with the subject matter. Of course, the big thing missing from it is the discussion about the negatives about gold farming... such as in game/forum spamming by sellers, hyperinflation (actual or imagined) of the game economy, possible benefits from farmers (yes, there are some, even to the non-buyers, even when they don't realize it).

Also missing of course is any real discussion why most games are designed to reward people with more time on their hands (like WOW) to play them vs those who don't. (like GW's). Games could be designed without the need for gold buying (take WOW and make mounts cheap, materials for pots/crafting plentiful and basically level set the playing field.) Or heck, be extreme, limit everyone's play time to 2 hours per day, per character... then almost everyone could be competitive.......

Also missing is the fact that game companies actually support gold buying and selling. They could easily identify and remove from circulation almost all gold sellers and buyers if they really wanted to. They choose not to, because that costs them subscriptions. Sure, they make a big deal about banning sellers, because sellers will open a new account and pay another software fee. Buyers will generally leave forever... so enforcement against them is notably less vigorous (except for games like VG..and they can least afford to do it) For the most part their pronouncements of banning are just to appease those opposed to RTM and make them think "action" is being taken.

Wudinna · May 2007

I'm a white collar worker and have time to play about 1 or 2 nights a week and if i'm lucky i get 1 or 2 full wekends to play WoW. The reason i play is that i want to get to level 70 on my own strenght! i love this game and working to make money to buy better gear is all part of the game for me. Just like in RL you work for you cash!

Someone in our guild put it like this "real life is to much about image and WoW should not be like that. You play to escape RL not to get pulled back in". And if you can't be bothered to earn your own money or do your own grinding, ask yourself "why do i play this game?"

Ofcourse it's hard to earn money when your lvl 20, but it all gets easier as you lvl and there is a very good add-on called auctioneer add-on that helps you set a good but reasonabe price for your stuff and keeps track of offer and demand. it also tells you if an object you want to buy is overpriced, so you can choose to buy or not.

Quote Kyrelan:

Also missing of course is any real discussion why most games are designed to reward people with more time on their hands (like WOW) to play them vs those who don't. (like GW's).

The way i see it is that everyone get's the same reward; it's just that the person who plays more get's there faster...

Quote Krumb:

Now all I want is a filter for WOW.. stop those who are spamming

'WE selD golD!' ect, ect

There is also a new add-on to block and report ingame spam and spam-whispers called SpamSentry. The only bug in this is that Blizz only let's you open 1 ticket at a time. Yesterday i had 4 of those messages in 10 mins and had 1 pending ticket.

But i do think that you can't punish the people who buy the gold, but you can bann the people who sell and advertise in game, 'cause that is getting to be a real nuisance!

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World of Warcraft: Selling Gold on BBC

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World of Warcraft: Selling Gold on BBC

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