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Why I think that Vanguard want's people to dislike the game.
Phantazam
Member Posts: 70
I belive that Vanguard is doing one thing that many gamer's ask for..Being innovative. That probably might stike alot of people as off the mark, but i think that the Oxymoron (contrasting fact's) of the situation, is that by Sigil adhering to a singular vision, that being that people HAVE to be forced to group, that level's NEED to be slow, ect, ect; that they ostrasize a great deal of people who want a game that is based more on instant gratification, as opposed to long term health & gain.
In essence, i feel they are doing something very bold & different, by not catering to the wishes of the popular community, and instead creating a game that is based on fundamental fact's as to what's really able to entertains players.
It's been said many times that the MMO genere is getting stagnant..it would be hard to belive i think, that basic fact's would not be recognized by people who know how to read a situation, and understand it's rules and principles.
Comments
TBH they've done nothing innovative in there game. It merely takes all that is good in current MMO's and combine's them. Some of the bad was brought in there too depending on your opinion.
Im not bashing the game, i actually enjoy playing it quite a bit. They have succomed to the instagratifcation crowd in the recent by lowering the amount of XP required to get to 10.
Don't get me wrong, I like Vanguard and will buy it at release, but innovation is not its strong side. Slow leveling, group-based gameplay and other qualities you mention are mostly based on EQLive's gameplay. While some aspects, such as diplomacy, are indeed innovative, the core gameplay system of the game is a mix of EQLive and World of Warcraft.
Currently playing:
* City of Heroes: Deggial, Assault Rifle/Devices Blaster. Server: Defiant.
* City of Villains: Snakeroot, Plant/Thorns Dominator. Server: Defiant.
Honestly, I don't see why Sigil/SoE would do anything that doesnt cater to the popular community (on purpose).
I've seen very few complaints that say people think VSoH is a BAD game BECAUSE of slow leveling or how much grouping is required... those of us who don't like games because you're forced to group for everything, play it, give it our review, and move on. The bashing is coming from people having different problems with bugs, performance, etc... relating to an unfinished game.
I just don't really see the innovation.
Retired from WoW
Rebellion - 60 Warlock || Kalaa - 60 Warrior
Littlerebel - 60 Hunter || Albie - 60 Shaman
Played: Erm, a lot more.
Rules and principles? How about fuzzy business logic?
Listen, you want to hear about "adhering to a singular vision"? Sigil launched their game months before it was ready because Sony wouldn't give them anymore money. They scrapped promised features and content because they didn't have time to actually create them. They hyped a product and didn't even come close to delivering.
That aside, allow me to let you on a secret from the business world... The customer is always right. Really, it's true. As a business, you do not actively TRY to alienate potential customers. Also, who the hell do you think you are to presume to know what REALLY entertains players!? You are in no position to determine what is or isn't "entertaining" to anyone but yourself; and frankly, Vanguard doesn't really make the cut. You cannot have a "fundamental fact" about highly subjective, highly individual opinions regarding entertainment. Only equally subjective assessments of consensus opinion.
How do you kill that which has no life?
Retired from WoW
Rebellion - 60 Warlock || Kalaa - 60 Warrior
Littlerebel - 60 Hunter || Albie - 60 Shaman
Played: Erm, a lot more.
I like the last two post's (Edit: Xrebel, Manveru), not sure that anyone above them actually even read mine, lol.
To answer the question, I belive that sigil know's exactally what work's and what does not, because there is an ENTIRE field of science known as Pyschology, and also Social Pyschology. I specifially said, I think, that they were attempting to exlude a type of person, while catering too another type.
What I was attempting to say, between the line's, is that they (in my opionion, fair enough) have created a game that is not at all concerned with what group's of people (such as us, who disagree on the point) think an MMO should be like in order to be "good", but instead created a game that did not cater to ever person..to be blunt, I think that people who know a good thing when they see it, will take to this game, while people with short attention span's, little social skill's, and selfish personallity disorders will inherently be turned off by the game.
j/k lol
jokes aside, real innovation would of been a level-less mmorpg. Real innovation would of been allowing your player base to change the political landscape. Innovation would of been the coop instance (a 2-man instance or out door dungeon based hugely on coordination, cooperation and communication).
Vanguard has progressive features. It's a stretch to call it an innovating game. Will be good though eventually.
--D^t
p.s it's not usually good to convince someone of an agruement by saying they don't social skills lol, word of warning lol
Currently Playing: GW2
Retired: Shadowbane, DAoC, WoW, FFXI, Eve Online, SWToR
The Aphelion MMO Blog - GW2 Initial Impressions
Honeslty, I really wish people would read and compare the different points of a post, rather than take one particular bit out, and base a reply off of it.
Edit: "Of a post"
The people that will ultimately be turned off to Vanguard are the people who have evolved and moved on as gamers since the days of the original EverQuest, and who now expect more from an MMO than just a fresh coat of polygons and textures.
However, if someone still pines for the early (i.e., pre-Planes of Power) days of EQ, they'll probably like Vanguard, since that's ultimately what the game feels like, at least IMO.
I did get your original post, Sigil is being innovative by conering a niche market of gamers (namely the power leveling "hardcore" crowd) and made a game for them, not for the "whinny" socially inept (i'm assuming you mean the 2nd generation of mmo'ers, the WoW crowd).
My point is there is already an american game on the market that forces you to HAVE to party at a very low level and takes uwards of 5-6 months to get to endgame, it's FFXI. You have to start leveling in a group at 15all the way to 75. As the previous poster noted so did EQ.
Did they corner a niche market, yes. Can I commend them on going after that crowd instead of the huge market that is the 2nd gen crowd yes. But is their game innovative enough to be called innovating... no. Take care man.
--D^t
Currently Playing: GW2
Retired: Shadowbane, DAoC, WoW, FFXI, Eve Online, SWToR
The Aphelion MMO Blog - GW2 Initial Impressions
No company in their right mind would do this, it's just not profitable. Every company in their right mind wants to be like Blizzard (whether you hate or love blizzard you gotta admit this), because Blizzard makes money (as much as we love MMO's, money really is the point for developers)
that being said, VSoH may look like a niche game now, because it's rushed... I say given another year of non-rushed development, we may have seen a game that could crash into the MMO world with polished gameplay and truly innovative features. (i.e. diplomacy with a real point to it, and crafting that doesnt involve standing clicking the same buttons for 4 hours... at least in WoW I could go AFK and eat while crafting
Maybe VSoH will become all this and more given time and more patches after release... maybe not... but as of right now I just can't agree that they are innovative, nor that they specifically created the game to alienate anyone
Retired from WoW
Rebellion - 60 Warlock || Kalaa - 60 Warrior
Littlerebel - 60 Hunter || Albie - 60 Shaman
Played: Erm, a lot more.
Vanguard seeks to be the best PvE game out there, but FFXI is 100x better than Vanguard.
All Vanguard really did was isolate an already minimal fanbase, and then execute less effectively than a game which has been out for 5 years.
FFXI: group-oriented, hardcore leveling, difficulty for new players, playable PERFECTLY on a 56k connection, low graphical demands but still pretty, capped FPS, many "mini-games" to take your mind off the grind, much better balance, self-bred mounts, excellent mapping system, practically bug-free
Vanguard: group oriented, hardcore leveling, boring for new players, playable on broadband, absurd graphical demands, horrible FPS, no "mini-games", imbalanced as all hell, purchasable mounts, the worst mapping, ever, buggy
Yes, they targeted that niche market, but they're outclassed at the moment, and in more ways then one.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
LoL, if Jack Emmert works for them, they do.
All of the promised innovations were thrown out the door the moment SOE signed onto the product. This is all about a quick buck for Sony. They didn't have to pay the development costs for this game they just had to pay the cost to get it finished and they see the chance for a quick turn around on their investment. The bean counters calculated how much money they could afford to invest and how much the anticipated box sales would be to turn a profit. Finished or not the bean counters win and the game will come out without any of the promised innovation (Diplomacy doesn't count as it is just Magic the Gathering put into a different context) but SOE will make a buck off of the vanbois and we will never see the game that Brad envisioned 5 years ago.
I am not an SOE hater but I am still shocked at how they are pushing this game out after their long history of such mistakes. I can only surmise that they have concluded that Brad and company are not capable of delivering the promised game within a reasonable budget and time frame and therefore why wait. Get it out and get your money back.
But i will tell you that another game has come out and said it's a niche market based game and never (and actually can't fesibly) be larger then a 100k user game max, Eve.
Niche games are out there, and not everyone wants to be like WoW just most
--D^t
Currently Playing: GW2
Retired: Shadowbane, DAoC, WoW, FFXI, Eve Online, SWToR
The Aphelion MMO Blog - GW2 Initial Impressions
Main point however, is that I do not think Vanguard is doing anything that is "innovative." They made some small changes to the format, added a couple different routes to level. Nothing crazy. Almost every MMO that comes out always makes something new. Innovative to me is a drastic change in the mold.
Thanks!
Zee Gobbles?
Thanks all, for the responses, This whole topic turned out pretty well, with the argument going both way's pro & against, and each side having thier own opinion on the subject, but with allowances in both directions also, when applicable.
That's all I wanted from this personally, to say what I felt about the sitation & hear what you guys thought, and i don't seem to be off-base when i say, as was said above, that V:SH was built for a different crowd of players. Im glad because that makes me like the game all the much more. again, appreciate the responses.