Caldari HACS

LordSlater · April 2007

Anyway i was thinking of getting a caldari HAC sometime soon for some low sec 0.0 fun with NPC's and players so any recomendations?

Anyway i put one in for the cerabus as thats my current favourate and so i can see the results. Remember i want to both PvP and PvE in 0.0 with this.

Elycion · April 2007

I'd have to go with option C) Neither of the above.

Missile ships aren't the best for PvP, but assuming you want to use one you'd be much better off flying a Drake than either Caldari HAC. A Drake will cost 150 million less, be fully insurable, and easily outfight either HAC.

Assuming for some reason you had no other choice but to fly a HAC, the Cerberus is the only real choice. The Eagle exists only as a collector's item for ship collectors that "Gotta catch 'em all".

Moobkrad · April 2007

Is it the T2 of the Caracal? Cerberus, the one you mean?

I haven't used the Eagle... I'll tell you later after I see an Eagle.

LordSlater · April 2007

The cerabus is the T" version of the Caracel

The eagle is the Moa i think the top level cruiser of the caldari.

Nu11u5 · April 2007

I haven't owned either (though I do have a Nighthawk atm). I can say that definatly in PVE, the Cerberus will be much more usefull than the Eagle (being a missile ship). Its primary benefit is that it can heavily out-range other heavy missile ships while being smaller/faster (compared to a Raven) and easier to tank with its HAC resistances. A Drake would be close in its capabilities, though it still wouldn't have as good as an active tank (don't know how the passive would compare) and would have about 1/2 - 2/3 the range. Damage would be similar.

As for the Eagle, well, I have seen several used in PVP while barely any Cerberus's. They are pretty much the fastest deployable sniper platform you can get and are quite good at it. Also consider that they do this with medium weapons versus a battleship's large and therefore are much more deadly against smaller targets. I was able to witness one strip the shields and quarter armor off a 5km/s interceptor (flying perpendicular mind you) at range in one volley.

If you are looking for a ship for both roles, I don't have enough experience with them to say which is overall better. But, I can say that they seem to excel in very different areas with little overlap.

binjuice · April 2007

And I see the ignorant have struck (relating to the first two posts) Last guy above me, I envy you.... I still dont have enough for a friggin nighthawk.... but I must have her... black ferox..... BLACK ferox!!!!!!!

Anywho...

This is how it goes;

Cerberus:

Highly sort after lvl 4 mission runner and cosmos/rnd/data core mission ship. Can handle all Lvl 4 missions bar vengence (it is impossible to break the last BS's tank in one... believe me) They have around 120-30k range on missles, one hell of an active tank and can flog any kind of damage you want, but as with all caldari ships - gets a bonus to kinetik (bleh). They are viable in both pvp and Pve, but are much prefered to Pve because of 1 the price tag and 2 the fittings cost. Cerberus's need a full t2 missle, shield and low fitting to be of any practical use (as with any HAC) but because of the price of fittings(10-15 mil a launcher and 12-15 a bcu, no drones) you will hardly ever see one in PvP unless it is out ratting in 0.0 and forced into it... They lock slow, have terrible damage against Interceptors (yeah you try to take a crow out with heavies since they were nerfed) and once nossed - are totally and utterly useless... I have mine in reserve in a cosmos constellation.

Eagle:

Extreamly cheap (for a HAC) extreamly diversed use, Sniper boat that can instapop any shuttle, t1 frig, destroyer, and logistic ships. Can kill a interceptor in 10 seconds or less, (this is all with sniper fit) and very capable of insta locking... But thats its "designed" fit, the Eagle actually shines as a blaster boat... possible resists of 79-79-89-89, shield booster, 2x medium nos, 7-12k optimal(ammo) 18k hitting(medium blaster folks) with a renewed insta pop of ceptors, 2 volleys on AF's, can kill Drakes solo, (well non pith booster ones atleast...) has a top speed of 400m/s or 1200 with a MWD (if you can scrape enough PWG and CPU out of her to fit one rather then an ab I will adore your workmanship, mind you NON FACTION) dps of around 270/80, etc etc... Btw this fit has the ability to warp VERY VERY fast... and I mean fast enough for people to think you have inertials and overdrives, Eagle is the single most survivable HAC in game when used in a way not thought... she's just misunderstood as a gun boat in a caldarian lineup.

In conclusion, Cerberus is a NPC ship first, Eagle is a pvp ship first. Eagles can rat in 0.0 if no enamy targets appear, whilst a cerberus needs to refit entirly if it wants to pvp, or if you use a dual fit, your gonne be screwed anyway.

So fro this conclusion, of uses and abilities make a choice.. I specialised in cruiser pvp (thorax are fun things to die in) then ceptor then Caldarian HACs, so believe me - they can be used but are restricted to gangs for the most part, specially the cerb.

PS: Both ships have 0m3 DRONE Space, so that means no drones never.... a POS thing to do imo.

Thankyou,

Binjuice

Moobkrad · April 2007

I do have a question, what does HAC stands for?

I have heard it before, and have an idea of what it's used for but not it's exact meaning.

What Binjuice said about the Eagle is what my friend told me, is quite easy to play warp games with it. A superb ability to stay out of their range and still keep targets within your range. I have never used it, because my ability with turrets is not that good.

Nicoli · April 2007

HAC stands for Heavy Assualt Cruiser. The proper acronym is HAS for Heavy Assualt Ship, but most people use HAC.

Moobkrad · April 2007

Originally posted by Nicoli

HAC stands for Heavy Assualt Cruiser. The proper acronym is HAS for Heavy Assualt Ship, but most people use HAC.

Thanks! I had a cerberus once, I dunno what I was thinking when I sold it.

Jizzlobber85 · April 2007

Cerb is overated as the drake is better. Simply this, Drake has more dps, and better tank but less in agility and range.

However the drake wont be enough to pvp in 0.0. You pretty much need a bs for that. However for missions, the drake is better. IMO of course

lomiller · April 2007

This all seems to be moot point. With the rise of super caps and the likelihood of more automated defenses like gate guns on the way I’m thinking that unless you can fly something *larger* then a Battleship there probably will not be much for a PvPer in 0.0 space. With only a few exceptions BS and smaller will probably end up as PvE mission runners.

porgvin · April 2007

Between the Cerebus and Eagle you want to go with Cerebus mainly because that is a missile ship and Caldari specializes in missile ships. So the skills that go toward Cerebus will also go towards a ship like the Raven. This wil best maximize your skill tree.

Nicoli · April 2007

Originally posted by lomiller

This all seems to be moot point. With the rise of super caps and the likelihood of more automated defenses like gate guns on the way I’m thinking that unless you can fly something *larger* then a Battleship there probably will not be much for a PvPer in 0.0 space. With only a few exceptions BS and smaller will probably end up as PvE mission runners.

I wouldn't say that considering we were dealing with POSes long before there even were capitals. Capitals while they have thier place are very limited in thier abilities.

Moobkrad · April 2007

I don't understand why people keep saying that Caldari is Missiles. Caldari can start with higher missiles skills than other races. But an Amarrian with the same missile skills as a Caldari can be as effective inside a Caracal than any other Caldari. If you specialize your character in hybrid turrets then the Cerberus won't be as effective as the Eagle.

And then after that, comes personal preference and experience.

In my personal experience, I have been successful in PvP with missiles and with those ships that most people say they are bad ships for PvP. The Raven, people say is he best mission runner and worst for PvP. I can relate otherwise. The Drake, The Caracal, The Kestrel, The Cerberus, The Manticore, The Rook, I even got one kill under my belt with a Badger. With exception of the Badger, those are the ones I have driven into battle.

The kill on the Badger (Mark II) was not intentional, I was running away, but my enemy jammed my warp. Only had one railgun. I was transporting hybrid charges to HQ, I was carrying a large amount of ammo of every type. They were two Gallente frigates. One was jamming, webbing and using drones. The other was using turrets on me. Destroyed the drones, then kill the jamming frigate. The other escaped with the tail between it's legs when my friends arrived.

Not everything depends on fitting and skills alone. Wits, experience, and finally preference come into play too.

To the OP, I would recommend the Cerberus. But then, I haven't driven an Eagle. Don't know which would be better in the end.

lomiller · April 2007

Originally posted by Nicoli

Originally posted by lomiller

This all seems to be moot point. With the rise of super caps and the likelihood of more automated defenses like gate guns on the way I’m thinking that unless you can fly something *larger* then a Battleship there probably will not be much for a PvPer in 0.0 space. With only a few exceptions BS and smaller will probably end up as PvE mission runners.

I wouldn't say that considering we were dealing with POSes long before there even were capitals. Capitals while they have thier place are very limited in thier abilities.

With the spread of Titans BS and smaller are no longer a viable way to conduct PoS warfare. 6 Titans mean a DD every 10 min, and there are Alliances capable of building a Titan every 3-4 weeks. This will make it all but impossible to have enough smaller ships in one place to accomplish anything meaningful. Most will die on the first DD including most BS and even a BS fitted to tank a specific DD type will not survive a second.

Without the ability to attack on mass smaller ships can't stand up to a Cap fleet.

Moobkrad · April 2007

Originally posted by lomiller

Originally posted by Nicoli

Originally posted by lomiller

This all seems to be moot point. With the rise of super caps and the likelihood of more automated defenses like gate guns on the way I’m thinking that unless you can fly something *larger* then a Battleship there probably will not be much for a PvPer in 0.0 space. With only a few exceptions BS and smaller will probably end up as PvE mission runners.

I wouldn't say that considering we were dealing with POSes long before there even were capitals. Capitals while they have thier place are very limited in thier abilities.

With the spread of Titans BS and smaller are no longer a viable way to conduct PoS warfare. 6 Titans mean a DD every 10 min, and there are Alliances capable of building a Titan every 3-4 weeks. This will make it all but impossible to have enough smaller ships in one place to accomplish anything meaningful. Most will die on the first DD including most BS and even a BS fitted to tank a specific DD type will not survive a second.

Without the ability to attack on mass smaller ships can't stand up to a Cap fleet.

I don't think many alliances have the resources to build multiple titans. Or even one for that matter. So there can still be some warfare between smaller Corps or Alliances with BS and smaller ships.

lomiller · April 2007

Originally posted by Moobkrad

Originally posted by lomiller

Originally posted by Nicoli

Originally posted by lomiller

This all seems to be moot point. With the rise of super caps and the likelihood of more automated defenses like gate guns on the way I’m thinking that unless you can fly something *larger* then a Battleship there probably will not be much for a PvPer in 0.0 space. With only a few exceptions BS and smaller will probably end up as PvE mission runners.

I wouldn't say that considering we were dealing with POSes long before there even were capitals. Capitals while they have thier place are very limited in thier abilities.

With the spread of Titans BS and smaller are no longer a viable way to conduct PoS warfare. 6 Titans mean a DD every 10 min, and there are Alliances capable of building a Titan every 3-4 weeks. This will make it all but impossible to have enough smaller ships in one place to accomplish anything meaningful. Most will die on the first DD including most BS and even a BS fitted to tank a specific DD type will not survive a second.

Without the ability to attack on mass smaller ships can't stand up to a Cap fleet.

I don't think many alliances have the resources to build multiple titans. Or even one for that matter. So there can still be some warfare between smaller Corps or Alliances with BS and smaller ships.

Alliances that can’t build a Titan are rapidly running out of places to go in 0.0. Even now there are only a handful of alliances that have a hope of hanging onto their space if a Titan + Cap fleet comes calling. It won’t be long before the only way you can stay in 0.0 space is if a) your alliance has multiple Titans and a large Cap fleet or b) you accept being a pet of a larger alliance (I.E. you act as either their cannon fodder or their non PvP farmers.).

porgvin · April 2007

Originally posted by Moobkrad

I don't understand why people keep saying that Caldari is Missiles. Caldari can start with higher missiles skills than other races. But an Amarrian with the same missile skills as a Caldari can be as effective inside a Caracal than any other Caldari. If you specialize your character in hybrid turrets then the Cerberus won't be as effective as the Eagle.

I am talking about Caldari Ships, not the race. So if you are going up the Caldari Ship Tree then your best bet is to concentrate on the Missile Boats. That gives you the most bang for your time. Eventually you want to improve all your fighting skills though.

Nicoli · April 2007

Originally posted by lomiller

Originally posted by Moobkrad

I don't think many alliances have the resources to build multiple titans. Or even one for that matter. So there can still be some warfare between smaller Corps or Alliances with BS and smaller ships.

Alliances that can’t build a Titan are rapidly running out of places to go in 0.0. Even now there are only a handful of alliances that have a hope of hanging onto their space if a Titan + Cap fleet comes calling. It won’t be long before the only way you can stay in 0.0 space is if a) your alliance has multiple Titans and a large Cap fleet or b) you accept being a pet of a larger alliance (I.E. you act as either their cannon fodder or their non PvP farmers.).

It won't happen. Having a titan/MS is great... unfortunately your sacrificing your character to constantly be in that ship. they are ships that is entirely too much of a logistic nightmare to be used in anything but PVP ops and supply run. While a titan is nice to have your character is not making any money and with the threat of possible theft your never going to get out of the ship for the purpose of making money.

Something else to consider is while it is nice to have those ships for large wars in smaller conflicts they are too ponderous for any type of logistical or economic raid. Add to the ability for the smaller faster fleet's ability to avoid and outrun hostile capital forces well mean that capital and titans will remain the main stay of large combat and only till CCP manages to impliment thier ideas to encourage smaller groups of players that are able to quickly move in and target POS and outpost subsystems.

In the end those that rely on thier capital fleet to win wars are going to see themselves constantly out manuevered and normally on the losing size of attrition compared to smaller, mobile, and cheaper conventional forces.

Moobkrad · April 2007

Originally posted by lomiller

Alliances that can’t build a Titan are rapidly running out of places to go in 0.0. Even now there are only a handful of alliances that have a hope of hanging onto their space if a Titan + Cap fleet comes calling. It won’t be long before the only way you can stay in 0.0 space is if a) your alliance has multiple Titans and a large Cap fleet or b) you accept being a pet of a larger alliance (I.E. you act as either their cannon fodder or their non PvP farmers.).

Many alliances that have space, police their systems with small Frigate brigades, assisted by long range Cruisers and Battleships. Mobilizing Titans and Capital ships is a big pain, you need too many skills to effectively use them. Not many players can effectively use a Titan, even if they can build one every month. And even if you have Capital ships in your fleet, you need support from the smaller vessels. A lone Capital ship is vulnerable against a fleet of smaller ships.

This game is about tactics, the winner will be the one that has the strategic upper hand. Or in some cases, that which has the most ships.

Moobkrad · April 2007

Originally posted by porgvin

Originally posted by Moobkrad

I don't understand why people keep saying that Caldari is Missiles. Caldari can start with higher missiles skills than other races. But an Amarrian with the same missile skills as a Caldari can be as effective inside a Caracal than any other Caldari. If you specialize your character in hybrid turrets then the Cerberus won't be as effective as the Eagle.

I am talking about Caldari Ships, not the race. So if you are going up the Caldari Ship Tree then your best bet is to concentrate on the Missile Boats. That gives you the most bang for your time. Eventually you want to improve all your fighting skills though. It was general speaking, I have heard too many times. In other words, I was not pointing the finger at you.

There are Caldari ships that favor Hybrid turrets or ECM skills, not only missiles; take the Rohk for example. Besides taking into consideration that Slater is not new, he surely has his hands delved deep within several other skills. If he is playing with the possibility of going to 0.0 and the possibility of PvP once there with a T2 cruiser. Then he certainly has other T2 modules he can play around with.

LordSlater · April 2007

Originally posted by Moobkrad

Originally posted by porgvin

Originally posted by Moobkrad

I don't understand why people keep saying that Caldari is Missiles. Caldari can start with higher missiles skills than other races. But an Amarrian with the same missile skills as a Caldari can be as effective inside a Caracal than any other Caldari. If you specialize your character in hybrid turrets then the Cerberus won't be as effective as the Eagle.

I am talking about Caldari Ships, not the race. So if you are going up the Caldari Ship Tree then your best bet is to concentrate on the Missile Boats. That gives you the most bang for your time. Eventually you want to improve all your fighting skills though.It was general speaking, I have heard too many times. In other words, I was not pointing the finger at you.

There are Caldari ships that favor Hybrid turrets or ECM skills, not only missiles; take the Rohk for example. Besides taking into consideration that Slater is not new, he surely has his hands delved deep within several other skills. If he is playing with the possibility of going to 0.0 and the possibility of PvP once there with a T2 cruiser. Then he certainly has other T2 modules he can play around with.

I have over 6 mill in gunnery alone and all i can use are railguns so im good

Also my supporting skills such as the Electronic ones mechanic and engineering are all at 5 [barring a few annoying exeptions].

Oh i love the Rokh.

its just that ive just gained the ability to fly a HAC and i wanted to get advice before i decided on one for my deep space raiding missions im planning.

And yes your right i can use most if not all tech 2 mods i will need.

Nicoli · April 2007

be honest for raiding I'd perfer the cerb since it is less range dependant, for defense the Eagle seems to work better as you tend to be able to set the combat range a little better.

binjuice · April 2007

Well dont ask me where that insane POS war argument spouted from but, it might be one of those two deleted comments...

Anyway, all in all an eagle (no matter how you fathom the reasons behind what type of fight etc) is your best bet for PvP, specially because of your 6 mil in gunnery (your potential rail, let alone blaster dps will out rate the cerb hands down) and a rail gunned, with blaster mids and low eagle (so around 120k lock and 150 base Optimal, with range ammo, and 45 with AM, rail t2 close range ammo sucks compared to AM imo) is better then the cerb for its ability to out tank, move faster, warp faster, and hit smaller objects(only t2 ammo give the shtty negative traj bonus) specially for a roaming gang (which unless you plan to sit on a gate (stupid idea unless you have atleast 4 certain ship types) is best... + as always a cerb alone is 200+ mil and is only worth flying with t2 launchers(breaking 250-270 mil) whilst you could get 2 fitted to maybe 3 fitted eagles for the same price, including t2 highs.

Yes, i'm a money grumbler, but thats because I dont see the point of wasting a cerb in pvp combat when 1v1, it is the worst HAC out there. Even the Sac, given time to nos it, could kill it(and we all know how pathetic the sac's dps for a HAC is) But this is all my personal opinion, and this is with going into pvp with both ships, and moa's, caracal's, thorax's, rook's, merlin's, kestral's, crow's, raptor's, flycatcher's, Hawk's, Harpy's, manticore's(lovely 4 man gate camps with these babies, specially in 0.0 hot spots) Raven's, scorps, a rokh(once, but I sold it a day later for 50 mil profit... now the price is getting reasonable) and in *looks* 5-6 days a Nighthawk (purchased and fittings ready to go on board)(btw where yous see a plural, that meands I've lost one of its type, so yeah I know their downfalls)

BTW, my small alliance have taken out Medium and large POS'S with sniper BS fleets, 1-3 caps... it just takes a lot longer then a fully stocked fleet. And to add to the titan PvP argument, Titan's have 1 form of fighting only, find a system under assault by an enamy, jump in and set DD off somewhere where the enamy fleet is. In every single other type of PvP warfare the titan is nothing short of useless.Its big, slow, and god damn easy to run from, but theres also the fact, no alliance will EVER risk it without atleast 100 men supporting it. There is NO argument here, 0.0 will be the place to PvP in any size ship you want (as proven by Agony) and the Cap - titan fleets will be down to Pos killing, and thats around a system a week because no one will dedicate more then a few hours a night weekdays to a game unless they are lifeless drones. and a system full of small POS's is easily constructed as the cap fleets own systems are being destroyed behind it. The whole idea that a Titan and cap fleet is the end all of pvp is ludicrous. yeah they are very useful, but outside of their designed purpose they are short of useless.

LordSlater · April 2007

Well i got myself the Cerb and im verry happy with it.

binjuice · April 2007

Very good choce, gl and long flights

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