Originally posted by Tandil Those are some good points, but they are all advertising propaganda for the most part. Especially number 4, I can not say much due to the NDA so I will leave it to your imagination. As far as free flight, CoH had that long ago its not new. The boats, well I'll give you that one. It is a really good game but it just has too much of an EQ aura about it right now. Even the login screen backround is vintage EQ. Every time I sit here during the loading screen I have serious flashbacks of sleepless nights raiding in "The Plane of Time" with my guild. I am seriously hoping that the beta will fix that feeling of playing the same old game with pretty graphics and more races and a new class or two tossed in. Even the character models look vintage EQ with more body customizations built in, although they are no where near what CoH has for character customizations. If it doesn't it just won't have as big a following as they think. There will be a lot of changes to come I am sure since this is still early in the beta testing, I am hoping they take the feedback they are getting. If they take the feedback and use it, this will be an awesome game and I will be there from the start. If they don't take what the players are saying and keep it as it is, I more then likely won't spend the money. I played EQ from beta 3 up until two years ago, most of my guild and I wanted something new and fresh. Most of us have tried most of the games out there and nothing has really kept us interested because of the "same old thing with a better graphics engine" feeling. Edit: EQ had a 5 year plan, but SOE got it hands in it and that got turned and twisted so that point is moot.
Obviously we disagree even though we have both played the game... I love the combat and the classes but it is obvious you don't, which is fine.
COH is a completely different game then Vanguard. It is heavily instanced and has a completely different play style. I guess I don't see them as the same thing, yes they are both flying but it is in such different contexts that is hard to compare them.
I don't get how the VG models look vintage EQ and I haven't heard that before... and there are quite a few gameplay videos out at this point.
2) Taking travel to the next level. Boats that can go anywhere, flying mounts that can go anywhere, many different mounts, truly seamless world. These are things that aren't in current mmogs or things that have never been in MMO's.
While not necessarily a popular game Dark and light has this also, and was technically the first. (- boats)
3) Fellowship and Caravan system
Fellowship, no, Caravan , It was a requirement of the game. So 50/50.
4) Classes and combat are taken to the next level. The Classes are all unique and have really cool attributes to them and are all customizable. Combat is deep and requires real thought.
Speculation, and debatable.
5) Won't be in at launch but RTS style building of player cities is planned, sounds amazing. Guild cities, hiring guards, building outposts, etc. etc. is truly innovative but obviously going to be tough to do.
SWG, in fact, when they refer to it, they state "Like SWG".
6) 7 year plan to ensure consistency and steady flow of content. A.K.A. why EQ and SWG failed, they changed the game to much
EQ didnt fail. SWG was broken by bad management after Cities went live. SOE is responsible in both cases. But planning your game out years ahead is not innovative, new nor were they the first. Its a requirement for this type of games.
I could go on but these are the main things that I like and find innovative.
As far as people saying it will be a grind fest and that Brad McQuaid invented the grind is just completely off base. EQ had some grinding (quite a bit at later levels) but less than other games (UO) and was extremely innovative for its time.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Originally posted by Serenikill Yea I heard they are having problems with the beta system, as far as innovation, here we go :P
2) Taking travel to the next level. Boats that can go anywhere, flying mounts that can go anywhere, many different mounts, truly seamless world. These are things that aren't in current mmogs or things that have never been in MMO's.
While not necessarily a popular game Dark and light has this also, and was technically the first. (- boats)
3) Fellowship and Caravan system
Fellowship, no, Caravan , It was a requirement of the game. So 50/50.
4) Classes and combat are taken to the next level. The Classes are all unique and have really cool attributes to them and are all customizable. Combat is deep and requires real thought.
Speculation, and debatable.
5) Won't be in at launch but RTS style building of player cities is planned, sounds amazing. Guild cities, hiring guards, building outposts, etc. etc. is truly innovative but obviously going to be tough to do.
SWG, in fact, when they refer to it, they state "Like SWG".
6) 7 year plan to ensure consistency and steady flow of content. A.K.A. why EQ and SWG failed, they changed the game to much
EQ didnt fail. SWG was broken by bad management after Cities went live. SOE is responsible in both cases. But planning your game out years ahead is not innovative, new nor were they the first. Its a requirement for this type of games.
I could go on but these are the main things that I like and find innovative.
As far as people saying it will be a grind fest and that Brad McQuaid invented the grind is just completely off base. EQ had some grinding (quite a bit at later levels) but less than other games (UO) and was extremely innovative for its time.
First of all, your post is rediculous and ignore my points. It is obvious the only reason you are here is to get disinterest into the game.
1) The reason I linked to an IGN post is because the official forums were down at the time. The post is by Brad McQuaid so do a little digging. Here is the link the thread (which is also linked in the IGN post) http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1278950
2) I don't know much about Dark and Light but did not know they had flying mounts. But this isn't my entire point, they are making travel meaningful with the world full of content. Interesting things to explore, sea encounters, etc. etc. From what I have heard Dark and Light definitely didn't take travel to any new level.
3) Don't even know what you are saying... but other games have similar systems but not as well done or thought out.
4) Partially speculation yes, but definitely not as cookie cutter as the EQ2 model. I think WoW has fairly good classes... but not enough.
5) They compare it to SWG when talking about permissions for housing. AKA the customability to who you let in and lock out of your house. The RTS style building and advanced player cities is definitely new and innovative... but won't be completely in at launch
6) EQ failed, there playerbase dropped more than 75% in 2 years, they messed something up obviously. They changed the game so much that they scared away all the old customers and couldn't attract new ones due to competition. SWG lost a ton of its player base after a huge change in the game. Making sure this doesn't happen is innovative because it has happened to most big MMOs.
Originally posted by Serenikill Originally posted by Mrbloodworth Originally posted by Serenikill Yea I heard they are having problems with the beta system, as far as innovation, here we go :P
2) Taking travel to the next level. Boats that can go anywhere, flying mounts that can go anywhere, many different mounts, truly seamless world. These are things that aren't in current mmogs or things that have never been in MMO's.
While not necessarily a popular game Dark and light has this also, and was technically the first. (- boats)
3) Fellowship and Caravan system
Fellowship, no, Caravan , It was a requirement of the game. So 50/50.
4) Classes and combat are taken to the next level. The Classes are all unique and have really cool attributes to them and are all customizable. Combat is deep and requires real thought.
Speculation, and debatable.
5) Won't be in at launch but RTS style building of player cities is planned, sounds amazing. Guild cities, hiring guards, building outposts, etc. etc. is truly innovative but obviously going to be tough to do.
SWG, in fact, when they refer to it, they state "Like SWG".
6) 7 year plan to ensure consistency and steady flow of content. A.K.A. why EQ and SWG failed, they changed the game to much
EQ didnt fail. SWG was broken by bad management after Cities went live. SOE is responsible in both cases. But planning your game out years ahead is not innovative, new nor were they the first. Its a requirement for this type of games.
I could go on but these are the main things that I like and find innovative.
As far as people saying it will be a grind fest and that Brad McQuaid invented the grind is just completely off base. EQ had some grinding (quite a bit at later levels) but less than other games (UO) and was extremely innovative for its time.
First of all, your post is rediculous and ignore my points. It is obvious the only reason you are here is to get disinterest into the game.
Yah man, sure.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Massive world, bigger than any other MMORP, all hand crafted (not randomly computer generated).
Advanced encounter system, solution to instancing (and seperating players from interacting).
Four spheres of advancement: adventuring, harvesting, crafting, diplomacy. Most I have ever seen is two in Horizons. I dont count games that have a simple skill and receipes as a proper crafting sphere, more a joke.
Caravan system - Follow your party members around whilst offline.
Fellowship system - Share xp with your friends so no one gets left behind in levels.
As for other stuff, seen it in other games but not all together in one game and as a combination very unique:
1. Land, Sea and Air mounts (many games had one or two of these, not sure if DnL has boats), no rails. - Includes different types of Land mounts from Camels, Unicorns and dire wolf (can't remember exact name) to horses. - Different boats such as small Coast huggers and large sea vessels to ship of the line. - I have seen video for two types of flying mount. Basic premise is you can fly anywhere in the world (unlike WoW and only the new expansion area). 2. Massive seemless world (DnL, and Horions). 3. Playing housing and not instanced. (Horizons, SWG) 4. Guild villages run by diplomates (SWG) 5. Sympathics and combat chains to improve the combat experience (EQ2 is vaguely near to this but completely different systems). 6. Craft unique items (EQ2 has something like this). 7. Adventuring has 4 Archtypes and with roughly 4 sub types of each = 16 uniquely playable classes (they have gone out of their way to make each class play uniquely). Archtypes are: Defensive Fighter, Offensive Fighter, Healer and Magic User. (Nearest game to this is EQ2) 8. 18 ish playable races, for a starting game thats a lot, spread across three continents each with a different style: Western, Oriental and Arab. (Nearest game to this is EQ2)
They also have plans for 7 years of expansions that include: 1. Under world, a huge area based under ground. 2. Atlantis styled city and adventuring area. 3. Sky city and adventuring area. 4. A massive continent bigger than anything ever seen before.
This game offers a lot, sure some of it has been done before but never seen any game attempt to do all of it.
As for innovation, the market has matured so much over the years, its very very difficult to do something innovative that works without pointing to some game in the past that has already done it.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Thanks metalcore, that is by far and away the most informative post I've read on this site!
Now, I'll have to lookup the fellowship system - a system like this was one big big reason I was looking at Hero's Journey.
Currently Playing:GW2 Currently Following:Elder Scrolls Online Games in my wake:Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Originally posted by EliasThorne Thanks metalcore, that is by far and away the most informative post I've read on this site! Now, I'll have to lookup the fellowship system - a system like this was one big big reason I was looking at Hero's Journey.
Didn't realise Hero's Journey will have the same sort of system, will have to do some more reading
If you want more information on the classes and archetypes, there is a link on the main vanguard site to an audio interview of 45 minutes which goes into a lot of detail.
Fingers crossed this game will deliver.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Originally posted by metalcore Diplomacy is the first one, obvious.Massive world, bigger than any other MMORP, all hand crafted (not randomly computer generated).Advanced encounter system, solution to instancing (and seperating players from interacting).Four spheres of advancement: adventuring, harvesting, crafting, diplomacy. Most I have ever seen is two in Horizons. I dont count games that have a simple skill and receipes as a proper crafting sphere, more a joke.Caravan system - Follow your party members around whilst offline.Fellowship system - Share xp with your friends so no one gets left behind in levels. As for other stuff, seen it in other games but not all together in one game and as a combination very unique:1. Land, Sea and Air mounts (many games had one or two of these, not sure if DnL has boats), no rails. - Includes different types of Land mounts from Camels, Unicorns and dire wolf (can't remember exact name) to horses. - Different boats such as small Coast huggers and large sea vessels to ship of the line. - I have seen video for two types of flying mount. Basic premise is you can fly anywhere in the world (unlike WoW and only the new expansion area). 2. Massive seemless world (DnL, and Horions). 3. Playing housing and not instanced. (Horizons, SWG) 4. Guild villages run by diplomates (SWG) 5. Sympathics and combat chains to improve the combat experience (EQ2 is vaguely near to this but completely different systems). 6. Craft unique items (EQ2 has something like this). 7. Adventuring has 4 Archtypes and with roughly 4 sub types of each = 16 uniquely playable classes (they have gone out of their way to make each class play uniquely). Archtypes are: Defensive Fighter, Offensive Fighter, Healer and Magic User. (Nearest game to this is EQ2) 8. 18 ish playable races, for a starting game thats a lot, spread across three continents each with a different style: Western, Oriental and Arab. (Nearest game to this is EQ2) They also have plans for 7 years of expansions that include: 1. Under world, a huge area based under ground. 2. Atlantis styled city and adventuring area. 3. Sky city and adventuring area. 4. A massive continent bigger than anything ever seen before. This game offers a lot, sure some of it has been done before but never seen any game attempt to do all of it.As for innovation, the market has matured so much over the years, its very very difficult to do something innovative that works without pointing to some game in the past that has already done it.
Great post.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS) Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Comments
COH is a completely different game then Vanguard. It is heavily instanced and has a completely different play style. I guess I don't see them as the same thing, yes they are both flying but it is in such different contexts that is hard to compare them.
I don't get how the VG models look vintage EQ and I haven't heard that before... and there are quite a few gameplay videos out at this point.
Well, I can agree to disagree
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
First of all, your post is rediculous and ignore my points. It is obvious the only reason you are here is to get disinterest into the game.
1) The reason I linked to an IGN post is because the official forums were down at the time. The post is by Brad McQuaid so do a little digging. Here is the link the thread (which is also linked in the IGN post) http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1278950
2) I don't know much about Dark and Light but did not know they had flying mounts. But this isn't my entire point, they are making travel meaningful with the world full of content. Interesting things to explore, sea encounters, etc. etc. From what I have heard Dark and Light definitely didn't take travel to any new level.
3) Don't even know what you are saying... but other games have similar systems but not as well done or thought out.
4) Partially speculation yes, but definitely not as cookie cutter as the EQ2 model. I think WoW has fairly good classes... but not enough.
5) They compare it to SWG when talking about permissions for housing. AKA the customability to who you let in and lock out of your house. The RTS style building and advanced player cities is definitely new and innovative... but won't be completely in at launch
6) EQ failed, there playerbase dropped more than 75% in 2 years, they messed something up obviously. They changed the game so much that they scared away all the old customers and couldn't attract new ones due to competition. SWG lost a ton of its player base after a huge change in the game. Making sure this doesn't happen is innovative because it has happened to most big MMOs.
First of all, your post is rediculous and ignore my points. It is obvious the only reason you are here is to get disinterest into the game.
Yah man, sure.
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Yah man, sure.
Either that or you are misinformed and don't seem to be taking wll to me informing you.
BTW: What are you saying by chopping most of my post off in the quote and not actually responding to the meat of it?
A game doesn't need anything brand new to become popular (see: WoW).
They can just polish more than WoW, and make it a longer grind, and I'll be happy.
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.
Diplomacy is the first one, obvious.
Massive world, bigger than any other MMORP, all hand crafted (not randomly computer generated).
Advanced encounter system, solution to instancing (and seperating players from interacting).
Four spheres of advancement: adventuring, harvesting, crafting, diplomacy. Most I have ever seen is two in Horizons. I dont count games that have a simple skill and receipes as a proper crafting sphere, more a joke.
Caravan system - Follow your party members around whilst offline.
Fellowship system - Share xp with your friends so no one gets left behind in levels.
As for other stuff, seen it in other games but not all together in one game and as a combination very unique:
1. Land, Sea and Air mounts (many games had one or two of these, not sure if DnL has boats), no rails.
- Includes different types of Land mounts from Camels, Unicorns and dire wolf (can't remember exact name) to horses.
- Different boats such as small Coast huggers and large sea vessels to ship of the line.
- I have seen video for two types of flying mount. Basic premise is you can fly anywhere in the world (unlike WoW and only the new expansion area).
2. Massive seemless world (DnL, and Horions).
3. Playing housing and not instanced. (Horizons, SWG)
4. Guild villages run by diplomates (SWG)
5. Sympathics and combat chains to improve the combat experience (EQ2 is vaguely near to this but completely different systems).
6. Craft unique items (EQ2 has something like this).
7. Adventuring has 4 Archtypes and with roughly 4 sub types of each = 16 uniquely playable classes (they have gone out of their way to make each class play uniquely). Archtypes are: Defensive Fighter, Offensive Fighter, Healer and Magic User. (Nearest game to this is EQ2)
8. 18 ish playable races, for a starting game thats a lot, spread across three continents each with a different style: Western, Oriental and Arab. (Nearest game to this is EQ2)
They also have plans for 7 years of expansions that include:
1. Under world, a huge area based under ground.
2. Atlantis styled city and adventuring area.
3. Sky city and adventuring area.
4. A massive continent bigger than anything ever seen before.
This game offers a lot, sure some of it has been done before but never seen any game attempt to do all of it.
As for innovation, the market has matured so much over the years, its very very difficult to do something innovative that works without pointing to some game in the past that has already done it.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
Now, I'll have to lookup the fellowship system - a system like this was one big big reason I was looking at Hero's Journey.
Currently Playing: GW2
Currently Following: Elder Scrolls Online
Games in my wake: Anarchy Online, Archlord (beta), Asherons Call, Asherons Call 2, City of Heroes, Dark Age of Camelot (SI to Catacombs), DDO, EVE Online, EverQuest II (beta), Guild Wars, Horizons, Lineage II,LORTO, Rift, RF Online (beta), RYL, Saga of Ryzon, Shadowbane, Star Wars Galaxies, Vanguard, WAR, WoW
Didn't realise Hero's Journey will have the same sort of system, will have to do some more reading
If you want more information on the classes and archetypes, there is a link on the main vanguard site to an audio interview of 45 minutes which goes into a lot of detail.
Fingers crossed this game will deliver.
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve
----------
"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
For anyone interested they just added a great voice over video, explaining all the various details of Vanguard.
New Video click here
Now playing: VG (after a long break from MMORPGS)
Played for more than a month: Darkfall online, Vanguard SOH, Everquest, Horizons, WoW, SWG, Everquest II, Eve