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Future mmorpgs will be mmorpg/fps's IMHO

XaldorXaldor Member Posts: 236

Planetside and Necreon are the only 2 that use the FPS based gameplay thusfar, however it is my belief that this will be the new trend that game developers cling to in the not so distant future.  My reasoning for this is simple...sandwich style pvp and pve is boring!!! Also BF1942, CS, UT 2004, whatever FPS may be your favorite also tends to get boring after a few rounds. 

If a developer can seemlessly blend these two genres together, without favoring one over the other, that game developer would rake in a huge # of people that are getting sick of the "same old thing".  Most of the new MMORPG's imho are just clones of EQ and UO, with a lot more bells and whistles. 

 I know that there are going to be hardcore rpgers and hardcore fpsers that are satisfied with the status quo, that will probably flame me for this thread, but damnit it's time to evolve and move forward. 

I know that this is not a revolutionary idea...ie planetside and necreon...but  my own circle of gamers that I communicate with regularly all agree that something needs to shake up the mmorpg community, and we believe that is skill based combat...ala CS and the rest... this would definately be  a step in the right direction.

 

Opinions please...I am only stating mine, so now it's your opportunity to state yours....Xaldorimage 

Comments

  • TaskyZZTaskyZZ Member Posts: 1,476

    I disagree... I don't think it will go that way.

    They can have the FPS look, but I do not believe they will have the FPS style of play. Many players (dare I say most) do not like the twitch style of combat, where they are constantly getting beat by kids with fast reflexes who do nothing but play games like that. I am one of them. I have tried logging into Unreal, or CounterStrike and playing with these kids that are gods at these types of games. Your average players is not going to like that style of play at all. MMORPG's are meant to be a little slower and a little more laid back.

    Just like you, this is just my opinion.


  • XaldorXaldor Member Posts: 236
    I guess I can agree that kids would have an advantage, but are'nt you getting tired of the point-click-wait to win style of gamelpay...maybe they could have lvl of difficulty servers or something.  I mean I'm not very good at cs either, but the adrenaline rush that i get in a good battle, well outweighs the rush of getting new gear or lvling up...just my opinion...Xaldorimage

  • GnarledGnarled Member Posts: 566

    Never mind the kids, how about Joe Geek with his 3 day old hopped-up Alienware and the T3 at work ?  Besides, when you really get into a mmorpg you can play it for hours on end, thats what makes it so addictive, I go nuts after 2-3 hours of twitch gaming.

    Combat in a well designed mmorpg can be just as involving if you know what you are doing and playing with competent people.


    A fronte precipitium a tergo lupi

    EQII
    Requiiem, Templar
    Neriak

  • TaskyZZTaskyZZ Member Posts: 1,476

    Yes, there is the rush of fighting in that fast paced action way, but that is what Unreal and counterstrike are for.

    I guess they could make a persistent world Unreal, but my idea of an MMORPG, is for my character to gain in skill. And if I do not get better at Unreal, then my character isn't getting any better. Another problem with twitch based combat is the person with the better PC and the most bandwidth has an advantage. And that is always going to turn away players as well.

    Also with twitch based combat, AI is a lot harder to program. It is much easier to take advantage of the AI because a free thinking person can outperform it so much easier. But with sandwich style, the AI has more of a chance, since your characters actions are forced to be as slow as the AI. Or, of course, there is the flipside of that, they can make the AI never miss a shot (since the game is not skill based), in which case you would not stand a chance.

    I guess I just cannot see it, because I like the thought of improving my character, I have always enjoyedthis since my Original D & D days. We complain enough as it is that the better characters are the ones who spend more time playing, but that is even worse in a twitch based game. Like playing on an Unreal map that is new to you, but all the other players have played on it a million times and they know every nook and cranny. You don't stand a chance, they run right for the power ups, they know the good sniping spots, all the spawn points, etc...

  • LotariousLotarious Member Posts: 85

    I think you are both basically correct.

    remember Xaldor said a 'seemless blending'

    I agree that the future of mmorpg's is somewhere inbetween current mmorpgs and fps style games.

    What I believe needs to happen as part of the shake up is that mmorpgs move away from monster/loot camping paradigms and move more towards a mission/quest/objective based paradigm.

    ---------------------------------
    Killer 80%|Achiever 53%|Socializer 46%|Explorer 20%

  • TaskyZZTaskyZZ Member Posts: 1,476


    Originally posted by Lotarious
    What I believe needs to happen as part of the shake up is that mmorpgs move away from monster/loot camping paradigms and move more towards a mission/quest/objective based paradigm.

    I agree with this, not really with the getting rid of monsters/loot, but getting rid of the camping and whatnot. Giving the players missions and quests, stuff to do, where you just gain skill/experience while doing these things.

    I guess Ultime X (UXO, whatever) is trying to solve this problem, by having actual quests and missions, where your party would be the only people in the dungeon.

    Also, I think Guild Wars has a same sort of solution in it as well...


  • LotariousLotarious Member Posts: 85


    Originally posted by TaskyZZ
    Originally posted by Lotarious
    What I believe needs to happen as part of the shake up is that mmorpgs move away from monster/loot camping paradigms and move more towards a mission/quest/objective based paradigm.

    I agree with this, not really with the getting rid of monsters/loot, but getting rid of the camping and whatnot. Giving the players missions and quests, stuff to do, where you just gain skill/experience while doing these things.

    I guess Ultime X (UXO, whatever) is trying to solve this problem, by having actual quests and missions, where your party would be the only people in the dungeon.

    Also, I think Guild Wars has a same sort of solution in it as well...




    Yes exactly! I'm very much looking forward to both games and hope that they will start to move us in the right direction.

    ---------------------------------
    Killer 80%|Achiever 53%|Socializer 46%|Explorer 20%

  • XaldorXaldor Member Posts: 236



    Originally posted by TaskyZZ

    Yes, there is the rush of fighting in that fast paced action way, but that is what Unreal and counterstrike are for.
    I guess they could make a persistent world Unreal, but my idea of an MMORPG, is for my character to gain in skill. And if I do not get better at Unreal, then my character isn't getting any better. Another problem with twitch based combat is the person with the better PC and the most bandwidth has an advantage. And that is always going to turn away players as well.
    Also with twitch based combat, AI is a lot harder to program. It is much easier to take advantage of the AI because a free thinking person can outperform it so much easier. But with sandwich style, the AI has more of a chance, since your characters actions are forced to be as slow as the AI. Or, of course, there is the flipside of that, they can make the AI never miss a shot (since the game is not skill based), in which case you would not stand a chance.
    I guess I just cannot see it, because I like the thought of improving my character, I have always enjoyedthis since my Original D & D days. We complain enough as it is that the better characters are the ones who spend more time playing, but that is even worse in a twitch based game. Like playing on an Unreal map that is new to you, but all the other players have played on it a million times and they know every nook and cranny. You don't stand a chance, they run right for the power ups, they know the good sniping spots, all the spawn points, etc...




    I'm not sure I conveyed my thoughts clearly enough on this subject.  The game I am thinking of will not favor fps over rpg...you would still be able to improve your character without being "super commando dude".  You could be a medic, a crafter, a trader, yada yada yada...I just think that the reason a lot of people play games is for a challenge...and right now there is not much of a challenge in mmorpg's, except the challenge of sitting in front of your pc for as long as possible in order to gain xp...Xaldor

  • ManiakManiak Member Posts: 10



    Originally posted by Xaldor
    I guess I can agree that kids would have an advantage, but are'nt you getting tired of the point-click-wait to win style of gamelpay...maybe they could have lvl of difficulty servers or something.  I mean I'm not very good at cs either, but the adrenaline rush that i get in a good battle, well outweighs the rush of getting new gear or lvling up...just my opinion...Xaldorimage



    Funny you should mention CS.. its been my experience that there are 4 types of players in my 3 years of CSing..  Noobs, Sucky to moderate players,  Good player. and Cheaters.  There are a few exceptions on oustanding players, BUT more likely then not the player that seems too good to be good .... heres a hint, he probably is 999999 out of 1000000.  There are too many accesible cheats out there and too many ways to hide them and too inadequate detection devices to warrent a decloration of a "good player" .... Just my opinion from what i have seen and experienced. 

    Maniak

  • horridhorrid Member Posts: 129




    What I believe needs to happen as part of the shake up is that mmorpgs move away from monster/loot camping paradigms and move more towards a mission/quest/objective based paradigm.




    Agree 100%.  I can see the current combat systems working fine in a system that promotes true dungeon crawling, pushing forwards constantly with a constant risk of death.  EQ combat could be good when pushing the limits on a duneon crawl.

    The pull kill repeat style of play is dead for most players onto the second or 3rd game.  Guild Wars sounds like its going to have that style of play. 

    Combat should become more interactive but never twitch.  All the effort going into more interactive combat will be pointless if games don't break out of the camping mentality.  If I have to camp one set of monsters for hours on end to level I don't want to have to control my characters every swing, that would drive me more crazy than just hitting attack.

  • MistiMisti Member Posts: 724

    I kinda think the influx of fps elements into mmorgs is destroying them and the reason that many of the new ones are failing. 

    They are two different types of games and while I can understand wanting to mix the best elements of each, there need to still be some mmorpgs created that follow the good old roleplaying design that made the originals so popular.

  • {Redeon}{Redeon} Member Posts: 8

    ummm what about WW2OL?

     

    I'd personally love to be able to play Bf42 on a say 200 person server ( that would be godly great especially if there was no monthly fee! and of course little to no lag)

  • AlientAlient Member Posts: 315


    Originally posted by TaskyZZ
    ...where they are constantly getting beat by kids with fast reflexes who do nothing but play games like that. I am one of them. I have tried logging into Unreal, or CounterStrike and playing with these kids that are gods at these types of games.

    Hey, why do you assume that it's kids that have these fast reflexes? I'm 34 years old and damn good at UT and UT2003 (not so great at CS though and my computer can't handle UT2004). Most of the people I knew playing the game that were good were at age 25 to 50. I know a guy that's just excellent at CS and he's 24. I may have a high-speed connection, but my computer is by no means top-of-the-line. I understand that not everybody likes the twitch style and I will agree with you that I don't think it would be good for MMORPGs. Other than that, just don't assume that it's a kid stomping your butt in a FPS. ::::31::

  • TaskyZZTaskyZZ Member Posts: 1,476


    Originally posted by Alient
    Hey, why do you assume that it's kids that have these fast reflexes? I'm 34 years old and damn good at UT and UT2003 (not so great at CS though and my computer can't handle UT2004). Most of the people I knew playing the game that were good were at age 25 to 50. I know a guy that's just excellent at CS and he's 24. I may have a high-speed connection, but my computer is by no means top-of-the-line. I understand that not everybody likes the twitch style and I will agree with you that I don't think it would be good for MMORPGs. Other than that, just don't assume that it's a kid stomping your butt in a FPS. ::::31::

    Aaahhh, don't fool yourself. You may think you are good (I think I am good), but trust me, when you get whipped, it was a 14 year old kid with nothing better to do than play Unreal for 6 hours a day...

  • GardarGardar Member Posts: 50
    WWII online is Fps based too :)

    Gar

    Gar

  • ThoemseThoemse Member UncommonPosts: 457

    There will allways be both types of MMORPGs. There's people who just can't stand FPS playstyle.
    You forgot to mention Endless Ages btw, It's a FPS-MMORPG too.

    I enjoyed myself for a long time in Neocron but i still like different types of MMORPGs like Linegae 2 with a classical 3rd Person/isometric view.

  • OsarOsar Member Posts: 2

    I've read many a similar discussion lately and I was thinking it might be interesting if a game allowed for different styles of play. For example: Merchants and Politicians classes that would play in a RTS sort of way.  Combat style classes would play in a more FPS manner. And various crafting and performance style classes would play in a more traditional rpg manner.  Each would depend on the other in some fashion. The RTS'ers would be making trade agreements, declarying war or truces with other villages etc. This could effect the prices crafters pay and the availablity of items only available from distant villages. This would rise the prices that fps'ers have to pay but would also mean more work fighting wars, smuggling black market items, protecting shipments from one city to another etc.

    Anything more dynamic and varied than another MMORPG with thousands of people all doing the exact same quests.

      -Osar

  • AlientAlient Member Posts: 315


    Originally posted by TaskyZZ

    Aaahhh, don't fool yourself. You may think you are good (I think I am good), but trust me, when you get whipped, it was a 14 year old kid with nothing better to do than play Unreal for 6 hours a day...

    I'm not trying to fool anyone. Your main point about playing for 6 hours a day is the key point and not the age. I was heavily into clan matches and competitions in both UT and UT2003. With UT NgStats, I was number one in Assault for like 5 months in a row. I didn't have to think I was good, I knew I was good.

    If you were just around any tournaments or events, you would see that the best players in the world usually don't fall into the "14 to 15 year pimply face kid that has nothing better to do with his time category." Just go to a CPL event and look at the ages. How about I just give you a link to one of the top CS teams in the world and see if any of their members look 14. I'm not sure why there is this urban myth that majority of gamers are teenagers. I know that wasn't your point, but it gets transfered to if someone is kicking my butt, it must be a kid that has too much time on his hands because they still believe that kids spend the most time playing games. All I'm doing is trying to dispel this myth even though I'm probably getting people to think "this old guy needs to get out more," which is another urban myth that I'll save for another day. ::::12::

  • TaskyZZTaskyZZ Member Posts: 1,476

    They look like kids to me... They've just been playing CS since they were 14... :)


  • AlientAlient Member Posts: 315


    Originally posted by TaskyZZ
    They look like kids to me... They've just been playing CS since they were 14... :)

    ::::17:: I would have to say I would still consider them kids too. But, they are in their 20's.

    Back to topic. A first person perspective seems to give more of an immersion in a game than a third person perspective does. A third person makes you feel like you are watching over someone and telling him what to do. A first person makes it feel like it's actually you. Just because it's a first person perspective does not mean the gameplay has to be similar to the common first person shooter games. The key word is shooter. Just because you have a first person perspective does not mean that the game has to be a shooter. It's just that Neocron and Planetside decided to follow this route. Of course I love Deus Ex and it's a shooter and an RPG.

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