and on top of the highlighted text i would like to add, that it puts a serious strain on the rest of the family. do you honestly believe that if his dad or mom disown him that the rest of his family will too, just because the dad did? i have deep relationships with both sides of me parents families. if, God forbid, me dad ever disowned me, i would still be welcomed at any of their houses, parties, etc. dont you think that that would be just as disruptive as allowing your child his/her own lifestyle? Oo and just to clarify, we, as parents, are only parents to teach our children to approach the world in a mature and openeyed way, not to dictate what they can and will do or not do for the rest of their lives. dont you think that its a bit immature to disown an adult for choosing to live their life the way they choose, just because its not what you would have chosen?
If they are a well adjusted family, then yes I do think many of thier family members if not most will also disown him. Much moreso then the parents actually.
Also you are not putting this into the context of criminal behavior is the problem. You keep ignoring the entire point of the arguement and trying to frame it from just one side.
If we replaced homesexual with CHILD MOLESTOR. Then would you still agree? Would it matter if the person actually thought that the entire family were wrong and that they should all molest thier children, and that it was his duty to try to convert them to his belief system? You really think the entire family should welcome uncle Bob the child molestor into their family with open arms? Maybe they should let uncle Bob baby sit the kids on friday nights?
Whats the difference? Its just a lifestyle choice that the family cant change. To quote PlanoMM "dont you think that its a bit immature to disown an adult for choosing to live their life the way they choose, just because its not what you would have chosen?"
My friends told me not to do it, but I did. I called my parents this Christmas to see if they would talk to me. My dad hung the phone up as soon as I said, "Merry Christmas, Dad".
My friends were there to pick me back up after it was over.
I hear people all the time talking about how you never see Muslim's trying to clean up their religion and instead choose to let the bad things in their religion go on. I wonder if those people realize the bad things they let go on in Christianity without speaking up.
I'm not giving up. I will try again next year. And if my parents won't talk to me next year, I'll try the year after that.
I hope you guys all had a Merry Christmas. Please treasure the time you get to spend with your families.
It is truly something to hold close. I miss mine like I could never express.
Read your post.Just out of curiosity would your parents/family have a southern baptist background?
Thats where my families background is rooted.Let me tell you about MY family.
My sister has NEVER dated someone who was not married.She even has a kid by a married man.
My brother has 2 kids is divorced.He has dated numerous women leading them on as to having a meaningful relationship.This would go so far as to actually bring 1 over for thanksgiving and then dump them on the way home.(seems they were getting to "close".)His kids are now 13 and 15.They both need braces for their teeth.He and his ex wont get braces because neither 1 wants to actually pay for it.
I was the blacksheep of the family.
I grew up as a punk rocker.Starting off in rehab thanx to my loving bro and sis introducing me to drugs and various other substances.I started off at the age of 10.So growing up i would just stay out ALL nite.I would go to downtown Atlanta to a little club called the Metroplex.The 688 club was frequented as well.
Meanwhile there were more than a few occasions i saw my dad drunk out of his mind.Remember he and my mother were both "popular" members of 1 of the larger baptist churches in Atlanta.Wieuca road baptist church.I saw her out of it a few times as well.
It is in the heart of buckhead.Look at the link the opening page has a shot of the church right across from 1 of the largest shopping malls in metro atlanta and it is in 1 of the more affluent areas of the city.Growing up baptist turned me AWAY from religion in general.
Now though is a different story.Currently i have been married for 13 years.Ive been with my wife for 22.I turned out to be more succesful in my life than anyone else in my family.Im covered in tattoos and im a practicing catholic.(pissed off mom and dad even more while i was at it).I work part time and take care of my daughter and i do what i love.I even do volunteer work locally.
Im not bragging please dont think i am.
I spent so much of my youth "underground" i met people from all walks of life.There was a part of town that i would go to back in the 80's was crawling with neonazi skinheads.I would walk right by them on the way to a Burning spear concert.Later on id be running back to my car with my buddies.When i was dating my wife she knew a lot of gay people.I had no qualms about going to a gay club.
What am i trying to say?
Dont sweat it.Sure it sucks your dad has abandoned you much less your family.Its their loss.Dont let it consume you if you do it justifies everything he has done.
A socalled true christian would not abandon someone they loved.They would merely accept who this "different" person is and attempt to live by example.
I hope the "cliffnotes" of my life helped give you a bit of perspective.
EDIT:Was just reading some of the postings above me.Sometimes a person is just looking for a bit of compassion NOT more prosecution.Just for the record my god is not vengeful.My god is forgiving of ALL sins.
His entire family could just accept him how he is and carry on. Problem solved.
Dammit. I should go work for the UN.
Sounds to me that his family has accepted him and moved on. They have agreed he isnt changing and have removed him from the family, as well they should.
Maybe this guy needs to accept his families beliefs and move on, and stop crying on these boards for attention. I dont see his family crying on these boards. This guy wants to do something that is obviously against everything his entire family has raised him to believe, and dont see why his family should show him one ounce of respect, he obviously doesnt care about them at all, do to his lifestyle CHOICE.
Homosexuality is not a choice you dumb -_-. Mabey my family should shun me because when I was a child I took a sip of her rum and coke thinking it was just soda?
It's not constructive because his family can't seize the fruits of their investment. Gay or not, that's not the only facet the his personality and his life. He has far more to offer. Not seizing that is just a waste.
And it used to be punsihment when certain behaviour ment a certain death in a much more harsh envirmonemtn where xenophobia actually served an evolutionary goal. Being gay doesn't harm anyone. It's also something that can not bechanged. Just like being male or female can't be changed, no matter what kind of body you have. This is what thousands of years of science and evolution learn us. It's is called evolution. Not trough genes, but trough memes.
Also, current (constructive and financially rewarding) emprisonment systems usualy aim for a rehabilitation of the prinsoner. This means that they will invest to alter his behaviour (if it's not an inherent part of his personality) because in the end bringing the prisoner back to society will pay off.
Pedophilia, assualt and theft actually hurt someone. Being gay hurts others as much as being male or female does.
And their punishment is pointless. It costs energy and causes sorrow while it will never, ever seize a reward.
In my personal opinion the only person you can (and should) count on is yourself. So my personal advice is to let his faimly go. They're clearly not worth his attention. But on the other hand... It's family.
Be an adult. And accept others even tho you believe they're in some way more unnatural than you taking anti-biotics.
Thats exactly the point. His family doesnt want what he has to offer, which is more corruption and deviant behavior.
Homosexual behavior doesnt hurt anyone? Kinda like Drug abuse, Prostitution, and Alcholism? (notice two of those are actually illegal, and one is not illegal, much like Homesexual behavior?)
Its a proven fact that Homosexual behavior does hurt society, and recent studies commission by the Supreme Court have proven the following:
Homesexuals: Were more frequently disruptive, more frequently criminal, had a higher rate of drug abuse, took more sexual risks, were less frequently productive, frequently missed work, generated excessive costs (e.g., higher consumers of medical services), had a higher rate of mental disorders, more promiscuous and have a higher rate of sexual transmitted diseases.
As far as punishment / prison being for rehabilition only. Thats just blantly false. It is partially used for that, but there wouldnt be multiple life sentences if it was only rehabilition. The main use of prison is as a deterrent against criminal behavior in the first place. Prison is an effective deterrent for most people, and for those that are not deterred, they can go to prison, at that point they can try to rehabilitate and if that dont work they can stay there for the rest of thier lives, shunned from society.
I am sure if this guy was to go back to his family, SINCERELY renounce his past lifestyle choice, and people believed he would actually change his deviant behavior. Then I am sure many in his family would welcome him, much like any family with someone who had a relative that was a criminal.
In this case I think what he wants is his family to agree and accept his criminal behavior. Much like a child molestor, that way he could try to influence the kids in his family and try to convert them to his deviant lifestyle.
Lifestyle choice? Excuse me, but may I ask, when did you receive the illusion that homosexuality is a choice?
Lifestyle choice? Excuse me, but may I ask, when did you receive the illusion that homosexuality is a choice?
Well lets say it is not choice (which by the way there is absolutely no proof to say that it isnt a choice). What if child molesters, serial rapists and murderers, were all caused by genes. Would that make them any less repugnant? Child Molesters have a recidivism rate of like 99%. All that tells me is that they need to be locked up forever so that they cant continue to ruin the rest of society.
I have seen studies that link most child molesters and serial rapists to sexually abuse as children. I wouldnt doubt Homosexuality is caused the same way. It sucks that happened to them as children, but the more you leave them in society the more problems they will cause.
Edit: I just googled Homosexuality and Child Molestation, depending which state the various studies were done, 66% to 90% of all child molestors admitted to being gay or bisexual.
In another study by Kinsey 25% of gays admitted to sex with a minor under 16yrs of age. This is disputed by the Gay Report which claims its only 23% of gays that admit sex with a minor (interestly only 6% of lesbians admit to sex with minors).
Pretty staggering numbers considering on a small fraction of people are actually gay. Yet are commiting most of the sexual molestation.
Lifestyle choice? Excuse me, but may I ask, when did you receive the illusion that homosexuality is a choice?
Well lets say it is not choice (which by the way there is absolutely no proof to say that it isnt a choice). What if child molesters, serial rapists and murderers, were all caused by genes. Would that make them any less repugnant? Child Molesters have a recidivism rate of like 99%. All that tells me is that they need to be locked up forever so that they cant continue to ruin the rest of society.
I have seen studies that link most child molesters and serial rapists to sexually abuse as children. I wouldnt doubt Homosexuality is caused the same way. It sucks that happened to them as children, but the more you leave them in society the more problems they will cause.
Edit: I just googled Homosexuality and Child Molestation, depending which state the various studies were done, 66% to 90% of all child molestors admitted to being gay or bisexual.
In another study by Kinsey 25% of gays admitted to sex with a minor under 16yrs of age. This is disputed by the Gay Report which claims its only 23% of gays that admit sex with a minor (interestly only 6% of lesbians admit to sex with minors).
Pretty staggering numbers considering on a small fraction of people are actually gay. Yet are commiting most of the sexual molestation.
Saying that there is "absolutely no proof" is downright a lie. its simply not true, It has not been fully proven yet, Thats true, but there IS a lot of evidence. I find it weird that you compare homosexuality to Child molesters, serial repists and murderers. the last 3 are a problem for other people. Homosexuality, on the other hand, does not affect people directly. You keep pretending like its some kind of "choice" that he made. If possible, maybe the OP could post the story of his past again. I ask you to read it and then come back here and claim that it is a choice of lifestyle.
I also googled homosxuality & child mosestation, and this is the result:
I can't believe you guys are still arguing in this thread! The OP has quit posting long ago yet you guys keep on going. BTW the best thing to do when Gameloading starts arguing is to not reply to him because that guy will go on and on and on and on and on.
Saying that there is "absolutely no proof" is downright a lie. its simply not true, It has not been fully proven yet, Thats true, but there IS a lot of evidence. I find it weird that you compare homosexuality to Child molesters, serial repists and murderers. the last 3 are a problem for other people. Homosexuality, on the other hand, does not affect people directly.
I also googled homosxuality & child mosestation, and this is the result:
Gameloading you usually have a decent arguement. But that was just lame. The site you quoted for one had almost zero actually evidence. It was just a blog about what people think. Keep in mind this is a university close to Sanfrancisco.
Whats worse is the evidence the site shows is a poll of what average Americans think, if they believe that Homosexuals commit more molestations then the average person.
LOL is this a joke. How the heck will average Americans know what child molesters are doing. All they know is what a liberal media tells them. The facts I show are actual studies of what the Child Molesters themselves are admitting too. Also another source The Kinsey report is showing what people who claim they are gay are actually admitting too. And the Gay Report a Sanfranciso based firm actually asks self proclaimed homosexuals in Sanfrancisco what they have done.
All your little poll proved is that the Average American is totally oblivious about how Gay's are Molesting our children.
Im sorry Upallnight, that you're parents hate you for being you.
Being a lesbian myself, I've recieved hatred, but not from my family. Infact, no one in my family even cares. Not my grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, second cousins, or my parents. And they all know, and they ALL ( yes, all of them ) told me that they don't mind. Funny thing is, most are christian.
So I can't relate too the family hating, and Im so sorry you have to go through it. I suppose Im lucky enough to have a caring and loving family that understands.
If you ever need anyone you wish to talk too, pm me.
---
As for Briany, why are you comparing us to bloody child molesters/pedophiles, murderer's and etc? We're nothing like them. And I don't give too shits about scientists or polls going around, those so called "facts" does NOT count for all of us.
Gee, I'm a Lesbian, so I must love molesting little girls and doing drugs!
Also, anyone who chooses to be a homosexual, really isn't homosexual. Not actualy attracted too the same sex. Same for bi's.
It's not a choice. I never choose to be attracted to other woman. When I look at a man, clothed or even naked, I get turned off and want to puke. So tell me, how is that a choice?
I've never known anyone to choose to be thrown out of their house, shunned, and hated. We're at higher risks of being killed by hate crimes than anyone else. We can loose our families, jobs, and even our houses just for liking the same sex as us. So please tell me why someone would choose that?!
If I could, I'd be straight. But it's not possible. I've tried, never worked. I get sick and don't even find ANY man attractive. But it's just not possible for me. So heh.
Saying that there is "absolutely no proof" is downright a lie. its simply not true, It has not been fully proven yet, Thats true, but there IS a lot of evidence. I find it weird that you compare homosexuality to Child molesters, serial repists and murderers. the last 3 are a problem for other people. Homosexuality, on the other hand, does not affect people directly.
I also googled homosxuality & child mosestation, and this is the result:
Gameloading you usually have a decent arguement. But that was just lame. The site you quoted for one had almost zero actually evidence. It was just a blog about what people think. Keep in mind this is a university close to Sanfrancisco.
Whats worse is the evidence the site shows is a poll of what average Americans think, if they believe that Homosexuals commit more molestations then the average person.
LOL is this a joke. How the heck will average Americans know what child molesters are doing. All they know is what a liberal media tells them. The facts I show are actual studies of what the Child Molesters themselves are admitting too. Also another source The Kinsey report is showing what people who claim they are gay are actually admitting too. And the Gay Report a Sanfranciso based firm actually asks self proclaimed homosexuals in Sanfrancisco what they have done.
All your little poll proved is that the Average American is totally oblivious about how Gay's are Molesting our children.
It may not had all factual evidence, but it DID point out that many of those so called investigation (you DID read the entire article, did you?) May I also remind that you didn't bring any real factual evidence to the table either? You brought to the table that, out of XX amount of gays asked, XX molested children, and out of XX child molesters, XX was gay/bisexual. not ONCE did you bring any scientific fact to the table that these figures represent the entire homosexual community. not ONCE did you bring any scientific evidence that homosexuality increases the possibility that a person is a child molester.
Lets get back to the situation at hand here. I assume the OP does not mollest children. Your statement still stands, Brainy, that you agree with his parents to kick him out, because, according to you, it is a choice of lifestyle. Why would he make a decision to be homosexual, when being straigth has so many advantages, Lillith mentioned a few. and look at the past. People would get killed for being homosexual. Why would anyone chose for that? We have homosexuals here claiming that they did not make a decision. Are you sure you want to claim they are lying?
p.s. thank you for your compliment about my arguements. You will find my arguements in the off-topic section to be much weaker then the ones in the general section, because MMORPG's is simply the subject I know most about.
It may not had all factual evidence, but it DID point out that many of those so called investigation (you DID read the entire article, did you?) May I also remind that you didn't bring any real factual evidence to the table either? You brought to the table that, out of XX amount of gays asked, XX molested children, and out of XX child molesters, XX was gay/bisexual. not ONCE did you bring any scientific fact to the table that these figures represent the entire homosexual community. not ONCE did you bring any scientific evidence that homosexuality increases the possibility that a person is a child molester.
Yet, one guy says he's Christian and goes on some hate against gays is enough for you to write off a whole religion and everyone in it as being nothing more then close minded hate mongers.
It may not had all factual evidence, but it DID point out that many of those so called investigation (you DID read the entire article, did you?) May I also remind that you didn't bring any real factual evidence to the table either? You brought to the table that, out of XX amount of gays asked, XX molested children, and out of XX child molesters, XX was gay/bisexual. not ONCE did you bring any scientific fact to the table that these figures represent the entire homosexual community. not ONCE did you bring any scientific evidence that homosexuality increases the possibility that a person is a child molester.
Yet, one guy says he's Christian and goes on some hate against gays is enough for you to write off a whole religion and everyone in it as being nothing more then close minded hate mongers. I will not go in full detail to that because to keep the peace on this forum, I think there has been enough flaming already. But let me DO state that you misunderstood a part of my post. However I deleted those posts for a reason. The red lighted part + your example also are not related in any way to each other.
Well so basically if I understand this right. The main arguement here is that Gays cannot be compared to child molesters? So basically if they were considered child molesters then parents are doing the correct thing?
So the real debate here is does the parents have the right to feel that Homosexuality is equal to a child molester.
Its obvious the parents feel they are equal to some criminal element like a child molester. Studies show they are more highly likely then most to become child molesters.
I think the OP is not respecting his parents lifestyle choice. Which is to banish from thier society all criminal elements. Maybe the OP should abide by his families wishes and just leave them alone and take his self imposed punishments.
Tetsul I really hope you are not saying I was the "Christian" because im absolutely not. So please dont try to pigeon hole me into some religion debate.
To the Lesbian above, why you ask do people choose to be gay? Ummm well im sure there are many reasons. Im am not a psychologist, (however I did take a few courses in it). I suppose if you can explain why some people choose to be child molesters, murders, rapists, bullies, or any other criminal for that matter you might actually find your answers there. People do things for stupid reasons, please dont ask me to name them all.
I for one dont care if its a lifestyle choice or not. If I found out child molesting was not a choice, I would feel exactly the same about them also. Many people equal homosexuals similar child molesters, so unless your saying that people shouldnt treat child molesters in the manner the OP is saying his parents are treating him. Then I think we all pretty much agree.
@ Gameloading - I enjoy many of your other posts, you put reasoning and logic behind them, lol at least you did some research, most dont do any at all, and just follow like sheep. As for my main source, googled and this came up on top. http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet2.html
Im sorry Upallnight, that you're parents hate you for being you.
Being a lesbian myself, I've recieved hatred, but not from my family. Infact, no one in my family even cares. Not my grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, second cousins, or my parents. And they all know, and they ALL ( yes, all of them ) told me that they don't mind. Funny thing is, most are christian.
So I can't relate too the family hating, and Im so sorry you have to go through it. I suppose Im lucky enough to have a caring and loving family that understands.
If you ever need anyone you wish to talk too, pm me.
---
As for Briany, why are you comparing us to bloody child molesters/pedophiles, murderer's and etc? We're nothing like them. And I don't give too shits about scientists or polls going around, those so called "facts" does NOT count for all of us.
Gee, I'm a Lesbian, so I must love molesting little girls and doing drugs!
Also, anyone who chooses to be a homosexual, really isn't homosexual. Not actualy attracted too the same sex. Same for bi's.
It's not a choice. I never choose to be attracted to other woman. When I look at a man, clothed or even naked, I get turned off and want to puke. So tell me, how is that a choice?
I've never known anyone to choose to be thrown out of their house, shunned, and hated. We're at higher risks of being killed by hate crimes than anyone else. We can loose our families, jobs, and even our houses just for liking the same sex as us. So please tell me why someone would choose that?!
If I could, I'd be straight. But it's not possible. I've tried, never worked. I get sick and don't even find ANY man attractive. But it's just not possible for me. So heh.
Weren't you Bi a couple months ago, and you just preferred women over men?
Wait, no, can't be possible. You were born a lesbian.
Sorry for the mix-up.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Erm no, I wasn not. I was a Lesbian from the start, and that will never change. If I said I was Bi somewhere, than it was a mistake, heh.
And don't recall ever saying I was born a Lesbian either. Don't put words down that I never typed and than try too make it seem like I did.
No one is born straight gay or bi.
But that was a damn good try.
Im done here.
I think Alot of us thought so because of a thread called I discovered that I'm bisexual started by Angyl... and you wrote.
Originally posted by LilithIshtar
Originally posted by Gameloading
*waits till OneMuslim jumps in the thread, telling everybody how wrong the OP is and telling her she should convert to the Islam asap*
LOL. My soda went up my nose when I read that. :d
Mm what shall I say?..
That one encounter isn't really enough to help you decide if your bi or not.
Now listen here.
I'm a girl.
I'm also bi.
I also prefer girls over males.
How do I know this?
Because Im attracted to them far more. Because I've been in "several" ( more than 1 ) situtations with other girls to help me figure out if I like them or not.
I suggest testing it out. Go to more clubs, and yes if you must, wear the school girl outfit again to attract attintion ( I have a japanese school girl outfit XD Uber hot ) and see if you like it or not.
Oo
My mothers a Christian. She knows. And she doesn't care. Why? Because I'm her daughter, and she loves me no matter what.
In fact, she thinks homosexuality is perfectly fine, even though she is a rather hardcore Christian. Her words to me were "Love is love, no matter the gender." Makes me wish everyone could say the same.
Hope this helps!
Note you also stated you were bi again in that thread..
I quoted two things... That you stated that you were bi... and that your mom is really cool and accepting for understanding you and not trying to force you to be something that you dont feel you are..
Edit: I wasn't trying to pick you out or anything... its just that I was bored and I thought as well that you stated you were bi...
What's your Wu Name? Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader "Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.." <i>ME<i>
Erm no, I wasn not. I was a Lesbian from the start, and that will never change. If I said I was Bi somewhere, than it was a mistake, heh.
And don't recall ever saying I was born a Lesbian either. Don't put words down that I never typed and than try too make it seem like I did.
No one is born straight gay or bi.
But that was a damn good try.
Im done here.
I think Alot of us thought so because of a thread called I discovered that I'm bisexual started by Angyl... and you wrote.
Originally posted by LilithIshtar
Originally posted by Gameloading
*waits till OneMuslim jumps in the thread, telling everybody how wrong the OP is and telling her she should convert to the Islam asap*
LOL. My soda went up my nose when I read that. :d
Mm what shall I say?..
That one encounter isn't really enough to help you decide if your bi or not.
Now listen here.
I'm a girl.
I'm also bi.
I also prefer girls over males.
How do I know this?
Because Im attracted to them far more. Because I've been in "several" ( more than 1 ) situtations with other girls to help me figure out if I like them or not.
I suggest testing it out. Go to more clubs, and yes if you must, wear the school girl outfit again to attract attintion ( I have a japanese school girl outfit XD Uber hot ) and see if you like it or not.
Oo
My mothers a Christian. She knows. And she doesn't care. Why? Because I'm her daughter, and she loves me no matter what.
In fact, she thinks homosexuality is perfectly fine, even though she is a rather hardcore Christian. Her words to me were "Love is love, no matter the gender." Makes me wish everyone could say the same.
Hope this helps!
Note you also stated you were bi again in that thread..
I quoted two things... That you stated that you were bi... and that your mom is really cool and accepting for understanding you and not trying to force you to be something that you dont feel you are..
Edit: I wasn't trying to pick you out or anything... its just that I was bored and I thought as well that you stated you were bi...
Erm no, I wasn not. I was a Lesbian from the start, and that will never change. If I said I was Bi somewhere, than it was a mistake, heh.
And don't recall ever saying I was born a Lesbian either. Don't put words down that I never typed and than try too make it seem like I did.
No one is born straight gay or bi.
But that was a damn good try.
Im done here.
I think Alot of us thought so because of a thread called I discovered that I'm bisexual started by Angyl... and you wrote.
Originally posted by LilithIshtar
Originally posted by Gameloading
*waits till OneMuslim jumps in the thread, telling everybody how wrong the OP is and telling her she should convert to the Islam asap*
LOL. My soda went up my nose when I read that. :d
Mm what shall I say?..
That one encounter isn't really enough to help you decide if your bi or not.
Now listen here.
I'm a girl.
I'm also bi.
I also prefer girls over males.
How do I know this?
Because Im attracted to them far more. Because I've been in "several" ( more than 1 ) situtations with other girls to help me figure out if I like them or not.
I suggest testing it out. Go to more clubs, and yes if you must, wear the school girl outfit again to attract attintion ( I have a japanese school girl outfit XD Uber hot ) and see if you like it or not.
Oo
My mothers a Christian. She knows. And she doesn't care. Why? Because I'm her daughter, and she loves me no matter what.
In fact, she thinks homosexuality is perfectly fine, even though she is a rather hardcore Christian. Her words to me were "Love is love, no matter the gender." Makes me wish everyone could say the same.
Hope this helps!
Note you also stated you were bi again in that thread..
I quoted two things... That you stated that you were bi... and that your mom is really cool and accepting for understanding you and not trying to force you to be something that you dont feel you are..
Edit: I wasn't trying to pick you out or anything... its just that I was bored and I thought as well that you stated you were bi...
Owned!
uber owned. so i see a conflict in your posts here, lilth. no offense, but you stated in this thread that you want to puke when you see a man naked. im straight, but seeing a man naked doesnt make me sick, and im sure most would agree with that. doesnt mean im bi. you said yourself that no one is born gay, most gays believe that you are, so if youre not born with it, what causes the change in pref? and if you change pref, wouldnt that be a change in lifestyle? and wouldnt that make it a lifestyle choice?
Its pretty obvious that there are people doing the "gay" thing because Hollywood has declared that to be the "trendy" thing to do these days. Some might actually believe they didnt have a choice, kinda like some people had no choice but to buy a Playstation for $3000, I suppose it was calling thier name at night.
Unfortunately this "fad" is not like buying some trendy shoes, or maybe a certain hairstyle etc... this "fad" divides friends, families, and relationships. I really hope its worth it.
Here is what I dont understand. If all these gays really didnt have a choice, then why is there such a disconnect between the amount of gays at age 70 and age 16? Where are all the gay 60-80yrs olds? Why are they not coming out of the closet in droves like the little enlightened 16yr olds? Are we really suppose to believe the average teenager is more in tune with themselves then the average senior? Seniors have all been deluding themselves for the last 80 yrs? Seems a bit far fetched to me.
Its pretty obvious that there are people doing the "gay" thing because Hollywood has declared that to be the "trendy" thing to do these days. Some might actually believe they didnt have a choice, kinda like some people had no choice but to buy a Playstation for $3000, I suppose it was calling thier name at night. Unfortunately this "fad" is not like buying some trendy shoes, or maybe a certain hairstyle etc... this "fad" divides friends, families, and relationships. I really hope its worth it. Here is what I dont understand. If all these gays really didnt have a choice, then why is there such a disconnect between the amount of gays at age 70 and age 16? Where are all the gay 60-80yrs olds? Why are they not coming out of the closet in droves like the little enlightened 16yr olds? Are we really suppose to believe the average teenager is more in tune with themselves then the average senior? Seniors have all been deluding themselves for the last 80 yrs? Seems a bit far fetched to me.
How do you not understand it? Society didn't accept homosexuality in past decades, so gay people didn't come out. Now, it is becoming acceptable slowly but surely, so people aren't afraid to come out any more. I assure you there are just as many gay 80 year olds as there are 17 year olds, but the 80 year olds will go to their grave denying it.
and on top of the highlighted text i would like to add, that it puts a serious strain on the rest of the family. do you honestly believe that if his dad or mom disown him that the rest of his family will too, just because the dad did? i have deep relationships with both sides of me parents families. if, God forbid, me dad ever disowned me, i would still be welcomed at any of their houses, parties, etc. dont you think that that would be just as disruptive as allowing your child his/her own lifestyle? Oo and just to clarify, we, as parents, are only parents to teach our children to approach the world in a mature and openeyed way, not to dictate what they can and will do or not do for the rest of their lives. dont you think that its a bit immature to disown an adult for choosing to live their life the way they choose, just because its not what you would have chosen?
If they are a well adjusted family, then yes I do think many of thier family members if not most will also disown him. Much moreso then the parents actually.
Also you are not putting this into the context of criminal behavior is the problem. You keep ignoring the entire point of the arguement and trying to frame it from just one side.
If we replaced homesexual with CHILD MOLESTOR. Then would you still agree? Would it matter if the person actually thought that the entire family were wrong and that they should all molest thier children, and that it was his duty to try to convert them to his belief system? You really think the entire family should welcome uncle Bob the child molestor into their family with open arms? Maybe they should let uncle Bob baby sit the kids on friday nights?
Whats the difference? Its just a lifestyle choice that the family cant change. To quote PlanoMM "dont you think that its a bit immature to disown an adult for choosing to live their life the way they choose, just because its not what you would have chosen?"
a well adjusted family has relationships with each other. they wouldnt just automaticly cut <--stress on the CUT, someone out of their lives just because they did something they didnt agree with, even if it was wrong. how many people go and visit family in prison? is that wrong, should they completely forget the wrongdoer? Family is all about love, man. if you love a family member, you can and will look past their faults and failures. Oo and im trying to frame it from a family point of view. since the start of this topic i have been asking people i work with, family of me own, friends and such what they think and/or what they would do. i have yet to run across 1 person to say that they think that the dad is right. not 1 person would agree with that point of view, ive even used your arguements with them, and everyone of them said that family is TOO important in a persons life to do that.
you say that we should replace homosexual with child molestor and see if we agree. interesting point, now replace homosexual with smoker, drinker, bought a gameboy with allowance instead of saving like you told him to. now whats your opinion? should the dad still reject said person because they decided to spend their allowance on a game system instead of saving it, like you told him to? where do you draw the line? i can 100% honestly tell you that if me kids ever molested children, i would still love them. i may turn them in, and let them stay in prison, but id still love them. i would visit them in prison. i may not trust them around children anymore, but i wouldnt treat them as scum of the earth and worthy of hellfire. youre using an invalid arguement, loving them and accepting them as your children or family does not equal condoning their lifestyle or choices. it does not mean that youre admitting that their right and your wrong.
and your quoting me doesnt change the meaning of me quote, it still applies here. its a childish thought and action to "disown" a family member because they do or did something you wouldnt or dont approve of.
Its pretty obvious that there are people doing the "gay" thing because Hollywood has declared that to be the "trendy" thing to do these days. Some might actually believe they didnt have a choice, kinda like some people had no choice but to buy a Playstation for $3000, I suppose it was calling thier name at night. Unfortunately this "fad" is not like buying some trendy shoes, or maybe a certain hairstyle etc... this "fad" divides friends, families, and relationships. I really hope its worth it. Here is what I dont understand. If all these gays really didnt have a choice, then why is there such a disconnect between the amount of gays at age 70 and age 16? Where are all the gay 60-80yrs olds? Why are they not coming out of the closet in droves like the little enlightened 16yr olds? Are we really suppose to believe the average teenager is more in tune with themselves then the average senior? Seniors have all been deluding themselves for the last 80 yrs? Seems a bit far fetched to me.
How do you not understand it? Society didn't accept homosexuality in past decades, so gay people didn't come out. Now, it is becoming acceptable slowly but surely, so people aren't afraid to come out any more. I assure you there are just as many gay 80 year olds as there are 17 year olds, but the 80 year olds will go to their grave denying it.
if its sooooooo overpowering and overwhelming, how can they go to their graves denying it? unless its not as overpowering as its believed to be. i do happen to agree with this point, i do believe that it is an actual choice and not genetic, but thats another arguement altogether for me. me problem with brainys logic is the shunning a family member thing.
Its pretty obvious that there are people doing the "gay" thing because Hollywood has declared that to be the "trendy" thing to do these days. Some might actually believe they didnt have a choice, kinda like some people had no choice but to buy a Playstation for $3000, I suppose it was calling thier name at night. Unfortunately this "fad" is not like buying some trendy shoes, or maybe a certain hairstyle etc... this "fad" divides friends, families, and relationships. I really hope its worth it. Here is what I dont understand. If all these gays really didnt have a choice, then why is there such a disconnect between the amount of gays at age 70 and age 16? Where are all the gay 60-80yrs olds? Why are they not coming out of the closet in droves like the little enlightened 16yr olds? Are we really suppose to believe the average teenager is more in tune with themselves then the average senior? Seniors have all been deluding themselves for the last 80 yrs? Seems a bit far fetched to me.
I dont think its mainly a fad thing. IMO it has more to do with heavy sexual abuse, because of this the persons sexual boundaries are destroyed and their sexual identity becomes distorted. Then they act out and start doing thing unacceptable to society.
Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
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If they are a well adjusted family, then yes I do think many of thier family members if not most will also disown him. Much moreso then the parents actually.
Also you are not putting this into the context of criminal behavior is the problem. You keep ignoring the entire point of the arguement and trying to frame it from just one side.
If we replaced homesexual with CHILD MOLESTOR. Then would you still agree? Would it matter if the person actually thought that the entire family were wrong and that they should all molest thier children, and that it was his duty to try to convert them to his belief system? You really think the entire family should welcome uncle Bob the child molestor into their family with open arms? Maybe they should let uncle Bob baby sit the kids on friday nights?
Whats the difference? Its just a lifestyle choice that the family cant change. To quote PlanoMM "dont you think that its a bit immature to disown an adult for choosing to live their life the way they choose, just because its not what you would have chosen?"
Thats where my families background is rooted.Let me tell you about MY family.
My sister has NEVER dated someone who was not married.She even has a kid by a married man.
My brother has 2 kids is divorced.He has dated numerous women leading them on as to having a meaningful relationship.This would go so far as to actually bring 1 over for thanksgiving and then dump them on the way home.(seems they were getting to "close".)His kids are now 13 and 15.They both need braces for their teeth.He and his ex wont get braces because neither 1 wants to actually pay for it.
I was the blacksheep of the family.
I grew up as a punk rocker.Starting off in rehab thanx to my loving bro and sis introducing me to drugs and various other substances.I started off at the age of 10.So growing up i would just stay out ALL nite.I would go to downtown Atlanta to a little club called the Metroplex.The 688 club was frequented as well.
Meanwhile there were more than a few occasions i saw my dad drunk out of his mind.Remember he and my mother were both "popular" members of 1 of the larger baptist churches in Atlanta.Wieuca road baptist church.I saw her out of it a few times as well.
It is in the heart of buckhead.Look at the link the opening page has a shot of the church right across from 1 of the largest shopping malls in metro atlanta and it is in 1 of the more affluent areas of the city.Growing up baptist turned me AWAY from religion in general.
Now though is a different story.Currently i have been married for 13 years.Ive been with my wife for 22.I turned out to be more succesful in my life than anyone else in my family.Im covered in tattoos and im a practicing catholic.(pissed off mom and dad even more while i was at it).I work part time and take care of my daughter and i do what i love.I even do volunteer work locally.
Im not bragging please dont think i am.
I spent so much of my youth "underground" i met people from all walks of life.There was a part of town that i would go to back in the 80's was crawling with neonazi skinheads.I would walk right by them on the way to a Burning spear concert.Later on id be running back to my car with my buddies.When i was dating my wife she knew a lot of gay people.I had no qualms about going to a gay club.
What am i trying to say?
Dont sweat it.Sure it sucks your dad has abandoned you much less your family.Its their loss.Dont let it consume you if you do it justifies everything he has done.
A socalled true christian would not abandon someone they loved.They would merely accept who this "different" person is and attempt to live by example.
I hope the "cliffnotes" of my life helped give you a bit of perspective.
EDIT:Was just reading some of the postings above me.Sometimes a person is just looking for a bit of compassion NOT more prosecution.Just for the record my god is not vengeful.My god is forgiving of ALL sins.
What is your physical limit?
Sounds to me that his family has accepted him and moved on. They have agreed he isnt changing and have removed him from the family, as well they should.
Maybe this guy needs to accept his families beliefs and move on, and stop crying on these boards for attention. I dont see his family crying on these boards. This guy wants to do something that is obviously against everything his entire family has raised him to believe, and dont see why his family should show him one ounce of respect, he obviously doesnt care about them at all, do to his lifestyle CHOICE.
Homosexuality is not a choice you dumb -_-. Mabey my family should shun me because when I was a child I took a sip of her rum and coke thinking it was just soda?Thats exactly the point. His family doesnt want what he has to offer, which is more corruption and deviant behavior.
Homosexual behavior doesnt hurt anyone? Kinda like Drug abuse, Prostitution, and Alcholism? (notice two of those are actually illegal, and one is not illegal, much like Homesexual behavior?)
Its a proven fact that Homosexual behavior does hurt society, and recent studies commission by the Supreme Court have proven the following:
Homesexuals: Were more frequently disruptive, more frequently criminal, had a higher rate of drug abuse, took more sexual risks, were less frequently productive, frequently missed work, generated excessive costs (e.g., higher consumers of medical services), had a higher rate of mental disorders, more promiscuous and have a higher rate of sexual transmitted diseases.
As far as punishment / prison being for rehabilition only. Thats just blantly false. It is partially used for that, but there wouldnt be multiple life sentences if it was only rehabilition. The main use of prison is as a deterrent against criminal behavior in the first place. Prison is an effective deterrent for most people, and for those that are not deterred, they can go to prison, at that point they can try to rehabilitate and if that dont work they can stay there for the rest of thier lives, shunned from society.
I am sure if this guy was to go back to his family, SINCERELY renounce his past lifestyle choice, and people believed he would actually change his deviant behavior. Then I am sure many in his family would welcome him, much like any family with someone who had a relative that was a criminal.
In this case I think what he wants is his family to agree and accept his criminal behavior. Much like a child molestor, that way he could try to influence the kids in his family and try to convert them to his deviant lifestyle.
Lifestyle choice? Excuse me, but may I ask, when did you receive the illusion that homosexuality is a choice?Well lets say it is not choice (which by the way there is absolutely no proof to say that it isnt a choice). What if child molesters, serial rapists and murderers, were all caused by genes. Would that make them any less repugnant? Child Molesters have a recidivism rate of like 99%. All that tells me is that they need to be locked up forever so that they cant continue to ruin the rest of society.
I have seen studies that link most child molesters and serial rapists to sexually abuse as children. I wouldnt doubt Homosexuality is caused the same way. It sucks that happened to them as children, but the more you leave them in society the more problems they will cause.
Edit: I just googled Homosexuality and Child Molestation, depending which state the various studies were done, 66% to 90% of all child molestors admitted to being gay or bisexual.
In another study by Kinsey 25% of gays admitted to sex with a minor under 16yrs of age. This is disputed by the Gay Report which claims its only 23% of gays that admit sex with a minor (interestly only 6% of lesbians admit to sex with minors).
Pretty staggering numbers considering on a small fraction of people are actually gay. Yet are commiting most of the sexual molestation.
Well lets say it is not choice (which by the way there is absolutely no proof to say that it isnt a choice). What if child molesters, serial rapists and murderers, were all caused by genes. Would that make them any less repugnant? Child Molesters have a recidivism rate of like 99%. All that tells me is that they need to be locked up forever so that they cant continue to ruin the rest of society.
I have seen studies that link most child molesters and serial rapists to sexually abuse as children. I wouldnt doubt Homosexuality is caused the same way. It sucks that happened to them as children, but the more you leave them in society the more problems they will cause.
Edit: I just googled Homosexuality and Child Molestation, depending which state the various studies were done, 66% to 90% of all child molestors admitted to being gay or bisexual.
In another study by Kinsey 25% of gays admitted to sex with a minor under 16yrs of age. This is disputed by the Gay Report which claims its only 23% of gays that admit sex with a minor (interestly only 6% of lesbians admit to sex with minors).
Pretty staggering numbers considering on a small fraction of people are actually gay. Yet are commiting most of the sexual molestation.
Saying that there is "absolutely no proof" is downright a lie. its simply not true, It has not been fully proven yet, Thats true, but there IS a lot of evidence. I find it weird that you compare homosexuality to Child molesters, serial repists and murderers. the last 3 are a problem for other people. Homosexuality, on the other hand, does not affect people directly. You keep pretending like its some kind of "choice" that he made. If possible, maybe the OP could post the story of his past again. I ask you to read it and then come back here and claim that it is a choice of lifestyle.I also googled homosxuality & child mosestation, and this is the result:
http://psychology.ucdavis.edu/rainbow/html/facts_molestation.html
I sleep with a pillow under my gun.
Gameloading you usually have a decent arguement. But that was just lame. The site you quoted for one had almost zero actually evidence. It was just a blog about what people think. Keep in mind this is a university close to Sanfrancisco.
Whats worse is the evidence the site shows is a poll of what average Americans think, if they believe that Homosexuals commit more molestations then the average person.
LOL is this a joke. How the heck will average Americans know what child molesters are doing. All they know is what a liberal media tells them. The facts I show are actual studies of what the Child Molesters themselves are admitting too. Also another source The Kinsey report is showing what people who claim they are gay are actually admitting too. And the Gay Report a Sanfranciso based firm actually asks self proclaimed homosexuals in Sanfrancisco what they have done.
All your little poll proved is that the Average American is totally oblivious about how Gay's are Molesting our children.
Being a lesbian myself, I've recieved hatred, but not from my family. Infact, no one in my family even cares. Not my grandparents, aunts, uncles, cousins, second cousins, or my parents. And they all know, and they ALL ( yes, all of them ) told me that they don't mind. Funny thing is, most are christian.
So I can't relate too the family hating, and Im so sorry you have to go through it. I suppose Im lucky enough to have a caring and loving family that understands.
If you ever need anyone you wish to talk too, pm me.
---
As for Briany, why are you comparing us to bloody child molesters/pedophiles, murderer's and etc? We're nothing like them. And I don't give too shits about scientists or polls going around, those so called "facts" does NOT count for all of us.
Gee, I'm a Lesbian, so I must love molesting little girls and doing drugs!
Also, anyone who chooses to be a homosexual, really isn't homosexual. Not actualy attracted too the same sex. Same for bi's.
It's not a choice. I never choose to be attracted to other woman. When I look at a man, clothed or even naked, I get turned off and want to puke. So tell me, how is that a choice?
I've never known anyone to choose to be thrown out of their house, shunned, and hated. We're at higher risks of being killed by hate crimes than anyone else. We can loose our families, jobs, and even our houses just for liking the same sex as us. So please tell me why someone would choose that?!
If I could, I'd be straight. But it's not possible. I've tried, never worked. I get sick and don't even find ANY man attractive. But it's just not possible for me. So heh.
Independant, Shinto, Lesbian, and Proud!
Gameloading you usually have a decent arguement. But that was just lame. The site you quoted for one had almost zero actually evidence. It was just a blog about what people think. Keep in mind this is a university close to Sanfrancisco.
Whats worse is the evidence the site shows is a poll of what average Americans think, if they believe that Homosexuals commit more molestations then the average person.
LOL is this a joke. How the heck will average Americans know what child molesters are doing. All they know is what a liberal media tells them. The facts I show are actual studies of what the Child Molesters themselves are admitting too. Also another source The Kinsey report is showing what people who claim they are gay are actually admitting too. And the Gay Report a Sanfranciso based firm actually asks self proclaimed homosexuals in Sanfrancisco what they have done.
All your little poll proved is that the Average American is totally oblivious about how Gay's are Molesting our children.
It may not had all factual evidence, but it DID point out that many of those so called investigation (you DID read the entire article, did you?) May I also remind that you didn't bring any real factual evidence to the table either? You brought to the table that, out of XX amount of gays asked, XX molested children, and out of XX child molesters, XX was gay/bisexual. not ONCE did you bring any scientific fact to the table that these figures represent the entire homosexual community. not ONCE did you bring any scientific evidence that homosexuality increases the possibility that a person is a child molester.another intresting link for you:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_chil.htm (ignore the religious parts please, I have no intention to bring that up again)
But that aside.
Lets get back to the situation at hand here. I assume the OP does not mollest children. Your statement still stands, Brainy, that you agree with his parents to kick him out, because, according to you, it is a choice of lifestyle. Why would he make a decision to be homosexual, when being straigth has so many advantages, Lillith mentioned a few. and look at the past. People would get killed for being homosexual. Why would anyone chose for that? We have homosexuals here claiming that they did not make a decision. Are you sure you want to claim they are lying?
p.s. thank you for your compliment about my arguements. You will find my arguements in the off-topic section to be much weaker then the ones in the general section, because MMORPG's is simply the subject I know most about.
Well so basically if I understand this right. The main arguement here is that Gays cannot be compared to child molesters? So basically if they were considered child molesters then parents are doing the correct thing?
So the real debate here is does the parents have the right to feel that Homosexuality is equal to a child molester.
Its obvious the parents feel they are equal to some criminal element like a child molester. Studies show they are more highly likely then most to become child molesters.
I think the OP is not respecting his parents lifestyle choice. Which is to banish from thier society all criminal elements. Maybe the OP should abide by his families wishes and just leave them alone and take his self imposed punishments.
Tetsul I really hope you are not saying I was the "Christian" because im absolutely not. So please dont try to pigeon hole me into some religion debate.
To the Lesbian above, why you ask do people choose to be gay? Ummm well im sure there are many reasons. Im am not a psychologist, (however I did take a few courses in it). I suppose if you can explain why some people choose to be child molesters, murders, rapists, bullies, or any other criminal for that matter you might actually find your answers there. People do things for stupid reasons, please dont ask me to name them all.
I for one dont care if its a lifestyle choice or not. If I found out child molesting was not a choice, I would feel exactly the same about them also. Many people equal homosexuals similar child molesters, so unless your saying that people shouldnt treat child molesters in the manner the OP is saying his parents are treating him. Then I think we all pretty much agree.
@ Gameloading - I enjoy many of your other posts, you put reasoning and logic behind them, lol at least you did some research, most dont do any at all, and just follow like sheep. As for my main source, googled and this came up on top. http://www.familyresearchinst.org/FRI_EduPamphlet2.html
Weren't you Bi a couple months ago, and you just preferred women over men?
Wait, no, can't be possible. You were born a lesbian.
Sorry for the mix-up.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
Erm no, I wasn not. I was a Lesbian from the start, and that will never change. If I said I was Bi somewhere, than it was a mistake, heh.
And don't recall ever saying I was born a Lesbian either. Don't put words down that I never typed and than try too make it seem like I did.
No one is born straight gay or bi.
But that was a damn good try.
Independant, Shinto, Lesbian, and Proud!
I think Alot of us thought so because of a thread called I discovered that I'm bisexual started by Angyl... and you wrote.
LOL. My soda went up my nose when I read that. :d
Mm what shall I say?..
That one encounter isn't really enough to help you decide if your bi or not.
Now listen here.
I'm a girl.
I'm also bi.
I also prefer girls over males.
How do I know this?
Because Im attracted to them far more. Because I've been in "several" ( more than 1 ) situtations with other girls to help me figure out if I like them or not.
I suggest testing it out. Go to more clubs, and yes if you must, wear the school girl outfit again to attract attintion ( I have a japanese school girl outfit XD Uber hot ) and see if you like it or not.
Oo
My mothers a Christian. She knows. And she doesn't care. Why? Because I'm her daughter, and she loves me no matter what.
In fact, she thinks homosexuality is perfectly fine, even though she is a rather hardcore Christian. Her words to me were "Love is love, no matter the gender." Makes me wish everyone could say the same.
Hope this helps!
Note you also stated you were bi again in that thread..
I quoted two things... That you stated that you were bi... and that your mom is really cool and accepting for understanding you and not trying to force you to be something that you dont feel you are..
Edit: I wasn't trying to pick you out or anything... its just that I was bored and I thought as well that you stated you were bi...
What's your Wu Name?
Donovan --> Wu Name = Violent Knight
Methane47 --> Wu Name = Thunderous Leader
"Some people call me the walking plank, 'cuz any where you go... Death is right behind you.."
<i>ME<i>
I think Alot of us thought so because of a thread called I discovered that I'm bisexual started by Angyl... and you wrote.
LOL. My soda went up my nose when I read that. :d
Mm what shall I say?..
That one encounter isn't really enough to help you decide if your bi or not.
Now listen here.
I'm a girl.
I'm also bi.
I also prefer girls over males.
How do I know this?
Because Im attracted to them far more. Because I've been in "several" ( more than 1 ) situtations with other girls to help me figure out if I like them or not.
I suggest testing it out. Go to more clubs, and yes if you must, wear the school girl outfit again to attract attintion ( I have a japanese school girl outfit XD Uber hot ) and see if you like it or not.
Oo
My mothers a Christian. She knows. And she doesn't care. Why? Because I'm her daughter, and she loves me no matter what.
In fact, she thinks homosexuality is perfectly fine, even though she is a rather hardcore Christian. Her words to me were "Love is love, no matter the gender." Makes me wish everyone could say the same.
Hope this helps!
Note you also stated you were bi again in that thread..
I quoted two things... That you stated that you were bi... and that your mom is really cool and accepting for understanding you and not trying to force you to be something that you dont feel you are..
Edit: I wasn't trying to pick you out or anything... its just that I was bored and I thought as well that you stated you were bi...
Owned!I sleep with a pillow under my gun.
"Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."
I think Alot of us thought so because of a thread called I discovered that I'm bisexual started by Angyl... and you wrote.
LOL. My soda went up my nose when I read that. :d
Mm what shall I say?..
That one encounter isn't really enough to help you decide if your bi or not.
Now listen here.
I'm a girl.
I'm also bi.
I also prefer girls over males.
How do I know this?
Because Im attracted to them far more. Because I've been in "several" ( more than 1 ) situtations with other girls to help me figure out if I like them or not.
I suggest testing it out. Go to more clubs, and yes if you must, wear the school girl outfit again to attract attintion ( I have a japanese school girl outfit XD Uber hot ) and see if you like it or not.
Oo
My mothers a Christian. She knows. And she doesn't care. Why? Because I'm her daughter, and she loves me no matter what.
In fact, she thinks homosexuality is perfectly fine, even though she is a rather hardcore Christian. Her words to me were "Love is love, no matter the gender." Makes me wish everyone could say the same.
Hope this helps!
Note you also stated you were bi again in that thread..
I quoted two things... That you stated that you were bi... and that your mom is really cool and accepting for understanding you and not trying to force you to be something that you dont feel you are..
Edit: I wasn't trying to pick you out or anything... its just that I was bored and I thought as well that you stated you were bi...
Owned!uber owned
. so i see a conflict in your posts here, lilth. no offense, but you stated in this thread that you want to puke when you see a man naked. im straight, but seeing a man naked doesnt make me sick, and im sure most would agree with that. doesnt mean im bi. you said yourself that no one is born gay, most gays believe that you are, so if youre not born with it, what causes the change in pref? and if you change pref, wouldnt that be a change in lifestyle? and wouldnt that make it a lifestyle choice?
______________________________
Its pretty obvious that there are people doing the "gay" thing because Hollywood has declared that to be the "trendy" thing to do these days. Some might actually believe they didnt have a choice, kinda like some people had no choice but to buy a Playstation for $3000, I suppose it was calling thier name at night.
Unfortunately this "fad" is not like buying some trendy shoes, or maybe a certain hairstyle etc... this "fad" divides friends, families, and relationships. I really hope its worth it.
Here is what I dont understand. If all these gays really didnt have a choice, then why is there such a disconnect between the amount of gays at age 70 and age 16? Where are all the gay 60-80yrs olds? Why are they not coming out of the closet in droves like the little enlightened 16yr olds? Are we really suppose to believe the average teenager is more in tune with themselves then the average senior? Seniors have all been deluding themselves for the last 80 yrs? Seems a bit far fetched to me.
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If they are a well adjusted family, then yes I do think many of thier family members if not most will also disown him. Much moreso then the parents actually.
Also you are not putting this into the context of criminal behavior is the problem. You keep ignoring the entire point of the arguement and trying to frame it from just one side.
If we replaced homesexual with CHILD MOLESTOR. Then would you still agree? Would it matter if the person actually thought that the entire family were wrong and that they should all molest thier children, and that it was his duty to try to convert them to his belief system? You really think the entire family should welcome uncle Bob the child molestor into their family with open arms? Maybe they should let uncle Bob baby sit the kids on friday nights?
Whats the difference? Its just a lifestyle choice that the family cant change. To quote PlanoMM "dont you think that its a bit immature to disown an adult for choosing to live their life the way they choose, just because its not what you would have chosen?"
a well adjusted family has relationships with each other. they wouldnt just automaticly cut <--stress on the CUT, someone out of their lives just because they did something they didnt agree with, even if it was wrong. how many people go and visit family in prison? is that wrong, should they completely forget the wrongdoer? Family is all about love, man. if you love a family member, you can and will look past their faults and failures. Oo and im trying to frame it from a family point of view. since the start of this topic i have been asking people i work with, family of me own, friends and such what they think and/or what they would do. i have yet to run across 1 person to say that they think that the dad is right. not 1 person would agree with that point of view, ive even used your arguements with them, and everyone of them said that family is TOO important in a persons life to do that.
you say that we should replace homosexual with child molestor and see if we agree. interesting point, now replace homosexual with smoker, drinker, bought a gameboy with allowance instead of saving like you told him to. now whats your opinion? should the dad still reject said person because they decided to spend their allowance on a game system instead of saving it, like you told him to? where do you draw the line? i can 100% honestly tell you that if me kids ever molested children, i would still love them. i may turn them in, and let them stay in prison, but id still love them. i would visit them in prison. i may not trust them around children anymore, but i wouldnt treat them as scum of the earth and worthy of hellfire. youre using an invalid arguement, loving them and accepting them as your children or family does not equal condoning their lifestyle or choices. it does not mean that youre admitting that their right and your wrong.
and your quoting me doesnt change the meaning of me quote
, it still applies here. its a childish thought and action to "disown" a family member because they do or did something you wouldnt or dont approve of.
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if its sooooooo overpowering and overwhelming, how can they go to their graves denying it? unless its not as overpowering as its believed to be. i do happen to agree with this point, i do believe that it is an actual choice and not genetic, but thats another arguement altogether for me. me problem with brainys logic is the shunning a family member thing.
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Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!
I sleep with a pillow under my gun.