Originally posted by lordtwisted I agree WoW, will be the only WoW killer.
Th only game on the horizon that has the potential to put a meaningful dent in WoW subscriptions is Warhammer. The only WoW-killer I can foresee is World of Starcraft.
I thought they killed off the starcraft project...maybe it was just put off a bit? Warhammer I have to admit, I have not been following, but ..and I am going to ASSUME here again, that it will have the same fan base as WoW did, so yes, it could hurt WoW, wasn't Warhammer originally a strat game like warcraft was? So it should have mostly the same fan base, I would think.
I have to say, if all of WoW players came to Vanguard..atleast those that WoW was their first MMO, I think a small percentage would stay with Vanguard. I think that small percentage would find a whole new meaning to MMORPG, but the majority would hate Vanguard. It is a time investment, that a lot of people are not willing to make.
Originally posted by lordtwisted I agree WoW, will be the only WoW killer.
Th only game on the horizon that has the potential to put a meaningful dent in WoW subscriptions is Warhammer. The only WoW-killer I can foresee is World of Starcraft.
Tell me, will my girlfriend and I get married? Will we have children? To heck with it, just lend me your crystal ball.
World of Starcraft would be hella kewl, as long as it's not strategy. Fact is, you don't know any better than anyone else what will be the WoW killer. Likely, there won't ever be a WoW killer. WoW might be the last game to ever top 3 million subs. Certainly no one could have ever foreseen how many people would be playing WoW.
Blizzard is just a great company though, even though they made WoW.
Originally posted by lordtwisted I agree WoW, will be the only WoW killer.
Th only game on the horizon that has the potential to put a meaningful dent in WoW subscriptions is Warhammer. The only WoW-killer I can foresee is World of Starcraft.
Tell me, will my girlfriend and I get married? Will we have children? To heck with it, just lend me your crystal ball.
World of Starcraft would be hella kewl, as long as it's not strategy. Fact is, you don't know any better than anyone else what will be the WoW killer. Likely, there won't ever be a WoW killer. WoW might be the last game to ever top 3 million subs. Certainly no one could have ever foreseen how many people would be playing WoW.
Blizzard is just a great company though, even though they made WoW.
We are not spouting facts at you by anymeans. You have to read our post like business people read the new york times. We are guesstimating useing facts from the past charachter behavior of other games success and failures, and we are useing the current games fan base facts, etc... but the answers we use towards the future are pure guesstimates.
As far as you and your girlfriend, forget about it, just before Christmas this year, she finds out about you and that slut you met at your friend Carls poker party, and she dumps you. To your dismay, she is dumping you for the slut you were with at Carls poker party. Sorry.
Originally posted by lordtwisted It boils down to this. If they granted you your raid free server, then they have to grant people the Vulmane free server, the gnome free server, the group free server, the solo free server, the dev free server, the Anofayle free server, the guild free server, the faction free server, the crafting free server, the diplomacy free server, the housing free server, the bad charachter name free server, the level 60 at creation server, the...
Nope, because raiding by awarding unfair rewards shaft all non-raiders. Peoples don't need a Vulmane free server since Vulmane don't get a reward that shaft everyone else.
The main idea, is to be ABLE to play the damn game. PvP was remove on some server, for good reasons. Raiding is even wronger than PvP, it crush HOPE. PvP and gankers never crush hope, yet raiding does just that. Raid-free server is definitely in order for peoples who won't raid for any reason.
If they refuse a raid-free server, they should enforce PvP on every server, no point to remove PvP if you still have raiding, as raiding is more detrimental on the players than PvP could be.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I disagree. I think PvP and Raiding is both a part of life in the games. The only reason non-PvP servers were developed, is because in the past <UO for one> If I want to play the game, but I don't want to partake in killing people..well, I had no choice, I would be killed wether I liked it or not.
Raiding is something done by choice. It doesn't effect you in any way. You say that raid loot is so much better then other loot. I don't see it. And the ones I have seen were usually things you could buy from another player.
And saying the Vulmanes don't give you an advantage, what if the Vulmane had a race bonus of +12 to stealth. Well, I want to be a rogue, but I don't want to play a Vulmane. So should I get a Vulmane free server?
If there are racial bonuses are we going to have to have a server with each race?
Brad is worshipped like a minor eastern Pacific Island deity because he makes a decent MMO then after 6 months takes the money an runs. So when everyone starts to get bored playing and discovers the bugs and flaws and realise that it isn't "all that and a bag of potato chips", some poor new guy takes the flak. Players then start to chant in unison about "the good old days" when Brad was still there, and how this could never happen if he was here to use his omnipotent powers.
In my opinion Brad = a bail out early artists.
He gets all the praise and a golden parachute in the form of a buy out, then leaves the players in the lurch. He can create an MMORPG of that there is no doubt, but there's no evidence in my opinion that he knows his arse from his elbow when it comes to maintaining one. Perhaps Vanguard will prove otherwise and change my opinion, but I seriously doubt it.
VANGUARD: Sold Out Halfprice
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
Raiding is something done by choice. It doesn't effect you in any way. You say that raid loot is so much better then other loot. I don't see it. And the ones I have seen were usually things you could buy from another player.
And saying the Vulmanes don't give you an advantage, what if the Vulmane had a race bonus of +12 to stealth. Well, I want to be a rogue, but I don't want to play a Vulmane. So should I get a Vulmane free server? If there are racial bonuses are we going to have to have a server with each race?
This is where you are wrong. Raiding is not a CHOICE. If I want to be the most desired enchanter on the server for pick-up group, I have to raid. No matter if I like or not raiding. For pick-up GROUP, I have to raid? That is a nonsense! And these raiders even scorn on PUGs? PUGs are the ultimate test to grouping uberness. They don't deserve that uberness at all!
Vulmane advantage, even if it would be enormous implies no GAMEPLAY modification, you play a Vulmane and enjoy the SAME gameplay you like. Unlike raiding...a racial bonus doesn't enforce a gameplay. GAMEPLAYS justify different servers, and raid-free server is a MAJOR gameplay distinction.
Vanguard success would be exponential if they have raid-free servers, it would outmatch old EQ. Without such servers, it will be a good competitor for EVE! EQ had the PvE servers playing for it while competitors didn't. Vanguard needs such an edge, and raid-free servers is such an edge.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Raiding is something done by choice. It doesn't effect you in any way. You say that raid loot is so much better then other loot. I don't see it. And the ones I have seen were usually things you could buy from another player.
And saying the Vulmanes don't give you an advantage, what if the Vulmane had a race bonus of +12 to stealth. Well, I want to be a rogue, but I don't want to play a Vulmane. So should I get a Vulmane free server? If there are racial bonuses are we going to have to have a server with each race?
This is where you are wrong. Raiding is not a CHOICE. If I want to be the most desired enchanter on the server for pick-up group, I have to raid. No matter if I like or not raiding. For pick-up GROUP, I have to raid? That is a nonsense! And these raiders even scorn on PUGs? PUGs are the ultimate test to grouping uberness. They don't deserve that uberness at all!
Vulmane advantage, even if it would be enormous implies no GAMEPLAY modification, you play a Vulmane and enjoy the SAME gameplay you like. Unlike raiding...a racial bonus doesn't enforce a gameplay. GAMEPLAYS justify different servers, and raid-free server is a MAJOR gameplay distinction.
Vanguard success would be exponential if they have raid-free servers, it would outmatch old EQ. Without such servers, it will be a good competitor for EVE! EQ had the PvE servers playing for it while competitors didn't. Vanguard needs such an edge, and raid-free servers is such an edge.
So, your problem with raids being available is thet it provides better equipment, then standard groups, or even solo play. But you have not played this game as of yet to know this for a fact?
From what I understand craftsman will occasionally have a rare component or event slipped into the crafting process to create a rare and powerful item. So what makes you think raid items will be more bemificial then these?
On another note, Sigil has stated many times over, groups are their main concern, not raids, and not solo. So if this is the case, why would you assume that raid groups will receive better equipment. I can understand, baseing this assumption on previous games, it is a logical assumption.
I just don't think your going to see it as the problem you think it is going to be. But I am also assumeing. So until release, neither one of us is going to be proven correct. For your benifeit, I hope I am right.
Originally posted by lordtwisted So, your problem with raids being available is thet it provides better equipment, then standard groups, or even solo play. But you have not played this game as of yet to know this for a fact?
From what I understand craftsman will occasionally have a rare component or event slipped into the crafting process to create a rare and powerful item. So what makes you think raid items will be more bemificial then these?
On another note, Sigil has stated many times over, groups are their main concern, not raids, and not solo. So if this is the case, why would you assume that raid groups will receive better equipment. I can understand, baseing this assumption on previous games, it is a logical assumption.
I just don't think your going to see it as the problem you think it is going to be. But I am also assumeing. So until release, neither one of us is going to be proven correct. For your benifeit, I hope I am right.
Yes, raiding making peoples better at grouping is definitely a problem. Well, I am going to see this as a problem since I won't buy the game unless there is a non-raiding server. Brad already promise me raiding won't shaft grouping in EQ and EQ2, I won't trust him because he says so.
Your logic of: "Can't judge until you play" is flawed, since in that case I should buy A Tale in the Desert, even if I know that I will not like it, I didn't play it, so I can't judge.
See, I know that you will get 80% of the stuff in a month or two, then you will try to get the 20% of raiding stuff for LONGER. This is not something I find acceptable, tolerable or even bearable. It isn't. Even if I have to raid 10% of the time it is problematic and I REFUSE to raid. I will get second ranked groups, I will be weaker, I will be unaccomplish...there is no point in playing this game. I can't succeed if I don't raid. I want to be the BEST GROUPER! At least in stats if I lack otherwise! Now, I may or not accomplish that, but I need to HOPE, and raiding remove this hope.
Trying to convince me isn't going to work, nor will you be able to convince anyone who experience raiding in WoW...we just don't want any of this ever again. NEVER AGAIN. Brad said countless time that SOME of the best items will require you to raid, otherwise you are doomed to be weaker by missing all the raid-acquired items. This is NOT acceptable, as I want to be the best grouper and work toward this without raiding once (which is a legitimate request, I don't want to be the best at everything, I want to be the best at grouping and I don't want to raid, not even once, very legetimate request).
20%, 50%, 100% or 1% been given to raiders = unacceptable. They can't be better at grouping then groupers, this is a nonsense.
Non-raiding servers are a must to save this game. (with all raid loot been redistributed in a group system or merchant)
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by Anofalye Trying to convince me isn't going to work
as mister CEO dude puts it, "Nuff said"
I would like to say it has been nice debating with you. But it hasn't. There can not be a debate without having an open mind. I wish I could tell you that you are wrong about this game. But I can not. Not because you are right, but because there is no answer until the final version.
I would say, in a few months when you do break down and buy the game, because you will. Then look me up in game. But my guild and I will be on a PvP server. So that will not happen.
I agree with the first statement you made-most people see the good part of EQ and associate Brad with that but do not acknowledge the fact that the crap came from the same place. However since he is the producer of both good and bad I am going to give him the bennefit of the first series of bads being mistakes and if they repeat I know he does not care about how his clientail feels and will never buy a game that I know he is associated with again. There will no doubt be mistakes in every venture so I am not going to set myself up for disappiontment by holding a standard that cannot be attained.
As far as what is new about Vanguard? Alot is new, first off the totality of what is offered in Vanguard alone will offer a new experience: Flying mounts( not on rails but ones you control and can fly anywhere )small, medium and large boats that you and your crew control, player housing and city building, also the ability to play on more then a flat 3 dimensional plane I.E: Cities and dungeons in the sky and deep under the sea or underground, diplomatic bargaining and crafting. True many of these concepts are not altogether new ideas but they are now designed more thuroughly, with more thought and effort put into making sure these things are indeed fun. Crafting is not new but the experience of crafting in Vanguard will be new and certainly like nothing you have ever played( will it be fun or will it be stupid? I don't know I will have to try it out to find out ). Finally when you look at the game in it's total design it is ambitiously aiming for triple platinum here not a conservative silver, it is promising a whole new world and actually trying to give it.
Will it succeed? That is for us to decide but I hope that we will give it a real chance and look at it with neutral eyes.
Let me set out some facts for you: Everything that was good in EQ was due to Brad. Everything that was bad in EQ was due to someone else. Everything that was good in EQ2 was due to Brad. Everything that was bad in EQ2 was due to someone else. He's the greates man to ever walk the Earth. These facts are all based on hard evidence which I can't find or link to you or prove in any way. You must just put on your rose colored glasses and have faith, brother. All Hail Brad!
Seriously though...
Whenever Brad McQuaid is refered to people always point out his previous games: EQ and EQ2. For one, EQ is one of the most successful games ever. It was also a first try as a 3D MUD. It ALSO felt like much less of a grind than many of the other multiplayer games that were out at the time. It has been updated recently with graphics and new features, but short of rewriting the whole system, they can't upgrade the basic stuff to match the gameplay styles of newer games, so it is a very poor comparison to anything else that is coming out now.
EQ also wasn't all due to Brad McQuaid, who wasn't a game designer at the time, but instead the Producer and was only the CO-author of the design document. "Co-" means there was someone else involved in that process too. In fact, there were hundreds of people that worked on the game. There were even other designers of the game. You can quote any specific thing in the game and there's a chance that Brad designed it himself, but probably only at a high-level as he wrote the design document. Those ideas were likely fleshed out more by other designers.
As far as his involvement in EQ2, he *was* the creative director before he left the company in October 2001, and EQ2 wasn't released till November of 2004. That means that everything that might have been changed in those 37 months really didn't have anything to do with Brad, and it is impossible for us to know how much had changed in that much time. Instead if you have an opinion about EQ2, then you should find out who the Creative Director or Executive Producer on the game was during that time and give them equal credit.
Here's a quote from Vanguard's FAQs from Brad McQuaid: [quote]Actually, I *was* the Creative Director and Executive Producer on EQ 2, as well as the author of the first EQ 2 design doc, from 1999 (its inception) to October 2001 when I left SOE. I was also the Producer on EQ 1 for its full development period, co-author of its design document...[/quote]
Even though this topic isn't about raiding, it seems that Anofalye is adept at working it in ANYWHERE. Go you. As far as raiding goes, here's a quote from Anofalye, the heroine devoted to anti-raiding: [quote]If I want to be the most desired enchanter on the server for pick-up group, I have to raid.[/quote]
That's absolutely true! I agree wholeheartedly! That's what they're going for, and how they retain customers. The point that you're making right here is that YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE of whether you want to try to be the most desired character on the server. I personally don't give a rat's ass about having the most desired character on the server. If you want to have that distinction, then you might as well join the olympics because it'll be almost as hard to obtain.
In the case that you take all raid gear and assign it elsewhere, that would just mean that everybody has this equipment (especially in the case where you just put it on a merchant, that's ridiculous!). Then, when everyone has the uber raiding equipment from non-raid activities, then YOU DON'T STAND OUT AT ALL!!! That defeats your whole goal of being "The Best", don't you think?
On the point of customer retention, which is a VERY big deal when it comes to games like this, I have a question for Anofalye, or anyone else who cares to answer:
Assuming that you have your non-raiding server, and you've gotten your 80% in the first couple months and then in the next month you get the additional 20% of stuff that was meant to be raiding content but is now group content because of your special server, How do you suggest the game company retains it's customers once they've reached thier maximum level? What will hold them there for another month or two or six or twelve till they can release new content? I'd sure like to know, and I'm sure the game company would like to hear it as well.
The only thing that I can think of to answer this question is this: Make the equipment all obtainable in a single-group-only setting but then reduce the already low drop rates to an even lower drop rate? If they didn't do that, then people would obtain everything, become bored, and leave. You might be able to figure out why "people leaving" is considered "bad" for a game company without me having to explain it to you.
Another question for you: Once all the characters on your special server have all of the raiding stuff that they've gotten thru just grouping, How do you feel that this will affect the Vanguard Community as a whole? I suppose everyone else could just accept that the people on those certain servers are a bunch of pansies. "Oh, you play on X-non-raid-server? *cough*PANSY!*cough*. You know that would be the community's feeling toward it. Are you alright with having that feeling directed toward you? I would even suggest that they name it the "Pansy Server" so that the average person wouldn't have to explain to you that you're a pansy because you'd already know it.
I understand that not everyone is in the anti-raiding mode, so you'll say that it's just this server. Alright, let's say that they do set up the non-raiding server. Then people play. Everyone reaches max level. People run out of things to do and start leaving. The population of the server drops to around half of a normal server. Now it is significantly less profitable for the game company to run this server. It might be good for a while, but then if they shut off the server, they'll piss off everyone on it who still wants to play. If they combine that server with any other server then they'll piss off everyone on the other server who actually had to raid to get the powerful items that the Pansies just grouped up for.
Originally posted by anarchyart Tell me, will my girlfriend and I get married? Will we have children? To heck with it, just lend me your crystal ball. World of Starcraft would be hella kewl, as long as it's not strategy. Fact is, you don't know any better than anyone else what will be the WoW killer. Likely, there won't ever be a WoW killer. WoW might be the last game to ever top 3 million subs. Certainly no one could have ever foreseen how many people would be playing WoW. Blizzard is just a great company though, even though they made WoW.
Any time I make predictions about future events, you may assume they are my personal opinion and that I am not a psychic.
But, since you asked, and it's Halloween, let me gaze into my crystal ball ....
I see something in the haze ... it's your girlfriend ... she's saying something .... trying to make it out ....
"That's it Ana, I'm outta here. All you do is play Vanguard and argue with Amathe. We're through!"
Ouch. Tough break bro. You can console yourself someday playing World of Starcraft with me and 10 million other people.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Originally posted by Amathe Originally posted by anarchyart Tell me, will my girlfriend and I get married? Will we have children? To heck with it, just lend me your crystal ball. World of Starcraft would be hella kewl, as long as it's not strategy. Fact is, you don't know any better than anyone else what will be the WoW killer. Likely, there won't ever be a WoW killer. WoW might be the last game to ever top 3 million subs. Certainly no one could have ever foreseen how many people would be playing WoW. Blizzard is just a great company though, even though they made WoW.
Any time I make predictions about future events, you may assume they are my personal opinion and that I am not a psychic.
But, since you asked, and it's Halloween, let me gaze into my crystal ball ....
I see something in the haze ... it's your girlfriend ... she's saying something .... trying to make it out ....
"That's it Ana, I'm outta here. All you do is play Vanguard and argue with Amathe. We're through!"
Ouch. Tough break bro. You can console yourself someday playing World of Starcraft with me and 10 million other people.
LOL! Come on anarchyart, you gotta admit that was pretty funny. Good to see that we can still have a bit of humor on this forum.
Well, peoples leaving happy would be better than a FEW peoples staying for raids and MOST leaving unhappy. The state of SoE should have teach folks a lesson or two about having peoples leaving the game unhappy because of a "ending in a raiding gameplay". Yet, there is no easy way out, if you want peoples to stay a LONG time and keep them playing, there is only 1 solution, and it involve a LOT of work, a LOT of update. You should also be careful to keep old content nice, unlike EQ. So a level cap on every zone and working similarly around gear is the way to keep that old content always nice for a new player, never outdated, and giving goals to a wide arrays of players...if someone can MAX Crushbone, then this is something, they may aim for that goal...later they may or not aim for a harder goal. Especially that they know, nobody is better than them in Crushbone if they max everything, this is something every casual can enjoy...and hardcore like me only smile and will race to max the hardest places.
And no, I will not buy and play the game Lordtwisted, unless they have raid-free server. Believe me or not, but after buying EQ2 and leaving in a week, buying WoW and leaving on the next day...I don't see why I should bother to buy another game that enforce raiding on groupers. No thanks. Grouping uberness, all of it, belong to groupers, not to raiders. (and IF I can try it in beta, considering I play WoW 1 day, do you think I feel any urge to try it, now that is a big IF, but we like supposing, don't we? Yet, a gamer with dozens of friends, what are the odds that I don't see ANY game in Beta? Especially that I work, in the game industry, so my work collegues, may after the job, try many different games, don't you think?)
I give an explanation, I don't debate. Sorry if anyone was thinking it is a debate, it isn't for me. It is an explanation. Now you keep arguing and talking and trying to convince me, I keep explaining why your logic fails and won't succeed.
See, even if I have a moment of weakness, I will not buy Vanguard, I will return to CoV. That is as simple as it is. Vanguard with raiding enforced can't beat CoV in my personnal hopes for a good game. Unless there is a raid-free server, in which case it isn't a moment of weakness, but hope for something fun.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I know Im late into this and I couldnt be bothered reading the whole thread (Mods priveledge )
But I have always had enourmous respect for BmQ.
I played EQ1 for over 2 years and I played a Ranger (as I usually do in MMO's). I guess we fell in love because Brad is a Ranger fan too and Rangers in EQ1 really hit the mark for my money. I loved my Half Elf Ranger and if my entire guild hadnt moved to DAoC when it launched, I would have probably played EQ1 longer. I still never got that full set of Rubicite....
I remain hopeful about VSoH for one reason and one reason only.... and thats Brad.
Im not a Fanboi.... Im just someone who recognises what must be respected and BmQ is up there with the Garriots in this industry. Love him or Hate him.... you have to respect his achievements.
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Originally posted by Anofalye Well, peoples leaving happy would be better than a FEW peoples staying for raids and MOST leaving unhappy. The state of SoE should have teach folks a lesson or two about having peoples leaving the game unhappy because of a "ending in a raiding gameplay". Yet, there is no easy way out, if you want peoples to stay a LONG time and keep them playing, there is only 1 solution, and it involve a LOT of work, a LOT of update. You should also be careful to keep old content nice, unlike EQ. So a level cap on every zone and working similarly around gear is the way to keep that old content always nice for a new player, never outdated, and giving goals to a wide arrays of players...if someone can MAX Crushbone, then this is something, they may aim for that goal...later they may or not aim for a harder goal. Especially that they know, nobody is better than them in Crushbone if they max everything, this is something every casual can enjoy...and hardcore like me only smile and will race to max the hardest places.
And no, I will not buy and play the game Lordtwisted, unless they have raid-free server. Believe me or not, but after buying EQ2 and leaving in a week, buying WoW and leaving on the next day...I don't see why I should bother to buy another game that enforce raiding on groupers. No thanks. Grouping uberness, all of it, belong to groupers, not to raiders. (and IF I can try it in beta, considering I play WoW 1 day, do you think I feel any urge to try it, now that is a big IF, but we like supposing, don't we? Yet, a gamer with dozens of friends, what are the odds that I don't see ANY game in Beta? Especially that I work, in the game industry, so my work collegues, may after the job, try many different games, don't you think?)
I give an explanation, I don't debate. Sorry if anyone was thinking it is a debate, it isn't for me. It is an explanation. Now you keep arguing and talking and trying to convince me, I keep explaining why your logic fails and won't succeed.
See, even if I have a moment of weakness, I will not buy Vanguard, I will return to CoV. That is as simple as it is. Vanguard with raiding enforced can't beat CoV in my personnal hopes for a good game. Unless there is a raid-free server, in which case it isn't a moment of weakness, but hope for something fun.
Hmm, you don't debate, you don't raid, you lock in an opinion about a game with in one week...if not in one day.
It sounds to me like you can't handle challenges. You want to live a long stress free life? Well good luck, you may live to 100, but your not going to enjoy it.
Not sure what part of the game industry you work in but I hope it's not as a critic, because a critic must be open minded, and that you are not.
As far as the state of SOE, do you consider them a failure? I could only hope to fail as well as they did, probablly bring in more then most other game companies, don't tell me they don't because WoW has 50% of the mmo market, SOE has their hands into a hell of a lot more games in many markets. They have the second longest running MMO on the market, and probablly the most added content of any publisher.
SOE may have made mistakes in the past, but neglecting the few raid free radicals is not one of them. You want a raid free server, buy Diablo or something, maybe you and your few friends you like to group with should just consider LAN parties? Maybe a little pen and paper D&D. Might be a better match. Speaking of which, go try DDO, I don't think they ever added raids. It's all groups.
Originally posted by Razorback I know Im late into this and I couldnt be bothered reading the whole thread (Mods priveledge ) But I have always had enourmous respect for BmQ. I played EQ1 for over 2 years and I played a Ranger (as I usually do in MMO's). I guess we fell in love because Brad is a Ranger fan too and Rangers in EQ1 really hit the mark for my money. I loved my Half Elf Ranger and if my entire guild hadnt moved to DAoC when it launched, I would have probably played EQ1 longer. I still never got that full set of Rubicite.... I remain hopeful about VSoH for one reason and one reason only.... and thats Brad. Im not a Fanboi.... Im just someone who recognises what must be respected and BmQ is up there with the Garriots in this industry. Love him or Hate him.... you have to respect his achievements.
Rubicite armor was removed from the game rather quickly, which leads me to a conflict in how to take your post.
Rubicite was removed from EQ with in the first couple years, and the Rangers in the game sucked for the first year or so atleast untill they got some tweaks. So not sure when you played, maybe right in the middle there?
Anyways, a friend of mine says the Rangers in V:SOH are kick butt, not sure if that kick-buttness will make it to release, but can only hope.
I quit maybe 3 or so months after Rubicite was removed, maybe longer... cant remember now...
Whether rangers sucked for the first 12-18 months is a matter of opinion I think. I never felt my character was lacking anything major. I was 43 when I quit and its still the best character to play I have played in any MMO. But the rose coulored rear view mirror prolly helps too
+-+-+-+-+-+ "MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol" http://purepwnage.com -+-+-+-+-+-+ "Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Originally posted by lordtwisted Hmm, you don't debate, you don't raid, you lock in an opinion about a game with in one week...if not in one day.
It sounds to me like you can't handle challenges. You want to live a long stress free life? Well good luck, you may live to 100, but your not going to enjoy it. Not bashing, just offering alternatives.
Again, judging me, with no other consideration. I don't like challenge? Sorry, but I solo stuff that drop Runes and level 65 spells in old EQ, stuff that can kill me in 1 tick and summon me, yet, I did solo them. Some casual guilds got their level 65 spells before many folks in uber guilds on my server. Yes, I was having a 5% success rate and I would die 20 times to succeed once, but that 1 time, it was droolicious. But of course, if you say I don't like challenge...
I prefer grouping however and grouping challenge, solo is only when grouping isn't available. However, in old EQ, I find the most challenging situation in solo, not in grouping and definitely not in raiding, raiding was easy and boring to death. But again, that is MY PERSONNAL experience.
The fact I dislike raiding doesn't mean squat about challenges, I loooooove challenges. But I choose what is a challenge and what doesn't deserve to be done, and after been a MAIN chanter for some uber guild, I can tell you, I will NEVER raid ever again, period.
I like Razor comment about Brad, however, I feel that much more for the whole crew, yeah Brad, but Steve and the other as well!
If I didn't like Vanguard, I wouldn't be repeating, over and over again, that I will play IF there is a raid-free server. However, been free from raiding, I mean COMPLETELY free, is a requirement. I will not play a game where I have to raid in order to group to the full extand, nope, never again.
Insults me or my employers as much as you like, I was soloing raid target before you where born! Young blood!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Comments
I thought they killed off the starcraft project...maybe it was just put off a bit? Warhammer I have to admit, I have not been following, but ..and I am going to ASSUME here again, that it will have the same fan base as WoW did, so yes, it could hurt WoW, wasn't Warhammer originally a strat game like warcraft was? So it should have mostly the same fan base, I would think.
I have to say, if all of WoW players came to Vanguard..atleast those that WoW was their first MMO, I think a small percentage would stay with Vanguard. I think that small percentage would find a whole new meaning to MMORPG, but the majority would hate Vanguard. It is a time investment, that a lot of people are not willing to make.
Not so nice guy!
What do you not understand? Maybe, here is an idea. Goto thotbott and maybe youll find a walk through kkthxbye.
Rites of the Four Horsemen
http://www.rotfh.com
Not so nice guy!
Tell me, will my girlfriend and I get married? Will we have children? To heck with it, just lend me your crystal ball.
World of Starcraft would be hella kewl, as long as it's not strategy. Fact is, you don't know any better than anyone else what will be the WoW killer. Likely, there won't ever be a WoW killer. WoW might be the last game to ever top 3 million subs. Certainly no one could have ever foreseen how many people would be playing WoW.
Blizzard is just a great company though, even though they made WoW.
ROFL I'm sorry but that was hilarious
Tell me, will my girlfriend and I get married? Will we have children? To heck with it, just lend me your crystal ball.
World of Starcraft would be hella kewl, as long as it's not strategy. Fact is, you don't know any better than anyone else what will be the WoW killer. Likely, there won't ever be a WoW killer. WoW might be the last game to ever top 3 million subs. Certainly no one could have ever foreseen how many people would be playing WoW.
Blizzard is just a great company though, even though they made WoW.
We are not spouting facts at you by anymeans. You have to read our post like business people read the new york times. We are guesstimating useing facts from the past charachter behavior of other games success and failures, and we are useing the current games fan base facts, etc... but the answers we use towards the future are pure guesstimates.
As far as you and your girlfriend, forget about it, just before Christmas this year, she finds out about you and that slut you met at your friend Carls poker party, and she dumps you. To your dismay, she is dumping you for the slut you were with at Carls poker party. Sorry.
Not so nice guy!
Nope, because raiding by awarding unfair rewards shaft all non-raiders. Peoples don't need a Vulmane free server since Vulmane don't get a reward that shaft everyone else.
The main idea, is to be ABLE to play the damn game. PvP was remove on some server, for good reasons. Raiding is even wronger than PvP, it crush HOPE. PvP and gankers never crush hope, yet raiding does just that. Raid-free server is definitely in order for peoples who won't raid for any reason.
If they refuse a raid-free server, they should enforce PvP on every server, no point to remove PvP if you still have raiding, as raiding is more detrimental on the players than PvP could be.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I disagree. I think PvP and Raiding is both a part of life in the games. The only reason non-PvP servers were developed, is because in the past <UO for one> If I want to play the game, but I don't want to partake in killing people..well, I had no choice, I would be killed wether I liked it or not.
Raiding is something done by choice. It doesn't effect you in any way. You say that raid loot is so much better then other loot. I don't see it. And the ones I have seen were usually things you could buy from another player.
And saying the Vulmanes don't give you an advantage, what if the Vulmane had a race bonus of +12 to stealth. Well, I want to be a rogue, but I don't want to play a Vulmane. So should I get a Vulmane free server?
If there are racial bonuses are we going to have to have a server with each race?
Not so nice guy!
Brad is worshipped like a minor eastern Pacific Island deity because he makes a decent MMO then after 6 months takes the money an runs. So when everyone starts to get bored playing and discovers the bugs and flaws and realise that it isn't "all that and a bag of potato chips", some poor new guy takes the flak. Players then start to chant in unison about "the good old days" when Brad was still there, and how this could never happen if he was here to use his omnipotent powers.
In my opinion Brad = a bail out early artists.
He gets all the praise and a golden parachute in the form of a buy out, then leaves the players in the lurch. He can create an MMORPG of that there is no doubt, but there's no evidence in my opinion that he knows his arse from his elbow when it comes to maintaining one. Perhaps Vanguard will prove otherwise and change my opinion, but I seriously doubt it.
VANGUARD: Sold Out Halfprice
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
This is where you are wrong. Raiding is not a CHOICE. If I want to be the most desired enchanter on the server for pick-up group, I have to raid. No matter if I like or not raiding. For pick-up GROUP, I have to raid? That is a nonsense! And these raiders even scorn on PUGs? PUGs are the ultimate test to grouping uberness. They don't deserve that uberness at all!
Vulmane advantage, even if it would be enormous implies no GAMEPLAY modification, you play a Vulmane and enjoy the SAME gameplay you like. Unlike raiding...a racial bonus doesn't enforce a gameplay. GAMEPLAYS justify different servers, and raid-free server is a MAJOR gameplay distinction.
Vanguard success would be exponential if they have raid-free servers, it would outmatch old EQ. Without such servers, it will be a good competitor for EVE! EQ had the PvE servers playing for it while competitors didn't. Vanguard needs such an edge, and raid-free servers is such an edge.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Deleted to keep the focus on the previous message.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
This is where you are wrong. Raiding is not a CHOICE. If I want to be the most desired enchanter on the server for pick-up group, I have to raid. No matter if I like or not raiding. For pick-up GROUP, I have to raid? That is a nonsense! And these raiders even scorn on PUGs? PUGs are the ultimate test to grouping uberness. They don't deserve that uberness at all!
Vulmane advantage, even if it would be enormous implies no GAMEPLAY modification, you play a Vulmane and enjoy the SAME gameplay you like. Unlike raiding...a racial bonus doesn't enforce a gameplay. GAMEPLAYS justify different servers, and raid-free server is a MAJOR gameplay distinction.
Vanguard success would be exponential if they have raid-free servers, it would outmatch old EQ. Without such servers, it will be a good competitor for EVE! EQ had the PvE servers playing for it while competitors didn't. Vanguard needs such an edge, and raid-free servers is such an edge.
So, your problem with raids being available is thet it provides better equipment, then standard groups, or even solo play. But you have not played this game as of yet to know this for a fact?
From what I understand craftsman will occasionally have a rare component or event slipped into the crafting process to create a rare and powerful item. So what makes you think raid items will be more bemificial then these?
On another note, Sigil has stated many times over, groups are their main concern, not raids, and not solo. So if this is the case, why would you assume that raid groups will receive better equipment. I can understand, baseing this assumption on previous games, it is a logical assumption.
I just don't think your going to see it as the problem you think it is going to be. But I am also assumeing. So until release, neither one of us is going to be proven correct. For your benifeit, I hope I am right.
Not so nice guy!
From what I understand craftsman will occasionally have a rare component or event slipped into the crafting process to create a rare and powerful item. So what makes you think raid items will be more bemificial then these?
On another note, Sigil has stated many times over, groups are their main concern, not raids, and not solo. So if this is the case, why would you assume that raid groups will receive better equipment. I can understand, baseing this assumption on previous games, it is a logical assumption.
I just don't think your going to see it as the problem you think it is going to be. But I am also assumeing. So until release, neither one of us is going to be proven correct. For your benifeit, I hope I am right.
Yes, raiding making peoples better at grouping is definitely a problem. Well, I am going to see this as a problem since I won't buy the game unless there is a non-raiding server. Brad already promise me raiding won't shaft grouping in EQ and EQ2, I won't trust him because he says so.
Your logic of: "Can't judge until you play" is flawed, since in that case I should buy A Tale in the Desert, even if I know that I will not like it, I didn't play it, so I can't judge.
See, I know that you will get 80% of the stuff in a month or two, then you will try to get the 20% of raiding stuff for LONGER. This is not something I find acceptable, tolerable or even bearable. It isn't. Even if I have to raid 10% of the time it is problematic and I REFUSE to raid. I will get second ranked groups, I will be weaker, I will be unaccomplish...there is no point in playing this game. I can't succeed if I don't raid. I want to be the BEST GROUPER! At least in stats if I lack otherwise!
Now, I may or not accomplish that, but I need to HOPE, and raiding remove this hope.
Trying to convince me isn't going to work, nor will you be able to convince anyone who experience raiding in WoW...we just don't want any of this ever again. NEVER AGAIN. Brad said countless time that SOME of the best items will require you to raid, otherwise you are doomed to be weaker by missing all the raid-acquired items. This is NOT acceptable, as I want to be the best grouper and work toward this without raiding once (which is a legitimate request, I don't want to be the best at everything, I want to be the best at grouping and I don't want to raid, not even once, very legetimate request).
20%, 50%, 100% or 1% been given to raiders = unacceptable. They can't be better at grouping then groupers, this is a nonsense.
Non-raiding servers are a must to save this game. (with all raid loot been redistributed in a group system or merchant)
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
as mister CEO dude puts it, "Nuff said"
I would like to say it has been nice debating with you. But it hasn't. There can not be a debate without having an open mind. I wish I could tell you that you are wrong about this game. But I can not. Not because you are right, but because there is no answer until the final version.
I would say, in a few months when you do break down and buy the game, because you will. Then look me up in game. But my guild and I will be on a PvP server. So that will not happen.
Whatever you do choose. Good luck with it.
Not so nice guy!
I agree with the first statement you made-most people see the good part of EQ and associate Brad with that but do not acknowledge the fact that the crap came from the same place. However since he is the producer of both good and bad I am going to give him the bennefit of the first series of bads being mistakes and if they repeat I know he does not care about how his clientail feels and will never buy a game that I know he is associated with again. There will no doubt be mistakes in every venture so I am not going to set myself up for disappiontment by holding a standard that cannot be attained.
As far as what is new about Vanguard? Alot is new, first off the totality of what is offered in Vanguard alone will offer a new experience: Flying mounts( not on rails but ones you control and can fly anywhere )small, medium and large boats that you and your crew control, player housing and city building, also the ability to play on more then a flat 3 dimensional plane I.E: Cities and dungeons in the sky and deep under the sea or underground, diplomatic bargaining and crafting. True many of these concepts are not altogether new ideas but they are now designed more thuroughly, with more thought and effort put into making sure these things are indeed fun. Crafting is not new but the experience of crafting in Vanguard will be new and certainly like nothing you have ever played( will it be fun or will it be stupid? I don't know I will have to try it out to find out ). Finally when you look at the game in it's total design it is ambitiously aiming for triple platinum here not a conservative silver, it is promising a whole new world and actually trying to give it.
Will it succeed? That is for us to decide
but I hope that we will give it a real chance and look at it with neutral eyes.
Everything that was good in EQ was due to Brad.
Everything that was bad in EQ was due to someone else.
Everything that was good in EQ2 was due to Brad.
Everything that was bad in EQ2 was due to someone else.
He's the greates man to ever walk the Earth.
These facts are all based on hard evidence which I can't find or link to you or prove in any way. You must just put on your rose colored glasses and have faith, brother.
All Hail Brad!
Seriously though...
Whenever Brad McQuaid is refered to people always point out his previous games: EQ and EQ2. For one, EQ is one of the most successful games ever. It was also a first try as a 3D MUD. It ALSO felt like much less of a grind than many of the other multiplayer games that were out at the time. It has been updated recently with graphics and new features, but short of rewriting the whole system, they can't upgrade the basic stuff to match the gameplay styles of newer games, so it is a very poor comparison to anything else that is coming out now.
EQ also wasn't all due to Brad McQuaid, who wasn't a game designer at the time, but instead the Producer and was only the CO-author of the design document. "Co-" means there was someone else involved in that process too. In fact, there were hundreds of people that worked on the game. There were even other designers of the game. You can quote any specific thing in the game and there's a chance that Brad designed it himself, but probably only at a high-level as he wrote the design document. Those ideas were likely fleshed out more by other designers.
As far as his involvement in EQ2, he *was* the creative director before he left the company in October 2001, and EQ2 wasn't released till November of 2004. That means that everything that might have been changed in those 37 months really didn't have anything to do with Brad, and it is impossible for us to know how much had changed in that much time. Instead if you have an opinion about EQ2, then you should find out who the Creative Director or Executive Producer on the game was during that time and give them equal credit.
Here's a quote from Vanguard's FAQs from Brad McQuaid:
[quote]Actually, I *was* the Creative Director and Executive Producer on EQ 2, as well as the author of the first EQ 2 design doc, from 1999 (its inception) to October 2001 when I left SOE. I was also the Producer on EQ 1 for its full development period, co-author of its design document...[/quote]
Even though this topic isn't about raiding, it seems that Anofalye is adept at working it in ANYWHERE. Go you.
As far as raiding goes, here's a quote from Anofalye, the heroine devoted to anti-raiding:
[quote]If I want to be the most desired enchanter on the server for pick-up group, I have to raid.[/quote]
That's absolutely true! I agree wholeheartedly! That's what they're going for, and how they retain customers. The point that you're making right here is that YOU DO HAVE A CHOICE of whether you want to try to be the most desired character on the server. I personally don't give a rat's ass about having the most desired character on the server. If you want to have that distinction, then you might as well join the olympics because it'll be almost as hard to obtain.
In the case that you take all raid gear and assign it elsewhere, that would just mean that everybody has this equipment (especially in the case where you just put it on a merchant, that's ridiculous!). Then, when everyone has the uber raiding equipment from non-raid activities, then YOU DON'T STAND OUT AT ALL!!! That defeats your whole goal of being "The Best", don't you think?
On the point of customer retention, which is a VERY big deal when it comes to games like this, I have a question for Anofalye, or anyone else who cares to answer:
Assuming that you have your non-raiding server, and you've gotten your 80% in the first couple months and then in the next month you get the additional 20% of stuff that was meant to be raiding content but is now group content because of your special server, How do you suggest the game company retains it's customers once they've reached thier maximum level? What will hold them there for another month or two or six or twelve till they can release new content? I'd sure like to know, and I'm sure the game company would like to hear it as well.
The only thing that I can think of to answer this question is this: Make the equipment all obtainable in a single-group-only setting but then reduce the already low drop rates to an even lower drop rate? If they didn't do that, then people would obtain everything, become bored, and leave. You might be able to figure out why "people leaving" is considered "bad" for a game company without me having to explain it to you.
Another question for you: Once all the characters on your special server have all of the raiding stuff that they've gotten thru just grouping, How do you feel that this will affect the Vanguard Community as a whole? I suppose everyone else could just accept that the people on those certain servers are a bunch of pansies. "Oh, you play on X-non-raid-server? *cough*PANSY!*cough*. You know that would be the community's feeling toward it. Are you alright with having that feeling directed toward you? I would even suggest that they name it the "Pansy Server" so that the average person wouldn't have to explain to you that you're a pansy because you'd already know it.
I understand that not everyone is in the anti-raiding mode, so you'll say that it's just this server. Alright, let's say that they do set up the non-raiding server. Then people play. Everyone reaches max level. People run out of things to do and start leaving. The population of the server drops to around half of a normal server. Now it is significantly less profitable for the game company to run this server. It might be good for a while, but then if they shut off the server, they'll piss off everyone on it who still wants to play. If they combine that server with any other server then they'll piss off everyone on the other server who actually had to raid to get the powerful items that the Pansies just grouped up for.
What do you think?
Any time I make predictions about future events, you may assume they are my personal opinion and that I am not a psychic.
But, since you asked, and it's Halloween, let me gaze into my crystal ball ....
I see something in the haze ... it's your girlfriend ... she's saying something .... trying to make it out ....
"That's it Ana, I'm outta here. All you do is play Vanguard and argue with Amathe. We're through!"
Ouch. Tough break bro. You can console yourself someday playing World of Starcraft with me and 10 million other people.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Any time I make predictions about future events, you may assume they are my personal opinion and that I am not a psychic.
But, since you asked, and it's Halloween, let me gaze into my crystal ball ....
I see something in the haze ... it's your girlfriend ... she's saying something .... trying to make it out ....
"That's it Ana, I'm outta here. All you do is play Vanguard and argue with Amathe. We're through!"
Ouch. Tough break bro. You can console yourself someday playing World of Starcraft with me and 10 million other people.
LOL! Come on anarchyart, you gotta admit that was pretty funny. Good to see that we can still have a bit of humor on this forum.
Well, peoples leaving happy would be better than a FEW peoples staying for raids and MOST leaving unhappy. The state of SoE should have teach folks a lesson or two about having peoples leaving the game unhappy because of a "ending in a raiding gameplay". Yet, there is no easy way out, if you want peoples to stay a LONG time and keep them playing, there is only 1 solution, and it involve a LOT of work, a LOT of update. You should also be careful to keep old content nice, unlike EQ. So a level cap on every zone and working similarly around gear is the way to keep that old content always nice for a new player, never outdated, and giving goals to a wide arrays of players...if someone can MAX Crushbone, then this is something, they may aim for that goal...later they may or not aim for a harder goal. Especially that they know, nobody is better than them in Crushbone if they max everything, this is something every casual can enjoy...and hardcore like me only smile and will race to max the hardest places.
And no, I will not buy and play the game Lordtwisted, unless they have raid-free server. Believe me or not, but after buying EQ2 and leaving in a week, buying WoW and leaving on the next day...I don't see why I should bother to buy another game that enforce raiding on groupers. No thanks. Grouping uberness, all of it, belong to groupers, not to raiders. (and IF I can try it in beta, considering I play WoW 1 day, do you think I feel any urge to try it, now that is a big IF, but we like supposing, don't we? Yet, a gamer with dozens of friends, what are the odds that I don't see ANY game in Beta? Especially that I work, in the game industry, so my work collegues, may after the job, try many different games, don't you think?)
I give an explanation, I don't debate. Sorry if anyone was thinking it is a debate, it isn't for me. It is an explanation. Now you keep arguing and talking and trying to convince me, I keep explaining why your logic fails and won't succeed.
See, even if I have a moment of weakness, I will not buy Vanguard, I will return to CoV. That is as simple as it is. Vanguard with raiding enforced can't beat CoV in my personnal hopes for a good game. Unless there is a raid-free server, in which case it isn't a moment of weakness, but hope for something fun.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
I know Im late into this and I couldnt be bothered reading the whole thread (Mods priveledge
)
But I have always had enourmous respect for BmQ.
I played EQ1 for over 2 years and I played a Ranger (as I usually do in MMO's). I guess we fell in love because Brad is a Ranger fan too and Rangers in EQ1 really hit the mark for my money. I loved my Half Elf Ranger and if my entire guild hadnt moved to DAoC when it launched, I would have probably played EQ1 longer. I still never got that full set of Rubicite....
I remain hopeful about VSoH for one reason and one reason only.... and thats Brad.
Im not a Fanboi.... Im just someone who recognises what must be respected and BmQ is up there with the Garriots in this industry. Love him or Hate him.... you have to respect his achievements.
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Hmm, you don't debate, you don't raid, you lock in an opinion about a game with in one week...if not in one day.
It sounds to me like you can't handle challenges. You want to live a long stress free life? Well good luck, you may live to 100, but your not going to enjoy it.
Not sure what part of the game industry you work in but I hope it's not as a critic, because a critic must be open minded, and that you are not.
As far as the state of SOE, do you consider them a failure? I could only hope to fail as well as they did, probablly bring in more then most other game companies, don't tell me they don't because WoW has 50% of the mmo market, SOE has their hands into a hell of a lot more games in many markets. They have the second longest running MMO on the market, and probablly the most added content of any publisher.
SOE may have made mistakes in the past, but neglecting the few raid free radicals is not one of them. You want a raid free server, buy Diablo or something, maybe you and your few friends you like to group with should just consider LAN parties? Maybe a little pen and paper D&D. Might be a better match. Speaking of which, go try DDO, I don't think they ever added raids. It's all groups.
Not bashing, just offering alternatives.
Not so nice guy!
Rubicite armor was removed from the game rather quickly, which leads me to a conflict in how to take your post.
Rubicite was removed from EQ with in the first couple years, and the Rangers in the game sucked for the first year or so atleast untill they got some tweaks. So not sure when you played, maybe right in the middle there?
Anyways, a friend of mine says the Rangers in V:SOH are kick butt, not sure if that kick-buttness will make it to release, but can only hope.
Not so nice guy!
I quit maybe 3 or so months after Rubicite was removed, maybe longer... cant remember now...
Whether rangers sucked for the first 12-18 months is a matter of opinion I think. I never felt my character was lacking anything major. I was 43 when I quit and its still the best character to play I have played in any MMO. But the rose coulored rear view mirror prolly helps too
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"MMOs, for people that like think chatting is like a skill or something, rotflol"
http://purepwnage.com
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"Far away across the field, the tolling of the iron bell, calls the faithful to their knees. To hear the softly spoken magic spell" Pink Floyd-Dark Side of the Moon
Well, Rangers sucked, was probablly a bit of an over statement. How about for a long time they lacked damage, and utility.
I think you will like VG though.
Not so nice guy!
Again, judging me, with no other consideration. I don't like challenge? Sorry, but I solo stuff that drop Runes and level 65 spells in old EQ, stuff that can kill me in 1 tick and summon me, yet, I did solo them. Some casual guilds got their level 65 spells before many folks in uber guilds on my server. Yes, I was having a 5% success rate and I would die 20 times to succeed once, but that 1 time, it was droolicious. But of course, if you say I don't like challenge...
I prefer grouping however and grouping challenge, solo is only when grouping isn't available. However, in old EQ, I find the most challenging situation in solo, not in grouping and definitely not in raiding, raiding was easy and boring to death. But again, that is MY PERSONNAL experience.
The fact I dislike raiding doesn't mean squat about challenges, I loooooove challenges. But I choose what is a challenge and what doesn't deserve to be done, and after been a MAIN chanter for some uber guild, I can tell you, I will NEVER raid ever again, period.
I like Razor comment about Brad, however, I feel that much more for the whole crew, yeah Brad, but Steve and the other as well!
If I didn't like Vanguard, I wouldn't be repeating, over and over again, that I will play IF there is a raid-free server.
However, been free from raiding, I mean COMPLETELY free, is a requirement. I will not play a game where I have to raid in order to group to the full extand, nope, never again.
Insults me or my employers as much as you like, I was soloing raid target before you where born! Young blood!
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren