The game doesn't start at the time that frodo left with the ring. well it actually depends on what race you roll. elves and dwarfs are long living creatures, and it may be that those two races start way before the war of the ring. mabey the dwarf starts in a time that the dwarfs where going to the blue mountains to kill that named dragon for the treasure. ?? mabey
Let's stay focused people. 1. The time frame they choose to set the game in was a HORRIBLE pick. They have to limit content and the extent of accomplishment that can be done in game so that it doesnt interfere with the periods history. Turbine should have been smarter they should have taking the game pre-LOTR era. as far back as the Simarillion timeframe when you had so much more going in the world. This was the time of high adventure. Not at the end of an era. Or they should have taken it post-LOTR era. Where they would have free reigns once again to create new history. something like 30 years after the LOTR incidents would have been good. You could have all set out for fresh new adventures. 2. The fact that they actually took the time to make classes from the warrior and thief tree is down right silly. and the lore master ... LOL ok i wont even go there. Since you cant really do PVP in LOTRO it was perfect for a skill tree implimentation. This game could have so benefitted from a Skill Tree progression. This is one of the few games that because the story line hinders the use of standard PVP practice. We could have been given freedom to mix and match skills as we see fit. You could still choose to follow a specific skill tree to earn a profession or become any mix of talents. I feel Turbine missed the ball on this one Big Time.
these 2 reasons alone make it ok at best. A WOW killer not even close. At best they might hit Eq2 numbers in terms of subs. I dont see them hitting the 1 million mark not time soon if at all. Which is kinda sad for such a large IP. sigh.
I agree - they should have made it Silmarillion era - it would have been great. Seeing it is set in the "petty disputes with captain Sauron" age cooled me off real quick - it is a clear sign they are capitalizing on the franchise due to the movie trilogy success, no different than tons of cheap merchandise did. It does not show me that this is made for Tolkien fans, but rather people who think that Legolas is the coolest char ever.
However, I'm tired of anything vs. WoW mentions....
No PVP (Which if you ask me, PvP is REALISTIC, rather than "fun")=Game dies.
Using the LOTR IP in such a pansyassed way=Game dies.
Hardcore LOTR fans will play this. Thats about it. Enjoy your empty zones, folks. MMORPG gaming has once again proven that human beings can fuck up anything.
You CAN play as evil races. There is a special system set up for this. And as far as people's current complaints or conceptions about the game, I have a few problems with you all:
1. If you're telling the truth (which you're not), you're blatantly violating the NDA.
2. You have no proof to back up any of your claims.
3. You contradict current available knowledge about the game from devs and beta journals.
4. Most of you have NO IDEA what you're talking about.
What about the Nazgul and Witch King? They werent seen much but they were around.
No. The Witch King of Angmar hadn't been around for over a thousand years by the time The Lord of the Rings played out. This game is called "Shadows of Angmar", but lorewise there were simply no such thing, no coherent forces of evil, remote controlled by Sauron, to oppose in Eriador.
As for a game that looks and sounds like your below average generic MMO, which has made several cuts in creativity due to miniscule conflicts with the lore, and won't fill in any of the"white blanks" left on the map by Tolkien (basically the only human dwelling at launch will be Breeland, by the looks of it), it still managed to make a MASSIVE break from the lore the very theme of the game!
Does not bode well.
I've been following this game for several years, even though I'm not an avid MMORPG player. However, I knew right from the start, while Turbine still called it MEO, the game would end up a mediocre product.
Why? Alright, this is personal (and MMORPG'ers generally don't understand it), but if I'm to be honest, it has no Permadeath!
The original Sierra concept featured it, but as it was removed and not reintroduced by Turbine, it was the first sign the latter guys were only after the cheap money. And it has continually went downhill from there.
Yes, everyone loves permadeath! It worked great in SWG! Oh, wait, it angered pretty much EVERY person who had to endure it. As a pre-Pub 9 Jedi, I had to go through the 3-strikes and you're out policy. And it's complete and utter GARBAGE! No one wants to play a game where you have to start over constantly. Death is a part of playing any RPG, whether it is an MMO or a single-player. In single-player games, there is saving. In MMOs there are varying degrees of death penalties. Death in these games is far too common to have perma-death. There would then be too much risk for the reward given, just making the game absolutely void of FUN. And THAT is the real purpose of these games... To enjoy yourself...
And you probably shouldn't make accusations and assumptions about the content and layout of the game until you get a chance to play it. A lot of people are thinking things aren't in the game, just because there are no screenshots of them.
Permadeath: I don't care what you think. I've heard it all before, and we are not supposed to turn this discussion into a PD debate. I mentioned it only because it was then I felt MEO was beginning to go downhill. That said, arguments against it are always based on a preconcieved notion that MMO's should be linear and laddered, use respawnable mobs and be directed towards a goal, like a level cap (which in itself is meaningless). That's where the tedium of "starting over and having to go through it all again" comes from, and sure, it's perfectly understandable. Basically, it all boils down to an inability to think outside the box, supposedly an effect of having played too many MMORPG's.
Content based assumptions: Sure I can make plausible accusations based on that. Or what do you think "the shadows of Angmar" is supposed to mean? To me it sounds like a game plot where someone/some force is striving for resurrecting a realm that has been gone for a thousand years and no one remembers anymore (not to mention the obvious question why any trolls or orc king in Eriador would want it back, had it been part of their head space in the first place). In other words, a major breaking of lore. And a bad script.
"Shadows of Angmar" refers to the Witch King of Angmar or the Lead Nazgul (Ring Wraith) The one that stabs Frodo at weathertop in Fellowship of the ring. So all Shadows of Angmar means is The Witch King and his forces are beging to build and will someday join with Mordor. So it is really not breaking with lore at all it is just telling the story from another point of veiw.
The thing is Silmarillion is a book that is ideal for lore - short but filled with legends. It would allow great freedom of adventures, and the worild itself there is much more grand. Not to mention elven armies (vs. their lethargy in LotR), balrogs, valar and maiar strolling the land and young humanity on the rise. Much more potential than this chosen setting IMO.
"Shadows of Angmar" refers to the Witch King of Angmar or the Lead Nazgul (Ring Wraith) The one that stabs Frodo at weathertop in Fellowship of the ring. So all Shadows of Angmar means is The Witch King and his forces are beging to build and will someday join with Mordor. So it is really not breaking with lore at all it is just telling the story from another point of veiw.
I know who the Lead Nazgûl is, thankyou.
"His forces"? The Lead Nazgûl had no forces in Eriador. He (or it) moved through the land over a couple of weeks chasing the ring. There are orcs in Gundabad and at various points in the Misty Mountains, probably the Grey Mountains too and elsewhere, trolls in Trollshaws etc, though nothing related to Mordor, at least not directly. The Nine obviously had neither the time nor the intent of calling those to arms (which of course does not mean they cannot be a menace in their own right).
I don't exactly know what the game implies in this regard of course, since I haven't played it, but any notion that something was stirring to rebuild the antiquated Realm of Angmar must be considered utter nonsense.
The thing is Silmarillion is a book that is ideal for lore - short but filled with legends. It would allow great freedom of adventures, and the worild itself there is much more grand. Not to mention elven armies (vs. their lethargy in LotR), balrogs, valar and maiar strolling the land and young humanity on the rise. Much more potential than this chosen setting IMO.
I can agree with this in many respects, but it is still a very different setting from the one most people are accustomed to. As far as at least Beleriand is concerned, people will not even recognise basic geography. Besides, what do we really know about the first age in terms of material culture, how armies fought and were equipped, people lived, that kind of thing? After all, The Silmarillion has a distinct "mythical" feel to it that might prove difficult to translate into tangible form.
Potential for a great game world, none the less, as long as it's clearly presented as first age/Silmarillion Tolkien, I guess. Could probably become a niche product, though.
My own suggestion for a perfect setting would rather be middle to late third age, up till about the time when Bilbo went on his journey. There is a lot going on in this period without you having to reinvent most of the map and the political and social outline. Instead, it is ideal for brooding on the material that is already in place.
"Shadows of Angmar" refers to the Witch King of Angmar or the Lead Nazgul (Ring Wraith) The one that stabs Frodo at weathertop in Fellowship of the ring. So all Shadows of Angmar means is The Witch King and his forces are beging to build and will someday join with Mordor. So it is really not breaking with lore at all it is just telling the story from another point of veiw.
I know who the Lead Nazgûl is, thankyou.
"His forces"? The Lead Nazgûl had no forces in Eriador. He (or it) moved through the land over a couple of weeks chasing the ring. There are orcs in Gundabad and at various points in the Misty Mountains, probably the Grey Mountains too and elsewhere, trolls in Trollshaws etc, though nothing related to Mordor, at least not directly. The Nine obviously had neither the time nor the intent of calling those to arms (which of course does not mean they cannot be a menace in their own right).
I don't exactly know what the game implies in this regard of course, since I haven't played it, but any notion that something was stirring to rebuild the antiquated Realm of Angmar must be considered utter nonsense. Well I am sorry I was only trying to help out with the little bit of info I know about LOTR. I do have to say tho I know I dont post in these forums that much but I have read them for a while and all I can say is if you (and by you many people) feel that LOTRO is not going to be good or you have major problems with it. DONT SPEND YOUR MONEY ON IT! and try to find something better to do then bitch about a game that is not even out yet, So how do you know if it will be good or not anyways?
MacLeaod, I wasn't trying to insult anyone or try looking like "oh, how proud I am to be a Tolkien moron so I can hit everyone on the fingers" type of jerk. If it came out like that I apologize.
Well, you're right of course I should just stay away from games I dislike, but the hard part is finding any game worth the effort. I had some hopes for LOTRO once upon a time, I merely happen to think the subject matter deserved thoughtful treatment that was radically different from standard MMORPG practice. I believe I am entitled to that opinion.
You are right, you are entitled to that opinion I just dont understand how poeple can bash a game they have never played before. It has always confused me ( I am not pointing fingers at anyone here). Video games are ment to be fun and some where along the way people have lost site of that. Take a game for what it is A GAME sure there my be things that dont match up perfactly to a book that it is based on but that is just like film it is called makeing the story flow better visulay (sorry I suck at spelling).
Would I like a game or a film 100% true to LOTR? Yes, But can you imagne how hard that game would be? How long it would take to get from place to place? The devs have to find a way to make it so the Hardcore fans can play and visit the places they have come to know and love and at the same time they have to make a game that some one who for what ever reason has never herd of Lord of the Rings can pick up and play it and enjoy the game. Now that can not be an easy feat, even more so with something so loved all over the world like LOTR.
The other part that I am sure is difficult is how to tell the story with out really effecting how the story plays out. Now I do know much about it, but from what I hear you will meet the characters as the progress through the story. And you will see the story unfold from a diffrent point of veiw, your own. Now I do not know about you but I think this is an intresting way to tell the story. Altho I could be totatly wrong about this . The thing that I think that they did do right and I enjoy is the fact that you have no direct effect on how the story of LOTR goes. Fordo and his pals are on their quest you will be on yours, ocasonly bumping into them and helping out ( a very cryptic chat over at Stractics hints to eventuly fighting at battles like Helms Deep.)
I guess what I am trying to say in this long winded rant is Don't Knock it untill ya try it. People have goten so anal about video games it is not even funny. Sure there are lots of games out that are complete crap but how do we know they are crap untill we play them? I am sure someone likes a game that you think is crap or vice versa. LOL ok I think I am done. I hope I did not piss anyone off
I agree with the original poster on the time-setting and made same a similar point on their official forums back when they first announced this. I've read the books dozens of times and seen the movies (both versions) dozens of times. I've 'lived' the story. I wouldn't feel a part of the story playing this as an mmo since the outcome is pre-determined and nothing I do will change it.
They would have given this game so much more scope if they'd set it after the events of the Return of the King. Sure a few years later all the elves disappear but they simply don't vanish overnight. The recent films are misleading on that count. Eg. from memory Galadriel leads the elves of Lothlorien on a campaign to cleanse the Murkwood and tear down the Witch-King's fortress before she sails off.
They could have set the game after the books and still allowed player elves - but Rivendell and Lothlorien would have been sparsely populated (not as they appear in the books) and the player elves would have been like Legolas, lone wanderers who hung around for quite some time travelling the world with Gimli before they sailed into the West.
The prospect of living in and shaping Middle Earth post Frodo seems much more exciting to me.
LotRO will be extremely successful. It has mainstream appeal, and is fun to play, with good graphics and a storyline quest system. Like any game, it will not appeal to everyone, but it will be very successful - far more successful than I would have thought a year ago.
Saying LotRO is OK at best is like saying WoW is OK at best. It may not be the game for you, but you have to be crazy not to see the widespread appeal of the game.
Comments
However, I'm tired of anything vs. WoW mentions....
Cant play as evil races=Game dies.
No PVP (Which if you ask me, PvP is REALISTIC, rather than "fun")=Game dies.
Using the LOTR IP in such a pansyassed way=Game dies.
Hardcore LOTR fans will play this. Thats about it. Enjoy your empty zones, folks. MMORPG gaming has once again proven that human beings can fuck up anything.
You CAN play as evil races. There is a special system set up for this. And as far as people's current complaints or conceptions about the game, I have a few problems with you all:
1. If you're telling the truth (which you're not), you're blatantly violating the NDA.
2. You have no proof to back up any of your claims.
3. You contradict current available knowledge about the game from devs and beta journals.
4. Most of you have NO IDEA what you're talking about.
As for a game that looks and sounds like your below average generic MMO, which has made several cuts in creativity due to miniscule conflicts with the lore, and won't fill in any of the"white blanks" left on the map by Tolkien (basically the only human dwelling at launch will be Breeland, by the looks of it), it still managed to make a MASSIVE break from the lore the very theme of the game!
Does not bode well.
I've been following this game for several years, even though I'm not an avid MMORPG player. However, I knew right from the start, while Turbine still called it MEO, the game would end up a mediocre product.
Why? Alright, this is personal (and MMORPG'ers generally don't understand it), but if I'm to be honest, it has no Permadeath!
The original Sierra concept featured it, but as it was removed and not reintroduced by Turbine, it was the first sign the latter guys were only after the cheap money. And it has continually went downhill from there.
Yes, everyone loves permadeath! It worked great in SWG! Oh, wait, it angered pretty much EVERY person who had to endure it. As a pre-Pub 9 Jedi, I had to go through the 3-strikes and you're out policy. And it's complete and utter GARBAGE! No one wants to play a game where you have to start over constantly. Death is a part of playing any RPG, whether it is an MMO or a single-player. In single-player games, there is saving. In MMOs there are varying degrees of death penalties. Death in these games is far too common to have perma-death. There would then be too much risk for the reward given, just making the game absolutely void of FUN. And THAT is the real purpose of these games... To enjoy yourself...
And you probably shouldn't make accusations and assumptions about the content and layout of the game until you get a chance to play it. A lot of people are thinking things aren't in the game, just because there are no screenshots of them.
Permadeath: I don't care what you think. I've heard it all before, and we are not supposed to turn this discussion into a PD debate. I mentioned it only because it was then I felt MEO was beginning to go downhill. That said, arguments against it are always based on a preconcieved notion that MMO's should be linear and laddered, use respawnable mobs and be directed towards a goal, like a level cap (which in itself is meaningless). That's where the tedium of "starting over and having to go through it all again" comes from, and sure, it's perfectly understandable. Basically, it all boils down to an inability to think outside the box, supposedly an effect of having played too many MMORPG's.
Content based assumptions: Sure I can make plausible accusations based on that. Or what do you think "the shadows of Angmar" is supposed to mean? To me it sounds like a game plot where someone/some force is striving for resurrecting a realm that has been gone for a thousand years and no one remembers anymore (not to mention the obvious question why any trolls or orc king in Eriador would want it back, had it been part of their head space in the first place). In other words, a major breaking of lore. And a bad script.
"His forces"? The Lead Nazgûl had no forces in Eriador. He (or it) moved through the land over a couple of weeks chasing the ring. There are orcs in Gundabad and at various points in the Misty Mountains, probably the Grey Mountains too and elsewhere, trolls in Trollshaws etc, though nothing related to Mordor, at least not directly. The Nine obviously had neither the time nor the intent of calling those to arms (which of course does not mean they cannot be a menace in their own right).
I don't exactly know what the game implies in this regard of course, since I haven't played it, but any notion that something was stirring to rebuild the antiquated Realm of Angmar must be considered utter nonsense.
Potential for a great game world, none the less, as long as it's clearly presented as first age/Silmarillion Tolkien, I guess. Could probably become a niche product, though.
My own suggestion for a perfect setting would rather be middle to late third age, up till about the time when Bilbo went on his journey. There is a lot going on in this period without you having to reinvent most of the map and the political and social outline. Instead, it is ideal for brooding on the material that is already in place.
"His forces"? The Lead Nazgûl had no forces in Eriador. He (or it) moved through the land over a couple of weeks chasing the ring. There are orcs in Gundabad and at various points in the Misty Mountains, probably the Grey Mountains too and elsewhere, trolls in Trollshaws etc, though nothing related to Mordor, at least not directly. The Nine obviously had neither the time nor the intent of calling those to arms (which of course does not mean they cannot be a menace in their own right).
I don't exactly know what the game implies in this regard of course, since I haven't played it, but any notion that something was stirring to rebuild the antiquated Realm of Angmar must be considered utter nonsense. Well I am sorry I was only trying to help out with the little bit of info I know about LOTR. I do have to say tho I know I dont post in these forums that much but I have read them for a while and all I can say is if you (and by you many people) feel that LOTRO is not going to be good or you have major problems with it. DONT SPEND YOUR MONEY ON IT! and try to find something better to do then bitch about a game that is not even out yet, So how do you know if it will be good or not anyways?
Well, you're right of course I should just stay away from games I dislike, but the hard part is finding any game worth the effort. I had some hopes for LOTRO once upon a time, I merely happen to think the subject matter deserved thoughtful treatment that was radically different from standard MMORPG practice. I believe I am entitled to that opinion.
Would I like a game or a film 100% true to LOTR? Yes, But can you imagne how hard that game would be? How long it would take to get from place to place? The devs have to find a way to make it so the Hardcore fans can play and visit the places they have come to know and love and at the same time they have to make a game that some one who for what ever reason has never herd of Lord of the Rings can pick up and play it and enjoy the game. Now that can not be an easy feat, even more so with something so loved all over the world like LOTR.
The other part that I am sure is difficult is how to tell the story with out really effecting how the story plays out. Now I do know much about it, but from what I hear you will meet the characters as the progress through the story. And you will see the story unfold from a diffrent point of veiw, your own. Now I do not know about you but I think this is an intresting way to tell the story. Altho I could be totatly wrong about this
I guess what I am trying to say in this long winded rant
I agree with the original poster on the time-setting and made same a similar point on their official forums back when they first announced this. I've read the books dozens of times and seen the movies (both versions) dozens of times. I've 'lived' the story. I wouldn't feel a part of the story playing this as an mmo since the outcome is pre-determined and nothing I do will change it.
They would have given this game so much more scope if they'd set it after the events of the Return of the King. Sure a few years later all the elves disappear but they simply don't vanish overnight. The recent films are misleading on that count. Eg. from memory Galadriel leads the elves of Lothlorien on a campaign to cleanse the Murkwood and tear down the Witch-King's fortress before she sails off.
They could have set the game after the books and still allowed player elves - but Rivendell and Lothlorien would have been sparsely populated (not as they appear in the books) and the player elves would have been like Legolas, lone wanderers who hung around for quite some time travelling the world with Gimli before they sailed into the West.
The prospect of living in and shaping Middle Earth post Frodo seems much more exciting to me.
LotRO will be extremely successful. It has mainstream appeal, and is fun to play, with good graphics and a storyline quest system. Like any game, it will not appeal to everyone, but it will be very successful - far more successful than I would have thought a year ago.
Saying LotRO is OK at best is like saying WoW is OK at best. It may not be the game for you, but you have to be crazy not to see the widespread appeal of the game.
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC