Ive never used any of the Mods... in fact my guildies get upset with me because I dont have a mod to read map coords etc when I want to meet em somewhere. So Im not missing anything. Overall Im happy with the patch.
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Originally posted by shae My view on this has always been and always will be, if you can't play the game without mods then you've got no idea what your doing.
Can and won't are two different things. I can play the game without my wonderful mods or I won't. The fact that they allowed these mods that we used for almost 2 years, then had them taken away is rediculas. It would have been better if they had never allowed any mods in the first place. It's SWG all over again.
Yes it's so completely idiotic that they ask you to play the game the way it's intended... so ridiculous!
But if your going to bitch about this for the love of god at least bitch about the right thing. It's not as if Blizzard all of a sudden told all modders they waren't allowed modding anymore, it's the modders that are not re-codding untill they see TBC. Is Blizzard making it harder for the modding community to make UI mounting and extensions? Absolutely not, but their also not going to hinder the games development to appease the modding community.
Again I say, if you can't play the game without the help of mods, you really shouldn't be playing in the first place. Mages and recursive are the really best example of this and if these people cancel I really don't see how that's all that big of a loss.
Originally posted by linuxgamer Blizzard also revamped the talents. Why are people on the WoW forums asking for classic servers?
Change will always result in a few players demanding a roll-back.
This isn't the first time that Blizzard has modified the talent trees. I'd argue that most classes were actually buffed in the last patch. For example, Druids (all specs) are now a viable hybrid class. Feral Druids can tank more efficiently than warriors, in some instances, while having enough healing to rank in the top raid meters.
Imo, the recent patch improved the game quite a bit.
Even those complaining about the 'Honor Nerf' need to remember that they're still able to retain honor from week to week. The rate of accruing honor has been reduced since the patch, but players, even 'casual players', can realistically obtain Epic PvP gear.
With respect to the original discussion, how can you have the expectation that Blizzard limit future development in order to maintain mods, which have stopped being maintained themselves? If you want to place blame, place it on the mod developers who stopped updating their code. As others have posted above, most mods have been updated or at least have been replaced.
As for mods like Decursive, many players have found macros that mimic the mod's functionality.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I cancelled my account, not because you can not use the Mods, kind of glad on that part, but becuase they have changed the ENTIRE mechanics of the class I played (Hunter) bust but to get to 60, get him geared up only to have them change the way he is played and the atrubutes he uses. To me this is the same as going out to E-Bay and buying a lvl 60 toon and not knowing anything about how to play him...
I might go back not sure, it also got real boring, same things over and over and over, spend hours in game and ignore everything out of game... that is the way to get to the top in WoW.
************************************************************************* If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors not his equals!!!
I think eventually Blizzard will make using mods very difficult. I don't they they will outright ban them, but slowly they will add UI features that mimic mods to encourage people to not use them.
I played WoW without ever using a mod of any kind. I never found any problem raiding, running instances or in battlegrounds due to using "only" the basic UI. I had a friend who used to be a mod fanatic, but she found the game actually plays better now that she uninstalled most of her mods. By better I mean her lower end PC had less gunk running now, so WoW itself played better.
I have also heard that a few mods have suspected keyloggers in them. This is of course could be just internet rumors, but it isn't a far-fetched idea either. Be careful what you download people!
Originally posted by DrowNoble I have also heard that a few mods have suspected keyloggers in them. This is of course could be just internet rumors, but it isn't a far-fetched idea either. Be careful what you download people!
Rumors started by people who are ignorant or who hate mods. Lua based mods don't even get loaded until you are signed into your character, so there is no risk of spyware there (using a .exe to install it would be another issue). Its only external and illegal bots etc. that would put you at risk.
Originally posted by dadown Rumors started by people who are ignorant or who hate mods. Lua based mods don't even get loaded until you are signed into your character, so there is no risk of spyware there (using a .exe to install it would be another issue). Its only external and illegal bots etc. that would put you at risk.
If you run a Mod that is an executable, meaning it runs in the background with WoW and is on before wow starts (Like UniLoader) then it could logg keys for passwords and such, the other Mods like decursive and such do not even load till your toon enters the world... Mnot sure what other programs are like Uniloader may be careful with them...
************************************************************************* If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors not his equals!!!
Yes that is the first thing many people say about keyloggers and mods "well mods don't load til WoW does and that's after password so I'm safe". You are correct the mod doesn't load til later but a keylogger would load before. Wouldn't be a very good spyware if it loaded after the stuff wanting to be spied upon.
Originally posted by DrowNoble Yes that is the first thing many people say about keyloggers and mods "well mods don't load til WoW does and that's after password so I'm safe". You are correct the mod doesn't load til later but a keylogger would load before. Wouldn't be a very good spyware if it loaded after the stuff wanting to be spied upon.
If you aren't running an exe to install mods, how could a keylogger get installed?? Legitimate addons are just Lua source code and are typcailly distributed as a zip file which you just copy the contents of into your addon folder. Such a Lua source file has no way to install a keylogger, so how is the keylogger going to get loaded??
Originally posted by DrowNoble Yes that is the first thing many people say about keyloggers and mods "well mods don't load til WoW does and that's after password so I'm safe". You are correct the mod doesn't load til later but a keylogger would load before. Wouldn't be a very good spyware if it loaded after the stuff wanting to be spied upon.
A normal Wow mod is just a Lua file. You aren't able to run anything "external" with it. And if you are unsure just open it up in notepad and read the code You will quickly see that there is nothing that can harm you.
Mods with exe files, that is another story, and if you are smart never run anything related to Wow in a .exe file, besides Wow.exe ofcourse.
Well the point I was trying to make is it is possible for a keylogger to get in with a WoW mod. By executable sure, but it is very possible that it could install elsewhere on the PC to hide itself. As I'm sure you know spyware does find ways to imbed itself in places you don't expect to find them.
If everyone just didn't use a mod then they wouldn't have any spyware worries. Oh and could play on patch day too.
Originally posted by DrowNoble Well the point I was trying to make is it is possible for a keylogger to get in with a WoW mod. By executable sure, but it is very possible that it could install elsewhere on the PC to hide itself. As I'm sure you know spyware does find ways to imbed itself in places you don't expect to find them. If everyone just didn't use a mod then they wouldn't have any spyware worries. Oh and could play on patch day too.
It's actually call a string pile.
A half intelligent coder can bake spyware code right into a non executable file that's part of a mod. The perfect example of this is a picture or an object that a mod add's to your UI. That string of code is imbedded into the picture and wont launch until the first you time you kick up WoW with the Mod Activated.
Once you do, it sets it's parent directory, pushes out the previously specified information that it was looking for and your screwed. Quite often it's your account and password, sometimes it's your friends lists, sometimes it has nothing to with WoW at all. Remember, when WoW is activated it carries a simple form of SNMP which does just that, manages your network protocoles. With this open, your IP, computer name and your home network is for the lack of a better word, open for attack.
Honestly, all this can be done with a very rudemental understanding of coding and negative string attachments and many upon many have been found in existing WoW Mods.
If your going to use a mod at all, it's always common and good practise to download from a respected source only and never second hand, from usenet or some other source you are not 100% sure of.
Originally posted by samanthax hi., i'm samantha a newbie., can someone help me?? how can i get this WOW game?? thnks...
Err, buy the game, install, play the game??
yeah.. i know that i will buy and install it.. thanks.. but there is so many pirated cd installer?? i want a original installer.. can you please give me a site or a store that sell a installer?? thanks.. sory cause i'm a begginer here
Originally posted by shae A half intelligent coder can bake spyware code right into a non executable file that's part of a mod. The perfect example of this is a picture or an object that a mod add's to your UI. That string of code is imbedded into the picture and wont launch until the first you time you kick up WoW with the Mod Activated.
I'll agree that its possible to imbed spyware code into a picture file, however, unless you can get CPU control passed to the code, its just inert code that just takes up dead space. Blizzard has designed the mod API so that mods run in an interpreted Lua 'sandbox' where it can't directly access any external data or call any non-Lua code. So how could the spyware ever get control to do anything?
Also, what are some of the 'many upon many' existing WoW mods with such spyware? I've examoned hundreds of mods and never seen anything like what you claim to be common. It sounds like FUD tactics to scare newbies.
Originally posted by dadown I'll agree that its possible to imbed spyware code into a picture file, however, unless you can get CPU control passed to the code, its just inert code that just takes up dead space. Blizzard has designed the mod API so that mods run in an interpreted Lua 'sandbox' where it can't directly access any external data or call any non-Lua code. So how could the spyware ever get control to do anything?
Also, what are some of the 'many upon many' existing WoW mods with such spyware? I've examoned hundreds of mods and never seen anything like what you claim to be common. It sounds like FUD tactics to scare newbies.
You know what, I don't give a shit if newbies follow my advice or not, I honestly really don't care if they or you think it's FUD, so whatever.
Best thing to do is inform yourself, I'm not a tutor nor am I your mother. You said you've examend hundreds (right) of mods and have yet to see like that well? Sorry but you've either been really lucky or you've just downloaded mods from a reasonable website that checks the sums on their packs.
Go to alt.binaries.wow (the bigger group), alt.binaries.warcraftpacks, alt.binaries.mods.warcraft, alt.binaries.warcraft.ftp.
Downlaod the headers and just the discussions even, you'll see hundreds of conversations of people discussing code, mods and pers files to imbed malware into wow mods. Again, anyone with the most basic of intelligence can find and work these things, this isn't exactly rocket science.
shae: I get my mods from sites like worldofwar.net and curse-gaming and would never consider running binaries posted to newsgroups... that's just asking for trouble!
Originally posted by Phoenixs Oh no they disabled the mods that play the game for me. Oh no!
Come on, decursive and the likes are not supposed to work, and I'm glad they finally disabled them. Even if I have used them for a long time.
Amen. Cry more...seriously. You know the game can be played without any mods just fine. People like the OP make me laugh. Whaaaaa I can't play the game without my mods now!!!
I don't say this all that often but, please STFU crybaby.
Amen. Cry more...seriously. You know the game can be played without any mods just fine. People like the OP make me laugh. Whaaaaa I can't play the game without my mods now!!! I don't say this all that often but, please STFU crybaby.
Um, some of us are not 10 years old. A legitimate consumer complaint is just that. A complaint. If you don't like it, there is no need to bash the consumer. Crybaby? You tend to show your age when you use those terms. How is your post constructive in any way?
Um, some of us are not 10 years old. A legitimate consumer complaint is just that. A complaint. If you don't like it, there is no need to bash the consumer. Crybaby? You tend to show your age when you use those terms. How is your post constructive in any way?
Oh that is right, you are flaming.
No, I just find it entertaining that people become so dependant on mods that they find the game 'unplayable' without them. There is nothing consumer related about it. Did you pay for these mods? Are they somehow incorporated into the monthly fee you pay to play the game? No, they aren't. They are programs people write to make the game easier to play (as if that's even nessasary).
It wasn't that long ago (maybe 7 years or so) when most people considered in-game maps cheating, as well as the people that programmed the game itself (EQ1). Just take a step back for a moment and try to remember when you played WoW the first 30-40 levels without any mods, and you did just find didn't you?
And please, don't comment on things you know nothing about. My age is irrelavant to the matter at hand here (I turn 30 next week, thanks though). It's funny, but I consider people that NEED to use mods to be the under 15 crowd. How ironic.
Tell me, what are you going to do when Warhammer is released? You may have to wait 1...maybe 2 whole months before any decent mods are released for it!! Remember, just breath deeply into a paper bag, and everything will be ok.
My 'crybaby' statement remains true here. If you don't like the game without mods, then go play something else. Blizzard has nothing to do with 3rd party mods. You are the one showing their age with your rabid dependancy on them. They are fluff, nothing more.
Looking over your recent posts here on the WoW forums Linux, I can't wait to read your next post. I'll be sure to have a box of tissues ready for ya bud.
You wrote all that to justify your flaming? Have you nothing better to do? Please write another 5 page essay on why flaming is good. People like you make these forums sour with your flaming and trolling.
No offense to remyburke or anyone else here, but the not having mod complaint is quite a legitimate one.
Go ahead, ask any guild who runs Naxx, BWL, or anything semi-challenging, how many times they did it modless.
Now, go back to them, especially the people who do 25 man BWL, and ask them, if they could really do it without having that extra push to give them a hand.
Sure, the mods make the game easier, but that's what they're made for. When i'm in a group with 19-39 other people, I don't want to have to look at EVERY player to see whether or not they have a curse on them. I would rather have a mod tell me everyone who has a curse by highlighting them in big purple border, so I can de-curse effectively. Things like decursing in time are make-or-break in some instances. When a curse reduces healing against the main tank by 75%, you have a problem on your hands.
Blizzard has never quarenteed continued support of any mod. That's the responsiblity of the mod developers.
As for Decursive, contact me and I'll provide you with a macro that offers similar functionality. My guild's healers have been using it, and everyone seems quite happy.
Ico Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Within 4 days of the patch I managed to get updated versions of ~60 of the 71 addons I use over all my characters.
The remaining ones are mostly stuff long dead, stuff which was integrated into the default UI now anyways, or things which were broken on purpose, like Lamecursive, erm, Decursive
If you cancel over that, I feel sorry for you. Over 90% of addons you can fix with a simple Search&Replace in the text-editor of your choice, btw
SQUEAK. --(The Death of Rats, Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)
When BC was pushed back from November to January, I let my account lapse. No need to explain that decision.
You mean, the "pushback" they never did? All the hypers and other idiots talked about November, Blizzard never said anything.
Just because a few 14y olds with no real life wanted to have the game in November Blizzard should actually release it unfinished and all? Yeah, great idea!
SQUEAK. --(The Death of Rats, Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)
Comments
+-+-+-+-+-+
"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
-+-+-+-+-+-+
"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Yes it's so completely idiotic that they ask you to play the game the way it's intended... so ridiculous!
But if your going to bitch about this for the love of god at least bitch about the right thing. It's not as if Blizzard all of a sudden told all modders they waren't allowed modding anymore, it's the modders that are not re-codding untill they see TBC. Is Blizzard making it harder for the modding community to make UI mounting and extensions? Absolutely not, but their also not going to hinder the games development to appease the modding community.
Again I say, if you can't play the game without the help of mods, you really shouldn't be playing in the first place. Mages and recursive are the really best example of this and if these people cancel I really don't see how that's all that big of a loss.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
Change will always result in a few players demanding a roll-back.
This isn't the first time that Blizzard has modified the talent trees. I'd argue that most classes were actually buffed in the last patch. For example, Druids (all specs) are now a viable hybrid class. Feral Druids can tank more efficiently than warriors, in some instances, while having enough healing to rank in the top raid meters.
Imo, the recent patch improved the game quite a bit.
Even those complaining about the 'Honor Nerf' need to remember that they're still able to retain honor from week to week. The rate of accruing honor has been reduced since the patch, but players, even 'casual players', can realistically obtain Epic PvP gear.
With respect to the original discussion, how can you have the expectation that Blizzard limit future development in order to maintain mods, which have stopped being maintained themselves? If you want to place blame, place it on the mod developers who stopped updating their code. As others have posted above, most mods have been updated or at least have been replaced.
As for mods like Decursive, many players have found macros that mimic the mod's functionality.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
I cancelled my account, not because you can not use the Mods, kind of glad on that part, but becuase they have changed the ENTIRE mechanics of the class I played (Hunter) bust but to get to 60, get him geared up only to have them change the way he is played and the atrubutes he uses. To me this is the same as going out to E-Bay and buying a lvl 60 toon and not knowing anything about how to play him...
I might go back not sure, it also got real boring, same things over and over and over, spend hours in game and ignore everything out of game... that is the way to get to the top in WoW.
*************************************************************************
If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors not his equals!!!
I think eventually Blizzard will make using mods very difficult. I don't they they will outright ban them, but slowly they will add UI features that mimic mods to encourage people to not use them.
I played WoW without ever using a mod of any kind. I never found any problem raiding, running instances or in battlegrounds due to using "only" the basic UI. I had a friend who used to be a mod fanatic, but she found the game actually plays better now that she uninstalled most of her mods. By better I mean her lower end PC had less gunk running now, so WoW itself played better.
I have also heard that a few mods have suspected keyloggers in them. This is of course could be just internet rumors, but it isn't a far-fetched idea either. Be careful what you download people!
*************************************************************************
If you want to know what a man's like, take a good look at how he treats his inferiors not his equals!!!
Mods with exe files, that is another story, and if you are smart never run anything related to Wow in a .exe file, besides Wow.exe ofcourse.
Well the point I was trying to make is it is possible for a keylogger to get in with a WoW mod. By executable sure, but it is very possible that it could install elsewhere on the PC to hide itself. As I'm sure you know spyware does find ways to imbed itself in places you don't expect to find them.
If everyone just didn't use a mod then they wouldn't have any spyware worries. Oh and could play on patch day too.
It's actually call a string pile.
A half intelligent coder can bake spyware code right into a non executable file that's part of a mod. The perfect example of this is a picture or an object that a mod add's to your UI. That string of code is imbedded into the picture and wont launch until the first you time you kick up WoW with the Mod Activated.
Once you do, it sets it's parent directory, pushes out the previously specified information that it was looking for and your screwed. Quite often it's your account and password, sometimes it's your friends lists, sometimes it has nothing to with WoW at all. Remember, when WoW is activated it carries a simple form of SNMP which does just that, manages your network protocoles. With this open, your IP, computer name and your home network is for the lack of a better word, open for attack.
Honestly, all this can be done with a very rudemental understanding of coding and negative string attachments and many upon many have been found in existing WoW Mods.
If your going to use a mod at all, it's always common and good practise to download from a respected source only and never second hand, from usenet or some other source you are not 100% sure of.
Just use some common sense girls and boys.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
Err, buy the game, install, play the game??
yeah.. i know that i will buy and install it.. thanks.. but there is so many pirated cd installer?? i want a original installer.. can you please give me a site or a store that sell a installer?? thanks.. sory cause i'm a begginer here
You know what, I don't give a shit if newbies follow my advice or not, I honestly really don't care if they or you think it's FUD, so whatever.
Best thing to do is inform yourself, I'm not a tutor nor am I your mother. You said you've examend hundreds (right) of mods and have yet to see like that well? Sorry but you've either been really lucky or you've just downloaded mods from a reasonable website that checks the sums on their packs.
Go to alt.binaries.wow (the bigger group), alt.binaries.warcraftpacks, alt.binaries.mods.warcraft, alt.binaries.warcraft.ftp.
Downlaod the headers and just the discussions even, you'll see hundreds of conversations of people discussing code, mods and pers files to imbed malware into wow mods. Again, anyone with the most basic of intelligence can find and work these things, this isn't exactly rocket science.
Important Information regarding Posting and You
Amen. Cry more...seriously. You know the game can be played without any mods just fine. People like the OP make me laugh. Whaaaaa I can't play the game without my mods now!!!
I don't say this all that often but, please STFU crybaby.
Joined - July 2004
Oh that is right, you are flaming.
Oh that is right, you are flaming.
No, I just find it entertaining that people become so dependant on mods that they find the game 'unplayable' without them. There is nothing consumer related about it. Did you pay for these mods? Are they somehow incorporated into the monthly fee you pay to play the game? No, they aren't. They are programs people write to make the game easier to play (as if that's even nessasary).
It wasn't that long ago (maybe 7 years or so) when most people considered in-game maps cheating, as well as the people that programmed the game itself (EQ1). Just take a step back for a moment and try to remember when you played WoW the first 30-40 levels without any mods, and you did just find didn't you?
And please, don't comment on things you know nothing about. My age is irrelavant to the matter at hand here (I turn 30 next week, thanks though). It's funny, but I consider people that NEED to use mods to be the under 15 crowd. How ironic.
Tell me, what are you going to do when Warhammer is released? You may have to wait 1...maybe 2 whole months before any decent mods are released for it!! Remember, just breath deeply into a paper bag, and everything will be ok.
My 'crybaby' statement remains true here. If you don't like the game without mods, then go play something else. Blizzard has nothing to do with 3rd party mods. You are the one showing their age with your rabid dependancy on them. They are fluff, nothing more.
Looking over your recent posts here on the WoW forums Linux, I can't wait to read your next post. I'll be sure to have a box of tissues ready for ya bud.
Joined - July 2004
You wrote all that to justify your flaming? Have you nothing better to do? Please write another 5 page essay on why flaming is good. People like you make these forums sour with your flaming and trolling.
Thank you
Let's take a look at some of your other posts on this forum. Why all the negativity?
www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/userPosts/73085
...Vanguard, your animators should be fired.
...if you are having fun with this steaming pile, more power to ya.
...Worst movie I've seen in years. If you liked this movie, you are either under 10 years old or midly retarded
...I don't say this all that often but, please STFU crybaby.
...The new site design is horrid. Change it back my eyes are bleeding.
...give your friends the finger and put your credit card away!
...WoW is a great game...until you hit 60. Then it all goes to hell. (I guess we can agree on this.)
Need I go on?
No offense to remyburke or anyone else here, but the not having mod complaint is quite a legitimate one.
Go ahead, ask any guild who runs Naxx, BWL, or anything semi-challenging, how many times they did it modless.
Now, go back to them, especially the people who do 25 man BWL, and ask them, if they could really do it without having that extra push to give them a hand.
Sure, the mods make the game easier, but that's what they're made for. When i'm in a group with 19-39 other people, I don't want to have to look at EVERY player to see whether or not they have a curse on them. I would rather have a mod tell me everyone who has a curse by highlighting them in big purple border, so I can de-curse effectively. Things like decursing in time are make-or-break in some instances. When a curse reduces healing against the main tank by 75%, you have a problem on your hands.
Blizzard has never quarenteed continued support of any mod. That's the responsiblity of the mod developers.
As for Decursive, contact me and I'll provide you with a macro that offers similar functionality. My guild's healers have been using it, and everyone seems quite happy.
Ico
Oh, cruel fate, to be thusly boned. Ask not for whom the bone bones. It bones for thee.
Within 4 days of the patch I managed to get updated versions of ~60 of the 71 addons I use over all my characters.
The remaining ones are mostly stuff long dead, stuff which was integrated into the default UI now anyways, or things which were broken on purpose, like Lamecursive, erm, Decursive
If you cancel over that, I feel sorry for you. Over 90% of addons you can fix with a simple Search&Replace in the text-editor of your choice, btw
SQUEAK.
--(The Death of Rats, Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)
Just because a few 14y olds with no real life wanted to have the game in November Blizzard should actually release it unfinished and all? Yeah, great idea!
SQUEAK.
--(The Death of Rats, Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)