You people are focusing on the real voice thing too much.
I am more concerned with the fact that in a virtual world you are supposed to have limited communication based on the environment. In a fantasy game for instance, you aren't supposed to be able to talk to people outside of shouting range. Being able to do so ruins immersion and creates an advantage in MMOGs that offer PvP. If it's not part of the game design, something that is offered to all players equally, it shouldn't be allowed. It's similar to using a macro.
i WILL not use a any way to talk while in games, teamspeak or other, i am the type ONLY kind of person. Guilds now require you to have this so i guess i will NEVER apply for any guild in these games. I quit some just cuz most of the people used this.
I've never been in a guild in any MMO that hasn't used vent all the time. I hate having to stop and type all the time, and you get to know people a lot better if you have a real voice to talk to.It also takes the guesswork out of playing with potential weirdos. If they claim they are a 25 year old male, you'll be able to tell whether they are lying. Being that I've met ~80% of people that I have gamed with for an extended period, it also makes that first face to face a lot less surprising, and that's a good thing.
Well said, that is exactly what I look for in guilds, you can't get any closer to someone other than their voice when online gaming.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
i WILL not use a any way to talk while in games, teamspeak or other, i am the type ONLY kind of person. Guilds now require you to have this so i guess i will NEVER apply for any guild in these games. I quit some just cuz most of the people used this.
I guess its all about why you are playing an mmorpg. Some players want the rpg part and immersion is important for them so they will not want to use voice chat. The problem is that in the end game most mmorpgs require voice chat for those hard instances and boss monsters. Without voice chat there simply is no organisation and without that no success.
Are you really going to stop playing the eq/wow-style mmorpgs at mid game? Voice chat is becoming more and more mandatory everywhere. Its the only way to make more interesting and hard group quests/actions.
--- Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Well, I am in a very small "Elite" clan (Not to make me sound l33t or anything) and we all use Skype. We just confrence ourselves together and play our games.
Enemy Territory
City of Heros
Battlefield 2142
Dawn of War (Mostly)
Supreme Commander
they all add in abit of fun and make your team more coordinated. It is best to play with a group of people.
I can totally see where you are coming from when you say it takes away from the game. Most of the time, the people talking on BF2142 add nothing and end up getting me killed more then anything.
So, I guess, the problems can really be subverted if you find a group of people you enjoy hanging out with online. If it is just random people? I turn that crap off.
He's talking about MMORPGS, not FPS.
Goodbye.
Not that it really matters, but thank god I talked about MMO then, huh?
My original point was that it really doesn't take away from the game if you are with a small group of friends or on a secure line or something. This isn't a problem inherent to MMOs. Sorry if I gave examples of other genres that have online voice chatting...
Wow I was going to make a topic on this as well tonight. Last night for the first time ever I played a MMORPG with voice chat enabled. I was playing LOTR and the group I was in was using it so I had to enable the option or I would have been lost...
It was as bad as I imagined it would be. Completely lost all sense of immersion and despite being very nice people it was still grating to hear them talk about the game so seriously. It's almost "embarassing" hearing a grown man and woman talk about how to kill orcs or which magic necklace was better. Maybe thats just me.
The worst part is almost becoming expected now to have it in groups. I would not want to see this option removed for those that do appreciate it but it is a tough pill to swallow for me. With friends (as another poster stated) I could almost enjoy it myself I suppose but around strangers I want to use my imagination. Its just not as fun/immersive for me when it is driven home that Uros is just some teen from Alabama not the hardened dwarven hero he appears.
I don't think it is a good thing for MMORPG's but I'm not quite sure what the answer is as so many people clearly like it. Its also a big advantage in pvp games and as a big fan of that style I may even have to cave in and join the crowd for Conan or WAR. A shame but I really don't know what to suggest when you have things like ventrilo that are 3rd party apps the game can't prevent. No real way to prevent it so I may have to join in sadly.
I agree. Voice chat ruins the immersion of a MMOG. I wish there was a way to design a MMOG so it couldn't be utilized.
Not to be sounding like I'm picking on you,but far from it. I hear that all the time about it breaking immersion in an MMO. Voice communication is just essential in any group oriented game as it just takes way to long to type out importent information in a timely fashion. And nothing is more immersive than putting a voice on the other end of that toon ( be it a squeeky 12 year old ) lol . But seriously games like Counter Strike and Team Fort Classic have done this for years and it works out wonderful.
Games like Counter Strike don't have dwarfs or elves or even robots for that matter.
Gone is the day of RPG's I guess. Could you imagine an RPG server full of people on Ventrilo? Never!
I couldn't agree more. Voice chat in an RPG is ridiculous, and I'll never go anywhere near playing with people who use it again. Tried it for a short time, realized that people I could like in text I couldn't stand outside of those limitations, uninstalled that crap voice software, and won't ever consider it again. And if anyone says "You need it for raids!"....well, people who take a stupid game that seriously aren't people I want to be around anyhow.
I don't even know where to begin with this thread, let alone this post. It's ridiculous that people use voice chat and use it for raids but your presence on an internet forum about video games doesn't strike you as 'ridiculous'? "people who take a stupid game seriously"... What exactly are you trying to say? That people are stupid by correlation (they are playing a stupid game) all the while adding "[taking it] seriously" just to be able to exclude yourself? Is this a joke?
I'd continue with you, and several others of this thread, but I'd quickly break a couple 'no flaming' rules. I'll just add that just because it's been suggested while growing up that we're all special and bright and have great ideas doesn't make any of it true.
As to the focus, I don't understand the argument at all. I don't see what of the immersiveness is ruined by hearing other people's voices. It sounds like the experience you're looking for can be found at your local library in the fiction section. Or perhaps even in the single player section of retail stores. I can imagine that in the first run through of the game, there is some immersion, but once you've experienced most of the actual game/game world, there is less focus on the game itself and more on the community aspect. But beyond that first run, I don't see AT ALL how voice chat ruins any of it. And even then, I think voice chat adds to that first run, especially with friends, but I won't argue about with randoms as you're luck with them is just that...random.
If the communication system of an MMORG is so bad that to have effective communication in the game, you need Vent/Teamspeak/RW/skype etc, then that is a badly made, badly planned and badly executed MMORPG.
Its funny, but I was going to create a similar topic. I agree, Voice chat has destroyed the fine art of text chatting. Back in the day, people used to be able to type long passages in guild chat or whatever, and still play the game. Younger players might not remember this, but we used to actually coordinate raids quite well w/o voice chat. Yes, its really quite possible to do....
I used to belong to an all Kobold, Role playing guild called Shadowclan in DAOC. Voice chat is completely incompatible with a hardcore guild like SC that actually had its own roleplaying language that everyone had to use almost all the time. ( OOC was frowned on, even in private tells)
I'm currently in LoTRO..and really being drawn in by the immersion of the game's lore. While my voice sounds pretty much like a Dwarf's would, if I decide to play an elf its gonna blow the immersion for everyone....
These days...I find people spend more time playing the game than socializing like they did back in the day when only text chat was available.... which is a loss IMO.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Kinda ruins the magic when that beautiful elven sorceress sounds like a ten year old boy with a lisp huh?
But what if the voice chat had a built-in voice modulating synthesizer that would make that 10yo boy sound like a beautiful elven sorceress (or a Dwarf, or an old hag, or a 8' tall 15,000 lb. mech, or a...)?
a built-in voice modulating synthesizer that would make that 10yo boy sound like a beautiful elven sorceress (or a Dwarf, or an old hag, or a 8' tall 15,000 lb. mech, or a...)
....With a lisp.
There are limitations in voice manipulation and it will never get rid of speech impediments or accents.
Of course, there is very little difference between the voice of young boy and a grown female. It's the lisp that gives away the fact that it's just a really effeminate male.
a built-in voice modulating synthesizer that would make that 10yo boy sound like a beautiful elven sorceress (or a Dwarf, or an old hag, or a 8' tall 15,000 lb. mech, or a...) ....With a lisp. There are limitations in voice manipulation and it will never get rid of speech impediments or accents. Of course, there is very little difference between the voice of young boy and a grown female. It's the lisp that gives away the fact that it's just a really effeminate male.
Lisp? Of the thousands of people I've met and known in my life only one had a discernible lisp...if there were any others they must have undergone effective speech therapy. As for those who have heavy accents...I guess they should work a little harder on their verbal skills, if they insist on playing on an english speaking server.
The show must go on!
On the other hand...the good 'ol keyboard will still be available so that people can make annotations on their in-game maps and entries in their in-game journals, etc...
As for any other limitations of the technology, I don't see them as being that difficult to overcome.
Kinda ruins the magic when that beautiful elven sorceress sounds like a ten year old boy with a lisp huh?
lol
Coulple things
Voice chat isn't necessary but is infinitely more efficient than typing. Anything that requires solid group organization greatly benefits from being able to vocalize communication.
And when you get into something that is so intense as to REQUIRE voice chat, you're probably not worried about immersion so much as not getting wiped or whatever.
DDO has voice chat and it works very well. The P&P people will probably note that rolling dice, chatting with your friends can coexist with being immersed in the game and therefore so can voice chat.
Voice chat probably works better in sci-fi games than fantasy ones, as not talking in an English accent won't necessarily break character. Especially in games like EVE where you don't even have a character.
Voice filters are on the horizon. But right now voice chat still hasn't caught on as a standardized way of communicating in-game, and that has to happen first. Right now most players and developers are too content relying on Ventrilo or TS to even bother.
I occasionally play L2 and don't even bother unless i'm logged in to my guild's vent server. I am a huge advocate of immersion but the efficiency of voice chat cannot be beat. And besides you really get to know people better when you speak to them rather than type.
Comments
You people are focusing on the real voice thing too much.
I am more concerned with the fact that in a virtual world you are supposed to have limited communication based on the environment. In a fantasy game for instance, you aren't supposed to be able to talk to people outside of shouting range. Being able to do so ruins immersion and creates an advantage in MMOGs that offer PvP. If it's not part of the game design, something that is offered to all players equally, it shouldn't be allowed. It's similar to using a macro.
I've been crying about this for years now...I'm happy to report that some developers are actually talking about this feature now.
Check it out...at terra nova
EDIT: I'd love to give you guys a link but this editor sucks!
i WILL not use a any way to talk while in games, teamspeak or other, i am the type ONLY kind of person. Guilds now require you to have this so i guess i will NEVER apply for any guild in these games. I quit some just cuz most of the people used this.
Currently Playing: Everything but MMORPGs
Cancelled: L2, FFXI, VSoH, LotRO, WAR, WoW
Looking Forward To: SW:TOR
Are you really going to stop playing the eq/wow-style mmorpgs at mid game? Voice chat is becoming more and more mandatory everywhere. Its the only way to make more interesting and hard group quests/actions.
---
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
He's talking about MMORPGS, not FPS.
Goodbye.
Not that it really matters, but thank god I talked about MMO then, huh?
My original point was that it really doesn't take away from the game if you are with a small group of friends or on a secure line or something. This isn't a problem inherent to MMOs. Sorry if I gave examples of other genres that have online voice chatting...
QFT
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</OBAMA>
Not to be sounding like I'm picking on you,but far from it. I hear that all the time about it breaking immersion in an MMO. Voice communication is just essential in any group oriented game as it just takes way to long to type out importent information in a timely fashion. And nothing is more immersive than putting a voice on the other end of that toon ( be it a squeeky 12 year old ) lol . But seriously games like Counter Strike and Team Fort Classic have done this for years and it works out wonderful.
Games like Counter Strike don't have dwarfs or elves or even robots for that matter.Gone is the day of RPG's I guess. Could you imagine an RPG server full of people on Ventrilo? Never!
-----------------------
</OBAMA>
I don't even know where to begin with this thread, let alone this post. It's ridiculous that people use voice chat and use it for raids but your presence on an internet forum about video games doesn't strike you as 'ridiculous'? "people who take a stupid game seriously"... What exactly are you trying to say? That people are stupid by correlation (they are playing a stupid game) all the while adding "[taking it] seriously" just to be able to exclude yourself? Is this a joke?
I'd continue with you, and several others of this thread, but I'd quickly break a couple 'no flaming' rules. I'll just add that just because it's been suggested while growing up that we're all special and bright and have great ideas doesn't make any of it true.
As to the focus, I don't understand the argument at all. I don't see what of the immersiveness is ruined by hearing other people's voices. It sounds like the experience you're looking for can be found at your local library in the fiction section. Or perhaps even in the single player section of retail stores. I can imagine that in the first run through of the game, there is some immersion, but once you've experienced most of the actual game/game world, there is less focus on the game itself and more on the community aspect. But beyond that first run, I don't see AT ALL how voice chat ruins any of it. And even then, I think voice chat adds to that first run, especially with friends, but I won't argue about with randoms as you're luck with them is just that...random.
You don't make any sense-----------------------
</OBAMA>
All I'm going to say is:
If the communication system of an MMORG is so bad that to have effective communication in the game, you need Vent/Teamspeak/RW/skype etc, then that is a badly made, badly planned and badly executed MMORPG.
I used to belong to an all Kobold, Role playing guild called Shadowclan in DAOC. Voice chat is completely incompatible with a hardcore guild like SC that actually had its own roleplaying language that everyone had to use almost all the time. ( OOC was frowned on, even in private tells)
I'm currently in LoTRO..and really being drawn in by the immersion of the game's lore. While my voice sounds pretty much like a Dwarf's would, if I decide to play an elf its gonna blow the immersion for everyone....
These days...I find people spend more time playing the game than socializing like they did back in the day when only text chat was available.... which is a loss IMO.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
We were all good friends though, and when you can talk to other people and socialize it makes grinding out experience in some cave a lot better.
Makes it much better when she sounds like a Bond girl.
If the entire converation, is " what's better a +3 sword of rnchanting or a +3 hammer of life". I disconnect.
If it's folks having a laugh I'm up for it.
Also it's nice to run in an a ninja co-ordinated team for those tricky gameplay challenges.
Just another reason to solo, I guess
If I get into a group, I'll just have to Rp a deaf-mute - If I wanted to talk to ya, I'd have phoned ya!
<p align=center><a target=_blank href=http://www.nodiatis.com/personality.htm><img border=0 src=http://www.nodiatis.com/pub/20.jpg></a></p>;
a built-in voice modulating synthesizer that would make that 10yo boy sound like a beautiful elven sorceress (or a Dwarf, or an old hag, or a 8' tall 15,000 lb. mech, or a...)
....With a lisp.
There are limitations in voice manipulation and it will never get rid of speech impediments or accents.
Of course, there is very little difference between the voice of young boy and a grown female. It's the lisp that gives away the fact that it's just a really effeminate male.
The show must go on!
On the other hand...the good 'ol keyboard will still be available so that people can make annotations on their in-game maps and entries in their in-game journals, etc...
As for any other limitations of the technology, I don't see them as being that difficult to overcome.
Coulple things
Voice chat isn't necessary but is infinitely more efficient than typing. Anything that requires solid group organization greatly benefits from being able to vocalize communication.
And when you get into something that is so intense as to REQUIRE voice chat, you're probably not worried about immersion so much as not getting wiped or whatever.
DDO has voice chat and it works very well. The P&P people will probably note that rolling dice, chatting with your friends can coexist with being immersed in the game and therefore so can voice chat.
Voice chat probably works better in sci-fi games than fantasy ones, as not talking in an English accent won't necessarily break character. Especially in games like EVE where you don't even have a character.
Voice filters are on the horizon. But right now voice chat still hasn't caught on as a standardized way of communicating in-game, and that has to happen first. Right now most players and developers are too content relying on Ventrilo or TS to even bother.
I occasionally play L2 and don't even bother unless i'm logged in to my guild's vent server. I am a huge advocate of immersion but the efficiency of voice chat cannot be beat. And besides you really get to know people better when you speak to them rather than type.