Originally posted by nthnaoun I went from being truly hardcore, to being something else that doesn't have a definition in this article. I am now the type that has around 20 hours a week I play MMO's and I can raid if I choose to. But considering that I do have a child of my own in school and I am married, plus I go to college full time to change careers, I typically only play about 2-3 hours at a time. So I can raid like I said, but I would never be a hardcore raider. I also don't care about min/maxing my characters stats and abilities out. I tend to choose a spec and stats that best suits the type of character I am playing. When I say character, I mean it in a RPish sort of way. I will not choose a spec because it is the most powerfull, cookie cutter, or what the community expects of me. I may end up choosing a spec similar to what is popular, but I do it for reasons I come to the conclusions of myself, but a lot of times I end up choosing gimp specs, because that is what is fun for me. But in fact the spec aren't all that gimp, they are just not the best of the best (which elite gamers consider gimp). So I am a gamer who plays 20ish hours a week, can choose to commit to a raid and a guild or not, plays characters the way I want, not the way others expect me to, and I also play to have fun. I am not a slacker, I am not a reservist, I am not a casual, and I am not hardcore. I think I am best described as a Casualhardcore gamer with roleplaying tendecies with fun as my only objective. Titles, having the best gear over what looks cool, and everything else is secondary to me. So what type of game do I want to play? I like games that take a person like me the entire time until the next expansion to become maxed out in, even though becoming maxed out may not be a goal. So if there is levels, the game should make the grind steep enough for me to just get max level when the next expansion comes out to raise it that much more. If there are alternative ways to advance, like PvP rankings, multi-classing and etc, then I should be able to reach the hight PvP rank, have all my multi-classes and whatever other ways of advancement the game might have before the next expansion comes out. I should never be able to have my character maxed out and repeating the same content, nor should I have to reroll for something to do before the next expansion comes out with the amount of time I play and the way I play. Also, each expansion should provide a full years worth of content and advancement to keep me doing new things until the 3rd expansion comes out and etc. So in other words, there would never be an end game. My ideal game would be made as follows: 1. It would have a grind steep enough to last 9 months to reach the max level. 2. Grinding would be as fun as DAoC's was when you just found a camp and grouped up and leveled for hours on end. 3. There would be smallish raids that take no longer than an hour to complete that would provide resources and stuff for crafters to create the best armor and weapons in game, which would also be customizable and dyable so everyone does not look the same. 4. Months 9-12 would be for you to advance through the PvP ranking ladder and would be equivalent to DAoC's Realm Rank system. 5. With Each expansion they would increase the level cap and PvP ranks so that we always have advancement that needs done. Players like me would always have something new to do, while hardcore players will just master the game and finish all its content sooner like they do already, but then they can just reroll and do what they want. The casual players that play less than I and can care less about advancing to max level will always have something to do, because of the magnitude of things to do that keeps a person advancing for a full year. There would be just as many races and classes as there are in DAoC and more would be added with every expansion.
Originally posted by Vrazule I truly believe that once a game comes out that caters exclusively to casuals from beginning to end, they will discover the real financial power of the masses and they will realize that we casuals will stick around as long as they put out the type of content that we enjoy.
Ahh the financial power... at the Austin Game Convention, Parks Associates (a research group) released a study:
Parks Associates identifies six segments:
Power gamers represent 11 percent of the gamer market but account for 30 cents of every dollar spent on retail and online games.
Social gamers enjoy gaming as a way to interact with friends.
Leisure gamers spend 58 hours per month playing games but mainly on casual titles. Nevertheless they prefer challenging titles and show high interest in new gaming services.
Dormant gamers love gaming but spend little time because of family, work, or school. They like to play with friends and family and prefer complex and challenging games.
Incidental gamers lack motivation and play games mainly out of boredom. However, they spend more than 20 hours a month playing online games.
Occasional gamers play puzzle, word, and board games almost exclusively.
Traditionally ignored by marketers, the three segments Social Gamers, Leisure Gamers, and Dormant Gamers account for 53% of the Internet gamer population and 56% of the retail revenue, according to Electronic Gaming in the Digital Home.
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
Good article. There are always people on various MMORPG forums posting what THEY think a hardcore and casual gamer is, and it's always different with every person who posts.
It's good that MMORPG.COM has stepped up and posted well-thought out definitions that we can all use.
As for the Raider/Non-raider question, it might seem like there needs to be another category for people who play a great deal and refuse to raid but that is actually covered if you read closely.
If you're playing a lot but not raiding then you're not concerned with doing whatever you need to get that uber phat lootz. People don't raid because it's fun gameplay, they go through tedious, boring raids over and over to grind and get the top-tier gear. Those are the real hardcore by the article definitions.
But if you have lots of time and you're more concerned with having fun while playing (what a concept!) and that also means not raiding because it's not fun, then you are in the 'Slacker' side of the scale.
Perhaps the OP should have chosen a less unflattering term Maybe 'Fun-Seekers'? Though the term should be something that implies that these people still spend large amounts of time in game but not to grind.
How about 'Denizens' ?
That implies these kind of players spend much time in-game and it fits well because these are also the people who truly populate the open, shared world of a MMORPG (rather than always being off in raiding instances). They fill out the cities and make the surrounding scenery for the casual players more real. They accomplish this with activities like fishing or crafting or just hanging around the auction house, making the world more active and alive.
This category would also cover dedicated players that organize in-game events and other such non-hardcore (but more community oriented) activities. They're not the hardcore, phat lootz grinders, but they contribue to the game in ways that are really quite important. These kind of players certainly should be not be in a category with the title of 'Slackers'
They are the most visible players of the world because they are online so much even if it is as part of a crowd. You could say they are the real citizens of the world.
Denizens fits very well now that I think about it
Change 'Slackers' to something like that and I think the categories will be more accurate.
Originally posted by DemonOvrlord Good article. There are always people on various MMORPG forums posting what THEY think a hardcore and casual gamer is, and it's always different with every person who posts. It's good that MMORPG.COM has stepped up and posted well-thought out definitions that we can all use. As for the Raider/Non-raider question, it might seem like there needs to be another category for people who play a great deal and refuse to raid but that is actually covered if you read closely. If you're playing a lot but not raiding then you're not concerned with doing whatever you need to get that uber phat lootz. People don't raid because it's fun gameplay, they go through tedious, boring raids over and over to grind and get the top-tier gear. Those are the real hardcore by the article definitions. But if you have lots of time and you're more concerned with having fun while playing (what a concept!) and that also means not raiding because it's not fun, then you are in the 'Slacker' side of the scale. Perhaps the OP should have chosen a less unflattering term Maybe 'Fun-Seekers'? Though the term should be something that implies that these people still spend large amounts of time in game but not to grind. How about 'Denizens' ? That implies these kind of players spend much time in-game and it fits well because these are also the people who truly populate the open, shared world of a MMORPG (rather than always being off in raiding instances). They fill out the cities and make the surrounding scenery for the casual players more real. They accomplish this with activities like fishing or crafting or just hanging around the auction house, making the world more active and alive. This category would also cover dedicated players that organize in-game events and other such non-hardcore (but more community oriented) activities. They're not the hardcore, phat lootz grinders, but they contribue to the game in ways that are really quite important. These kind of players certainly should be not be in a category with the title of 'Slackers' They are the most visible players of the world because they are online so much even if it is as part of a crowd. You could say they are the real citizens of the world. Denizens fits very well now that I think about it Change 'Slackers' to something like that and I think the categories will be more accurate.
Perhaps time played per week should be the definition of hardcore regardless if one raids or not?
I dont care how good someone thinks they are, the word Hardcore shouldn't be associated with anyone who plays videogames, not ONE videogame in history so far has had the diversity, difficulty (and not just because of uneven odds), variety, strategy, depth, etc for anyone who plays it all the time to claim themselves "hardcore gamers". What a pathetic attempt to perpetuate an already pathetic mentality i.e. play video games (and crap ones at that) all your life. Its video games company's that ultimately benefit from us putting ourselves into little categories, not the player.
Originally posted by Rikkor I dont care how good someone thinks they are, the word Hardcore shouldn't be associated with anyone who plays videogames, not ONE videogame in history so far has had the diversity, difficulty (and not just because of uneven odds), variety, strategy, depth, etc for anyone who plays it all the time to claim themselves "hardcore gamers". What a pathetic attempt to perpetuate an already pathetic mentality i.e. play video games (and crap ones at that) all your life. Its video games company's that ultimately benefit from us putting ourselves into little categories, not the player.
I don't know why I'm qualifing this with a response...but here it goes..."whatever".
I find it amazing that you hardcores are always telling us casuals to come up with ideas and solutions to the lack of casual content in MMO's. Then when someone actually tries to get their point across, you accuse them of not being casual for coming up with a valid argument. Just because we're casual doesn't mean we aren't passionate about the things we do or the way we play. Sometimes the narrow mindedness of some players and many of the developing companies is staggering.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Hardcore, Casual, Regular and what else kind of gamers do we have, I feel that there are only 2 kind of gamers and thats real gamers and wanna-be gamers
Real gamers
People that report spam/buy/sell gold abuse
People that will try and explain that begging will dishonour your name or ignore beggers
People that will help equeld lvls with quests,dungeons,hunts,fun by doing it together
People who will defend their honor and will strike those who seem challenging or equel'd lvl'd
People that will come up with valid arguments/discussions that can help improve a game or try to make clear statements
People that try to get the best out of the game the way the game was ment or use their own fantasy to creat their own storys.
People that do not understand words like grind or twinks in MMOs
People understand that with serten ranks/lvls its logical that most will look the same (example would be our rl army wich in a way can resample ranks or lvls in online games,would be weird to see all soldiers wearing whatever they like??)
People that never will jump into a game if it is boring.
People that will not continue playing a game they do not like
Wanna-Be gamers:
People that spam/buy/sell gold for rl money
People that beg ingame for money
People that keep asking how a quest needs to be done at any lvl (reading a quest does really help)
People that ask higher lvls to help them at places they should not yet be at
People that love/like pvp fighting against someone thats about -10 lvls lower cause they are to weak or unskilled to challenge someone their own lvl
People that keep playing a game and keep saying that game sucks.
People that respond on game forums with senteces like : I do not like the article, without any backup on why they did not like it.
People that always will try and find the easy way to lvl instead of what gaming should be and thats fun and challenging
People that consider other people with multiple characters a Twink (very sad to see people using the twink word in rp games)
People that consider getting all sorts of stuff to survive in a online world Grind
People that complain about every character looking/wearing the same at serten lvls
People that get in a online game and say Im bored.
People that seem to be forced by someone holding a gun to their head forcing them to play a game they do not like.
AGAIN! Remember! This is my own personal opinion about gamers, you might or might not agree with me and thats okay everyone has their own opinion but I had to share my view on what gamers should be like
Interesting article and graph, I realise its not decisive as there are many variations on the theme and players are a so diverse its hard to classify, but would agree with the general essence.
For me as a 1st generation gamer, the meaning of hardcore is slightly different to second-generation players; hardcore is not just raiding but a complete immersion in game. If that is not the case how do you define "hardcore" players pre-WoW?
I also view myself as "hardcore" in one game but "casual" in another. That has nothing to do with life-style but more to do with the game itself, the state of the current market being an important factor.
For example; how many of the *casual" WoW players would become more "hardcore" if the end content was more involving.
Would be interesting to see a poll on the various thoughts of players and get actual numbers, not just for what gamers are doing now but also for what they want to do! As it is I expect we will have to wait a few years whilst the gaming world sorts itself out!
Comments
Ahh the financial power... at the Austin Game Convention, Parks Associates (a research group) released a study:
Parks Associates identifies six segments:
Traditionally ignored by marketers, the three segments Social Gamers, Leisure Gamers, and Dormant Gamers account for 53% of the Internet gamer population and 56% of the retail revenue, according to Electronic Gaming in the Digital Home.
Notice: The views expressed in this post are solely those of the author and do not necessarily reflect the views of MMORPG.com or its management.
Good article. There are always people on various MMORPG forums posting what THEY think a hardcore and casual gamer is, and it's always different with every person who posts.
It's good that MMORPG.COM has stepped up and posted well-thought out definitions that we can all use.
As for the Raider/Non-raider question, it might seem like there needs to be another category for people who play a great deal and refuse to raid but that is actually covered if you read closely.
If you're playing a lot but not raiding then you're not concerned with doing whatever you need to get that uber phat lootz. People don't raid because it's fun gameplay, they go through tedious, boring raids over and over to grind and get the top-tier gear. Those are the real hardcore by the article definitions.
But if you have lots of time and you're more concerned with having fun while playing (what a concept!) and that also means not raiding because it's not fun, then you are in the 'Slacker' side of the scale.
Perhaps the OP should have chosen a less unflattering term
Maybe 'Fun-Seekers'? Though the term should be something that implies that these people still spend large amounts of time in game but not to grind.
How about 'Denizens' ?
That implies these kind of players spend much time in-game and it fits well because these are also the people who truly populate the open, shared world of a MMORPG (rather than always being off in raiding instances). They fill out the cities and make the surrounding scenery for the casual players more real. They accomplish this with activities like fishing or crafting or just hanging around the auction house, making the world more active and alive.
This category would also cover dedicated players that organize in-game events and other such non-hardcore (but more community oriented) activities. They're not the hardcore, phat lootz grinders, but they contribue to the game in ways that are really quite important. These kind of players certainly should be not be in a category with the title of 'Slackers'
They are the most visible players of the world because they are online so much even if it is as part of a crowd. You could say they are the real citizens of the world.
Denizens fits very well now that I think about it
Change 'Slackers' to something like that and I think the categories will be more accurate.
Spiritglow
I find it amazing that you hardcores are always telling us casuals to come up with ideas and solutions to the lack of casual content in MMO's. Then when someone actually tries to get their point across, you accuse them of not being casual for coming up with a valid argument. Just because we're casual doesn't mean we aren't passionate about the things we do or the way we play. Sometimes the narrow mindedness of some players and many of the developing companies is staggering.
With PvE raiding, it has never been a question of being "good enough". I play games to have fun, not to be a simpering toady sitting through hour after hour of mind numbing boredom and fawning over a guild master in the hopes that he will condescend to reward me with shiny bits of loot. But in games where those people get the highest progression, anyone who doesn't do that will just be a moving target for them and I'll be damned if I'm going to pay money for the privilege. - Neanderthal
Hardcore, Casual, Regular and what else kind of gamers do we have, I feel that there are only 2 kind of gamers and thats real gamers and wanna-be gamers
Real gamers
People that report spam/buy/sell gold abuse
People that will try and explain that begging will dishonour your name or ignore beggers
People that will help equeld lvls with quests,dungeons,hunts,fun by doing it together
People who will defend their honor and will strike those who seem challenging or equel'd lvl'd
People that will come up with valid arguments/discussions that can help improve a game or try to make clear statements
People that try to get the best out of the game the way the game was ment or use their own fantasy to creat their own storys.
People that do not understand words like grind or twinks in MMOs
People understand that with serten ranks/lvls its logical that most will look the same (example would be our rl army wich in a way can resample ranks or lvls in online games,would be weird to see all soldiers wearing whatever they like??)
People that never will jump into a game if it is boring.
People that will not continue playing a game they do not like
Wanna-Be gamers:
People that spam/buy/sell gold for rl money
People that beg ingame for money
People that keep asking how a quest needs to be done at any lvl (reading a quest does really help)
People that ask higher lvls to help them at places they should not yet be at
People that love/like pvp fighting against someone thats about -10 lvls lower cause they are to weak or unskilled to challenge someone their own lvl
People that keep playing a game and keep saying that game sucks.
People that respond on game forums with senteces like : I do not like the article, without any backup on why they did not like it.
People that always will try and find the easy way to lvl instead of what gaming should be and thats fun and challenging
People that consider other people with multiple characters a Twink (very sad to see people using the twink word in rp games)
People that consider getting all sorts of stuff to survive in a online world Grind
People that complain about every character looking/wearing the same at serten lvls
People that get in a online game and say Im bored.
People that seem to be forced by someone holding a gun to their head forcing them to play a game they do not like.
AGAIN! Remember! This is my own personal opinion about gamers, you might or might not agree with me and thats okay everyone has their own opinion but I had to share my view on what gamers should be like
Interesting article and graph, I realise its not decisive as there are many variations on the theme and players are a so diverse its hard to classify, but would agree with the general essence.
For me as a 1st generation gamer, the meaning of hardcore is slightly different to second-generation players; hardcore is not just raiding but a complete immersion in game. If that is not the case how do you define "hardcore" players pre-WoW?
I also view myself as "hardcore" in one game but "casual" in another. That has nothing to do with life-style but more to do with the game itself, the state of the current market being an important factor.
For example; how many of the *casual" WoW players would become more "hardcore" if the end content was more involving.
Would be interesting to see a poll on the various thoughts of players and get actual numbers, not just for what gamers are doing now but also for what they want to do! As it is I expect we will have to wait a few years whilst the gaming world sorts itself out!