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any hard facts if EQ2 is growing or dieing?

ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

Well since I was invited into the beta I played EoF a while, after I had closed my EQ2 account some time ago. Most quests above LV45+ or so just got far too longwinded and complicated for me.

Anyway, I'd like to know if some people have hard facts, like subscriber numbers or such, for EQ2 and any serious analysis if EQ2 will grow or die. The addon beta looked really good, I must say, but when I went to my old servers (Antonia Bayle and Crushbone) most of the zones looked as Dead can dance: quite empty. Maybe it was bad timing, but all those places I once knew full of people where a bare and empty of players, like the Qeynos city zones, Blackburrow, Thundering Steppes, really depressing to see.

So, was it a coincidence? How easy/difficult is finding a group when you are not in a power guild, for instance? Especially when starting a new character?

Any impressions or facts?

People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

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Comments

  • shaeshae Member Posts: 2,509

    Well since EQ2 doesn't allow for any census type of software to run on their interface nor does SOE publicly and openly release numbers, it's very difficult to factually account for subscription numbers.

    About anyone can do is active research, mathematical equations and use some good old faschion common sense. While they are certainly not 100% spot on, you can go to http://www.mmogchart.com where Mr. Sir Bruce does his absolute best to make the numbers as accurate as possible.

    The charts show that EQ2 holds about 1.2% of the Subscription market share, even seconded to it's older counterpart EverQuest which holds about 1.4%. Of note, WoW holds 52.9%, Lineage 1 holds 12% and Lineage 2 holds 10.4%.

    On another page it shows the subscriptions numbers by quarter and it certainly seems that EQ2's numbers went as high as 340k subs and have steadily declined over the past two years to around 220k where they stand now. I think it's also of important note though that EQ2's numbers remained steady over the last 6 months and are bound to grow with the addition of a high profile expansion pack that's sure to bring in some fresh (and old) blood.

    I think the emptiness feeling of EQ2 can be attributed to a few things. Instancing is one, a big one if you ask me, the game is huge if not even a little too big with some very redundant areas. Another big one is that there is far to many servers for such a small population, Lineage is a good example of a game that has around 250k North American players in total yet only has 8 servers, 2 of which are EU.

    Will the game die in the future, sure it's possible, however probably unlikely. Vanguard could certainly give a severe hit to the game, as can other MMO's that are slatted for release but one could have said, and many did, the same about the original Everquest and that girl is moving along just fine still.

  • MoiraeMoirae Member RarePosts: 3,318
    It's never dead when I'm there. So I honestly don't know what you're talking about.


  • BakgrindBakgrind Member UncommonPosts: 402



    Originally posted by shae

    Well since EQ2 doesn't allow for any census type of software to run on their interface nor does SOE publicly and openly release numbers, it's very difficult to factually account for subscription numbers.
    About anyone can do is active research, mathematical equations and use some good old faschion common sense. While they are certainly not 100% spot on, you can go to http://www.mmogchart.com where Mr. Sir Bruce does his absolute best to make the numbers as accurate as possible.
    The charts show that EQ2 holds about 1.2% of the Subscription market share, even seconded to it's older counterpart EverQuest which holds about 1.4%. Of note, WoW holds 52.9%, Lineage 1 holds 12% and Lineage 2 holds 10.4%.
    On another page it shows the subscriptions numbers by quarter and it certainly seems that EQ2's numbers went as high as 340k subs and have steadily declined over the past two years to around 220k where they stand now. I think it's also of important note though that EQ2's numbers remained steady over the last 6 months and are bound to grow with the addition of a high profile expansion pack that's sure to bring in some fresh (and old) blood.
    I think the emptiness feeling of EQ2 can be attributed to a few things. Instancing is one, a big one if you ask me, the game is huge if not even a little too big with some very redundant areas. Another big one is that there is far to many servers for such a small population, Lineage is a good example of a game that has around 250k North American players in total yet only has 8 servers, 2 of which are EU.
    Will the game die in the future, sure it's possible, however probably unlikely. Vanguard could certainly give a severe hit to the game, as can other MMO's that are slatted for release but one could have said, and many did, the same about the original Everquest and that girl is moving along just fine still.



     I agree totally with the information contain in this post . While it is highly likely that you will find players for grouping now. But  come Jan and Feb of 07 there will be a host of new MMO's coming out. EQ2 will in my view take a significant player hit at that time.
  • YeeboYeebo Member Posts: 1,359
    If you think about it, even 200K subs is quite a bit.  More than most games will ever see, and more than  enough to keep the game profitable.  However I agree with Shae, I think the game has always had too many servers.  As soon as you steped off of the newbie island the game became a ghost town on the two random servers I tried.  I am a big a fan of soloing in these games (I usually play 75% solo, 25% grouped), and even to me it seemed lonely.  If I ever take it up again I'll likely run through the newbie island on different servers until I find one with a decently populated lowbie areas. 


    I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912

    Well I guess I am kinda spoilt. I played EQ2 since day 1 and recall how the zones where full with ppl. I levelled with the masses and whereever I was the majority was. And while WOW wasnt my kind of game, they have LOTS of players, and you see it. Most zones always have ppl running around at every possible time. I was riding thru Ant & CL and it was quite empty - ok it was early afternoon, but still.

    IMO EQ2 now is maybe a bit too solo-friendly. I solo regularly myself, but I had some eye openers. I recall there were those Scarecrows you've seen right when you got out of Qeynos, and back then they were Heroic ^^ so you NEEDED to group to defeat them; the result was, it was easy to find a group, because EVERYONE needed one. Now those same scarecrows are simple solo mobs, and naturally everyone does solo them and as a result it is pretty difficult there to find someone to group with you. I admit its difficult, because a lot of ppl have only time for soloing - or not the nerves for grouping, which is ok by me, but the result is a game with 100s of soloers eventually.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • PlanoMMPlanoMM Member Posts: 1,267

    i dont know if it will ever die, and frankly dont really care too much, either way.  im stuck on it and thats what matters to me.

    consiquently, just doing a search function right now in me current area on me other puter reveals 45 ppl in me current TOWN zone on Vox server.  thats just right now.  doesnt really mean anything, but neither would it mean anything if i did it and only found 2 ppl in me current zone.  Population flucluates from zone to zone and from server to server and from hr to hr.

    sry for the spelling errors.

    ______________________________
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  • DarktaniaDarktania Member Posts: 805

      If EQ 2 had more players back in the early days then I'm glad I didnt play back then. The server populations in my opinion are high enough as is.

      Though for some reason there seems to have been a large influx of new players lately. I've only been playing the game for about 3 weeks and I'm constantly running into other new players. It's funny because I consider myself a noob to the game and I'm running into even noobier people than myself.

    image

  • JMoney95JMoney95 Member Posts: 211

    Honestly I think EQ2 will be like EVE in regards to population changes, starts low, and slowly grows, not huge population, but small increases instead of decreases. EQ2 was TERRIBLE when it was released. But with all the changes it is a whole new game, and now I find it as being the most enjoyable MMO out right now.

    And server population is good. It's actually about the same as WoW, the most popular MMO.

    WoW has what? 1.5 million North Americans? Across 119 servers is about 12k per server (average)

    EQ2 with say 250k (a "best guess") across 23 servers is about 11k per server.

    It is fantastic to be able to play with Europeans etc also in EQ2, especially since I work nights.

    Should add that the zones may "feel" more empty, due to the huge size and not everyone crammed into the same crappy area for spawns or something. I havent played alot lately, since I've been watiing for this expansion, for the bundle pack, but my main experience is Freeport area, I mean in the commonlands the orcs for example are spread across such an enourmous area, not in some small camp with 15 guys trying to pull as soon as they spawn. And I've noticed people aren't as childish in channels so you dont really notice that the zone you are in has like 50 people in it. In other games (WoW, again, best example) you constantly see crap over the channels, and everyone crammed into the bank  / AH / certain camps. Seems more full.

  • Tutu2Tutu2 Member UncommonPosts: 572

    Like an earlier poster sad, SOE don't give out census stuff so no one can give you hard facts. But here's the experience of players on the official forums.  I no longer play EQ2, but when I did the world was so empty it was depressing. There's something wrong when you've got entire sites dedicated to flaming and bashing SOE, like EQ2flames. It just shows you that they're obviously doing something dead wrong and really pissing off their playerbase

    http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=134586

  • JMoney95JMoney95 Member Posts: 211

    uhh did you read that post fully? It's like 2 guys crying about EQ2 dying, and 50 telling them it's fine.

    So just because I post WoW is dying, it is true somehow? Even if everyone else says it's fine?

  • JMoney95JMoney95 Member Posts: 211



    Originally posted by Tutu2

    Like an earlier poster sad, SOE don't give out census stuff so no one can give you hard facts. But here's the experience of players on the official forums.  I no longer play EQ2, but when I did the world was so empty it was depressing. There's something wrong when you've got entire sites dedicated to flaming and bashing SOE, like EQ2flames. It just shows you that they're obviously doing something dead wrong and really pissing off their playerbase
    http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=134586



    Actually what sites like EQ2flames etc tells us is there are alot of emos and people with sand in their vaginas.
  • JorevJorev Member Posts: 1,500



    Originally posted by JMoney95

    uhh did you read that post fully? It's like 2 guys crying about EQ2 dying, and 50 telling them it's fine.
    So just because I post WoW is dying, it is true somehow? Even if everyone else says it's fine?



    http://mmogchart.com/

    Check out the 70,000 and above chart where EQ2 is listed, it confirms that EQ2 has lost half of it's high of 340,000 subscribers since launch.

    You can remain in denial but when Vanguard and other 07 games release, the departures from EQ2 will be increasing. EQ2 is not growing and will continue shrinking.

    image
    "We feel gold selling and websites that promote it damage games like Vanguard and will do everything possible to combat it."
    Brad McQuaid
    Chairman & CEO, Sigil Games Online, Inc.
    Executive Producer, Vanguard: Saga of Heroes
    www.vanguardsoh

  • Tutu2Tutu2 Member UncommonPosts: 572



    Originally posted by JMoney95

    uhh did you read that post fully? It's like 2 guys crying about EQ2 dying, and 50 telling them it's fine.
    So just because I post WoW is dying, it is true somehow? Even if everyone else says it's fine?



     

    Alot of those kind of topics were posted on the official forums, so obviously it's an issue.

  • PlanoMMPlanoMM Member Posts: 1,267

    Like an earlier poster sad, SOE don't give out census stuff so no one can give you hard facts. But here's the experience of players on the official forums.  I no longer play EQ2, but when I did the world was so empty it was depressing. There's something wrong when you've got entire sites dedicated to flaming and bashing SOE, like EQ2flames. It just shows you that they're obviously doing something dead wrong and really pissing off their playerbase

    http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=gameplay&message.id=134586

    ^this means nothing.  ppl whining, thats all.  it happens.

    Actually what sites like EQ2flames etc tells us is there are alot of emos and people with sand in their vaginas.

    ^wins the "funniest statement of the yr" award.

    http://mmogchart.com/

    Check out the 70,000 and above chart where EQ2 is listed, it confirms that EQ2 has lost half of it's high of 340,000 subscribers since launch.

    You can remain in denial but when Vanguard and other 07 games release, the departures from EQ2 will be increasing. EQ2 is not growing and will continue shrinking.

    ^this site has already been disproven many times over.  its a single guy that claims to have done his own census, yeah, very reliable, eh?  besides the info is outdated anyway.  and on top of that, u may not have considered this, but when Vanguard and the other 07 titles hit, the departures from EVERY MMO will be increasing.  yeah, thats what happens when a new game comes out.  even the beloved WOW will notice a huge hit on numbers, just like they do every time a new MMO comes out.  by the way, if u spend any real time on the EQII official forums, u will notice all the ppl from WOW migrating to EQII.  yep, its actually happening.  if u dont believe me, go check it out for yourself.

    Alot of those kind of topics were posted on the official forums, so obviously it's an issue.

    ur abolutely right, every kind of possible issue has been posted on the official forums.  from SOE is bold faced lying to us because they want to steal our children and rape our wives, all the way to SOE commits bank robberys in broad daylight.  I guess in ur mind if its posted in the "official" forums then it must b true, eh?  again, ppl whine, friend.  its something every (and i stess) every MMO company has to deal with.  they do it in FFXI, EVE, RYL(with good reason), DOAC, AO, and ur beloved WOW.

    ______________________________
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  • boognish75boognish75 Member UncommonPosts: 1,540



    Originally posted by Elikal

    Well I guess I am kinda spoilt. I played EQ2 since day 1 and recall how the zones where full with ppl. I levelled with the masses and whereever I was the majority was. And while WOW wasnt my kind of game, they have LOTS of players, and you see it. Most zones always have ppl running around at every possible time. I was riding thru Ant & CL and it was quite empty - ok it was early afternoon, but still.
    IMO EQ2 now is maybe a bit too solo-friendly. I solo regularly myself, but I had some eye openers. I recall there were those Scarecrows you've seen right when you got out of Qeynos, and back then they were Heroic ^^ so you NEEDED to group to defeat them; the result was, it was easy to find a group, because EVERYONE needed one. Now those same scarecrows are simple solo mobs, and naturally everyone does solo them and as a result it is pretty difficult there to find someone to group with you. I admit its difficult, because a lot of ppl have only time for soloing - or not the nerves for grouping, which is ok by me, but the result is a game with 100s of soloers eventually.



    there are 2 scarecrow fields in antonica ones are solo friendly, the other is not solo friendly, the 2nd scvarecrow field by the ts griff tower are heroic, the ones by the nq griff tower in antonica are not heroic.

    playing eq2 and two worlds

  • ElikalElikal Member UncommonPosts: 7,912



    Originally posted by boognish75



    Originally posted by Elikal

    Well I guess I am kinda spoilt. I played EQ2 since day 1 and recall how the zones where full with ppl. I levelled with the masses and whereever I was the majority was. And while WOW wasnt my kind of game, they have LOTS of players, and you see it. Most zones always have ppl running around at every possible time. I was riding thru Ant & CL and it was quite empty - ok it was early afternoon, but still.
    IMO EQ2 now is maybe a bit too solo-friendly. I solo regularly myself, but I had some eye openers. I recall there were those Scarecrows you've seen right when you got out of Qeynos, and back then they were Heroic ^^ so you NEEDED to group to defeat them; the result was, it was easy to find a group, because EVERYONE needed one. Now those same scarecrows are simple solo mobs, and naturally everyone does solo them and as a result it is pretty difficult there to find someone to group with you. I admit its difficult, because a lot of ppl have only time for soloing - or not the nerves for grouping, which is ok by me, but the result is a game with 100s of soloers eventually.


    there are 2 scarecrow fields in antonica ones are solo friendly, the other is not solo friendly, the 2nd scvarecrow field by the ts griff tower are heroic, the ones by the nq griff tower in antonica are not heroic.


    Well it's just an example, many mobs and places were made easier. And besides, I did not SAY EQ2 is dieing, I said it felt in some places like it would be dieing, I am not sure, so I wanted opinions of others. I vividly recalled how filled of people Antonica and TS always were, or Blackburrow, so I thought it might be nice to make a Fae and mix with other players in the old zones, only to see those zones where empty in those few times I went in and looked. Yeah in Ant where about 25-30 ppl but 60% were above lv 30 and so obviously bypassers.

    Btw how do you properly write "dieing"? It looks kinda wrong (non English here, heh)

    So I am looking for opinions and observations. As said, I didnt like WOW, but the starter zones of WOW were always full, even now, when I watch friends roll new characters, Goldshire and Ironforge areas are still crammed with ppl.

    People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert

  • CelestianCelestian Member UncommonPosts: 1,136

    Originally posted by Elikal Well it's just an example, many mobs and places were made easier. And besides, I did not SAY EQ2 is dieing, I said it felt in some places like it would be dieing, I am not sure, so I wanted opinions of others. I vividly recalled how filled of people Antonica and TS always were, or Blackburrow, so I thought it might be nice to make a Fae and mix with other players in the old zones, only to see those zones where empty in those few times I went in and looked. Yeah in Ant where about 25-30 ppl but 60% were above lv 30 and so obviously bypassers.

    The reason the zones were "filled' back then more so than now was because the average level was not 50, or 60, or 70. Now a LOT of people are above those levels so places will be less populated.

    At the level i play, 70s, there are a lot of folks to play with. I've
    leveled up 3, almost 4 characters to 70 and each time I saw the
    population throughout the game. Yes there are bare spots at times of
    the day but I got past them. I noticed the exact same thing on the
    WoW/Horde server (and I hardly think it has population issues) I played
    on so it's not just EQ2.


    I can't say if there is more people now or then because I don't have access to their records but I can say, if you want to "start off new" now is the time to do it. With the new race and new "starter" zones I expect there will be a lot more lower level folks for a while.




    I've been in EoF beta for a bit and really enjoyed it. I look forward to the release and all the new blood it will bring to EQ2.  The atmosphere in EoF is really amazing.

  • FlemFlem Member UncommonPosts: 2,863



    Originally posted by Elikal

    Btw how do you properly write "dieing"? It looks kinda wrong (non English here, heh)




    That would be "Dying", but we knew what you meant anyhow image
  • XandryaXandrya Member Posts: 59

    dieing = losing one's life.

    dying = coloring something with dye.

     

    Sorry, but I just couldn't resist that correction.  (My husband hates it when I correct his English)

  • FebricitoFebricito Member Posts: 4

    lol ... Flem is correct.

    Dying is the correct spelling. image

  • lomillerlomiller Member Posts: 1,810



    Originally posted by Febricito

    lol ... Flem is correct.
    Dying is the correct spelling. image



    Nope, Xandrya is correct.  Dyeing derives from the root dye, it’s the act of coloring some object.  Barring some difference in spelling in various regions, dieing is indeed the correct term here.  It just looks funny because of the iei in the middle, you don’t normally see that.

     

    (Edit "Correct" in that it is what he wanted to say.  But really incorrect because EQ2 is not dieing)

  • XandryaXandrya Member Posts: 59

    Ok, hehehe  You forced me to get out the dictionary on this one and I stand corrected.  Dying is indeed the correct spelling.

    Dieing = Using a stamping or forging machine to cut and shape metal.

    Dying = Losing one's life.

    Dyeing = Coloring fibers such as yarn or cloth with dye.

    /tip hat to Flem and Febricito

  • KnightblastKnightblast Member Posts: 1,798

    Originally posted by Celestian
    The reason the zones were "filled' back then more so than now was because the average level was not 50, or 60, or 70. Now a LOT of people are above those levels so places will be less populated.

    At the level i play, 70s, there are a lot of folks to play with. I've leveled up 3, almost 4 characters to 70 and each time I saw the population throughout the game. Yes there are bare spots at times of the day but I got past them. I noticed the exact same thing on the WoW/Horde server (and I hardly think it has population issues) I played on so it's not just EQ2.

    I can't say if there is more people now or then because I don't have access to their records but I can say, if you want to "start off new" now is the time to do it. With the new race and new "starter" zones I expect there will be a lot more lower level folks for a while.


    I've been in EoF beta for a bit and really enjoyed it. I look forward to the release and all the new blood it will bring to EQ2.  The atmosphere in EoF is really amazing.


    Hmmm.


    Ive noticed many, many, many more people in WoW's starting zones recently than in EQ2's.  Just for sh&ts and giggles I started new alts in each game a few weeks ago to do some anecdotal checking on this, because I was curious.  What I found was that most of WoW's newbie zones had a good deal of people in them at various times of day, whereas EQ2's did not.  This was both on RP servers in each game, so as much of an apples to apples comparison as I could manage.  It's anecdotal, but it leads me to believe that less people are starting new characters on EQ2 now than in WoW.

    Now, WoW has always been kind of unique in that its newb zones have not emptied nearly as fast as is typical for an MMO.  Myself I can't understand why someone would start a real character now with the expansion coming in January, but that's just me.  But as I said, I see quite a few more new characters running around in WoW than I do in the newb zones in EQ2.

    And yes there are a lot of ex-WoW people in EQ2, but to be fair there are a lot of ex-WoW people everywhere.  That's what WoW did: bring more people to MMOs.


  • XandryaXandrya Member Posts: 59

    Growing or dying?  Could the answer quite possibly be neither?    This isn't a plant you water and it grows, you stop watering and it dies. 

    It's a game!  People play for a while, get tired of it, have other things such as reall life that interferes with their playtime, move on to something else, come back when there is a new expansion, play that for a while, then move on to something else.  It's just the way these games are.  EQ1 has been around for 6 years now with players coming and going and I don't doubt that EQ2 will last at least as long.  The game is well designed and well maintained, unlike SWG was, and unless Sony makes the same horrific mistakes with EQ2 that they did with SWG (which I understand had a great deal to do with Lucas Arts), it will continue to be a healthy viable game for a very long time.  Comparing it to other games really serves no purpose.

    I personally have never played WoW and I really don't care to, but in my opinion, it doesn't much matter how well WoW is doing compared to EQ2.  It simply doesn't affect my enjoyment of the game.  I find it more enjoyable when there are slightly less players anyway because then there is less lag, less need to camp mobs.  I also really didn't like it when there were three instances of Antonica and you had to try to find your group in one of them.  As long as I can log in, find my freinds, or even 6-24 strangers that I can group up and play with then the game is still alive for me and that's all that matters. 

  • lillinlillin Member Posts: 207

    Is eq2 growing or dying?

    A question that is asked daily .................

    first ask yourself why do so many ask this question?

    Do your /who in multiple zones, see what that tells ya.

    Take into account ten servermergers.

    EQ2 in all honesty has died and revived many times although the dying has seemed more prominant then the growing has.

    In eq2 you have many types of players, when this game puts its foot down on which players its aiming for and for the love of god a combat system ............ then we can judge.  As of right now they keep swaying thier game design and has pleased and pissed off every type of player at least once.  So i hold this verdict when the game stops making major changes and sticks with something ............. then we will see if it rebuilds, holds, or drops population from its current form.

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