If this post disturbes you. What do you think youres do? I try to keep peoples spirit up about a game. Youre bitching on people trying to be possitive.
Your response comes accross as counter-productive to me.
Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by achellis yeah but some of the most rare will come from raids
Which is why I will only buy the game if there is a raid-free server that award this loot in any non-raiding way, grouping preferably, but anything honestly, even the dreaded and evil PvP.
I know more peoples who dislike or plainly hate raiding than peoples accepting to raid...
This game is primarily focused on grouping, from beginning to end. WoW is grouping until the end when it turns into a rading game. This game is Grouping, a lot of the best items in the game will come from grouping. Also, you will be able to get top tier items from soloing, questing, crafting, diplomacy and a mix of all of the above. The game will be approximately 20-60-20, 20% solo, 60% group, 20% raiding. I can assure you they won't have a raid-free server as there won't be a demand for one... I have never heard of it before in fact. I don't see why you don't want the content at all. At least other people can participate in it, you don't have to, ever! It won't be like WoW or EQ or EQ2 or any other game at end game.
Originally posted by Serenikill Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by achellis yeah but some of the most rare will come from raids
Which is why I will only buy the game if there is a raid-free server that award this loot in any non-raiding way, grouping preferably, but anything honestly, even the dreaded and evil PvP.
I know more peoples who dislike or plainly hate raiding than peoples accepting to raid...
This game is primarily focused on grouping, from beginning to end. WoW is grouping until the end when it turns into a rading game. This game is Grouping, a lot of the best items in the game will come from grouping. Also, you will be able to get top tier items from soloing, questing, crafting, diplomacy and a mix of all of the above. The game will be approximately 20-60-20, 20% solo, 60% group, 20% raiding. I can assure you they won't have a raid-free server as there won't be a demand for one... I have never heard of it before in fact. I don't see why you don't want the content at all. At least other people can participate in it, you don't have to, ever! It won't be like WoW or EQ or EQ2 or any other game at end game.
Which is why I will only buy the game if there is a raid-free server that award this loot in any non-raiding way, grouping preferably, but anything honestly, even the dreaded and evil PvP.
I know more peoples who dislike or plainly hate raiding than peoples accepting to raid...
This game is primarily focused on grouping, from beginning to end. WoW is grouping until the end when it turns into a rading game. This game is Grouping, a lot of the best items in the game will come from grouping. Also, you will be able to get top tier items from soloing, questing, crafting, diplomacy and a mix of all of the above. The game will be approximately 20-60-20, 20% solo, 60% group, 20% raiding. I can assure you they won't have a raid-free server as there won't be a demand for one... I have never heard of it before in fact. I don't see why you don't want the content at all. At least other people can participate in it, you don't have to, ever! It won't be like WoW or EQ or EQ2 or any other game at end game.
No amount of promises, of talking, or otherwise intangible talking will work. I am raid-burned, this is a permanent status. If there is raiding-enforced(even only 1 to 20%), I ain't playing the game, 1 enforced raiding = too much. No talk, no promise will change that fact, unless it is a raid-free server. And raid-loot has to be earnable by any non-raiding means on such a server, be it a merchant, group or whatever. 20% enforcing socialising with Uber-jerks, no thanks for the whole game.
They already promise me a LOT in EQ and EQ2, I don't trust anything short of raid-free...and I am sure I ain't alone or a tiny minority, I am pretty sure we outnumber the raider at 3 to 1 easily...prolly outnumber them a LOT more than 3 to 1. Without a raid-free servers, I am pretty sure this game never reach 100k subscribers.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by achellis what ever than kid dont play the game if you dont want to raid
That is exactly what is going to happen, unless they bring a raid-free server.
I am doing them a favor by repeating it here, giving them a chance to adapt. They are free to adapt...or not. Most peoples just don't care and stick with other games. You see my arguments as "annoying", while all I try to do, is to help them adapt, and make a raid-free server, which would help their game a LOT. And don't tell me it is massive work, it isn't.
A raid-free server can be running and up in no time, with minimal crew behind. To minimize the work, you just put the raid-loot onto another method that doesn't involve raiding at all, such as a merchant (worst case scenario here is the merchant, which is still fine), you don't even need to remove raid-stuff, as long as the rewards, on these servers, are earnable in another way that everyone consider "easier" (or you remove them from raiding targets if you can't make it "easier"), then you may at your leisure make any grouping content harder to earn...or not.
Again, peoples see me as "an opponent", while in fact, I try to help them, make a cool game, in my own way, which is insisting on the raid-free component. Peoples who are raid-burned are more numerous than you think.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Anofalye .Originally posted by achellis what ever than kid dont play the game if you dont want to raid
That is exactly what is going to happen, unless they bring a raid-free server. ...
I can respect your position Anofalye, especially since you are consistent in other game forums as well (Age of Conan for instance). I am curious about one thing though. Are there any current games that are raid-free, or any upcoming games that are advertising to be raid-free?
I'm not a big fan of raiding either, but it doesn't bother me as much as it does you (it would seem); to "miss out" on the content offered inside of raiding. I never even finish the content outside of raiding.
I would be interested in learning about any such game that doesn't have raiding in it though. Thanks for the info.
That is exactly what is going to happen, unless they bring a raid-free server. ...
I can respect your position Anofalye, especially since you are consistent in other game forums as well (Age of Conan for instance). I am curious about one thing though. Are there any current games that are raid-free, or any upcoming games that are advertising to be raid-free?
I'm not a big fan of raiding either, but it doesn't bother me as much as it does you (it would seem); to "miss out" on the content offered inside of raiding. I never even finish the content outside of raiding.
I would be interested in learning about any such game that doesn't have raiding in it though. Thanks for the info.
Well, that is also a big reason why devs should be earger to make a raid-free server, raid-free MMOs are EXTREMELY rare. Most games are raid-free, but most MMOs are having raiding enforced feature...If I have to turn away from MMOs to be free of raiding, I will.
ATM, from my humble knowledge, only CoV is raid-free, not even CoH. And this may change with every patch they bring, or may never change. CoV is also not advertising anything about raiding or not, thereby they are not gaining the benefits from such a stance, as most players have no idea...we don't know how it will evolves, and the Hamidon from CoH is certainly draining away all benefits they could gain from a currently ambigous situation. Not to forget that in CoV, you are not free from PvP, it is enforced on you with IoP, shivans, nukes, badges for accolades...
Heroes Journey promise that you can progress your toon "FULLY" without raiding ever once. Raiding will prolly be present, but it will not grant ANY item specifically, so you can earn "everything" without raiding.
WAR promises that EVERYTHING can be earned inside PvP, but as you know, PvP is a vague term and it may, or not, involve "raiding in a PvP zone".
Although they never said anything, I am pretty sure BioWare mmo's will be a raid-free haven. Yet, they said nothing, it is a logical deduction, and I may be right or wrong.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by dragonace Originally posted by Anofalye . That is exactly what is going to happen, unless they bring a raid-free server. ...
I can respect your position Anofalye, especially since you are consistent in other game forums as well (Age of Conan for instance). I am curious about one thing though. Are there any current games that are raid-free, or any upcoming games that are advertising to be raid-free?
I'm not a big fan of raiding either, but it doesn't bother me as much as it does you (it would seem); to "miss out" on the content offered inside of raiding. I never even finish the content outside of raiding.
I would be interested in learning about any such game that doesn't have raiding in it though. Thanks for the info.
Well, that is also a big reason why devs should be earger to make a raid-free server, raid-free MMOs are EXTREMELY rare. Most games are raid-free, but most MMOs are having raiding enforced feature...If I have to turn away from MMOs to be free of raiding, I will.
ATM, from my humble knowledge, only CoV is raid-free, not even CoH. And this may change with every patch they bring, or may never change. CoV is also not advertising anything about raiding or not, thereby they are not gaining the benefits from such a stance, as most players have no idea...we don't know how it will evolves, and the Hamidon from CoH is certainly draining away all benefits they could gain from a currently ambigous situation. Not to forget that in CoV, you are not free from PvP, it is enforced on you with IoP, shivans, nukes, badges for accolades...
Heroes Journey promise that you can progress your toon "FULLY" without raiding ever once. Raiding will prolly be present, but it will not grant ANY item specifically, so you can earn "everything" without raiding.
WAR promises that EVERYTHING can be earned inside PvP, but as you know, PvP is a vague term and it may, or not, involve "raiding in a PvP zone".
Although they never said anything, I am pretty sure BioWare mmo's will be a raid-free haven. Yet, they said nothing, it is a logical deduction, and I may be right or wrong.
Thanks for the reply Anofalye.
I've tried both CoH and CoV. They're just not for me. I did like the uniqueness of the games, but I just couldn't get into the whole super-hero/cyber-punk thing. Which kinda surprised me because I really liked the Fallout series.
I haven't looked too hard at Hero's Journey. I'll have to re-visit it.
WAR looks interesting. I'm a fan of the minatures game, but not too sure if that will translate well into an MMO game. I will definitely keep watching it though. If only it will play like their awesome trailer for the game!
Originally posted by AnofalyeAs simple as that. I am not buying this game without raid-free server.
Personally, I don't like raids either, but that is a very poor reason not to play the game.
Why can't you just play the game and have fun with the rest of it? You don't have to go on raids yourself. You'll be able to find plenty of people who feel the same way about raids. If the fact that raids exist is the only thing you're basing your descision on then you're leaving out a couple of the things that you SHOULD be playing the game for: Adventuring, Crafting, Diplomacy, grouping, exploring, leveling up, cool mounts, player housing, community, trading, meeting friends, joining a guild, harvesting, finding cool gear, etc.
I'm all for being positive. I've informed at least a dozen people in RL about this game. If you're gonna be so negative though, I wouldn't want you on my server anyway. This is a game, and as such it is entertainment, and as such it is by definition positive.
As far as SOE being a controlling power in this game, it is not. The reason Sigil Games Online partnered with SOE is because they have experience dealing with issues involving ISPs, etc. If Vanguard was released by a less experienced company which failed to purchase the required bandwidth then you'd be playing a worse game for it. SOE has nothing to do with the design of the game.
Brad McQuaid... that's another post entirely. Why not look it up.
Originally posted by Anofalye Originally posted by Serenikill Originally posted by Anofalye Which is why I will only buy the game if there is a raid-free server that award this loot in any non-raiding way, grouping preferably, but anything honestly, even the dreaded and evil PvP. I know more peoples who dislike or plainly hate raiding than peoples accepting to raid...
This game is primarily focused on grouping, from beginning to end. WoW is grouping until the end when it turns into a rading game. This game is Grouping, a lot of the best items in the game will come from grouping. Also, you will be able to get top tier items from soloing, questing, crafting, diplomacy and a mix of all of the above. The game will be approximately 20-60-20, 20% solo, 60% group, 20% raiding. I can assure you they won't have a raid-free server as there won't be a demand for one... I have never heard of it before in fact. I don't see why you don't want the content at all. At least other people can participate in it, you don't have to, ever! It won't be like WoW or EQ or EQ2 or any other game at end game.
No amount of promises, of talking, or otherwise intangible talking will work. I am raid-burned, this is a permanent status. If there is raiding-enforced(even only 1 to 20%), I ain't playing the game, 1 enforced raiding = too much. No talk, no promise will change that fact, unless it is a raid-free server. And raid-loot has to be earnable by any non-raiding means on such a server, be it a merchant, group or whatever. 20% enforcing socialising with Uber-jerks, no thanks for the whole game.
They already promise me a LOT in EQ and EQ2, I don't trust anything short of raid-free...and I am sure I ain't alone or a tiny minority, I am pretty sure we outnumber the raider at 3 to 1 easily...prolly outnumber them a LOT more than 3 to 1. Without a raid-free servers, I am pretty sure this game never reach 100k subscribers.
It seems like your problem is being forced to raid, my post that you quoted alludes to this and I will say it bluntly as the devs have before. You won't be forced to raid.
Any non bind-on-pickup will be available to you through trade.
I think your main problem is that you don't trust people to develop a game, if you don't trust developers you don't have a business playing MMO's... because developers can change things in MMOs
Originally posted by Pneuma001 Originally posted by AnofalyeAs simple as that. I am not buying this game without raid-free server.
Personally, I don't like raids either, but that is a very poor reason not to play the game.
Why can't you just play the game and have fun with the rest of it? You don't have to go on raids yourself. You'll be able to find plenty of people who feel the same way about raids. If the fact that raids exist is the only thing you're basing your descision on then you're leaving out a couple of the things that you SHOULD be playing the game for: Adventuring, Crafting, Diplomacy, grouping, exploring, leveling up, cool mounts, player housing, community, trading, meeting friends, joining a guild, harvesting, finding cool gear, etc.
I'm all for being positive. I've informed at least a dozen people in RL about this game. If you're gonna be so negative though, I wouldn't want you on my server anyway. This is a game, and as such it is entertainment, and as such it is by definition positive.
As far as SOE being a controlling power in this game, it is not. The reason Sigil Games Online partnered with SOE is because they have experience dealing with issues involving ISPs, etc. If Vanguard was released by a less experienced company which failed to purchase the required bandwidth then you'd be playing a worse game for it. SOE has nothing to do with the design of the game.
Brad McQuaid... that's another post entirely. Why not look it up. Well said
Originally posted by achellis raiding is what keeps mmo's going
Raiding is what you implement when you don't have enough content or creativity in a game to keep people going. If you don't have an open ended system that allows you to truely be free, then you have to have some gimmick at the end of a characters life to get that subscriber to continue paying that monthly fee. Otherwise its reroll after reroll.
Amen.
I look at WoW and see a pretty clear picture of that. World PvP is all but dead, the only thing I see consistantly are level 60s running around level 20-40 areas ganking (whatever they can handle, if a bad ganker wanders into a level 30-40 area me and one friend kill him at the level of the area). Twink alts rule the BGs at max level for the bracket and all the same best items. Raiders who like to raid, raid to get gear so they can raid the next big thing. Much of the raiding gear isn't even ideal for PvP, the paladin raiding gear was what made me want to quit back in the spring...since I wanted to play a melee hybrid in PvP. Alts are everywhere, heck I had 3 level 60s and a 40+ when I quit.
I like getting better items, but I would very much prefer to get them from a player crafter. Raiding as an "end game" is a joke, especially when it doesn't even provide for top end PvP gear (PvP is required as part of my end game).
I'm back in WoW (for the last few weeks, new server with no gold to my name), because there is nothing else to play at the moment. I just have to laugh every time I see people in their "epic" or "legendary" gear...them and 1000 other people on the server. Talk about cheapening the words we use... Farm x boss for y times and get z item, woohoo "EPIC"!
As for raiding keeping MMOs going; my friends and I joined a random "Full" population PvP server and it is about 1/3 the population of when I was playing earlier this year (same with my old server when I visit it).
And world PvP? That makes me want to quit the game again, which I'm sure I will soon. Any town you could find a few people to PvP with before now has 40 heat-seeking-uber-speed gaurds that will jump on you and all but one shot you if you so much as say PvP. The only "world PvP" we could find before we quit last time was The Bulwark, nuetral towns and gold farming company "players". The Bulwark is empty (though we went horde this time anyway), towns are death and from everything I have seen and heard most farmers have been banned. We checked all the old farm spots (on our old mains) and didn't find a single player (friendly or otherwise).
WoW has shown many of us how important "polish" is in a game. WoW has also shown many of us how limited raiding is.
I think more games need to borrow CCP's approach. There is no endgame. PVE is almost pointless. What keeps the game going is PVP. Player controlled area, player alliances and resources that actually mean something. There is plenty i would change in EVE but i think they got the reason for PVP correctly implemented.
Haha I love when people are like, well if the game doesn't have this I'm not buying it, or if it has this I'm not buying it. Then please, don't buy it and leave it for those of us who aren't so ridiculously picky and whiney. Games change, even after launch, I don't know why people keep looking for this MMO where they love EVERY SINGLE ASPECT of it but seriously good luck finding it. My whole thing is, if you try it and don't like it, good for you, but if you don't even try it because you're being a huge baby over one little thing, I don't want you playing my game anyway.
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
Originally posted by Copeland I think more games need to borrow CCP's approach. There is no endgame. PVE is almost pointless. What keeps the game going is PVP. Player controlled area, player alliances and resources that actually mean something. There is plenty i would change in EVE but i think they got the reason for PVP correctly implemented.
This may be true, but it is important to remember that VG is being developed as a PVE game with alternate ruleset pvp servers. Seems like Warhammer is doing what you described.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Originally posted by Serenikill It seems like your problem is being forced to raid, my post that you quoted alludes to this and I will say it bluntly as the devs have before. You won't be forced to raid.
Any non bind-on-pickup will be available to you through trade.
I think your main problem is that you don't trust people to develop a game, if you don't trust developers you don't have a business playing MMO's... because developers can change things in MMOs
"Available throught trade", I have no warranty that raiding gear will be sold...and in fact, from what I know of guilds, most uber-guilds won't sell any raiding acquired uber-item. So, you still have to raid, since players will hoard these rather than sell them. These players rather sit on 5 copies of the items knowing they are alone to wear it, then trade it. It is the way they are. You can't change them and I will never start dreaming of changing a player, that ain't going to happen.
It is not the devs, nor Brad that I don't trust, it is when they trust my fellow players that I stop trusting. I know that Afterlife will NEVER sell raid items, neither would FoH, nor 95% of the raiding guild. So I will have to join them and raid with them...NO THANKS.
And there all all the "no drop" items, how does I get any without raiding if I want them to be better at grouping?
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Comments
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Delanor
and to the person that said that it makes guilds argue.. thats only if you dont have a good guild
Which is why I will only buy the game if there is a raid-free server that award this loot in any non-raiding way, grouping preferably, but anything honestly, even the dreaded and evil PvP.
I know more peoples who dislike or plainly hate raiding than peoples accepting to raid...
This game is primarily focused on grouping, from beginning to end. WoW is grouping until the end when it turns into a rading game. This game is Grouping, a lot of the best items in the game will come from grouping. Also, you will be able to get top tier items from soloing, questing, crafting, diplomacy and a mix of all of the above. The game will be approximately 20-60-20, 20% solo, 60% group, 20% raiding. I can assure you they won't have a raid-free server as there won't be a demand for one... I have never heard of it before in fact. I don't see why you don't want the content at all. At least other people can participate in it, you don't have to, ever! It won't be like WoW or EQ or EQ2 or any other game at end game.
Which is why I will only buy the game if there is a raid-free server that award this loot in any non-raiding way, grouping preferably, but anything honestly, even the dreaded and evil PvP.
I know more peoples who dislike or plainly hate raiding than peoples accepting to raid...
This game is primarily focused on grouping, from beginning to end. WoW is grouping until the end when it turns into a rading game. This game is Grouping, a lot of the best items in the game will come from grouping. Also, you will be able to get top tier items from soloing, questing, crafting, diplomacy and a mix of all of the above. The game will be approximately 20-60-20, 20% solo, 60% group, 20% raiding. I can assure you they won't have a raid-free server as there won't be a demand for one... I have never heard of it before in fact. I don't see why you don't want the content at all. At least other people can participate in it, you don't have to, ever! It won't be like WoW or EQ or EQ2 or any other game at end game.
well yeah beacause its a new game
No amount of promises, of talking, or otherwise intangible talking will work. I am raid-burned, this is a permanent status. If there is raiding-enforced(even only 1 to 20%), I ain't playing the game, 1 enforced raiding = too much. No talk, no promise will change that fact, unless it is a raid-free server. And raid-loot has to be earnable by any non-raiding means on such a server, be it a merchant, group or whatever. 20% enforcing socialising with Uber-jerks, no thanks for the whole game.
They already promise me a LOT in EQ and EQ2, I don't trust anything short of raid-free...and I am sure I ain't alone or a tiny minority, I am pretty sure we outnumber the raider at 3 to 1 easily...prolly outnumber them a LOT more than 3 to 1. Without a raid-free servers, I am pretty sure this game never reach 100k subscribers.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
what ever than kid dont play the game if you dont want to raid
That is exactly what is going to happen, unless they bring a raid-free server.
I am doing them a favor by repeating it here, giving them a chance to adapt. They are free to adapt...or not. Most peoples just don't care and stick with other games. You see my arguments as "annoying", while all I try to do, is to help them adapt, and make a raid-free server, which would help their game a LOT. And don't tell me it is massive work, it isn't.
A raid-free server can be running and up in no time, with minimal crew behind. To minimize the work, you just put the raid-loot onto another method that doesn't involve raiding at all, such as a merchant (worst case scenario here is the merchant, which is still fine), you don't even need to remove raid-stuff, as long as the rewards, on these servers, are earnable in another way that everyone consider "easier" (or you remove them from raiding targets if you can't make it "easier"), then you may at your leisure make any grouping content harder to earn...or not.
Again, peoples see me as "an opponent", while in fact, I try to help them, make a cool game, in my own way, which is insisting on the raid-free component. Peoples who are raid-burned are more numerous than you think.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
That is exactly what is going to happen, unless they bring a raid-free server. ...
I can respect your position Anofalye, especially since you are consistent in other game forums as well (Age of Conan for instance). I am curious about one thing though. Are there any current games that are raid-free, or any upcoming games that are advertising to be raid-free?
I'm not a big fan of raiding either, but it doesn't bother me as much as it does you (it would seem); to "miss out" on the content offered inside of raiding. I never even finish the content outside of raiding.
I would be interested in learning about any such game that doesn't have raiding in it though. Thanks for the info.
I'm not a big fan of raiding either, but it doesn't bother me as much as it does you (it would seem); to "miss out" on the content offered inside of raiding. I never even finish the content outside of raiding.
I would be interested in learning about any such game that doesn't have raiding in it though. Thanks for the info.
Well, that is also a big reason why devs should be earger to make a raid-free server, raid-free MMOs are EXTREMELY rare. Most games are raid-free, but most MMOs are having raiding enforced feature...If I have to turn away from MMOs to be free of raiding, I will.
ATM, from my humble knowledge, only CoV is raid-free, not even CoH. And this may change with every patch they bring, or may never change. CoV is also not advertising anything about raiding or not, thereby they are not gaining the benefits from such a stance, as most players have no idea...we don't know how it will evolves, and the Hamidon from CoH is certainly draining away all benefits they could gain from a currently ambigous situation. Not to forget that in CoV, you are not free from PvP, it is enforced on you with IoP, shivans, nukes, badges for accolades...
Heroes Journey promise that you can progress your toon "FULLY" without raiding ever once. Raiding will prolly be present, but it will not grant ANY item specifically, so you can earn "everything" without raiding.
WAR promises that EVERYTHING can be earned inside PvP, but as you know, PvP is a vague term and it may, or not, involve "raiding in a PvP zone".
Although they never said anything, I am pretty sure BioWare mmo's will be a raid-free haven. Yet, they said nothing, it is a logical deduction, and I may be right or wrong.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I'm not a big fan of raiding either, but it doesn't bother me as much as it does you (it would seem); to "miss out" on the content offered inside of raiding. I never even finish the content outside of raiding.
I would be interested in learning about any such game that doesn't have raiding in it though. Thanks for the info.
Well, that is also a big reason why devs should be earger to make a raid-free server, raid-free MMOs are EXTREMELY rare. Most games are raid-free, but most MMOs are having raiding enforced feature...If I have to turn away from MMOs to be free of raiding, I will.
ATM, from my humble knowledge, only CoV is raid-free, not even CoH. And this may change with every patch they bring, or may never change. CoV is also not advertising anything about raiding or not, thereby they are not gaining the benefits from such a stance, as most players have no idea...we don't know how it will evolves, and the Hamidon from CoH is certainly draining away all benefits they could gain from a currently ambigous situation. Not to forget that in CoV, you are not free from PvP, it is enforced on you with IoP, shivans, nukes, badges for accolades...
Heroes Journey promise that you can progress your toon "FULLY" without raiding ever once. Raiding will prolly be present, but it will not grant ANY item specifically, so you can earn "everything" without raiding.
WAR promises that EVERYTHING can be earned inside PvP, but as you know, PvP is a vague term and it may, or not, involve "raiding in a PvP zone".
Although they never said anything, I am pretty sure BioWare mmo's will be a raid-free haven. Yet, they said nothing, it is a logical deduction, and I may be right or wrong.
Thanks for the reply Anofalye.
I've tried both CoH and CoV. They're just not for me. I did like the uniqueness of the games, but I just couldn't get into the whole super-hero/cyber-punk thing. Which kinda surprised me because I really liked the Fallout series.
I haven't looked too hard at Hero's Journey. I'll have to re-visit it.
WAR looks interesting. I'm a fan of the minatures game, but not too sure if that will translate well into an MMO game. I will definitely keep watching it though. If only it will play like their awesome trailer for the game!
Personally, I don't like raids either, but that is a very poor reason not to play the game.
Why can't you just play the game and have fun with the rest of it? You don't have to go on raids yourself. You'll be able to find plenty of people who feel the same way about raids. If the fact that raids exist is the only thing you're basing your descision on then you're leaving out a couple of the things that you SHOULD be playing the game for: Adventuring, Crafting, Diplomacy, grouping, exploring, leveling up, cool mounts, player housing, community, trading, meeting friends, joining a guild, harvesting, finding cool gear, etc.
I'm all for being positive. I've informed at least a dozen people in RL about this game. If you're gonna be so negative though, I wouldn't want you on my server anyway. This is a game, and as such it is entertainment, and as such it is by definition positive.
As far as SOE being a controlling power in this game, it is not. The reason Sigil Games Online partnered with SOE is because they have experience dealing with issues involving ISPs, etc. If Vanguard was released by a less experienced company which failed to purchase the required bandwidth then you'd be playing a worse game for it. SOE has nothing to do with the design of the game.
Brad McQuaid... that's another post entirely. Why not look it up.
No amount of promises, of talking, or otherwise intangible talking will work. I am raid-burned, this is a permanent status. If there is raiding-enforced(even only 1 to 20%), I ain't playing the game, 1 enforced raiding = too much. No talk, no promise will change that fact, unless it is a raid-free server. And raid-loot has to be earnable by any non-raiding means on such a server, be it a merchant, group or whatever. 20% enforcing socialising with Uber-jerks, no thanks for the whole game.
They already promise me a LOT in EQ and EQ2, I don't trust anything short of raid-free...and I am sure I ain't alone or a tiny minority, I am pretty sure we outnumber the raider at 3 to 1 easily...prolly outnumber them a LOT more than 3 to 1. Without a raid-free servers, I am pretty sure this game never reach 100k subscribers.
It seems like your problem is being forced to raid, my post that you quoted alludes to this and I will say it bluntly as the devs have before. You won't be forced to raid.
Any non bind-on-pickup will be available to you through trade.
I think your main problem is that you don't trust people to develop a game, if you don't trust developers you don't have a business playing MMO's... because developers can change things in MMOs
Personally, I don't like raids either, but that is a very poor reason not to play the game.
Why can't you just play the game and have fun with the rest of it? You don't have to go on raids yourself. You'll be able to find plenty of people who feel the same way about raids. If the fact that raids exist is the only thing you're basing your descision on then you're leaving out a couple of the things that you SHOULD be playing the game for: Adventuring, Crafting, Diplomacy, grouping, exploring, leveling up, cool mounts, player housing, community, trading, meeting friends, joining a guild, harvesting, finding cool gear, etc.
I'm all for being positive. I've informed at least a dozen people in RL about this game. If you're gonna be so negative though, I wouldn't want you on my server anyway. This is a game, and as such it is entertainment, and as such it is by definition positive.
As far as SOE being a controlling power in this game, it is not. The reason Sigil Games Online partnered with SOE is because they have experience dealing with issues involving ISPs, etc. If Vanguard was released by a less experienced company which failed to purchase the required bandwidth then you'd be playing a worse game for it. SOE has nothing to do with the design of the game.
Brad McQuaid... that's another post entirely. Why not look it up.
Well said
Amen.
I look at WoW and see a pretty clear picture of that. World PvP is all but dead, the only thing I see consistantly are level 60s running around level 20-40 areas ganking (whatever they can handle, if a bad ganker wanders into a level 30-40 area me and one friend kill him at the level of the area). Twink alts rule the BGs at max level for the bracket and all the same best items. Raiders who like to raid, raid to get gear so they can raid the next big thing. Much of the raiding gear isn't even ideal for PvP, the paladin raiding gear was what made me want to quit back in the spring...since I wanted to play a melee hybrid in PvP. Alts are everywhere, heck I had 3 level 60s and a 40+ when I quit.
I like getting better items, but I would very much prefer to get them from a player crafter. Raiding as an "end game" is a joke, especially when it doesn't even provide for top end PvP gear (PvP is required as part of my end game).
I'm back in WoW (for the last few weeks, new server with no gold to my name), because there is nothing else to play at the moment. I just have to laugh every time I see people in their "epic" or "legendary" gear...them and 1000 other people on the server. Talk about cheapening the words we use... Farm x boss for y times and get z item, woohoo "EPIC"!
As for raiding keeping MMOs going; my friends and I joined a random "Full" population PvP server and it is about 1/3 the population of when I was playing earlier this year (same with my old server when I visit it).
And world PvP? That makes me want to quit the game again, which I'm sure I will soon. Any town you could find a few people to PvP with before now has 40 heat-seeking-uber-speed gaurds that will jump on you and all but one shot you if you so much as say PvP. The only "world PvP" we could find before we quit last time was The Bulwark, nuetral towns and gold farming company "players". The Bulwark is empty (though we went horde this time anyway), towns are death and from everything I have seen and heard most farmers have been banned. We checked all the old farm spots (on our old mains) and didn't find a single player (friendly or otherwise).
WoW has shown many of us how important "polish" is in a game. WoW has also shown many of us how limited raiding is.
I think more games need to borrow CCP's approach. There is no endgame. PVE is almost pointless. What keeps the game going is PVP. Player controlled area, player alliances and resources that actually mean something. There is plenty i would change in EVE but i think they got the reason for PVP correctly implemented.
Make a difference!
"God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."
"Down here it OUR time, up there its theres".
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
"Available throught trade", I have no warranty that raiding gear will be sold...and in fact, from what I know of guilds, most uber-guilds won't sell any raiding acquired uber-item. So, you still have to raid, since players will hoard these rather than sell them. These players rather sit on 5 copies of the items knowing they are alone to wear it, then trade it. It is the way they are. You can't change them and I will never start dreaming of changing a player, that ain't going to happen.
It is not the devs, nor Brad that I don't trust, it is when they trust my fellow players that I stop trusting. I know that Afterlife will NEVER sell raid items, neither would FoH, nor 95% of the raiding guild. So I will have to join them and raid with them...NO THANKS.
And there all all the "no drop" items, how does I get any without raiding if I want them to be better at grouping?
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren