Finishing moves that don't finish?

Rokkan · February 2007

In a few of the vids ive seen, a monster lets out some grusome move on a player (like stabbing him through the gut all the way to the ground, or bitting him on the head and swinging him around) which id assume to be some kind of finishing move. But i watch these battle sequence down to the last frame and can see the hero getting back up after such a blow to fight on.

I hope this unrealisticness, for lack of a better word, isn't included in the release of the game. Does this sort of thing bother any of you? anyone know the status of this element of the game and whether its something else or not?

pureazure · February 2007

Originally posted by Rokkan

In a few of the vids ive seen, a monster lets out some grusome move on a player (like stabbing him through the gut all the way to the ground, or bitting him on the head and swinging him around) which id assume to be some kind of finishing move. But i watch these battle sequence down to the last frame and can see the hero getting back up after such a blow to fight on.
I hope this unrealisticness, for lack of a better word, isn't included in the release of the game. Does this sort of thing bother any of you? anyone know the status of this element of the game and whether its something else or not?

Unrealistc? Look at the combat in every other MMO.

Where does it say they are finishing moves? You could always be assuming the wrong thing.

guignol69 · February 2007

Those moves are unrealistic compared to what... reality ?

I don't think in reality u can ever meet the son of a god, or fight against a chimerae or a minotaurus... Thus like already said other MMOs aren't realistic at all for the most, are they ?

Furthermore i can say i love the combos in PvP whom are inspired by the greco-roman struggle and arena fights IMO. They tried to be as realistic as possible in those fights as you 've could seen on trailers. I just want to congratulate for this point and i will enjoy those fights for sure.

PvE is not realistic, and then... there's no matter for me, sorry. It's a fantasy MMO based on historical BG (roman) and mythology, not a realistic one. Just read Ulysse's odyssee or the Homere's Ilyade and tell me what is realistic in ?

kopema · February 2007

Originally posted by Rokkan

In a few of the vids ive seen, a monster lets out some grusome move on a player (like stabbing him through the gut all the way to the ground, or bitting him on the head and swinging him around) which id assume to be some kind of finishing move. But i watch these battle sequence down to the last frame and can see the hero getting back up after such a blow to fight on.
I hope this unrealisticness, for lack of a better word, isn't included in the release of the game. Does this sort of thing bother any of you? anyone know the status of this element of the game and whether its something else or not?

Yeah, it's downright idiotic looking. The developers seem completely oblivious to it though.

I actually thought the standard CRPG combat animations couldn't get any worse: two characters stand three feet apart and hit each other dozens of times with swords with little or no reaction, like they're just taking turns.

But G&H actually seems to be lowering the bar for sillyness: showing somebody get skewered through the heart and spine; tossed around like a rag doll, his lifeless body impaled to the ground; then get back up, pause to pick up sword and shield as his opponent stands idly by; then the fight rejoins where it left off as if nothing had happened.

I suppose that might be "fixed" at some point, but the most that would mean is that it's moved to the end of the fight rather than integrated into the combat system. I would love to see a system that included actual "finishing moves." With combat based on TIMING rather than TIMERS; where you gauge when you've worn down your opponent's guard enough to "make your move" and go for the kill. Too late, and he might strike first; too early and you will overextend yourself and lose your advantage.

But that's not going to happen. G&H uses the standard button-flashing minigame that WoW implemented to let six-year-olds join in the fun. The "powerup" and "special attack" buttons you press will be based on their independant refresh rates; not related to the animations you see on your screen.

blackcat35 · February 2007

Vanguard talked about in some marketing ploy opening, middile, and fnishing moves, but I thought it was all hype and little substance...

I'm hoping they can polish the game to make the fight sequences you see in game and the control you have over your character/squads integrated, if this isn't the case then I'm seriously worried about the longevity of this game or how fun it will actually be...

I did notice that fight scene and them getting up when it looked like they should of died, and although I let it passed I do remember it, and it does bug me......

Tiran_Kenja · February 2007

Originally posted by blackcat35
Vanguard talked about in some marketing ploy opening, middile, and fnishing moves, but I thought it was all hype and little substance..

Vanguard does have something called finishing moves and chained actions. But at least in beta my Bards finishing move didn't exactly finish all that much... Unless it would being the HP of the mob to zero of course.

There is a serious issue with the 'finishing move' idea because it would require it to be only used to finish the fight. If it ALWAYS finishes the fight it would destroy everything resembling balance since you would just need to get to a point where you can execute it. The point where a finishing move would actually finish a fight is very hard to determine in RPGs since fights are almost always based on getting an HP bar to zero. And there is a lot of factors that play into how much damage you are doing. And if the move simply does an amount of damage when it then the right moment? And if it just always kills off the opponent when should it be fired?

But yeah. The GnH combat animations look very nice. But they seem to open up a can of worms in this respect. And I have myself tried to bring it up on the official forum (I think... Or I was going to...). But for now GnH is ultimately just a lot of pretty graphics. Judgement on how the systems work will have to be made once we get to try it out.

mrverse · February 2007

finishing moves are just sexy.. like in killer instinct.. a finishing move consisted of a 100 hit combo or a swift uppercut with your head soon flying off.. but that also ended the game for that player on the recieving end.. but it would be fun to let out nasty finishing moves on a player to give that extra "oomph what now!?" and then be on the recieiving end of it and stumble saying "im alright im alright... walk it off" and still be able to play... awsome.. im sure there would be many times i get my head bitten by something in that game and still feel awsome gettin back up and givin my godly kick to the groin

Splatzor · February 2007

Take it for what it is worth , but in WoW I would get attacked by something throwing a spear and I would have it sticking through me, every time it was thrown.

I Know you are not talking about WoW , but that seems unrealistic aswell.

eshi · February 2007

i'll throw in a point about how finishing moves look awsome. I can see how it would be weird to see a person stabbed through the gut and then get back up and fight, but if you think about the context of the game it makes sense, i mean you are blessed with the power of the gods, and i'm sure there'll be an explanation or seomthing at release. Also i think i read somewhere that someone said the developers are oblivious to this fact, but umm... i'm pretty sure they realize what they're doing...they are the ones who are making the game, and i believe that they put in those death moves because they look cool, and frankly they do look kick *ss.

LordKyellan · February 2007

Maybe it's a personal preference thing, but I was thinking that however unrealistic, at least the combat in G&H appears to have some flair to it. Rather than just stand 3 feet apart and swing blades, the avatars actually interact with each other. Even if it's silly looking, I'd rather watch that fight than one from EQ, WoW or DAoC any day.

At least it's a step in the right direction. They could have gone with regular old swing/swing combat.

Drmccoy · February 2007

Excerpt from an interview with the lead designer which answers some of these questions

-----------------------------

OnlineWelten: The combat system appears very dynamic and interactive with great animations. Can you tell us more about the concept of the combat system and the special attacks?

Stieg Hedlund: Essentially, we wanted to create a combat system that felt more interactive - we were really looking at models such as the Soul Caliber games in terms of the feeling of involvement and payoff, trying to move beyond the typical MMO feeling of waving a weapon vaguely in the direction of your opponent. At the same time we were aware of how system using locked combat had failed because although they had better looking interaction, the feeling of restriction they tend to create was universally disliked. Therefore we wanted to take the best of both worlds, and I think we've achieved that to a very large extent.

OnlineWelten: Squad combat is a core component in Gods & Heroes. How does the combat with the minions work?

Stieg Hedlund: At the base level, we wanted it to be very easy for players to approach, so it is: place a minion in your squad and battle foes as usual; help you in ways appropriate to their type and specialty (for instance, healer-specialized spellcasters will heal you, so you won't be as easily defeated).

As you progress through the game there will be tactical situations that you'll need to both plan for in advance and react to as they are unfolding, and we present, through a unique UI, some straightforward commands a player will find quite useful.

OnlineWelten: How many minions can a player have? How can the players find new squad members?

Stieg Hedlund: Squads are limited to four minions in the public world (just so groups with squads don't vacuum up all the content leaving nothing for anyone else). We plan on having instanced areas that allow as many as eight-minion squads. In your camp you can have even more minons, allowing you to collect a great many of them and then select the ones that best suit your player character build, playstyle, the challenges presented, and so on.

New squad members can be gained in a couple of different ways: the easiest of these is to find them in the world and hire them on the spot; explore thoroughly to discover these guys. Minions can also be given as rewards for doing quests. Finally, minions that are quite rare can be hired using items that rarely drop in instanced gameplay.

Full interview here mmog.onlinewelten.com/interviews,id1663,5,exklusives_interview_stieg_hedlund.html

pureazure · February 2007

I just watched the video...

HE DOESN'T GET UP, HE TURNS TO THE SIDE.

Hives · February 2007

Well combat in other games is pretty simple, jump,spin ,swing and a flip so I'll take this style over the others..

deadsun7 · March 2007

People who complain about unrealisticness are a bunch of morons. Frankly there was only one game that i've ever played that was considered realistic and that was ghost recon. Most of us know that realisticness !!!SUCKS!!! as in ghost recon where if you got shot in the head you went down then you had to start over. NOBODY likes realistic games because with a realistic game comes difficulty and most of the general public does not like playing a game where u pretty much die constantly and have to start over, it is to difficult to play. ghost recon was one of the worst selling games EVER. why?? because it was far to difficult and fustrating to play for most people. Makeing games such as gods and heroes is to MAKE MONEY not to make a game thats cool. after all coolness does not pay for bills and food. Quit complaining and appericate the games your being allowed to play!

[Deleted User] · March 2007

The user and all related content has been deleted.

xauss · March 2007

finishing moves / fatalities are indeed finishing moves as explained here

blackcat35 · March 2007

From what I listened to it did sound like it is a random bonus when you'll see the move, so like 5% of the time I'll see a finishing "move" that looks kewl...Like I don't have control over when I see it....

That doesn't sound like a finishing move so much as a nice special affect when a monster dies.....

xauss · March 2007

OP

In a few of the vids ive seen, a monster lets out some grusome move on a player (like stabbing him through the gut all the way to the ground, or bitting him on the head and swinging him around) which id assume to be some kind of finishing move. But i watch these battle sequence down to the last frame and can see the hero getting back up after such a blow to fight on.

maybe some of the moves referred to are some of the feats, and are not intended as finishing moves, just do high damage. some probably were the finishing moves...

as i understand it, when an attack is sufficient to kill a player (or mob) the system plays the finishing move automatically (not initiated by the player) but i could be wrong...

darc21 · March 2007

I think part of the brutal like combat moves can be explained by the fact that YOUR CHARACTERS ARE BLESSED BY THE GODS or even semi/demi gods themselves. Therefore they are able to take such wounds.

kashaun · March 2007

Most of the moves you see in the videos are specialty moves, not finishing moves. As they explained it on their forums, finishing moves happen if the specialty move ends up killing your opponent, where then a finishing move animation takes place. Or at least that's how I understood it, could be wrong.

Bzrk · March 2007

Originally posted by BadChef

Most of the moves you see in the videos are specialty moves, not finishing moves. As they explained it on their forums, finishing moves happen if the specialty move ends up killing your opponent, where then a finishing move animation takes place. Or at least that's how I understood it, could be wrong.

That's what I thought to read to. But I'm not certain either.

Should be a lot of fun though, if a percentage of your special moves evolves into or triggers some kind of finishing move.

Cincinnatus · March 2007

Some of the speciality moves seem on the surface similar to the finishers, but the finishers will only trigger when the mob's health reaches the low threshold needed. That's the way I read the dev response on it.

Manaconda · March 2007

Originally posted by Rokkan

In a few of the vids ive seen, a monster lets out some grusome move on a player (like stabbing him through the gut all the way to the ground, or bitting him on the head and swinging him around) which id assume to be some kind of finishing move. But i watch these battle sequence down to the last frame and can see the hero getting back up after such a blow to fight on.
I hope this unrealisticness, for lack of a better word, isn't included in the release of the game. Does this sort of thing bother any of you? anyone know the status of this element of the game and whether its something else or not?

I think the moves are totally awesome. I think the moves in G&H and the game is more geared toward adults. You might want to sit this one out.

jahar · March 2007

if yo uwant a game with timing, try FFXI. skillchains and magic bursts require casting and using skills a certain amount of time after another player does, and only certain skills chain.. its a pretty cool system.

oh and i agree some of those moves look like they would hurt, but you play a demigod. they can take it, im sure. and either way, its waay better then the same slashing motion over and over

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