So I must admit that my OP was somewhat of a bait post. (nothing false in the post though) Is that bad? I wanted the actual opinions of the people that like the game and those that don't. From what I can tell all of the things mentioned as bad were just plain false or actually things that make the game good. I didn't see one of the game's actual problems mentioned. The game is different. I like different. I've been playing MMORPGs since the third year of UO and this is the most groundbreaking game out right now. Most of the other games are all the same house with different paint jobs. I see an inovative game that is being shunned because most of the MMORPG community has been brainwashed by WOW. I played EQ and DOAC to death. Why would I want to play the next evolution of that game? (WOW) I want a new game with new things like the actual tactical combat and actual character customization. I don't want: 1. Open 95% empty space to "explore". If I want to explore I go over to the closest state park and walk around. 2. Imaginary houses to build. (Play sims anyone?) 3. PVP (I'm 32, I don't need to have a pencil fight with a bunch of teenagers thanks.) You can like PVP if you want but it has only ruined most games IMO. It definately makes the community suck. 4. Any quest to collect the random 13 pieces of hide or skin or fingers or whatever. Very origional. This is not a "quest" people. It is a waste of time. A DDO quest done for the 17th time is more fun than this. Just because an MMORPG has the top 13 current "required" features doesn't mean that it is good or fun. If you haven't been in a party of 6 in DDO on a quest for the first time then your MMORPG life is seriously lacking. Get out of your BOX! Thanks
Holy person that's more wrong than two guys having sex, Batman!!!!
There's no way in hell that DDO is "the most ground breaking game out right now". You sir are a moron and a Fanboi.
First of all you have to grind rep to get the full amount of skill points at character creation.
You have to grind rep to unlock one of the races.
Everyone knows where all the traps are in the dungeons and the dungeons are the same everytime you play them.
DDO is based on itemization just like every other MMO out there. They have crappy collectables that just take up space in your inventory. There's not awhole lot of depth going on in that game.
Also, there's nothing... NOTHING in DDO that is ground breaking.
DDO is a sad parody of every other fanatsy based MMORPG out.
Nothing about the gameplay or the game itself warrants a monthly fee.
In short, DDO sucks and so does WoW. You couldn't be more wrong if you farted in church during your first born child's baptism when the priest called for a moment of silence.
So I must admit that my OP was somewhat of a bait post. (nothing false in the post though) Is that bad? I wanted the actual opinions of the people that like the game and those that don't. From what I can tell all of the things mentioned as bad were just plain false or actually things that make the game good. I didn't see one of the game's actual problems mentioned. The game is different. I like different. I've been playing MMORPGs since the third year of UO and this is the most groundbreaking game out right now. Most of the other games are all the same house with different paint jobs. I see an inovative game that is being shunned because most of the MMORPG community has been brainwashed by WOW. I played EQ and DOAC to death. Why would I want to play the next evolution of that game? (WOW) I want a new game with new things like the actual tactical combat and actual character customization. I don't want: 1. Open 95% empty space to "explore". If I want to explore I go over to the closest state park and walk around. 2. Imaginary houses to build. (Play sims anyone?) 3. PVP (I'm 32, I don't need to have a pencil fight with a bunch of teenagers thanks.) You can like PVP if you want but it has only ruined most games IMO. It definately makes the community suck. 4. Any quest to collect the random 13 pieces of hide or skin or fingers or whatever. Very origional. This is not a "quest" people. It is a waste of time. A DDO quest done for the 17th time is more fun than this. Just because an MMORPG has the top 13 current "required" features doesn't mean that it is good or fun. If you haven't been in a party of 6 in DDO on a quest for the first time then your MMORPG life is seriously lacking. Get out of your BOX! Thanks
Holy person that's more wrong than two guys having sex, Batman!!!!
There's no way in hell that DDO is "the most ground breaking game out right now". You sir are a moron and a Fanboi.
First of all you have to grind rep to get the full amount of skill points at character creation.
You have to grind rep to unlock one of the races.
Everyone knows where all the traps are in the dungeons and the dungeons are the same everytime you play them.
DDO is based on itemization just like every other MMO out there. They have crappy collectables that just take up space in your inventory. There's not awhole lot of depth going on in that game.
Also, there's nothing... NOTHING in DDO that is ground breaking.
DDO is a sad parody of every other fanatsy based MMORPG out.
Nothing about the gameplay or the game itself warrants a monthly fee.
In short, DDO sucks and so does WoW. You couldn't be more wrong if you farted in church during your first born child's baptism when the priest called for a moment of silence.
The games are different. I do not like WoW but lots of others do (obviously).
DDO is different in some significant areas.... would I call it ground breaking? Not nessessarily but the big difference to me is the combat system which is the best (for me) I've seen since AC1.
Also, DDO dungeons DO have random elements and my understanding is that they are working on more randomness and making true randomly generated dungeons.
The big thing about DDO is that it is NOT for hard core gamers but rather caters to a more adult casual gamer as is evident by the player base. Most of us don't really care about getting to the higher Reputation numbers as it is not the point and we will get there eventually.
The embedded voice chat leads to a much more appealing gaming experience and the smaller player base means that you see the same people relatively frequently even if they are on different characters.
Over all DDO is one of the best gaming experiences I've had.
That was actually the most fun I've had reading a post that was burning me alive. Fart in church? Get help! You sir are stuck in the box that I am talking about. Your speak of all of these things that you "must" do like grinding for favor or Drow. Hint: None of the things you mentioned are of any major importance to me or many other people that play DDO. If you don't think that the combat and character customization in DDO is "groundbreaking" in an MMORPG then I think you are missing something. Have fun playing whatever you play.
I tried DDO... I didnt like it at all. DDO is so bland in the mission sense, every mission I had it was walk into this door behind me, clear out the dungeon, return. Almost all the fights I encountered was the same, Click Click Click Click Click mob slain. Just had to spam one button. Reminded me too much of SWG after it was ruined, except it didnt have the vast and interactive world that SWG did.
DDO is not a game I would pay monthly for... If I wanted this type of game I'd be still playing Guild Wars... I'm stuck waiting for AoC or Warhammer Online atm for a game to play.
Finally Founders of both games can play both lotro and DDO for 14.99 a month or those founders with a lotr life time can have a DDO life time membership for 125.00. Which to me is a sweet deal.
Where did you find this information? I am a DDO founder and am in the Beta for LoTR right now. It would be nice to play both for that price. Even thought the instanced world and some other minor things got to me the only reason I left DDO was because it was practically impossible to find groups that wanted to run any of the smaller quests, so it turned into grinding the same quests over and over, but I would like t o see what they have changed since I left.
I guess I really don't understand all of the DDO hate here. IMO there are aspects of this game that are the best in any game at this point. Also, the developers are creating new content constantly and are very active in communicating with the community. I'm not saying that the game doesn't have any problems but every MMORPG that I ever played has problems. This game is 100% better now than it was at the start. I'm really interested in the opinions of people that have tried the game out in the last 3 months or so. What is your opinion?
Well let's see why many people hate it...
- It's unfinished product. (Start at level 10 and it's level cap increased to 14 over the past year)
- It's doesn't follow the DnD ruleset too well. (Cleave and Great Cleave work like a spin attack instead of a free attack when you defeat an enemy.)
- They are still bugs from the beta. (The dice is bugged)
- Some of the class were created incomplete. (Ranger doesn't have a pet.)
- Easy to grind and was created for grinding.
- Doesn't have a really good lore. (Various Storylines have nothing to do with each other.)
- Bad graphics. (Don't take my word for it, ask around on the general forums)
- PvP is dead and imbalanced. (Thanks to class, equipment and levels)
- Gameplay is boring. (As Figthter, I only found myself pressing tab and rarely any other button.)
- The world is closed off and very instanced. (DnD is a very open world and this game was made into a GW clone.)
- Turbine created the game. (Notorious for cheating their customers with the AC2 expansion)
These are a few of the reasons why I think people hate this game. Again, if you want to know why people hate DDO then pose this same question on the general forum. Peace and I'm out.
ok here goes
-List an mmo without a few bugs and one that is completely finished at launch. Just one come on name one. DDO launched as a fun playable product from the start.
-It cant follow the 3.5 ruleset to the letter because that doesnt translate to a non turn based system such as DDO has. It does however adapt the rules very well.
-All MMO's have lingering bugs and will probably always have lingering bugs but DDO has a huge portion of thiers ironed out. Try playing the game before you post nonsense.
-Most of the classes are complete and functional and complement each other well. You cant have a literal translation from 3.5 rules to an MMO it just doesnt work as I stated before.
-Any game is a grind. However DDO's grind is what you make of it. This game has to be one of the lightest grinds I've ever experienced in a game which is a bonus.
-Obviously you have to actually bother to read the text to understand the lore. Something I'm convinced you are incappable of.
-The graphics are good, try maybe not playing on very low settings. I cant find many released games with better graphics to be honest.
-DDO was NEVER supposed to have PVP but people whined enough that they put it in. D&D has nothing to do with balanced classes and I'm glad they didnt give in to the children crying for balance because thier fighter cant kill a mage at level 12. The fighter is always supposed to lose that fight..... ALWAYS.
-Gameplay is fast, fun and can be exciting. You obviously were a horrid player and if you couldnt find any way to innovate and enhance your basic tab pushing in this game than any game you play is going to be an awful experience for you. Im glad I never had to deal with your lack of skill in any of my partys.
-Think about dungeons and dragons for a second its pretty much instanced.... yeah thats right you skip over traveling your DM just says ok you travel there and rolls for maybe a random encounter then you go and do your quest...... Instance much? The translation again is good you just like to complain. I think if it would have been wide open you would have complained about that saying you were sick of other people taking your spots and you wish there was more instancing. BTW Mod 4 adds a huge new outdoor area to the game and along with the desert there is room to explore.
These among others are real reasons to love the game for what it is.
I guess I really don't understand all of the DDO hate here. IMO there are aspects of this game that are the best in any game at this point. Also, the developers are creating new content constantly and are very active in communicating with the community. I'm not saying that the game doesn't have any problems but every MMORPG that I ever played has problems. This game is 100% better now than it was at the start. I'm really interested in the opinions of people that have tried the game out in the last 3 months or so. What is your opinion?
As a founder and a community advisor (no longer active), I can say that the only real standout problem I have with DDO is that it is static. I feel like candyland has more variety in gameplay than DDO. Almost everything else, I enjoy or appreciate as a valuable contribution to the MMO industry.
It's just a shame that I realize variety and the random element of an MMO is what makes it worth playing. For instance, one of the most memorable moments in DDO where when I ran into another group within a dungeon. I thought it was the coolest thing ever, then I found out it was a bug. A few days later it was patched
So are you saying that DDO will be changing their combat system? I find it hard to believe they would do this after the SOE SWG fiasco? It would be like a reverse NGE. I would definitely revisit that game if they did that. I think alot of games will be ghost towns when Bioware's MMO comes out.
The two top reasons players cancelled their accounts is 1: No open world content, and 2: The FPS combat system, the recent poll suggested overwhelmingly that the majority of current players would welcome the Combat Change. Keep in mind this isn't some half baked broken combat system, this is the well polished LOTRO combat system with the D20 dice rolls shown. Further if you Read Jeff Bakers Ebberon books or the Ebberon Campaign you will find a deep rich setting , It's a cross between Warmachine and Forgotten Realms, and is very exciting, Wizards wants Turbine to open up this world and given the fact that Turbine needs DDO to be successful to gain venture capitol for future project they really don't have much of a choice, they can't live just on the success of LOTRO (Which is only going to be moderately successful) I was full of doubt when talking to my friend about this too, but once he explained the reasoning I was pretty excited.
The LOTR combat system is outdated garbage IMO. The next GEN systems will be something that requires tactical melee strikes to certain body parts inflicting major damage coupled with a mortal combat type animation system with grapples, decapitations, de-limbing etc... LOTR combat is boring.. Its no different that whats been beaten to death in most MMO's and practicly lulled me into a coma after an hour.
The whole DDO world being one big Guild Wars type instance is what killed it.. The FPS combat was unique and tolerable and only missing what I describe above as a mortal combat system.. That game needed vast rolling fields, and heavy-experimental crafting to entertain players. Pen and Paper is just that PnP.. Its rules need not find themselves in any MMORPG as far as I'm concerned.. The only thing that they should of used from DDO was its theme, characters, classes/spells and world.. No one wanted to pay 15 bucks a month for an online instanced quest that felt very much like Diablo peer to peer hosted games. Thats what killed it and no LOTR clicking flashing icons and waiting for timers will fix that major game flaw.
So are you saying that DDO will be changing their combat system? I find it hard to believe they would do this after the SOE SWG fiasco? It would be like a reverse NGE. I would definitely revisit that game if they did that. I think alot of games will be ghost towns when Bioware's MMO comes out.
The two top reasons players cancelled their accounts is 1: No open world content, and 2: The FPS combat system, the recent poll suggested overwhelmingly that the majority of current players would welcome the Combat Change. Keep in mind this isn't some half baked broken combat system, this is the well polished LOTRO combat system with the D20 dice rolls shown. Further if you Read Jeff Bakers Ebberon books or the Ebberon Campaign you will find a deep rich setting , It's a cross between Warmachine and Forgotten Realms, and is very exciting, Wizards wants Turbine to open up this world and given the fact that Turbine needs DDO to be successful to gain venture capitol for future project they really don't have much of a choice, they can't live just on the success of LOTRO (Which is only going to be moderately successful) I was full of doubt when talking to my friend about this too, but once he explained the reasoning I was pretty excited.
Let me know when/if this happens (different combat system, more open world). I may be interested in playing then.
MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
I cant speak for DDO in its current state, but at launch it was not worth a subscription fee, its just as instanced as GW yet GW is F2P if DDO was F2P it would be huge.
Its looks great and plays fine but at the time making people pay for a very short game was a little cheeky. If they made it F2P tommorrow ill be down PC world to snap up 1 of the many boxes they have had the shelves for the last year, ill pay for expansions ofc just like in GW.
I did like DDO, i played the beta and honestly enjoyed myself, but before DDO i used to play GW and didn't like GW due to the missing pve content. If indeed DDO was 'F2P' (like GW) i'd probably play it again.
And the so called 'D&D ruleset' doesn't mean anything to me i found it rather fun me jumping in water with plate armor and going 'blub blub'
I guess the people that are familiar with the D&D ruleset are 'dissapointed' but for people like me who never heard of that couldn't care less. Doesn't take away the game missing 'explorable' content.
And i don't think you can 'hate' a game, you like or dislike it. You can however hate the people that made the game :P
Firstly I couldn't believe they actually made this game without a first person perspective...how stupid is that...
As for the gameplay...its very un-immersive with all the instances. Not a 'virtual world' that draws you in. I did like the 'twitch' aspect to combat though.
Anyways I didn't like it. Prefer a real mmorpg like EQ, DAOC, Vanguard etc.
I like the combat system the way it is and it made DDO unique. I'm in LoTRO beta and it is using the old mmo combat system and I'm sick and tired of that. Its just boring as hell. I want to pay attention to the action in the game not the UI bar waiting for my cooldowns to reset.
I Beta'd DDO and subscribed to it for a few months. Overall I liked the game I just didn't like the limited number of quests (even after the 1st couple of patches).
I think DDO gets a bad rap mainly because most people that play (or played) it and rate it bad, don't play it from a D&D perspective but from a modern day MMO perspective. Which it is, but I think that it was built trying to keep to its D&D roots for the most part. You can't just blitz through DDO as with WoW, EQ, CoH, etc and appreciate it. You have to savor it.
Unfortunately, when it originally came out there were too few quests and a lot of the PUG's were blitzing in style. You ended up repeating quests (very un D&D like) which became monotonous.
With the welcome back weekend, I'm going to try DDO again and see if the things have changed. I'm sure there are many new quests.
I'm not a DDO Hater, just a D&D'er that had hoped DDO would have been much more at release.
I’m , a founder and have been with DDO since beta 1 that doesn’t make me a fanboi as I have plenty of criticisms about the game (Ranger not having pets Cleave being a spin attack those horrible animations etc) However I have stuck with it so long because of the community (Awesome mature player base) and the fact that Jeff Baker is now not only writing but steering the project as well. I think over the next year we will se some major changes in DDO, one with the most controversy will be the loss of FPS type combat. The LOTRO combat system (Which uses D20 rules you just don't see the dice roll) will be launched sometimes in June or so my friend that is employed there tells me, also they are working on the first paid expansion, which will incorporate a more open world feel. What really excites me is that there will also be a DM feature that Guild leaders can use in where they can set up adventures with level appropriate Monsters and loot and run their guild mates through it, housing /shops are also on the table. Finally Founders of both games can play both lotro and DDO for 14.99 a month or those founders with a lotr life time can have a DDO life time membership for 125.00. Which to me is a sweet deal. Turbine is at a point where they are going to have to make their D&D MMO attractive because rumor has it that Biowares new MMO is Baldurs Gate Online, and if that is the case DDO will be a ghost-town over night if it remains as is.
First and foremost, thanks for supporting DDO. Founders have been with us since the beginning and have contributed a great deal to the community. Now, a few answers for you:
Rangers will be receiving pets via their summon nature's ally spell in the April module, Reaver's Bane (another free expansion to the game). You'll also see more landscape adventure areas, such as Gianthold (for high-level players) and the Cerulean Hills (low-level). We're adding a lot of great features to the game in this latest release, and you can read more about them on the website (www.ddo.com).
I think you're referring to Keith Baker, the creator of the Eberron campaign setting. While Keith has done work for us in the past, he's not the lead on DDO. James Jones (Executive Producer), Kate Paiz (Producer), and others lead the game development.
The Active Combat feature in DDO is one of the game's strengths, and we don't have any plans to change it. LOTRO does not use the d20 system like DDO.
Guild housing and other features are mentioned in Kate's State of the Game post. You can read that here: http://www.ddo.com/article/845.
TSRJim what about the pricing martinj63 mentioned in his post that DDO would also offer a lifetime membership deal that LOTR does for pre-ordering. Any truth to that?
If not I would be willing to pay for a all games pass similar to what SOE has with their station pass. Pass that up to your bosses so they can start researching the idea, PLEASE. I am having to cancel DDO to play LOTR and I want to play both as well see how much AC has changed through the years.
Everyone knows where all the traps are in the dungeons and the dungeons are the same everytime you play them.
Everyone knows where all the traps are in the DDO dungeons. Does everyone know where all the traps are in WoW dungeons? No, they don't. Oh yeah, that's because WoW dungeons don't have any real traps. You just kinda walk through and kill stuff, er, I mean, kill incredibly-random monsters that are so random they might be 10 feet over from where they were the last time.
Rather than start a new thread, I'll jump into this one. I just recently created a DDO account to try the beta (which I've downloaded but not installed yet until I have a few days off to play around with).
It seems from reading the forums that a large percentage of complaints/dislike about DDO stems from its high reliance on instances. My question is: did you know ahead of time that DDO was like that, or did you assume it was a traditional persistent world MMORPG only to be disappointed? I'm wondering if your opinion would have been different if you knew what you were getting beforehand...
It almost seems -- and again, this is strictly assumption on my part from reading forums so I may be way off-base -- that the whole instancing thing is to simulate the whole "D&D and modules" theme. In the PnP game, the modules were all stand-alone, there really were extremely few, if any, continuous storyline module series (at least way back when I played). And frankly, even in a seamless and persistent world such as WoW, you wind up grinding instances ad infinitum with little or no storyline or motive to do so other than to hopefully get some new loot.
I guess I'll find out in a week or so when I get some time off, but in the meantime I just wonder if DDO isn't trying to simulate the module gameplay style while trying to eliminate some of the traditional MMORPG time-sinks such as travel time, etc. just to get you into the action faster?
I bought and played DDO when it launched live. And the things I didn't like about the game weren't a big deal for an MMO if that's what you like.
HOWEVER in the context of it being D&D Online I got problems:
Avatars not customizable enough. What's more important that your character in D&D? Who didn't work every angle of the rules in an attempt to make yourself unique or different?
RPG, where are you? so much of the talk is about the combat. But when I played D&D most of the time was spent in roleplay that lead to combat. Not just get together and start off dungeon crawling.
And finally the gamebreaker: Not being able to walk out the front gate of Stormreach and explore. I was floored when I realized this was the case. In response to the previous poster, I dont remember whether I was informed of this or not, but I tell you there is no way I would have beleived a game claiming to be D&D to be so restricted in it's scope. If someone had sat me down and really made it clear how it was, (I probably wouldn't have believed it) I wouldn't have even bought the game.
If the current DDO game dynamics are your cup of tea then its a fine MMO. But don't go calling it D&D Online.
The anger comes from companies using the "Theme" of something you love to sell you a game, then delivering whatever they can come up with.
No hate for DDO here. I've been playing (again) for months now on the European servers and I really like the game indeed. I've never been well up on the PnP side of things and as a result my characters are a wee bit nerfed. Nonetheless I enjoy the combat, the ease of getting PUGS and the general long distances between meeting idiots.
Codies sent me a beta key for LOTRO and as a result may now find they lose a DDO sub, but gain a LOTRO. Oye! Codies! Let's be having across the board subs for all your hosted games like those awful Sony people do.
There are some things I'd really like to see in DDO which I think would make my experience with the game a little bit better, silly things which could add up to make the game a bit more 'playable', more in-yer-face. I doubt they'd take too much resource to do.
1. Animate the dice-rolls please and lets have a nice big HIT flash up when we do actually hit. PnP players het to watch a dice roll across the table why cant we? On-screen feedback is a must.
2. Cloaks. Can we see them soon. You can do it in LOTRO, why not in DDO?
3. Make some armour-sets more akin to the fetching (female D&D) artwork we see from day-to-day. Thus more 'macho for the menfolk.
4. Dont let the whingers pull you in with this 'open areas' stuff. Check out the dungeon bit in D&D. Make more trickier and deadlier dungeons. More team-oriented solutions for traps would be nice also.
5. Fix the pathfinding of the mobs who want to melee the player. It's borked, they invariably do a square dance on their way to bash you with a big club. Just watching them cracks me up and I forget to hit them, or miss because they dozey-do'd (whatever)
6. Record some new tunes for the bards.
7. Sort out the auction house. Force sellers to put up a buyout price for a start.
8. Introduce a hairdresser's salon so players can change their hairstyle and colo(u)r to suit their mood.
If, Turbine, you are already doing any of the above, good on ya.....
i am a long time PnPer (DnD, Vampires, the Masquerade, Rifts, etc). Mind you that was a fairly long time ago, ~10 years since I played regularly, with a few attempts since with the boys.
Ihave played DAOC, a bit of Warcraft. Never really did the Everquest thing. But I have played a lot of stand-alone CRPG's over the years. I also haven't tried guild wars, which I am led isn't completely dis-similar.
I am only new to DDO, so perhaps my vision is not clouded from from having NOT played in beta, or the first few months and been forever embittered since.
I personally find DDO (as it NOW stands, not how it MAY have been 12 months ago) to be a lot of fun, and quite frankly, about as good an emulation of PnP as I would expect. I actually think it does a decent job of introducting new things. For example, when my halfling was sneaking through a dungeon, and I get the message that says you sense a light breeze from somewhere, that was way cool. Or that there are only places you can climb/jump to where u need that rogue. The introductions to the level.
To say that the game is a perfect emulation of 3.5 edition rules would be correct. But IMO, it has captured the flavour of the rules quite well.
I guess what i am saying is that the game isn't pefect, it isn't ground breaking in any technical sense (but it is no slouch either), for me, it all comes together somehow, and just has that indescribable fun factor.
Partly because it is D&D (I love seeing my +X weapon, just like to old days). Also, the action combat system is fun and interesting, and I love the fact I am not wasting my time running from one place to another (yes, more out doors would be nice, and it is coming)
Rather than start a new thread, I'll jump into this one. I just recently created a DDO account to try the beta (which I've downloaded but not installed yet until I have a few days off to play around with).
It seems from reading the forums that a large percentage of complaints/dislike about DDO stems from its high reliance on instances. My question is: did you know ahead of time that DDO was like that, or did you assume it was a traditional persistent world MMORPG only to be disappointed? I'm wondering if your opinion would have been different if you knew what you were getting beforehand...
It almost seems -- and again, this is strictly assumption on my part from reading forums so I may be way off-base -- that the whole instancing thing is to simulate the whole "D&D and modules" theme. In the PnP game, the modules were all stand-alone, there really were extremely few, if any, continuous storyline module series (at least way back when I played). And frankly, even in a seamless and persistent world such as WoW, you wind up grinding instances ad infinitum with little or no storyline or motive to do so other than to hopefully get some new loot.
I guess I'll find out in a week or so when I get some time off, but in the meantime I just wonder if DDO isn't trying to simulate the module gameplay style while trying to eliminate some of the traditional MMORPG time-sinks such as travel time, etc. just to get you into the action faster?
I knew what I was getting into with DDO, but it eventually just got not fun for me. I can sum it up into 2 problems.
1 - randomness. The first time through a dungeon was fun. After that, it wasn't so fun. Not knowing when you'll get jumped or where traps are adds a level of cautiousness to players that completely disappears when they have learned the dungeon. Having the whole party sneak around, hug walls, and hide behind walls when a door is open or a trap being disarmed can't be duplicated without random dungeons. And that was what I found fun in the game.
2 - Party required. I had THE SINGLE MOST EFFECTIVE soloer that I could imagine, and I still couldn't solo meaningful experience. I could get things done, loot traps, but if my buddies weren't on, I mine as well log off. I understand the need for group-based gaming, especially in DDO. I'm a group oriented game proponent over the 'power to the soloer' people. But if you can't do anything without a group, well then, people will eventually stop playing.
But 2 would be solved a bit by solving 1, since I wouldn't mind PUGing, and I think others would agree, if the PUGGers weren't stupid and zergy and stuck on stereotyping classes.
DDO is actually a pretty decent MMO. It is not however my style of play at the moment, but I am not bitter over this like so many others.
MMO players need to try it for themselves. Contrary to a post above, I too found the game to be innovative. I enjoyed the combat system, and the instanced dungeons felt like a D&D module to me.
My main issues (which Turbine seems to be addressing) is that 1). Too confining for my taste. I prefer vast open gamescapes. 2). I need to be able to solo. I completely understand that D&D Online should be focused on groups. I'd even go so far as to say they should keep it that way at the risk of not gaining me as a customer. That sounds odd I know, but I'd much rather have diversity in the MMO industry than to have every MMO the same (ie, the complete waste of resources that Turbine used to implement PvP where it wasn't necessary).
_____________________________ Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
So Turbine has made improvements in DDO but when the company publically states 'they learned many lessons' from a game, that is the same as admitting they made lot of MISTAKES with it.
"Although Turbine's last game, Dungeons & Dragons Online, did not involve the same development team, that game does hang over he company. Davidson says the LotRO team learned plenty of lessons from DDO and that they are completely different games. He also notes that DDO is entirely different now than when it launched and that speaks to Turbines ability to take feedback and implement new content effectively."
Personally, I'm not interested in paying a developer to learn how to make a decent game. I prefer to spend my money on a game that is decent to start. MMORPGs seem to be the only gaming genre where this kind of failure is accepted, where developers are given this kind of second chance. I think it's one of the great weaknesses of the genre and results in fiascos like the Vanguard release.
But as long as there are people out there willing to pay for games that need fixing upon release, the practice will always continue.
I guess I really don't understand all of the DDO hate here. IMO there are aspects of this game that are the best in any game at this point. Also, the developers are creating new content constantly and are very active in communicating with the community. I'm not saying that the game doesn't have any problems but every MMORPG that I ever played has problems. This game is 100% better now than it was at the start. I'm really interested in the opinions of people that have tried the game out in the last 3 months or so. What is your opinion?
DDO gives D&D a bad name. They bastardized and FUBARed the D&D rules, and replaced them with a more "MMO friendly" ruleset. Thats incorrect, false, and just plain stupid to do. If DDO dies, I couldnt be happier.
Comments
Holy person that's more wrong than two guys having sex, Batman!!!!
There's no way in hell that DDO is "the most ground breaking game out right now". You sir are a moron and a Fanboi.
First of all you have to grind rep to get the full amount of skill points at character creation.
You have to grind rep to unlock one of the races.
Everyone knows where all the traps are in the dungeons and the dungeons are the same everytime you play them.
DDO is based on itemization just like every other MMO out there. They have crappy collectables that just take up space in your inventory. There's not awhole lot of depth going on in that game.
Also, there's nothing... NOTHING in DDO that is ground breaking.
DDO is a sad parody of every other fanatsy based MMORPG out.
Nothing about the gameplay or the game itself warrants a monthly fee.
In short, DDO sucks and so does WoW. You couldn't be more wrong if you farted in church during your first born child's baptism when the priest called for a moment of silence.
Holy person that's more wrong than two guys having sex, Batman!!!!
There's no way in hell that DDO is "the most ground breaking game out right now". You sir are a moron and a Fanboi.
First of all you have to grind rep to get the full amount of skill points at character creation.
You have to grind rep to unlock one of the races.
Everyone knows where all the traps are in the dungeons and the dungeons are the same everytime you play them.
DDO is based on itemization just like every other MMO out there. They have crappy collectables that just take up space in your inventory. There's not awhole lot of depth going on in that game.
Also, there's nothing... NOTHING in DDO that is ground breaking.
DDO is a sad parody of every other fanatsy based MMORPG out.
Nothing about the gameplay or the game itself warrants a monthly fee.
In short, DDO sucks and so does WoW. You couldn't be more wrong if you farted in church during your first born child's baptism when the priest called for a moment of silence.
The games are different. I do not like WoW but lots of others do (obviously).
DDO is different in some significant areas.... would I call it ground breaking? Not nessessarily but the big difference to me is the combat system which is the best (for me) I've seen since AC1.
Also, DDO dungeons DO have random elements and my understanding is that they are working on more randomness and making true randomly generated dungeons.
The big thing about DDO is that it is NOT for hard core gamers but rather caters to a more adult casual gamer as is evident by the player base. Most of us don't really care about getting to the higher Reputation numbers as it is not the point and we will get there eventually.
The embedded voice chat leads to a much more appealing gaming experience and the smaller player base means that you see the same people relatively frequently even if they are on different characters.
Over all DDO is one of the best gaming experiences I've had.
DDO is not a game I would pay monthly for... If I wanted this type of game I'd be still playing Guild Wars... I'm stuck waiting for AoC or Warhammer Online atm for a game to play.
ok here goes
-List an mmo without a few bugs and one that is completely finished at launch. Just one come on name one. DDO launched as a fun playable product from the start.
-It cant follow the 3.5 ruleset to the letter because that doesnt translate to a non turn based system such as DDO has. It does however adapt the rules very well.
-All MMO's have lingering bugs and will probably always have lingering bugs but DDO has a huge portion of thiers ironed out. Try playing the game before you post nonsense.
-Most of the classes are complete and functional and complement each other well. You cant have a literal translation from 3.5 rules to an MMO it just doesnt work as I stated before.
-Any game is a grind. However DDO's grind is what you make of it. This game has to be one of the lightest grinds I've ever experienced in a game which is a bonus.
-Obviously you have to actually bother to read the text to understand the lore. Something I'm convinced you are incappable of.
-The graphics are good, try maybe not playing on very low settings. I cant find many released games with better graphics to be honest.
-DDO was NEVER supposed to have PVP but people whined enough that they put it in. D&D has nothing to do with balanced classes and I'm glad they didnt give in to the children crying for balance because thier fighter cant kill a mage at level 12. The fighter is always supposed to lose that fight..... ALWAYS.
-Gameplay is fast, fun and can be exciting. You obviously were a horrid player and if you couldnt find any way to innovate and enhance your basic tab pushing in this game than any game you play is going to be an awful experience for you. Im glad I never had to deal with your lack of skill in any of my partys.
-Think about dungeons and dragons for a second its pretty much instanced.... yeah thats right you skip over traveling your DM just says ok you travel there and rolls for maybe a random encounter then you go and do your quest...... Instance much? The translation again is good you just like to complain. I think if it would have been wide open you would have complained about that saying you were sick of other people taking your spots and you wish there was more instancing. BTW Mod 4 adds a huge new outdoor area to the game and along with the desert there is room to explore.
These among others are real reasons to love the game for what it is.
As a founder and a community advisor (no longer active), I can say that the only real standout problem I have with DDO is that it is static. I feel like candyland has more variety in gameplay than DDO. Almost everything else, I enjoy or appreciate as a valuable contribution to the MMO industry.
It's just a shame that I realize variety and the random element of an MMO is what makes it worth playing. For instance, one of the most memorable moments in DDO where when I ran into another group within a dungeon. I thought it was the coolest thing ever, then I found out it was a bug. A few days later it was patched
The two top reasons players cancelled their accounts is 1: No open world content, and 2: The FPS combat system, the recent poll suggested overwhelmingly that the majority of current players would welcome the Combat Change. Keep in mind this isn't some half baked broken combat system, this is the well polished LOTRO combat system with the D20 dice rolls shown. Further if you Read Jeff Bakers Ebberon books or the Ebberon Campaign you will find a deep rich setting , It's a cross between Warmachine and Forgotten Realms, and is very exciting, Wizards wants Turbine to open up this world and given the fact that Turbine needs DDO to be successful to gain venture capitol for future project they really don't have much of a choice, they can't live just on the success of LOTRO (Which is only going to be moderately successful) I was full of doubt when talking to my friend about this too, but once he explained the reasoning I was pretty excited.
The LOTR combat system is outdated garbage IMO. The next GEN systems will be something that requires tactical melee strikes to certain body parts inflicting major damage coupled with a mortal combat type animation system with grapples, decapitations, de-limbing etc... LOTR combat is boring.. Its no different that whats been beaten to death in most MMO's and practicly lulled me into a coma after an hour.The whole DDO world being one big Guild Wars type instance is what killed it.. The FPS combat was unique and tolerable and only missing what I describe above as a mortal combat system.. That game needed vast rolling fields, and heavy-experimental crafting to entertain players. Pen and Paper is just that PnP.. Its rules need not find themselves in any MMORPG as far as I'm concerned.. The only thing that they should of used from DDO was its theme, characters, classes/spells and world.. No one wanted to pay 15 bucks a month for an online instanced quest that felt very much like Diablo peer to peer hosted games. Thats what killed it and no LOTR clicking flashing icons and waiting for timers will fix that major game flaw.
The two top reasons players cancelled their accounts is 1: No open world content, and 2: The FPS combat system, the recent poll suggested overwhelmingly that the majority of current players would welcome the Combat Change. Keep in mind this isn't some half baked broken combat system, this is the well polished LOTRO combat system with the D20 dice rolls shown. Further if you Read Jeff Bakers Ebberon books or the Ebberon Campaign you will find a deep rich setting , It's a cross between Warmachine and Forgotten Realms, and is very exciting, Wizards wants Turbine to open up this world and given the fact that Turbine needs DDO to be successful to gain venture capitol for future project they really don't have much of a choice, they can't live just on the success of LOTRO (Which is only going to be moderately successful) I was full of doubt when talking to my friend about this too, but once he explained the reasoning I was pretty excited.
Let me know when/if this happens (different combat system, more open world). I may be interested in playing then.MMO games played or tested: EQ, DAoC, Archlord, Auto Assault, CoH, CoV, EQ2, EVE, Guild Wars, Hellgate: London, Linneage II, LOTRO, MxO, Planetside, SWG, Sword of the New World, Tabula Rasa, Vanguard, WWIIOL, WOW, Age of Conan
Its looks great and plays fine but at the time making people pay for a very short game was a little cheeky. If they made it F2P tommorrow ill be down PC world to snap up 1 of the many boxes they have had the shelves for the last year, ill pay for expansions ofc just like in GW.
I did like DDO, i played the beta and honestly enjoyed myself, but before DDO i used to play GW and didn't like GW due to the missing pve content. If indeed DDO was 'F2P' (like GW) i'd probably play it again.
And the so called 'D&D ruleset' doesn't mean anything to me i found it rather fun me jumping in water with plate armor and going 'blub blub'
I guess the people that are familiar with the D&D ruleset are 'dissapointed' but for people like me who never heard of that couldn't care less. Doesn't take away the game missing 'explorable' content.
And i don't think you can 'hate' a game, you like or dislike it. You can however hate the people that made the game :P
As for the gameplay...its very un-immersive with all the instances. Not a 'virtual world' that draws you in. I did like the 'twitch' aspect to combat though.
Anyways I didn't like it. Prefer a real mmorpg like EQ, DAOC, Vanguard etc.
The Brave Do Not Fear The Grave
I think DDO gets a bad rap mainly because most people that play (or played) it and rate it bad, don't play it from a D&D perspective but from a modern day MMO perspective. Which it is, but I think that it was built trying to keep to its D&D roots for the most part. You can't just blitz through DDO as with WoW, EQ, CoH, etc and appreciate it. You have to savor it.
Unfortunately, when it originally came out there were too few quests and a lot of the PUG's were blitzing in style. You ended up repeating quests (very un D&D like) which became monotonous.
With the welcome back weekend, I'm going to try DDO again and see if the things have changed. I'm sure there are many new quests.
I'm not a DDO Hater, just a D&D'er that had hoped DDO would have been much more at release.
First and foremost, thanks for supporting DDO. Founders have been with us since the beginning and have contributed a great deal to the community. Now, a few answers for you:
Rangers will be receiving pets via their summon nature's ally spell in the April module, Reaver's Bane (another free expansion to the game). You'll also see more landscape adventure areas, such as Gianthold (for high-level players) and the Cerulean Hills (low-level). We're adding a lot of great features to the game in this latest release, and you can read more about them on the website (www.ddo.com).
I think you're referring to Keith Baker, the creator of the Eberron campaign setting. While Keith has done work for us in the past, he's not the lead on DDO. James Jones (Executive Producer), Kate Paiz (Producer), and others lead the game development.
The Active Combat feature in DDO is one of the game's strengths, and we don't have any plans to change it. LOTRO does not use the d20 system like DDO.
Guild housing and other features are mentioned in Kate's State of the Game post. You can read that here: http://www.ddo.com/article/845.
As always, you can read the latest information at our forums: http://www.ddo.com/forums/index.php?23.
TSRJim what about the pricing martinj63 mentioned in his post that DDO would also offer a lifetime membership deal that LOTR does for pre-ordering. Any truth to that?
If not I would be willing to pay for a all games pass similar to what SOE has with their station pass. Pass that up to your bosses so they can start researching the idea, PLEASE. I am having to cancel DDO to play LOTR and I want to play both as well see how much AC has changed through the years.
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
Everyone knows where all the traps are in the DDO dungeons. Does everyone know where all the traps are in WoW dungeons? No, they don't. Oh yeah, that's because WoW dungeons don't have any real traps. You just kinda walk through and kill stuff, er, I mean, kill incredibly-random monsters that are so random they might be 10 feet over from where they were the last time.
It seems from reading the forums that a large percentage of complaints/dislike about DDO stems from its high reliance on instances. My question is: did you know ahead of time that DDO was like that, or did you assume it was a traditional persistent world MMORPG only to be disappointed? I'm wondering if your opinion would have been different if you knew what you were getting beforehand...
It almost seems -- and again, this is strictly assumption on my part from reading forums so I may be way off-base -- that the whole instancing thing is to simulate the whole "D&D and modules" theme. In the PnP game, the modules were all stand-alone, there really were extremely few, if any, continuous storyline module series (at least way back when I played). And frankly, even in a seamless and persistent world such as WoW, you wind up grinding instances ad infinitum with little or no storyline or motive to do so other than to hopefully get some new loot.
I guess I'll find out in a week or so when I get some time off, but in the meantime I just wonder if DDO isn't trying to simulate the module gameplay style while trying to eliminate some of the traditional MMORPG time-sinks such as travel time, etc. just to get you into the action faster?
HOWEVER in the context of it being D&D Online I got problems:
Avatars not customizable enough. What's more important that your character in D&D? Who didn't work every angle of the rules in an attempt to make yourself unique or different?
RPG, where are you? so much of the talk is about the combat. But when I played D&D most of the time was spent in roleplay that lead to combat. Not just get together and start off dungeon crawling.
And finally the gamebreaker: Not being able to walk out the front gate of Stormreach and explore. I was floored when I realized this was the case. In response to the previous poster, I dont remember whether I was informed of this or not, but I tell you there is no way I would have beleived a game claiming to be D&D to be so restricted in it's scope. If someone had sat me down and really made it clear how it was, (I probably wouldn't have believed it) I wouldn't have even bought the game.
If the current DDO game dynamics are your cup of tea then its a fine MMO. But don't go calling it D&D Online.
The anger comes from companies using the "Theme" of something you love to sell you a game, then delivering whatever they can come up with.
Codies sent me a beta key for LOTRO and as a result may now find they lose a DDO sub, but gain a LOTRO. Oye! Codies! Let's be having across the board subs for all your hosted games like those awful Sony people do.
There are some things I'd really like to see in DDO which I think would make my experience with the game a little bit better, silly things which could add up to make the game a bit more 'playable', more in-yer-face. I doubt they'd take too much resource to do.
1. Animate the dice-rolls please and lets have a nice big HIT flash up when we do actually hit. PnP players het to watch a dice roll across the table why cant we? On-screen feedback is a must.
2. Cloaks. Can we see them soon. You can do it in LOTRO, why not in DDO?
3. Make some armour-sets more akin to the fetching (female D&D) artwork we see from day-to-day. Thus more 'macho for the menfolk.
4. Dont let the whingers pull you in with this 'open areas' stuff. Check out the dungeon bit in D&D. Make more trickier and deadlier dungeons. More team-oriented solutions for traps would be nice also.
5. Fix the pathfinding of the mobs who want to melee the player. It's borked, they invariably do a square dance on their way to bash you with a big club. Just watching them cracks me up and I forget to hit them, or miss because they dozey-do'd (whatever)
6. Record some new tunes for the bards.
7. Sort out the auction house. Force sellers to put up a buyout price for a start.
8. Introduce a hairdresser's salon so players can change their hairstyle and colo(u)r to suit their mood.
If, Turbine, you are already doing any of the above, good on ya.....
Ihave played DAOC, a bit of Warcraft. Never really did the Everquest thing. But I have played a lot of stand-alone CRPG's over the years. I also haven't tried guild wars, which I am led isn't completely dis-similar.
I am only new to DDO, so perhaps my vision is not clouded from from having NOT played in beta, or the first few months and been forever embittered since.
I personally find DDO (as it NOW stands, not how it MAY have been 12 months ago) to be a lot of fun, and quite frankly, about as good an emulation of PnP as I would expect. I actually think it does a decent job of introducting new things. For example, when my halfling was sneaking through a dungeon, and I get the message that says you sense a light breeze from somewhere, that was way cool. Or that there are only places you can climb/jump to where u need that rogue. The introductions to the level.
To say that the game is a perfect emulation of 3.5 edition rules would be correct. But IMO, it has captured the flavour of the rules quite well.
I guess what i am saying is that the game isn't pefect, it isn't ground breaking in any technical sense (but it is no slouch either), for me, it all comes together somehow, and just has that indescribable fun factor.
Partly because it is D&D (I love seeing my +X weapon, just like to old days). Also, the action combat system is fun and interesting, and I love the fact I am not wasting my time running from one place to another (yes, more out doors would be nice, and it is coming)
I knew what I was getting into with DDO, but it eventually just got not fun for me. I can sum it up into 2 problems.
1 - randomness. The first time through a dungeon was fun. After that, it wasn't so fun. Not knowing when you'll get jumped or where traps are adds a level of cautiousness to players that completely disappears when they have learned the dungeon. Having the whole party sneak around, hug walls, and hide behind walls when a door is open or a trap being disarmed can't be duplicated without random dungeons. And that was what I found fun in the game.
2 - Party required. I had THE SINGLE MOST EFFECTIVE soloer that I could imagine, and I still couldn't solo meaningful experience. I could get things done, loot traps, but if my buddies weren't on, I mine as well log off. I understand the need for group-based gaming, especially in DDO. I'm a group oriented game proponent over the 'power to the soloer' people. But if you can't do anything without a group, well then, people will eventually stop playing.
But 2 would be solved a bit by solving 1, since I wouldn't mind PUGing, and I think others would agree, if the PUGGers weren't stupid and zergy and stuck on stereotyping classes.
DDO is actually a pretty decent MMO. It is not however my style of play at the moment, but I am not bitter over this like so many others.
MMO players need to try it for themselves. Contrary to a post above, I too found the game to be innovative. I enjoyed the combat system, and the instanced dungeons felt like a D&D module to me.
My main issues (which Turbine seems to be addressing) is that 1). Too confining for my taste. I prefer vast open gamescapes. 2). I need to be able to solo. I completely understand that D&D Online should be focused on groups. I'd even go so far as to say they should keep it that way at the risk of not gaining me as a customer. That sounds odd I know, but I'd much rather have diversity in the MMO industry than to have every MMO the same (ie, the complete waste of resources that Turbine used to implement PvP where it wasn't necessary).
_____________________________
Currently Playing: LOTRO; DDO
Played: AC2, AO, Auto Assault, CoX, DAoC, DDO, Earth&Beyond, EQ1, EQ2, EVE, Fallen Earth, Jumpgate, Roma Victor, Second Life, SWG, V:SoH, WoW, World War II Online.
Games I'm watching: Infinity: The Quest for Earth, Force of Arms.
Find the Truth: http://www.factcheck.org/
So Turbine has made improvements in DDO but when the company publically states 'they learned many lessons' from a game, that is the same as admitting they made lot of MISTAKES with it.
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/03/18/lord-of-the-rings-online-team-confident-entering-mmo-market/
"Although Turbine's last game, Dungeons & Dragons Online, did not involve the same development team, that game does hang over he company. Davidson says the LotRO team learned plenty of lessons from DDO and that they are completely different games. He also notes that DDO is entirely different now than when it launched and that speaks to Turbines ability to take feedback and implement new content effectively."
Personally, I'm not interested in paying a developer to learn how to make a decent game. I prefer to spend my money on a game that is decent to start. MMORPGs seem to be the only gaming genre where this kind of failure is accepted, where developers are given this kind of second chance. I think it's one of the great weaknesses of the genre and results in fiascos like the Vanguard release.
But as long as there are people out there willing to pay for games that need fixing upon release, the practice will always continue.
DDO gives D&D a bad name. They bastardized and FUBARed the D&D rules, and replaced them with a more "MMO friendly" ruleset. Thats incorrect, false, and just plain stupid to do. If DDO dies, I couldnt be happier.
...Fricken burning hands damage...spell effects...they screwed EVERYTHING up.