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Smeds Blog today... intresting words...
iskareot
Member Posts: 2,143
http://stationblog.wordpress.com/2006/10/26/personal-responsibility/
Today I saw a link to this blog up on Slashdot:
http://soulkerfuffle.blogspot.com/2006/10/view-from-top.html
Over the years I have heard the loud echoes of this sort of sentiment. Just look at the headline on Slashdot
How Warcraft really does wreck lives
Reading this guys personal experience does make it sound as though it was the game itself that lead to him gaining 30 pounds, not playing the guitar anymore or doing Kung Fu.
Its the games fault. Its not my fault. The game made me do it. Games encourage kids to go out on murdering sprees and on and on and on.
At what point do personal choices come into the picture here? This gentleman clearly made life choices about what he wanted to do with his time. I respect that. I even can respect the position that some people play these games too much, because I personally think thats true. But the game isnt making them do anything. The game isnt designed to keep people playing. Its only designed to entertain them.
I actually think its the other way around. People are designed that way.
When we as humans find something we like to do, we want to keep doing it.
It really is that simple.
Its in our DNA. Are some people more prone then others to getting hooked on these kinds of games? Maybe. But there are plenty of people who are hooked on NFL Football and dont want to hear from their family on Sundays because they are busy watching the game.
In my younger days I can say I was hooked on Dungeons and Dragons. It was an obsession. The same was true of my first online game (Simutronics Cyberstrike) and Magic: The Gathering was a bigtime passion of mine and many of my friends for a long long time. I spent way too much money on buying those cards. To some of you maybe these were obsessions of yours too. I certainly dont blame any of those games for the time I lost to them. They were some of the best times I had with my friends and also contributed greatly to the kinds of things I like to do now.
I think its all the same in the end. We all have to make our own choices. I dont believe for a second that WoW (or any other MMO including our own) is designed to get people hooked.
Its a game.
Its supposed to be fun and it is.
If it becomes an obsession for some people, thats something they need to think about changing for themselves. As gamemakers our job is to make great, fun and challenging games. This isnt the moral equivalent of the Manhattan Project where we have game designers saying this is just too fun the world will be a worse off place if we make it too fun.
Its a game.
Smed
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
Comments
And for once, age makes no difference here, it happens to people aged 12 and people aged 50.
Good to see some things never change, there is still no lie too big that Smed would even mildly choke on it.
Interesting, indeed. But not too surprising, all things considered. Of the two sides, the addicts tend to blame the providers, and the providers blame the addicts. Not much different from drugs or alcohol, with the major exception that it's not the game itself causing the damage, it's the addict's response to the game. Playing a game for 5 hours, 5 days, or 5 weeks in and of itself causes me no damage. Smoking crack for that time, though, or drinking alcohol, will mess me up pretty bad. I have to side with Smed in this one. Ugh, unclean, unclean!
Edit: You have to admit the NGE is NOT designed to keep anyone playing.
There's a sucker born every minute. - P.T. Barnum
I don't know, insofar as SWG these days, he is certainly telling the truth.
Yeah, but I don't attribute that to any intent on the part of Smed's crew. You don't put lengthy, repetitive grinding into a game so that people WON'T keep playing. Gimme a fracking break, Smed.
Correct.
______________________________
I usually picture the Career builder commercial with the room full of monkeys and upside down sales chart when thinking about the SOE/SWG decision making process.....
SOE's John Blakely and Todd Fiala issued a warning: "Don't make our mistakes." Ref NGE
Winner of the worst MMOS goes to.... the NGE and SWG..!!! http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm?loadFeature=1034&bhcp=1
I agree that it isn't the game's fault if a player becomes too involved
in it. I find it hard to believe Mr. Smedley feels that way
considering the NGE was obviously designed to prevent just that sort of
addiction.
DON'T YOU SEE?????
Smed is saving us all! Killing our game saved our lives.....IT IS SO CLEAR TO ME NOW! What a guy, he really cares enough to KILL his bottomline to get our sorry asses off the computer. Why won't he just come out and say it?
/hug Smed
Please note the value of unintended irony and sarcasm in the above post.
There's free love on the Freelove Freeway.
NOW you realize that!
Shayde - SWG (dead)
Proud member of the Cabal.
It sounds great, so great in fact, I pitty those who canceled
I don't like it when you say things. - A Vanguard fan who does too.
09f911029d74e35bd84156c5635688c0
Interesting, I just recently posted (link) about this issue.
While I agree that the end level grind is meant to keep people subscribing to the game, I think that it provides no reason to continue paying for it after the max level is reached; and every class is tried.
So...Smed might be telling the truth...from a certain point of view.
Slot machines are games too. It is funny how the casino owners said and are saying the same things today about gambling, as MMO people like Smed are saying about MMOs.
However, don't think for one moment that the casino isn't designed to keep people in there, spending money, through the use of psychological conditioning so subtle, you do not even realize it.
And just as the casino is purpose-built to extract money out of human beings on a continual and habitual basis, so too are MMOs designed to do the same thing.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
yes there is a book on casino design its about 3k pages long, covering everything from floor designs to lighting to layout of slot machines, but its the responsibility of the people playing to decide how much there entertainment value is worth (ie how much to gamble).
and yes mmo's are designed to keep people playing, but its the individuals responsibility to understand when enjoyment becomes an obsession.
take responsibility for yourself and be responsible, dont blame others for what they have no control over. its not like they forced people to play with a gun to there head.
sorry for the rant but i get tired of hearing people blame others for there poor judgement. /rant off
Have a nice day
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Good discussion but, casinos arent built by the winners those 2 to 4 billion dollar casinos are built on peoples losses, anyone walking into one knows that, casinos and mmo's (and alot of other things i wont go into) give you the opportunity to play but its still your decision no one elses if you play, and if, in the case of casinos when, you lose, a person can only blame themselves.
Places can provide opportunity but not the decision to play to excess, thats the players decision.
ive heard the same arguments from drunk drivers at accident scenes. after all is said and done, they shoulda taken a cab. there decision.
Starwars Galaxies, An Empier Diveded, That's what it says on my box anyway.
I really liked this post so QFE.
Casinos contribute alot of coin to anti-gambling and responsible gambling ads and programs because they are aware of the social and economic impact that gambling has. Maybe game companies should feel some responsibility to do the same for its users who have addictive behavior that is negative socially and economically before the government does find video games have addictive qualities and find themselves buried in lawsuits.
Playing: Everthing
Played: DAoC,AC2,EvE,SWG,WAR,MXO,CoX,EQ2,L2,LOTRO,SB,UO,WoW.
I have played every MMO that has ever come out.
This is part of the same logic blaming a big mac for making you fat....YOU made you fat, don't blame the burger, put down the milkshake and walk around the block.
I personally like what MMOs have done for me. It has provided an outlet for my wife and I and we have saved a ton of cash by simply not going out. My wife used to have a gambling problem. SWG cured it. After NGE we moved on, but we still play mmos, simply because, for the price of one DVD movie, we are entertained all month, and are able to put aside a couple hundred dollars a month we would have lost at the casino.
If you become addicted to a game, that's your own issue to deal with. To be honest, it is one of the least destructive addictions out there, but as in all things, you gotta know when to stop for a little bit.
I think what is overlooked is some of the benefits of playing. My wife got disabled when we were rear ended by a cop. That meant she couldn't go back to work, so she would be basically shut in everyday. This drove her nuts, when one of our friends started playing SWG, I started playing and she saw the fun I was having and we got her an account. After that she was able to hang out with our friends and make new friends online. We play the same games and have a core group of friends that have all gone from SWG to CoV to WOW together. I could also see how some shut ins and disabled are able to carry out relationships and friendships, and maybe gain a little confidence when dealing with real life people. I have seen a change in some of my more bookish friends that played SWG. As in all things, you get what you put into it. if you are weak-willed enough to let the game control you, then you have some serious underlying issues, and it's probably best that you are at home and out in public.
That guys post hit home in a big way for me, I went through a similar experience with SWG myself. Here's my perspective and experience with the same situation.
I was working at a job that was KILLING me (I made alot of money and the health insurance was cheap and good, but not worth the problems), I have always had depression issues (which I recently learned how to recognize from past/present behavior)....... so to the meat of the matter
So when galaxies was announced, like every other SW freak I was drooling, eventually it came out and I got it on July 3rd of 03. I was very excited and immediately saw how I could end up spending alot of time there. And I did.
For me Galaxies was a way to have a modicum of control in my life that RL was not able to provide to me at the time. In the game I was a fairly well respected Weapon smith and was a part of a great guild with alot of people from all US timezones, Au, UK, and Europe. I spent alot of time making sure my guildmates had the best weaponry I was able to craft, either for free or the cost of enhancements. Eventually through my dedication to our guild and city I was elected guild leader for everything that I did to support guildmates.
By this time I was playing with the following play sched: 5:30-6PM to 11-11:30 PM M-T, 5:30-6PM - 1-4AM Fridays. 8AM-1-2AM Sat, and Sunday pretty much all day too.
This went on for almost 2 years, in the meantime I was in a serious relationship that had been healthy and going forward for about 6 years. And we eventually ended up married (the best decision I have made in my life so far).
After awhile, I was unable to interact with my significant other well, which eventually lead to problems in our relationship (as you can guess). Also my job got to the point that I was so stressed by it that I would be physically ill within 15 minutes of walking through the door. As well as not wanting to leave the house at all for anything (even going to the grocery store) I was becoming VERY introverted, and misanthropic.
During this time, we were planning our escape from a decent sized Midwest city to a comparable sized Pacific NW city, as this was progressing I was becoming more of a self centered/self-interested asshole. I got a relatively large bonus that had been promised for 4 years, and finally delivered. So As soon as I cashed the check (didn't trust the company enough to deposit it). I put in my 2 weeks, and we finished the plans to move, and got the ball rolling. Moved to said city (Stumptown) and my behavior did not change. She decided it was time for a change, a change without me........
So we ended up having major relationship issues which ended up with her moving out for a couple of months, and finally coming back after I told her that I wanted to end the lease on the apt, we were living in so I could move to a house that was shared by 4 ppl w/an extra room...... Needless to say this was less healthy than when she moved out, and ended up separating within 4 months, and we are still not living together today. Although we still see each other and talk every day (divorce was talked about but it wasn't something that either of us want/wanted)......
For me, the MMO world was the ultimate escape from a life that was not providing me with what I wanted/needed from it, and gave me a sense of accomplishment, and activism that I felt real life could not provide, and I got lost in that world.
Do I regret the time/issues that I allowed myself to fall lose/into? Yes, and No. I regret making the most important person in my life feel like the least important and less than significant. I do not regret the full sense of community I felt truly for the first time (<------old punk too, so I do remember the early community in my scene in the mid 80's) and the feeling of my impact on that community that I had through helping my guildmates accomplish the goals that they themselves were seeking, and our guild as a collective were seeking......... Experiences like this make me want to go out into my own RL community to help make social change there, in a valid tangible way instead of an intangible world.
Finally SOE made the choice for me to leave the intangible world of pixels, to rejoin the tangible world of real life experiences, with the introduction of the NGE.
Do I blame anyone but myself for allowing myself to go into the downward spiral I fell into?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!
This was a conscious decision I made for myself, and I have assumed ALL responsibility for all of the side effects of the addictive side of a game, to fill in the spaces that real life was not providing for me.
To me, people that blame other influences and ideas is WEAK, and irresponsible. We as a society need to stop with the "not me" or "it's their fault" behavior that is dragging us further into government control and laws to further "protect" us from society at large.
Oh, on the note of the physical side effects, I too packed on about 45 pounds during my sedentary time in game, but QUICKLY lost after I took the initiative to change my habits, and stopped driving, and relied on my Bike, feet, and pubtrans to get me where I wanted to go. So in other words, get off your fat-ass and do something :P
Agit, thanks for sharing your story. I feel for you and wish you the best as you take responsibility for your actions and strive to make things right. I am a High School teacher and I see the blame game played more and more each year. I truly fear for the generations that we are raising that have NO IDEA and ZERO CONCEPT of what personal accountablity is and have no inclination to learn.
KUDOS to you and best of luck!
There's free love on the Freelove Freeway.
Can you explain how you can say something is addictive and then say they have no responsibility as a company who sells the addictive product to educate and helping those who get addicted to a product they are selling?
The reason "food" cannot be addictive is you are not addicted to food but to over eating. It is classified as an eating disorder just like Bulemeia(Sp?) and anarexia(sp?). Eating disorders are treated in similar fashions as addictions to drugs or alcohol.
I mean are you saying video games are addictive? You seem to be. Then you say its harmless addiction. People are reporting lossing, jobs, wifes, families, friends, and health with the addiction to playing video games. How is that harmless?
This will probably get me flamed but ... from all ive read there are two types of addiction physical and mental, Heroin causes a physical addiction, an actual physical change in the nervouse system(thickening of nerve in the brain that relates to euphoria)this is why a addict needs more over time to get the same high feeling.
mental addictions are just a persons unwillingness to quit doing something they know is bad for them whether its video games gambling or other destructive behavior(to them not neccessarily others doing the same thing).
People cause there own mental addictions by allowing a hobby to become a obssession.
And the first part of overcoming any addiction is admitting you have one,and while companies producing games allow the opportunity for addiction,and to some people anything can be addictive, its the player that makes it an addiction.