for chris sake, people shouldn't have the right to post in an mmorpg forum if they don't even know what is a mmorpg.
why ppl hate ddo? It isNOT a mmorpg. It is the same type ofgame as diablo 2 or Guild War. Everything except for thetown is instanced in that game, and the so call Massive Multiplayer means you always play with 8 dudes in an instance.It is a decent game, butnot a game that make ppl pay monthly payments
traps? first timeit may be fun and exciting, buthow long can the excitment last?
for chris sake, people shouldn't have the right to post in an mmorpg forum if they don't even know what is a mmorpg. why ppl hate ddo? It isNOT a mmorpg. It is the same type ofgame as diablo 2 or Guild War. Everything except for thetown is instanced in that game, and the so call Massive Multiplayer means you always play with 8 dudes in an instance.It is a decent game, butnot a game that make ppl pay monthly payments traps? first timeit may be fun and exciting, buthow long can the excitment last?
...and the fact that they fucked up the D&D ruleset.
While the rules probably had to change to fit the MMO environment, they did a fair enough job of capturing the D&D feel. Grab some buddies, jump into an adventure, etc..
My problem with DDO was that there simply isn't enough game there to warrant the monthly fee. Plus, I find Eberron to be a terribly uninteresting setting. And because there was so little RP story to be found.
Content-wise, the whole doing the same instance over and over became tedious fast. I mean, honestly, you'd think that kobold warlord would simply give up and move towns after getting his skull bashed in by adventurers for the 5000th time...
I hate instanced games. They are not MMORPG's. When you have to meet up in a town to find a party and then enter an instance to actually play, that sucks. Thats why I hate Guild Wars, Dungeon Runners, and DDO. I like to explore. I like open world.
They essentially bastardized the widely loved Dungeons and Dragons game... Diverted from the original design of the game when they made it into an Online game.
If it works fine on the tabletop/ect with your mates then it will work fine online... there is no difference unless one is generated by the devs... which is the problem and what a majority of the people who dislike DDO flame it on.
Thank you to everyone that posted in this thread. My initial question was answered very well. I now understand why.
The funny part is that most of the reasons that I love DDO are the things that many of you dislike. The things that you point out that are missing are the parts of other MMORPG's that I really didn't like.
IMO...
Bad MMORPG things:
1. Open 95% empty world that you can explore. How can you explore? Your sitting at a desk looking at a monitor.
1a. Traveling that takes forever so that you "feel" like the world is big.
1b. Running all over this empty space looking for 30 widgets for a "quest". (You don'y know what a quest is unless you have played DDO.)
2. Fighting the same mobs over and over without any context to get levels.
3. Crafting (If you think this is fun that is fine.) I think it is damn boring.
4. Cookie cutter character customization (I don't mean appearance. I mean actual character stats, powers, and abilities.)
5. Insane amounts of time needs to be spent playing a game to get anywhere or do anything.)
Good MMORPG things:
1. A gigantic number of character options. No trainging wheels please. I've been playing computer RPGs and other RPGs for 23 years thanks.
2. Actual tactical combat
3. Actual quests with storylines that give context to the combat
4. Instant travel
5. I can play for two hours and actually play a game for about 90% of that time
Have a nice day.
Notes:
You can play solo in this game. Some character builds are way better at soloing than others.
To the person that says DDO isn't an MMORPG... Where did you get your masters degree in MMORPG from?
DDO is not for some people. If you want to play an MMORPG 50 hours a week and always play the same character then DDO will probably not be for you. If the game doesn't fit your playstyle that doesn't mean it "sucks".
I have two days remaining on my trial period, so keep in mind my noobishness to DDO with anything I write.
I came to DDO knowing full well it's highly instanced. That's fine, I'm a huge fan of Guild Wars too, and unlike most players, I appreciate change. I don't ask that every single game behaves like every other game in the genre, otherwise there could just be EQ/WoW/AC and nothing else, ever because they would all be the same. When I play GW, I can still very easily immerse myself in that world despite having instanced zones. I can still explore, and GW is one of the few MMORPGs that even today I sometimes explore places and just stop and move the camera around in awe of the scenery. I'm also aware that being instanced, I won't encounter any other human controlled avatars other than those in my group. I'm ok with that, again, I know it going in. If I want a more human controlled population, I have plenty to choose from.
That said, I do think Eberron seems to be a pretty cool world, and I think DDO would benefit from actually having that world realized. The instanced quests are really cool, and lends a personal "this is for this quest only" feel to it. I just did Waterworks last night and the multi-layered instance within an instance was neat. However, I'm *this close* to level 3, and I already find myself wondering what to do, I'm stuck repeating those same quests, which is the DDO equivalent of the Korean grind fest MMOs. Rather than walking outside and playing whack-a-mole on the same herd of mobs for hours on end, I'm having to load an instance, play whack-a-mole with its inhabitants, exit to get my reward, rinse, repeat. I think having the personalized instance-based quests along with quests placed in an open world would give the best of both worlds.
I also don't get the impression that there's any storyline going on in Eberron, rather I'm just picking up quests (many of which so far are "would you do me a favor and...?"). Even if I wanted a sandboxed game where I create my own story, the lack of anything other than instanced quests is preventing that. I like choice. If there were say, one primary "big story" going on in the world, then several "smaller stories" in a particular area, I can have the choice of participating in one, many, or none and doing my own thing, making my own story, depending on what mood I'm in at the time. So far, and again this is only a matter of days playing, but the only choice I see is which instance to do.
I did play D&D (actually AD&D) in school, never touched the d20 system as I'd already moved on from pen and paper RPGs by the time d20 came around. I'm actually finding the thing I dislike the most, or at least that I'm having the most trouble with, is D&D. As soon as I clicked 'create a character' I see the drop menu to select an alignment. Holy crap. I'd forgotten all about character alignments. It's been so long that it really seems more constraining, as well as irrelevant in this day and age. Perhaps in pen and paper where that's all your character is, is that sheet of paper, it was something to remind yourself how you decided this character should behave. But, honestly, haven't we progressed beyond that now? And will someone who's completely new to DDO with no experience whatsoever with the pen and paper game have the slightest idea what that means anyway? Regardless how "lawful" or "good" we choose on the menu, we're still plopped down in an instance where we have to murder everything in it that moves. Item names too... I guess I'm spoiled with newer games over the years actually naming their items instead of the old +2 Axe of Hacking and +3 Sword of Slashing. Seeing the dice rolls, saving throw results... I could do without that. I guess I'd enjoy myself more if DDO were Eberron Online instead, and kept the DD behind the scenes.
Having said this, and re-reading it, it sounds like I'm bashing DDO like so many others before me. I'm not intending to, I'm actually having a really good time playing. One of my original main characters in AD&D was a wizard so I recreated him as best as I could from memory in DDO and I'm having a blast with him. WoW completely destroyed playing a magic user for me, I hated every moment of playing a mage, so I deleted that character finally. DDO got it right, for me anyway. While I do look at the 30 year old game mechanic of limiting spells per day and spell points as archaic by todays standards and todays game mechanics (keeping in mind we're in the video age; I'd imagine having mana regeneration would be a pain in the butt to pen and paper players and GMs) on the flip side of that, knowing you're limited makes you very careful about casting any spells at all because you don't know what's coming next, or haven't located the shrine room yet. So, in a sense, it can add to a strategic element, which is good, rather than being an endless fireball cannon. However, I'm also carrying a ton of scrolls, and have yet to discover how to actually turn the scrolls into a spell. I have the ability on my toolbar, I have tons of "pinches of fine sand" yet every scroll says I lack the components. Apparently I'm blind, since I'm not seeing a list of components I need to buy or otherwise acquire in order to accomplish this.
In short, I'm enjoying my time in the DDO trial, but I can see where a lot of people would not like DDO at all, and obviously I have my own list of gripes. That said, I am at least giving consideration to subscribing, perhaps on and off like I do with City of Heroes, just to gradually see how the game improves and what some of the higher level content is like. But, again I think I'd prefer Eberron Online, with a real world to explore, giving me more choice with what to do with my available time. I like casual-friendly games, I like that I don't have to spend 20 minutes traveling before I'm able to meet up with my group, but I also like to immerse myself in the game, in the character, in the story, the world and environment that I'm in. So far DDO isn't providing me a world, or even a storyline to immerse myself in, and that's a shame. Eberron does seem like a very unique world, and it'd be great if Turbine perhaps turned down the D&D geek factor a bit in order to attract more customers, and actually gave us an Eberron to explore, while keeping the casual mechanics too. If we had an open world, mounts, etc. that's great, that's awesome, but also include a way to group up and assemble the party in a minimum amount of time instead of making everyone ride for hours across the world. There's a perhaps not-so-fine line between immersion and wasting my time, or the time of everyone else in the group.
I bought it didnt make it past the first 30 day's...
Stand in the town walk around LFG for hours do do 1 instance with was the most boring thing ever...
Do same quest 100 times solo hoping to get a group for Water works just so u can move on to the other part of town never leaving the area never seeing anything but a sewer cover on the ground to jump down into
Ya great fun
DDO= Mindless people having fun in a chat room with pictures.
I bought it didnt make it past the first 30 day's... Stand in the town walk around LFG for hours do do 1 instance with was the most boring thing ever... Do same quest 100 times solo hoping to get a group for Water works just so u can move on to the other part of town never leaving the area never seeing anything but a sewer cover on the ground to jump down into Ya great fun DDO= Mindless people having fun in a chat room with pictures.
Wait, let me get this straight, you couldn't get in a group to do water works ?
I bought it didnt make it past the first 30 day's... Stand in the town walk around LFG for hours do do 1 instance with was the most boring thing ever... Do same quest 100 times solo hoping to get a group for Water works just so u can move on to the other part of town never leaving the area never seeing anything but a sewer cover on the ground to jump down into Ya great fun DDO= Mindless people having fun in a chat room with pictures.
Wait, let me get this straight, you couldn't get in a group to do water works ?
Hahahaha!
Funny, good joke! Who cares what other people think? We like it and that's all that matters!
You must not leave until you free Arlos and have gathered your party safely in this hallway.
Its not a bad In-between MMO because you dont have to invest a obsene amount of time . I agree though that DDO did not supply the content that they couldve considering they have so much material to pull from. IMO they shouldve went with Forgotten Realms. All in all not a bad game just not as good as I thought they couldve done with it.
Forgotten Realms has been done to death. I think Eberron was a good choice, getting a new creative environment to play with. Unfortunately they chose to not actually have any world environment other than a few outside zones.
DDO will definitely benefit from LOTRO, though it's already obvious that DDO will be the red-headed stepchild in the family, LOTRO is the new baby getting all the attention. Well-deserved attention, mind you. Who knows, if DDO can at least keep a decent subscriber base and not lose the IP contract, maybe they'll see about shifting the game's paradigm and making it more traditional with a world to explore, but keep DDO's combat mechanics.
I’m just a few days into the free trial, and have to say I’m absolutely loving it. I most likely will be paying for and playing at least a month, then go from there. The “newness” factor obviously hasn’t worn off yet, but as of now, I’m having a ball.
I’ve played mostly all of the popular MMOs, and it seems to me, this one has a different feel than the others. That’s my first impression of the game anyway. No it’s not for the uber leet kiddies who like to brag about how quickly they reached the max level, and how they spend 3 months grinding to get their +53 Sword of Uber Noob slaying. It seems like it’s geared more towards mature-minded people looking for some challenging fun.
I come from the perspective of playing AD&D from the late 70’s early 80’s, so I’m, not crazy about the rule sets that came after that. We didn’t have feats, enhancements, etc, however, it really does give me the feel of adventuring in a true dungeon. It’s quite a nostalgic experience I must say. So, I can’t understand all the talk about how this bastardizes the name of D&D, etc. I just don’t understand that.
I will say the interface is a little “clunky”. The smoothness of the graphics a little “choppy”. Mobs will sometimes move like cardboard cutouts in a shooting gallery, with no leg movement at all. However, these minor things aside, it’s a very immersive experience. I can’t remember a MMO ever making me literally jolt and make me jump a little out of my seat, but this happened to me during one ambush, and when I got hit with a couple of traps (one fire trap in particular I remember).
The arguments that there is no crafting, no housing, not very good character creation in terms of facial and body features means nothing to me. I’m not looking to play with Barbie dolls, I’m looking for good, challenging battles that take a little strategy and planning. The arguments that it isn’t a true MMO…well, I don’t understand either. Label it however you want, it’s fun and that’s all that matters. People apparently need something to pick on, so they pull the "It's not a MMO" card from their deck. /shrug
To the original poster (joker965), I’m very much on board with you regarding liking the things that many people seem to hate. Tactical combat (actually thinking about a battle before charging in), virtually no travel time, very good character customization in terms of abilities…all done very well.
Like I said, maybe once the newness wears off, my opinion will change, but for all of you that were on the fence like me for a while regarding this game. It is most definitely worth trying the free trial. Don’t take my opinion as gospel, nor the hater’s opinions…try it yourself.
I have played just about everything the mmo market, whether it be retail boxed, or korean download only..
I can't say i played any PnP AD&D growing up, but I always played every D&D computer game I could get my hands - from pool of radiance to azure bonds -- most of which were set the Forgotten Realms.
I played EQ for quite a few years until 2005, and I've dabbled in WoW for a month or two at a time. I've finally given up on "waiting for the next big game". I tried DDO when it first came out and although I thought it was very well-made, I was looking for a new EQ at the time, and so I didn't subscribe. I tried it again last year sometime, wit the same result - I was looking for the next EQ, and so I didn't subscribe.
For whatever reasons, I've finally pulled away from the "next EQ" search, as it just doesn't appeal much to me anymore. I tried DDO once again this past week, and I'm now absolutely loving it -- I will be buying it once my trial is up. The game seems about the same, although I know they have improved a lot, and added a lot of new content.
I like DDO now because I am no longer looking for the next EQ or next WoW. DDO is different and unique within the mmorpg field. Once you understand that it's an instance based game, and it's not trying to be EQ, and it's not trying to be WoW, and it's definately not trying to rope in all the L33T speaking teenage crowd, it's a great game -- very well made.
Sure, you may hate it because it's not true-to-D&D rules as much as you'd hoped. To me, it's just an all around good game. I can log in for 20 minutes and get something done, I love the built-in voice chat, the player base is much more mature than other mmo's out there, and the combat is fun and tactical.
So, if you're looking for another EQ, or another WoW, or DAoC, or GW, you won't find it here, and most likely, you won't like it.
DDO is it's own game. It's unique in a lot of ways and once you stop expecting it to be something else, you just might find you really like it.
I agree, I also decided to pick up DDO after the trial ended yesterday. I like it because it's different, and it can be played casually. I just came off a few years of hardcore WoW, and did some other titles fairly hardcore before WoW. I don't need another addictive timesink right now. I was *this close* to jumping into LOTRO (honestly, it's by far the best traditional fantasy MMO I've seen) but I can easily see myself getting sucked into it, and I don't need that in my life right now. That and, I'm looking for something different. I've done 'traditional' and it's all good and fine, but I'm looking for a new style of gameplay. Everyone says that, then they whine when they get it. Ya just have to read most of the haters in the DDO forums for a good example of that. I'm also a huge fan of Guild Wars, which is very non-traditional (and confuses the hell out of the players who just can't wrap their minds around that). I, for one, actually appreciate change and new ideas when I see them.
I did do D&D (ok, actually AD&D, I've never touched this d20 stuff) but typically I just don't care about D&D games. The NWN series... I have zero interest in. Quite frankly even in DDO I'd be fine not seeing the dice rolls, saving throws, and anything else D&Dish. I just don't care. I'm playing the game for the game. Some of the stuff Turbine has done that might differ from the rules, I can understand since when you take a turn-based game like D&D and implement it in real-time, compromises have to be made, and something is bound to get lost in translation. But I do understand the team strives to make DDO as 'by the books' as they can, with more changes coming each month.
One of the red flag reasons why DDO pissed off players, is because it was highly instanced, Everyone wanted a Everquest style MMORPG, except with pure D&D style gameplay. Not just was it instanced, but Unlike Guild Wars, you rarely do anything except explore dungeons. GW instances caves, wildernesses, and the such. DDO it is a rare occasion when you go outside. And yes, the graphics arent the best. But this game would of had alot less hate, if they didnt call it D&D online. The name caused dissapointment that it wasnt the lush beautiful land , (And the occasional evil Dungeon with a fire breathing dragon in it.). I like DDO. But I always think of the monthly fee - the first instanced game I ever played was Guild Wars, and that happened to be the only MMORPG that doesnt have a monthly fee. So when I pay for an instanced game like DDO, it makes me feel weird, like, just go play Guild Wars. I like the story telling and the dungeon exploring is cool but, I do admit it gets old, and the PVP is stale.
One of the red flag reasons why DDO pissed off players, is because it was highly instanced, Everyone wanted a Everquest style MMORPG, except with pure D&D style gameplay. Not just was it instanced, but Unlike Guild Wars, you rarely do anything except explore dungeons. GW instances caves, wildernesses, and the such. DDO it is a rare occasion when you go outside. And yes, the graphics arent the best. But this game would of had alot less hate, if they didnt call it D&D online. The name caused dissapointment that it wasnt the lush beautiful land , (And the occasional evil Dungeon with a fire breathing dragon in it.). I like DDO. But I always think of the monthly fee - the first instanced game I ever played was Guild Wars, and that happened to be the only MMORPG that doesnt have a monthly fee. So when I pay for an instanced game like DDO, it makes me feel weird, like, just go play Guild Wars. I like the story telling and the dungeon exploring is cool but, I do admit it gets old, and the PVP is stale.
Wait a minute, DOO has story? Explain? What does having to kill 40 spiders in a tomb have to do with the overall story?
And I don't blame them, LOTRO has no business having DDO's combat. LOTRO has always been about being a very polished, casual and traditional MMORPG, not about doing some crazy stuff that will turn off the casual player base. Duh...
4) Its all about dungeon crawling over and over and over and over and over...etc
But to be realistic Turbine did take on a job that would be nearly impossible for a bigger company to do, so cant really blame them too much for failing to copy the D&D univers.
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day when he said..Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?...No, but i served in a company of heroes" Sgt. Mike Ranney E-company 506PIR 101'st airborn
I have played just about everything the mmo market, whether it be retail boxed, or korean download only.. I can't say i played any PnP AD&D growing up, but I always played every D&D computer game I could get my hands - from pool of radiance to azure bonds -- most of which were set the Forgotten Realms. I played EQ for quite a few years until 2005, and I've dabbled in WoW for a month or two at a time. I've finally given up on "waiting for the next big game". I tried DDO when it first came out and although I thought it was very well-made, I was looking for a new EQ at the time, and so I didn't subscribe. I tried it again last year sometime, wit the same result - I was looking for the next EQ, and so I didn't subscribe. For whatever reasons, I've finally pulled away from the "next EQ" search, as it just doesn't appeal much to me anymore. I tried DDO once again this past week, and I'm now absolutely loving it -- I will be buying it once my trial is up. The game seems about the same, although I know they have improved a lot, and added a lot of new content. I like DDO now because I am no longer looking for the next EQ or next WoW. DDO is different and unique within the mmorpg field. Once you understand that it's an instance based game, and it's not trying to be EQ, and it's not trying to be WoW, and it's definately not trying to rope in all the L33T speaking teenage crowd, it's a great game -- very well made. Sure, you may hate it because it's not true-to-D&D rules as much as you'd hoped. To me, it's just an all around good game. I can log in for 20 minutes and get something done, I love the built-in voice chat, the player base is much more mature than other mmo's out there, and the combat is fun and tactical. So, if you're looking for another EQ, or another WoW, or DAoC, or GW, you won't find it here, and most likely, you won't like it. DDO is it's own game. It's unique in a lot of ways and once you stop expecting it to be something else, you just might find you really like it.
Oh wow this is exactly the same as me. I tried in back in beta and was looking for the next EQ so bagged it. Now that I am sick and tired of the same button mashing game I am getting started into DDO and really excited about it. Now to drag my old high school buddy and my brother into it muuhahahahahah!!
I'm not totally disagreeing but just playing the Devil's Advocate on a few points:
2) I haven't seen any MMO in quite some time that had any true story to it? Guild Wars is the only one that each campaign has it's own story to work through. Other than that, SWG in the old days had monthly story lines that would affect the world, and... that's just about it.
3) Show me an MMO that isn't combat-based. Most have some crafting, but you have to fight to get your mats to craft. Old SWG is the only one I personally have played that had some non-combat professions for players to roll. Everything else just gives crafting or some form of mini-game (Vanguard's Diplomacy) or other distraction, but the bulk of the content is all combat.
4) As opposed to walking out side and killing 10 rats, then getting a quest to kill 10 spiders, then 10 bears, DDO has you repeat instanced quests. Exact same grind in my book, just has a prettier face.
Wizard's of the Coast have to approve everything Turbine does before it goes live, so if it's 'failing to copy D&D' then it's failing with the owners' approval.
Now, to agree with your points, yes the world is too small. On the one hand, Turbine did a great job of making DDO casual friendly by eliminating travel altogether. On the other (and I'm usually way more hardcore, I just don't have time for it right now) even the very very casual gamers I've played other MMOs with enjoy exploring. To Turbine's credit, now that LOTRO is about to launch they're able to have both teams start working on new content, and DDO just got some huge outdoor areas, and more coming next month including a re-work of some of the existing areas.
I've already stated that I don't know anything at all about d20 and the current D&D game, nor do I care to learn. I decided to subscribe to DDO last week because it's casual-friendly, doing the quests is almost like doing dungeons and raids in other games, and I've never had this much control over my avatar before. For once, my gear doesn't define my block skill, I have to block myself. Or dodge. The quests I've done so far (and I'm only level 3) seem to have some thought behind their design, especially the larger ones, which again is a nice change of pace. Repeating anything gets old, whether it's freely walking outside and grinding mobs or loading an instance and grinding mobs. Apparently crafting is coming soon to DDO too, so we'll see how that goes. All in all, DDO gave us something different. Read almost any forum here, especially in the general area, and everyone whines, cries and begs for different. As soon as we get it, we whine and cry that it's different, why isn't it just like everything else? At least Turbine had the balls to try.
I never exactly hated this game, but it just wasn't my thing and I am a fan of Turbine. I found it tough to get groups and its too hard to solo in. And the groups I did get were like do it and disband, not much of a community in my eyes.
Now that I've been in for a week (give or take a few days due to work) I'm really having a good time. Groups can be difficult to find, but then as in other games, I've taken to starting the group myself and get instant responses. It's quite amazing how many people just stand around idly in so many games waiting for groups instead of just starting a group and getting it over with. One thing I'll say now: so far my experience with PUGs has been incredible. Everyone, and I mean everyone, has been great -- very helpful and mature.
I typically do a lot of solo play in MMORPGs, either due to my work days and hours being out of sync with my friends, or just not in the mood to group sometimes, and I find DDOs solo difficulty setting a bit... difficult... starting at the level 2 medium+ length quests. As for grinding the quests, so far the only thing I've done that on is the level 1 and level 2 short quests on solo difficulty. Not because I had to, but because I wanted to.
All in all, so far I'm pleased with DDO. I never even planned on trying it, but I'm glad I did. After all the other MMOGs I've done, I'm just not in the mood for yet another traditional timesink game over the summer. I can pop into DDO, pick a quest or few to run, and logout. I don't have to commit several nights a week to raiding for 5+ hours at a time, and right now that's what I was looking for.
Comments
for chris sake, people shouldn't have the right to post in an mmorpg forum if they don't even know what is a mmorpg.
why ppl hate ddo? It isNOT a mmorpg. It is the same type ofgame as diablo 2 or Guild War. Everything except for thetown is instanced in that game, and the so call Massive Multiplayer means you always play with 8 dudes in an instance.It is a decent game, butnot a game that make ppl pay monthly payments
traps? first timeit may be fun and exciting, buthow long can the excitment last?
My problem with DDO was that there simply isn't enough game there to warrant the monthly fee. Plus, I find Eberron to be a terribly uninteresting setting. And because there was so little RP story to be found.
Content-wise, the whole doing the same instance over and over became tedious fast. I mean, honestly, you'd think that kobold warlord would simply give up and move towns after getting his skull bashed in by adventurers for the 5000th time...
If it works fine on the tabletop/ect with your mates then it will work fine online... there is no difference unless one is generated by the devs... which is the problem and what a majority of the people who dislike DDO flame it on.
Thank you to everyone that posted in this thread. My initial question was answered very well. I now understand why.
The funny part is that most of the reasons that I love DDO are the things that many of you dislike. The things that you point out that are missing are the parts of other MMORPG's that I really didn't like.
IMO...
Bad MMORPG things:
1. Open 95% empty world that you can explore. How can you explore? Your sitting at a desk looking at a monitor.
1a. Traveling that takes forever so that you "feel" like the world is big.
1b. Running all over this empty space looking for 30 widgets for a "quest". (You don'y know what a quest is unless you have played DDO.)
2. Fighting the same mobs over and over without any context to get levels.
3. Crafting (If you think this is fun that is fine.) I think it is damn boring.
4. Cookie cutter character customization (I don't mean appearance. I mean actual character stats, powers, and abilities.)
5. Insane amounts of time needs to be spent playing a game to get anywhere or do anything.)
Good MMORPG things:
1. A gigantic number of character options. No trainging wheels please. I've been playing computer RPGs and other RPGs for 23 years thanks.
2. Actual tactical combat
3. Actual quests with storylines that give context to the combat
4. Instant travel
5. I can play for two hours and actually play a game for about 90% of that time
Have a nice day.
Notes:
You can play solo in this game. Some character builds are way better at soloing than others.
To the person that says DDO isn't an MMORPG... Where did you get your masters degree in MMORPG from?
DDO is not for some people. If you want to play an MMORPG 50 hours a week and always play the same character then DDO will probably not be for you. If the game doesn't fit your playstyle that doesn't mean it "sucks".
I have fun playing DDO. That is the point right?
Yep it is why I play DDO. I resubscribed this week.
.. .... .- - . - .-. --- .-.. .-.. ... .-- .... --- .-. . .--. --- .-. - .-.-.-
--------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
I came to DDO knowing full well it's highly instanced. That's fine, I'm a huge fan of Guild Wars too, and unlike most players, I appreciate change. I don't ask that every single game behaves like every other game in the genre, otherwise there could just be EQ/WoW/AC and nothing else, ever because they would all be the same. When I play GW, I can still very easily immerse myself in that world despite having instanced zones. I can still explore, and GW is one of the few MMORPGs that even today I sometimes explore places and just stop and move the camera around in awe of the scenery. I'm also aware that being instanced, I won't encounter any other human controlled avatars other than those in my group. I'm ok with that, again, I know it going in. If I want a more human controlled population, I have plenty to choose from.
That said, I do think Eberron seems to be a pretty cool world, and I think DDO would benefit from actually having that world realized. The instanced quests are really cool, and lends a personal "this is for this quest only" feel to it. I just did Waterworks last night and the multi-layered instance within an instance was neat. However, I'm *this close* to level 3, and I already find myself wondering what to do, I'm stuck repeating those same quests, which is the DDO equivalent of the Korean grind fest MMOs. Rather than walking outside and playing whack-a-mole on the same herd of mobs for hours on end, I'm having to load an instance, play whack-a-mole with its inhabitants, exit to get my reward, rinse, repeat. I think having the personalized instance-based quests along with quests placed in an open world would give the best of both worlds.
I also don't get the impression that there's any storyline going on in Eberron, rather I'm just picking up quests (many of which so far are "would you do me a favor and...?"). Even if I wanted a sandboxed game where I create my own story, the lack of anything other than instanced quests is preventing that. I like choice. If there were say, one primary "big story" going on in the world, then several "smaller stories" in a particular area, I can have the choice of participating in one, many, or none and doing my own thing, making my own story, depending on what mood I'm in at the time. So far, and again this is only a matter of days playing, but the only choice I see is which instance to do.
I did play D&D (actually AD&D) in school, never touched the d20 system as I'd already moved on from pen and paper RPGs by the time d20 came around. I'm actually finding the thing I dislike the most, or at least that I'm having the most trouble with, is D&D. As soon as I clicked 'create a character' I see the drop menu to select an alignment. Holy crap. I'd forgotten all about character alignments. It's been so long that it really seems more constraining, as well as irrelevant in this day and age. Perhaps in pen and paper where that's all your character is, is that sheet of paper, it was something to remind yourself how you decided this character should behave. But, honestly, haven't we progressed beyond that now? And will someone who's completely new to DDO with no experience whatsoever with the pen and paper game have the slightest idea what that means anyway? Regardless how "lawful" or "good" we choose on the menu, we're still plopped down in an instance where we have to murder everything in it that moves. Item names too... I guess I'm spoiled with newer games over the years actually naming their items instead of the old +2 Axe of Hacking and +3 Sword of Slashing. Seeing the dice rolls, saving throw results... I could do without that. I guess I'd enjoy myself more if DDO were Eberron Online instead, and kept the DD behind the scenes.
Having said this, and re-reading it, it sounds like I'm bashing DDO like so many others before me. I'm not intending to, I'm actually having a really good time playing. One of my original main characters in AD&D was a wizard so I recreated him as best as I could from memory in DDO and I'm having a blast with him. WoW completely destroyed playing a magic user for me, I hated every moment of playing a mage, so I deleted that character finally. DDO got it right, for me anyway. While I do look at the 30 year old game mechanic of limiting spells per day and spell points as archaic by todays standards and todays game mechanics (keeping in mind we're in the video age; I'd imagine having mana regeneration would be a pain in the butt to pen and paper players and GMs) on the flip side of that, knowing you're limited makes you very careful about casting any spells at all because you don't know what's coming next, or haven't located the shrine room yet. So, in a sense, it can add to a strategic element, which is good, rather than being an endless fireball cannon. However, I'm also carrying a ton of scrolls, and have yet to discover how to actually turn the scrolls into a spell. I have the ability on my toolbar, I have tons of "pinches of fine sand" yet every scroll says I lack the components. Apparently I'm blind, since I'm not seeing a list of components I need to buy or otherwise acquire in order to accomplish this.
In short, I'm enjoying my time in the DDO trial, but I can see where a lot of people would not like DDO at all, and obviously I have my own list of gripes. That said, I am at least giving consideration to subscribing, perhaps on and off like I do with City of Heroes, just to gradually see how the game improves and what some of the higher level content is like. But, again I think I'd prefer Eberron Online, with a real world to explore, giving me more choice with what to do with my available time. I like casual-friendly games, I like that I don't have to spend 20 minutes traveling before I'm able to meet up with my group, but I also like to immerse myself in the game, in the character, in the story, the world and environment that I'm in. So far DDO isn't providing me a world, or even a storyline to immerse myself in, and that's a shame. Eberron does seem like a very unique world, and it'd be great if Turbine perhaps turned down the D&D geek factor a bit in order to attract more customers, and actually gave us an Eberron to explore, while keeping the casual mechanics too. If we had an open world, mounts, etc. that's great, that's awesome, but also include a way to group up and assemble the party in a minimum amount of time instead of making everyone ride for hours across the world. There's a perhaps not-so-fine line between immersion and wasting my time, or the time of everyone else in the group.
I bought it didnt make it past the first 30 day's...
Stand in the town walk around LFG for hours do do 1 instance with was the most boring thing ever...
Do same quest 100 times solo hoping to get a group for Water works just so u can move on to the other part of town never leaving the area never seeing anything but a sewer cover on the ground to jump down into
Ya great fun
DDO= Mindless people having fun in a chat room with pictures.
Hahahaha!
Funny, good joke!
Hahahaha!
Funny, good joke! Who cares what other people think? We like it and that's all that matters!
You must not leave until you free Arlos and have gathered your party safely in this hallway.
DDO will definitely benefit from LOTRO, though it's already obvious that DDO will be the red-headed stepchild in the family, LOTRO is the new baby getting all the attention. Well-deserved attention, mind you. Who knows, if DDO can at least keep a decent subscriber base and not lose the IP contract, maybe they'll see about shifting the game's paradigm and making it more traditional with a world to explore, but keep DDO's combat mechanics.
I’m just a few days into the free trial, and have to say I’m absolutely loving it. I most likely will be paying for and playing at least a month, then go from there. The “newness” factor obviously hasn’t worn off yet, but as of now, I’m having a ball.
I’ve played mostly all of the popular MMOs, and it seems to me, this one has a different feel than the others. That’s my first impression of the game anyway. No it’s not for the uber leet kiddies who like to brag about how quickly they reached the max level, and how they spend 3 months grinding to get their +53 Sword of Uber Noob slaying. It seems like it’s geared more towards mature-minded people looking for some challenging fun.
I come from the perspective of playing AD&D from the late 70’s early 80’s, so I’m, not crazy about the rule sets that came after that. We didn’t have feats, enhancements, etc, however, it really does give me the feel of adventuring in a true dungeon. It’s quite a nostalgic experience I must say. So, I can’t understand all the talk about how this bastardizes the name of D&D, etc. I just don’t understand that.
I will say the interface is a little “clunky”. The smoothness of the graphics a little “choppy”. Mobs will sometimes move like cardboard cutouts in a shooting gallery, with no leg movement at all. However, these minor things aside, it’s a very immersive experience. I can’t remember a MMO ever making me literally jolt and make me jump a little out of my seat, but this happened to me during one ambush, and when I got hit with a couple of traps (one fire trap in particular I remember).
The arguments that there is no crafting, no housing, not very good character creation in terms of facial and body features means nothing to me. I’m not looking to play with Barbie dolls, I’m looking for good, challenging battles that take a little strategy and planning. The arguments that it isn’t a true MMO…well, I don’t understand either. Label it however you want, it’s fun and that’s all that matters. People apparently need something to pick on, so they pull the "It's not a MMO" card from their deck. /shrug
To the original poster (joker965), I’m very much on board with you regarding liking the things that many people seem to hate. Tactical combat (actually thinking about a battle before charging in), virtually no travel time, very good character customization in terms of abilities…all done very well.
Like I said, maybe once the newness wears off, my opinion will change, but for all of you that were on the fence like me for a while regarding this game. It is most definitely worth trying the free trial. Don’t take my opinion as gospel, nor the hater’s opinions…try it yourself.
I have played just about everything the mmo market, whether it be retail boxed, or korean download only..
I can't say i played any PnP AD&D growing up, but I always played every D&D computer game I could get my hands - from pool of radiance to azure bonds -- most of which were set the Forgotten Realms.
I played EQ for quite a few years until 2005, and I've dabbled in WoW for a month or two at a time. I've finally given up on "waiting for the next big game". I tried DDO when it first came out and although I thought it was very well-made, I was looking for a new EQ at the time, and so I didn't subscribe. I tried it again last year sometime, wit the same result - I was looking for the next EQ, and so I didn't subscribe.
For whatever reasons, I've finally pulled away from the "next EQ" search, as it just doesn't appeal much to me anymore. I tried DDO once again this past week, and I'm now absolutely loving it -- I will be buying it once my trial is up. The game seems about the same, although I know they have improved a lot, and added a lot of new content.
I like DDO now because I am no longer looking for the next EQ or next WoW. DDO is different and unique within the mmorpg field. Once you understand that it's an instance based game, and it's not trying to be EQ, and it's not trying to be WoW, and it's definately not trying to rope in all the L33T speaking teenage crowd, it's a great game -- very well made.
Sure, you may hate it because it's not true-to-D&D rules as much as you'd hoped. To me, it's just an all around good game. I can log in for 20 minutes and get something done, I love the built-in voice chat, the player base is much more mature than other mmo's out there, and the combat is fun and tactical.
So, if you're looking for another EQ, or another WoW, or DAoC, or GW, you won't find it here, and most likely, you won't like it.
DDO is it's own game. It's unique in a lot of ways and once you stop expecting it to be something else, you just might find you really like it.
I did do D&D (ok, actually AD&D, I've never touched this d20 stuff) but typically I just don't care about D&D games. The NWN series... I have zero interest in. Quite frankly even in DDO I'd be fine not seeing the dice rolls, saving throws, and anything else D&Dish. I just don't care. I'm playing the game for the game. Some of the stuff Turbine has done that might differ from the rules, I can understand since when you take a turn-based game like D&D and implement it in real-time, compromises have to be made, and something is bound to get lost in translation. But I do understand the team strives to make DDO as 'by the books' as they can, with more changes coming each month.
One of the red flag reasons why DDO pissed off players, is because it was highly instanced, Everyone wanted a Everquest style MMORPG, except with pure D&D style gameplay. Not just was it instanced, but Unlike Guild Wars, you rarely do anything except explore dungeons. GW instances caves, wildernesses, and the such. DDO it is a rare occasion when you go outside. And yes, the graphics arent the best. But this game would of had alot less hate, if they didnt call it D&D online. The name caused dissapointment that it wasnt the lush beautiful land , (And the occasional evil Dungeon with a fire breathing dragon in it.). I like DDO. But I always think of the monthly fee - the first instanced game I ever played was Guild Wars, and that happened to be the only MMORPG that doesnt have a monthly fee. So when I pay for an instanced game like DDO, it makes me feel weird, like, just go play Guild Wars. I like the story telling and the dungeon exploring is cool but, I do admit it gets old, and the PVP is stale.
The reasons I dont like DDO.
1) The world is way too small.
2) Theres no real story
3) Its all combat based
4) Its all about dungeon crawling over and over and over and over and over...etc
But to be realistic Turbine did take on a job that would be nearly impossible for a bigger company to do, so cant really blame them too much for failing to copy the D&D univers.
"I cherish the memories of a question my grandson asked me the other day when he said..Grandpa, were you a hero in the war?...No, but i served in a company of heroes"
Sgt. Mike Ranney E-company 506PIR 101'st airborn
I'm not totally disagreeing but just playing the Devil's Advocate on a few points:
2) I haven't seen any MMO in quite some time that had any true story to it? Guild Wars is the only one that each campaign has it's own story to work through. Other than that, SWG in the old days had monthly story lines that would affect the world, and... that's just about it.
3) Show me an MMO that isn't combat-based. Most have some crafting, but you have to fight to get your mats to craft. Old SWG is the only one I personally have played that had some non-combat professions for players to roll. Everything else just gives crafting or some form of mini-game (Vanguard's Diplomacy) or other distraction, but the bulk of the content is all combat.
4) As opposed to walking out side and killing 10 rats, then getting a quest to kill 10 spiders, then 10 bears, DDO has you repeat instanced quests. Exact same grind in my book, just has a prettier face.
Wizard's of the Coast have to approve everything Turbine does before it goes live, so if it's 'failing to copy D&D' then it's failing with the owners' approval.
Now, to agree with your points, yes the world is too small. On the one hand, Turbine did a great job of making DDO casual friendly by eliminating travel altogether. On the other (and I'm usually way more hardcore, I just don't have time for it right now) even the very very casual gamers I've played other MMOs with enjoy exploring. To Turbine's credit, now that LOTRO is about to launch they're able to have both teams start working on new content, and DDO just got some huge outdoor areas, and more coming next month including a re-work of some of the existing areas.
I've already stated that I don't know anything at all about d20 and the current D&D game, nor do I care to learn. I decided to subscribe to DDO last week because it's casual-friendly, doing the quests is almost like doing dungeons and raids in other games, and I've never had this much control over my avatar before. For once, my gear doesn't define my block skill, I have to block myself. Or dodge. The quests I've done so far (and I'm only level 3) seem to have some thought behind their design, especially the larger ones, which again is a nice change of pace. Repeating anything gets old, whether it's freely walking outside and grinding mobs or loading an instance and grinding mobs. Apparently crafting is coming soon to DDO too, so we'll see how that goes. All in all, DDO gave us something different. Read almost any forum here, especially in the general area, and everyone whines, cries and begs for different. As soon as we get it, we whine and cry that it's different, why isn't it just like everything else? At least Turbine had the balls to try.
Now that I've been in for a week (give or take a few days due to work) I'm really having a good time. Groups can be difficult to find, but then as in other games, I've taken to starting the group myself and get instant responses. It's quite amazing how many people just stand around idly in so many games waiting for groups instead of just starting a group and getting it over with. One thing I'll say now: so far my experience with PUGs has been incredible. Everyone, and I mean everyone, has been great -- very helpful and mature.
I typically do a lot of solo play in MMORPGs, either due to my work days and hours being out of sync with my friends, or just not in the mood to group sometimes, and I find DDOs solo difficulty setting a bit... difficult... starting at the level 2 medium+ length quests. As for grinding the quests, so far the only thing I've done that on is the level 1 and level 2 short quests on solo difficulty. Not because I had to, but because I wanted to.
All in all, so far I'm pleased with DDO. I never even planned on trying it, but I'm glad I did. After all the other MMOGs I've done, I'm just not in the mood for yet another traditional timesink game over the summer. I can pop into DDO, pick a quest or few to run, and logout. I don't have to commit several nights a week to raiding for 5+ hours at a time, and right now that's what I was looking for.