I hope that SoE pays attention

flowercivic · March 2007

Okay you know SoE did something that is not the usual with any of their other titles. You have not seen SWG come out with a vast number of expansions to keep up with the other games, and at one point that was good. Now I think that SoE needs to put on their development caps and get busy as this is a great game that can be made even better. (No I am not going to play Star Trek...I will bang my head into a wall first)

I just recently started playing the game, and my signifant other is a vetran player when it was first released. That was great as he told me what was missing, and what he wished was still there. Now I was totally stoked with the type of future play without killing orcs, goblins, and playing as a caster/healer/tank/scout. It's a change that I found enlightening. The thing that I do notice is that a server merge is needed to populate the other worlds beside Tat. (too many servers not enough people)

People liked pikemen, and other people besides traders want to craft items. Jedi's should not be something that is given from day one, but I thought the idea of mastering and working to become a Jedi was something that people looked foward to earning. Granted my enterainer can whip up some enterainer items, but I wanted to be able to make outfits too. The lack of people, and only one class to craft is hurting the overall marketplace.

Levels happen to be an evil that I think we will not escape, but is that so bad? Granted I see that having the skill trees must have been the bomb back in the days, but I think SoE intentions were to bring the more "less" core gamer into the picture to keep the world(s) populated. However; I also think that they could have also went along with the idea to bring more content to the table, and also bring a little more to the tutorial to teach people about the interface, communication, crafting, etc.

Here are a few things that I personally would like to see in either an expansion, or a overhaul...

Bring back the old professions that made our vets sing with glee, and provide more content to those that are new. (Maybe even come up with some new ones! Oh and bring back creature trainers!!!)
There are so many races within Star Wars, and you can expand on that so much that it's just exciting to think about. (Think about being owned by an ewok!)
Update the graphics engine
Rework the chat system so it's easier to communicate
Always add more rides, and housing options. (Maybe a tree house for ewoks, crashed ships, or something to that effect)
Recruitment areas for guilds... I don't even know where to start still (maybe a message board in the public areas, and a board of FAQ's for those that have Guild Halls)
Others please elaborate on what you too would feel improve your overall gaming experience within this game.

Flame or no flame it's all the same... we are all here to play some games!

iskareot · March 2007

The problem you have here is the "fact of the matter", with the product.

If you look at it as a business investment SWG as you have just figured out based on "no real game progress" not to mention the thought of server mergers (Per the president of the company and his statements) not to mention the empty servers that are out there no matter what some want to believe, there is no future for a expansion.

Now then, sure with the small team they have left in place they can add "content" and should be for free anyway, the thought of them HAVING TO ASK YOU IF YOU WANT CONTENT IN THIS PRODUCT IS A INSULT to it's customer base.

If you honestly think that one person would say "NO" or has EVER said "NO" to content in SWG then you need to do some research on that subject. Not one person EVER has said on the forums or at a summit meeting, fan fest... "DO NOT GIVE ME CONTENT"... so with that vote the other day on the forums, it was pretty much a dog and pony show that just shows how desperate people are JUST to see it said.

The Team should have never asked that question....it is not like they do what the playerbase has ever said to them anyaway, so why start now?

This product is now fillied with mini hope "pockets" when pubs come out --- it is filled with old vets, with magic hope when they or IF they pay for a month they will log in and see thier friends lists again or hundreds of thousands of people etc... they hope to see a bug free or more polished game with less jerky play and more SIM type gaming... vs ARCADE style.

The probelem you want solved is one we wanted solved when the product had more of a chance or future. Right now people assume that Blix the Dev is some sort of savior when in fact alot of us know he is in over his head and will not be able to live up TO ANY kind of flash back population or product fun level, it just can't happen because the trust, game or playerbase is just not there.

What you are asking for is simply a new SWG -- well, get in line because we all want this as well. As a major fan of Star Wars, like the other billion in the world it is sad to say that 99% of them do NOT play SWG... Why??? Think about it.... the only Star Wars game in the world you can play online if your a fan???? And they have to merge servers??????? Gosh oh golly why??? ---

Because the product speaks for itself. It did not obtain the bad awards for being a good product, it got them for being what it is.

So in the end you have asked the question they we did many many times as vets or people who quit... The NGE was a mistake, this has been said over and over, it is just plain common sense and logic at this point. If one person thinks it was good for the game then that person better play on his or her server while they can before they merge it maybe due to low population.

I have to think that right now there is another SW MMO in the pipe, the IP is a business franchise that could make money. SWG as we know it is really at year 4 and not worth a investment now. Think about this... if you could make a new one, with the same cost... with a less tainted title, history or contract what would you do?? Think about all the things you want in the game... would it not be easier to start with clean code a new team and a fresh start with a consumer base that KNOWS anything could be better then the NGE version of SWG???

As a older consumer I have to use just plain common sense and logic when buying somthing, to invest time and my entertainment value in. I just have to hope that while sure, a younger crowd plays SWG now that there is still some wise young people that do see some of the issues with SWG and it's future.

I understand what your saying, but your asking for somthing that is so far removed from what SWG is or can do now that it's just not there.

Again... just ask yourself... How many Star Wars fans there is in the world and how many people play SWG... and they ask why? --

I know alot of us are hoping for a new SW MMO...I know I am... I hope that SOMEONE learns from SOEs mistakes and of what NOT to do to a MMO let alone a SW MMO... Cannon is king, with content and depth... the sandbox can work but HAVING THE OPTION to have both is obviously important.

There should be goals and risks, vs just giving things away with no effort at all.

Lets hope that who gets the IP next does not mess up like SOE did..... at this point that is all you can hope for.

Isk

RainStar · March 2007

I don't think Jedi should be a starter profession and I wish they'd bring back the village.

The old battlegrounds that are still in game could be put to use.....then again, some felt the need to exploit that.

Obraik · March 2007

It was inevitable that Jedi was going to become easier to play but less powerful since Jedi was never hard to achieve, it only ever took time. Having an alpha profession was also a mistake from the start. Of course nearly everyone wanted to be that profession, who wouldn't want to be the toughest profession in the game? The obvious consequence of that was Jedi became too common and as an alpha profession that was an issue for anyone who didn't want to play Jedi but PvP.

Of course, they could solve the alpha thing and keep Jedi as they are now but make them harder to achieve...but then people are going to expect something more powerful for having to put more time towards achieving.

So no, as a person who doesn't want to be forced to play a Jedi to be competitive in PvP, I don't want Jedi to become unlockable and consequently, an alpha profession.

iamjmk · March 2007

Well on the Jedi question I feel a few simple things could have helped make it better.

1. Make a true dark side starting profession who's sole job would be to hunt down Jedi. My name for this profession would have been Inquistor. They wouldnt be quite as strong as Jedi but there sheer number as well as Bounty Hunters should have kept the Jedi population in check. If it pissed people off it pissed them off, for me it would have been truer to canon and made more sense.

2. Make an encounter with Darth Vader for fully Realized Jedi. Make it so that there was always a chance he would appear at the location where a Jedi was overt. You could make it so if the Jedi was on one of the "back world" planets it would be very slight percetnage but if they went overt on one the Main planets it would jump way up in likely hood. So between a BH or Inquistor and the off chance of running into a Sith Lord it would be fun to play and yet very very diffcult to stay alive.

To me allowing Jedi to be something that took awhile wasnt the probelem or that they were a "alpha class" Its that the Dev team didnt take measures to deal with it in such a way that SW fans and simple MMO fans could ban together and deal with in a very Star Warsy way.

Again just my thoughts, maybe it wouldnt have worked at all.

Cheers all and have a great day!

iskareot · March 2007

To this day the risk vs reward system is a topic that some understand and the ones that never played it claim to understand it.

Speaking from the experience I had as a pre-7 Jedi - I can tell you it worked. TEFS made this make sense.

3 strike rule and you lose, i.e. perma death/skill loss DID WORK. So yes you had a tougher toon, but not to tough and the loss when dead was huge.

What should have happend, is the Opp.... it should have been made harder, more complex and a greater goal.

Keeping us hidden based on TEFS and BHs hunting us was the best part of that era of Jedi. Visibility and risk of being seen or ganked KEPT YOU IN CHECK.. but in the chance that two ganked you -- you could defend yourself.

People forget that while even that you could defend yourself... YOU did get more visibility... SO in turn, when you got attacked, if you won the battle... then you ONLY prolonged the hunt. Because due to that fight you were then on every BH terminal and now even MORE people could come after you putting you MORE in dept to XP or skill loss perse.

Sure people wanted it -- BUT as a business and being a game THERE SHOULD BE GOALS AND THINGS THAT REQUIRE EFFORT TO OBTAIN. People tend to forget this concept. Being a Alpha class had it's pitfalls that most people that post here have no idea about.

Here is a few not to mention what I did above:

While you were a Jedi then visibility could get you dead and in trouble... instantly. You had to know when and where to grind.. you could not be public, you could not show off, you could not be stupid and "duel" people without a risk.

Cost factor: This alone was intresting, in the old days.. YOU HAD TO LEARN THE GAME first then unlock... play the profs, learn how to support your Jedi. (Because you could not do anything else with him) your main had to become a crafter, merchant --- etc.. you had to USE YOUR MAIN to get things, you could not just travel with your jedi ... because if one mistake happend you could be screwed.

i.e.... I at one time by mistake hit my heal button in a Star Port... Now-- listen this is when Bria had 500 people standing in Coronet... NEEDLESS to say I had people on me like flies on shit in seconds. I lost a life and had to park my Jedi for 7 days so that the decay of the death would wear off.

As Obriak said above.. he assumed it just took time... Well no he had no idea since he was not one and he just "heard" what it was like is utter bullshit. So for those that claim or think they know --- odds are they don't.

For instance... we had no idea what "visibility" was or how it happend... we were kept in the dark.. THAT alone is not just (time) that is game process and thinking, you had to be smart of where to go and when. That has nothing to do with "time" perse. You had to buy pearls, you had to use resources that at the time were not easy to get or obtain and WHEN YOU DID people watched for it to hunt you.

You had to know who to tell, if anyone you were one, you THEN just had to do the grind and train when you could. We had 0 defenses other then Armor and saber block which in pre-9 days was not so hot. We had no terrain nego, so that meant unless you had the force run skill (WHICH then you did not have until you were up in the skills) you would walk or run at normal pace vs a Ranger or even Scout. You had no other class skills, strictly Jedi only... which at the Initate level was pretty rough. If you were smart you avoided ANYONE and never fought.

As a Jedi then you had to pick your fights with mobs... because -- a server crash, a mistake with a button, a hunting party of 20 people or more, you were set back big time. All of this was part of the price to be a Jedi.

Now granted this was pre-9 days... this was not CU etc.. as it got easier--- after pub 10 it took a bad turn I think. The FRS was great but like everyhing else -- AND I MEAN everything else it had flaws... and was semi-broke, concept was great -- loop holes sucked.

Jed was at it's best pre-9 , looking back pretty much we all know this now. Risk vs Reward does work with power... making hard or A GOAL FOR PEOPLE was the best idea, both for business and content, with cannon.

You could not be running around like a fool back then due to ganks.. you could not pvp due to loss of a skill or death...

So more or less you had to hide and had a toon that could only be used at times that you were careful.

The funny thing is that before you even unlocked you had to learn a bunch of profs, you had to figure some stuff out and most important you had to LEARNT THE GAME FIRST then unlock... THEN you had the real grind after that. It by all means was not just "time" if that was the case there would have been more people doing it.

It took some thought, effort and tact. But the people that think othere wise, were not Jedi then... pretty much speaking from their ass.

We hid, we forced roleplay, we were not stupid nor did we have a force pole arm, we had GREAT and I mean great animations... some were never seen past pup-9 -- while yes we got new ones, some were lost, the old saber throw before the pub-9 one was wicked, it would fly all around and hit the targets just like the movie or what you would expect it to do.

I liked it because it was a goal, movie and childhood dream to have it in a game. It really was fun then and took effort. Sadly nothing much takes effort now in SWG, this much is just a fact. That class and the way to get it was special, the current system does not allow for diversity so for that it pretty much rules out Jedi being anything but a token to get people to play it.

Sad what was lost, no doubt about it... we asked for it to be harder to control the Jedi population, they went the other way.. now you have what they chose. So yeah... that worked out lol...

http://www.advsoftech.com/~mmonroe/Isk%202004%20June.jpg One of my favs... just shows you alone out there..

http://www.advsoftech.com/~mmonroe/runiskrun.jpg Me making and very bad bad bad mistake... He did catch me btw --- sucked, I lost a life to him. Back then they hit real hard...lol

http://www.advsoftech.com/~mmonroe/Knight%20Trials.jpg It was cool to get this pop-up out of nowhere... I can tell you that.

http://www.advsoftech.com/~mmonroe/screenShot0060.jpg Then you got this during the trials..

http://www.advsoftech.com/~mmonroe/screenShot0149.jpg Beta testing shot from my skill set-- and yes the titles on the left got changed -- also the Dark and Light side --- sadly. It should have stuck because I really liked thier first idea for the pub-9 change. (Does not matter now that I show these lol)

http://www.advsoftech.com/~mmonroe/screenShot0003.jpg LOL another beta testing shot -- check them all out lol... It was kinda crazy that day..lol

http://www.advsoftech.com/~mmonroe/screenShot0084.jpg Um yeah... real Knight robe stuff... not a loot item lol.

http://www.advsoftech.com/~mmonroe/screenShot0099.jpg FRS ranks and the real seat holders allowments etc... not made up ones.

http://www.advsoftech.com/~mmonroe/screenShot0076.jpg Dec PEX helping us with some live testing -- remote area and pretty much we kept this on the lowdown at the time.

flowercivic · March 2007

Well I hope that SoE does have some people that pay attention to this as if SoE wants to make their $30.00 a month Station Pass even worth it; they need something better than EQ2 & Vanguard to support it. Matrix is dead, and SWG is pretty much there. If they would pay attention to their fan base then they could bring in those extra dollars.

I love MMO's, and yes SoE has screwed up things many many time, but I can't get away from their games. I keep wanting to play them. I played EQ2 for over a year, EQ1 for about 6 months before saying "screw this, I don't have the time to level a toon for 2 years" Now I have been MMO bouncing, and when I bounced over to SWG I see a game that has promise, but needs a hand to get it back into the minds of gamers around.

Vanguard blew it, WoW was too toony for me (even those millions love it), LOTRO just plain blows, Dungon Runners is quickly losing my respect, D&D sucked really bad, Guildwars is cool till lvl 20 (Not a big PVPer) Then there was Lineage 2, FFXI, and City of Heros, and they simply were not my cup of tea.

Now all I can look foward to is AoC (Age of Conan) and I hope they don't do like Vanguard... Spend excess money on advertisement, and not enough where it counted... THE DEVELOPMENT OF THE FREAKING GAME!!!

SoE seems like it has no other projects going on besides trying to fix Vanguard so why not assign some new talent into creating another Star Wars to rival Star Trek!!!

SoE... GET TO WORK YA LAZY BUMS

P.S. Killer screens!!! :- ) I wish that you had to do that now in SWG! Seems way more rewarding. My BF quit because right after he obtained Jedi status they changed it

Dvol · March 2007

Yes they need to re-do it third times a charm..i would come back if the combat system was reverted back as well as all the professions.As it stands right now the gameplay for me is too crappy to enjoy it anymore.But my server is dead and i prepaid up way in advance..My 3 year sub passed away 2 months ago and i havent missed the current game since..I was one who stuck around thinking they would change it back due to low subs.But alas no matter how bad the game has gotten they still wont fix it..The problems from beta and launch are still the same with the NGE..Except the other 2 changes werent nearly as bad as the NGE is..But the game is fun to some so im glad those can still enjoy it i cannot..

Jedi in the begining did work it had a great risk vs reward system.Then all the cries came out and so and so forth.Most that claim it was Alpha ect never played as a Jedi..Alpha profession can work if the proper risk vs reward system was still in place.A jedi pre9 saber tefed to everyone but those in his/her group.SOE messed with to many things changed way too much things they didnt need too..Heck populations and such declined due to the constant changes no one asked for.I dont recall asking for 3 revamps each sucking more than the last.I do recall asking for bug fixes and line of sight bugs addressed.How FIx bugs add content = massive game changes is beyond me..

The current free Jedi system is a complete joke and jedi is weak and just a fencer with a glow bat..All the animations are gone and it may surprise most of the Jedi haters ,but i enjoyed Being hidden and PVE more as a jedi than my norm toon..But as the FRS was allowed to be cheated the more PVP became the Jedi wars..And without a good risk reward system which i was happy to be a part of the game offers no goals.You can debate this flame it what ever but facts are facts.The game isnt gonna recover unless it undergoes another massive change..And adding back the combat and professions is content for alot of us..But like many post it really doesnt matter what the 200k+ of us think it wont bring the game back..

If the NGE is so great why do they allways bring back a form of Precu call it new and ruin it?That right there should tell you something about the state of the current game.It may be Better than it was at launch but its still not good enough for the thousands of vets who never complained till the game changed..I was one of those supporters of SWG for allmost 3 years never once said anything against the game..The NGE changed all that..But i have found that no matter how many times i resub i just cannot stomach the NGE for more than an hour..But if you do enjoy the Current game im glad i just wished i could cause i miss SWG..

xPaladin · March 2007

Originally posted by Obraik

It was inevitable that Jedi was going to become easier to play but less powerful since Jedi was never hard to achieve, it only ever took time. Having an alpha profession was also a mistake from the start. Of course nearly everyone wanted to be that profession, who wouldn't want to be the toughest profession in the game? The obvious consequence of that was Jedi became too common and as an alpha profession that was an issue for anyone who didn't want to play Jedi but PvP.
Of course, they could solve the alpha thing and keep Jedi as they are now but make them harder to achieve...but then people are going to expect something more powerful for having to put more time towards achieving.
So no, as a person who doesn't want to be forced to play a Jedi to be competitive in PvP, I don't want Jedi to become unlockable and consequently, an alpha profession.

Something people conveniently forget is that (forget holocrons for a minute) Jedi were *fine* with the Permadeath system: a lot (and I mean a LOT) of power for a lot of risk. It's perfectly acceptable and within reason to have something that powerful if it means you can lose everything. And if you ever met or fought against a skilled jedi "master" under the permadeath system, you'd know just how powerful those folks were. Yet for all their power they had vulnerabilities and even the really smart "masters" kept themselves relatively secluded.

Problem is, some people (a vocal minority of both wannabe-PvP-gods and RP-enthusiasts) weren't willing to accept permadeath as a risk. They complained until it got removed by SOE, and that's about when the game -- already plagued by bugs and imbalances across the board -- went to hell in a hand basket. IMHO the Jedi issue in SWG is a significant undertone in which people approach games in general in the North American market: wanting it all with minimal investment and minimal risk.

Here's a couple of quick facts about Jedi in the permadeath period:

- Permadeath did NOT restrict Jedi to PvP. Bounties existed but the prodigal Jedi understood how the visibility system worked and were able to grind in relative peace.

- Permadeath did NOT take away from RP. Quite the contrary. It made being a Jedi risky business: the more people knew about it, the more dangerous things became. Ultimately, pissing off enough people (which is as easy to do as merely being a Jedi and being seen) could put a player in very precarious spots, generating a lot of RP opportunities.

- Jedi who got killed were either stupid or made a critical mistake. In many cases, both. I killed quite a few showoff Jedi who wanted to impress their friends with their sabers atop their guild's guild hall -- not the brightest of ideas.

- Even if PvP was forced via TEF, BHs and all other players were incredibly easy to escape from on their own using force run, and rather easy to kill (though strictly unadvisable due to the skyrocket of visibility that would cause) with the saber branch maxed. Again, the Jedi's intellect was the only limiting factor here.

- Jedi did indeed have the killpower to take on a half group (10) of competent people at once and have good odds of survival. Force heal was ridiculously overpowered for this very reason. However, again, doing so was unadvisable because of visibility. Single BHs weren't a problem, but when they all start grouping up and forming alliances to take down a single guy, the Jedi's odds of survival decrease quite a bit.

And as an empirical addition, I can honestly say I never met a convincing post-permadeath RP Jedi. However the few I managed to run into while permadeath was up gave me not only a good challenge, but a higher standard of RP than most.

That all said, Jedi as an unlockable alpha class was perhaps one of the best things about SWG. It maintained the delicate balance this game needed: folks who were hardcore Jedi-oriented were delicately balanced, the dabblers and casuals worked with standard professions, those casuals in turn kept the crafters and entertainers busy, who in turn provided a cozy environment for the dabblers

The fall was twofold: its execution was entirely slipshod and laden with the wails of incompetent players. Once the methods to acquisition became known, the power became the standard. With the exception of holocrons (again, off topic for this discussion), SOE had the entire Jedi thing almost perfect until some idiot over there figured that Jedi would make a more appropriate end-game than an alternate lifestyle.

BaronJuJu · March 2007

Originally posted by xPaladin

Problem is, some people (a vocal minority of both wannabe-PvP-gods and RP-enthusiasts) weren't willing to accept permadeath as a risk. They complained until it got removed by SOE, and that's about when the game -- already plagued by bugs and imbalances across the board -- went to hell in a hand basket.

Q-Friggin-E. It was pretty amazing to watch the Jedi boards once the permadeath was removed. Players continually asking for more power while asking for less risk in return, and getting it. The Dev's could hardly say no since they already removed the biggest obstacle to alot of players hesitation to becoming Jedi and tried to appease more folks to bring in more players. Well, as we can see, that failed miserably since the early days of pre-CU.

I was a little disappointed the developers weren't a little, no alot more creative with the design of attaining Jedi. I mean come on....grinding multiple professions to attain Jedi? That is bottom of the barrel, last minute thinking and implementation at its best. Folks who claim it was "earned" I think are deluding themselves. It was nothing more than being a total grind monkey, nothing more, and thats sad for a profession that was supposed to stay rare and mysterious. Did they really think that folks wouldn't figure out grinding professions was the only key to unlocking Jedi? That's just not knowing your audience there, plain and simple.

And the reward for being that grind monkey was an Alpha class? ROFL. They messed up big time and you can thank the original developers for where we are today. If they would have fixed half of what was repeatedly reported as broke or bugged over and over and concentrated on content and the fabled storyline and not messing with permadeath and the resulting snowball effect of profession balances from that, then we would still being playing the game we bought over 3 years ago today.

metatronic · March 2007

Originally posted by Obraik

It was inevitable that Jedi was going to become easier to play but less powerful since Jedi was never hard to achieve, it only ever took time. Having an alpha profession was also a mistake from the start. Of course nearly everyone wanted to be that profession, who wouldn't want to be the toughest profession in the game? The obvious consequence of that was Jedi became too common and as an alpha profession that was an issue for anyone who didn't want to play Jedi but PvP.
Of course, they could solve the alpha thing and keep Jedi as they are now but make them harder to achieve...but then people are going to expect something more powerful for having to put more time towards achieving.
So no, as a person who doesn't want to be forced to play a Jedi to be competitive in PvP, I don't want Jedi to become unlockable and consequently, an alpha profession.

You should just give up.. You have no clue what your talking about. Jedi were never invincible nor the toughest class in game. Ask any master brawler/TKM/medic.. Ask any master pikes/master fencer/medic.. The only class jedi was an alpha class over were ranged.. And even ranged had alternatives to beating them via CM..

There was a class paradigm present that nubs like you had no clue about apparently. It went something like this...

Melee>Jedi>Ranged>Non jedi Melee... Doc countered CM... It's too bad people like you never realised these things and complained about how unbalanced one class over another was... Every class had its counter-balance.. And a few classes were just use-less outside of Pve..

iskareot · March 2007

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

Originally posted by xPaladin

Problem is, some people (a vocal minority of both wannabe-PvP-gods and RP-enthusiasts) weren't willing to accept permadeath as a risk. They complained until it got removed by SOE, and that's about when the game -- already plagued by bugs and imbalances across the board -- went to hell in a hand basket.

Q-Friggin-E. It was pretty amazing to watch the Jedi boards once the permadeath was removed. Players continually asking for more power while asking for less risk in return, and getting it. The Dev's could hardly say no since they already removed the biggest obstacle to alot of players hesitation to becoming Jedi and tried to appease more folks to bring in more players. Well, as we can see, that failed miserably since the early days of pre-CU.

I was a little disappointed the developers weren't a little, no alot more creative with the design of attaining Jedi. I mean come on....grinding multiple professions to attain Jedi? That is bottom of the barrel, last minute thinking and implementation at its best. Folks who claim it was "earned" I think are deluding themselves. It was nothing more than being a total grind monkey, nothing more, and thats sad for a profession that was supposed to stay rare and mysterious. Did they really think that folks wouldn't figure out grinding professions was the only key to unlocking Jedi? That's just not knowing your audience there, plain and simple.

And the reward for being that grind monkey was an Alpha class? ROFL. They messed up big time and you can thank the original developers for where we are today. If they would have fixed half of what was repeatedly reported as broke or bugged over and over and concentrated on content and the fabled storyline and not messing with permadeath and the resulting snowball effect of profession balances from that, then we would still being playing the game we bought over 3 years ago today.

Again speaking from experience, being that neither of you were one then that NOT ALL JEDI complained about perma-death. I did not like it, sure it was a rough lesson based on server crashes, etc.. stupid game bugs made it more pointless. I was on Bria... give me a break, I would be grinding alone in the middle of nowhere and the server would crash. I would come back and find myself dead and not even able to clone. THAT was alot of the reason that got bad... again, I did it, lived it and was part of it. Now then, THE skill loss system I was a fan of.... You die 3 times in 7 days, you lose the highest tier skill box you had that took you days to get if that. SO in you would actually have to "PARK" your Jedi and play your main for the decay to wear off your death. (This concept was great if you think about it)...

But see, just grinding profs, took time, back then, credits and some knowledge of the game, you had to know where things were and what was the best way to do it perse. Again, the grind to get Jedi was somewhat mind numbing do not get me wrong, BUT then once you unlocked the second part of the grind kicked in. Most of the people if given the chance would have loved to get Jedi without the grind... so they at least put somthing in that you had to apply effort towards.

I think that to many people got involved and there was to many Chefs in the kitchen at this point. IF they had stuck to the perma-death or skill loss system that would have been for the best, also making it harder as they did without telling anyone if I recall actually. That is what most of us asked for, we saw what was coming and told the Dev team to make it harder as we go, not eaiser... or it would be a train wreck with 1000s of Jedi running around. It seems that marketing got involved and who knows what else.

If they had left it as a hard thing to do vs just click Lukes head it would have been for the better. Back then you had to fund your Jedi, decay of sabers was silly and the cost of Armor with decay made your grind pretty pricey. Back then, 5 mill was more then it is now.

I planned months in advance, saving and getting resources for the grind and experience.

The real grind was not exactly all the profs, but the unlock and the part two of the grind... that was effort and tact.... by all means somthing in a game that was not easy, much harder then almost any game I played since the Ti99 days thats for sure.

So many unknown aspects of risk and loss that it was a thrill ride to unlock back then and NOT KNOW what was around the corner for you. THAT is the part I miss.... so yeah there was effort and tact involved after you unlocked then, if you wanted to at least make paddawan back then. Crap the xp alone for that was nuts back then. Jedi now, have no idea what that was like lol...

BaronJuJu · March 2007

Originally posted by iskareot

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

Originally posted by xPaladin

Problem is, some people (a vocal minority of both wannabe-PvP-gods and RP-enthusiasts) weren't willing to accept permadeath as a risk. They complained until it got removed by SOE, and that's about when the game -- already plagued by bugs and imbalances across the board -- went to hell in a hand basket.