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So what do you think of the changes?

TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905

The patch this week actually changes one of the "core" aspects of Lineage II. Item drop. Gone are the days of worrying about loosing your stuff to mobs and other players, and the addition of a death penalty (a rather harsh one that accumulates and is perminate until you pay to have it removed at that) in its place (except for red players who still drop although at a reduced chance)

Again, everything has been altered with the addition of even more of the "power up" insta pots that drop off of mobs making leveling even faster and reducing downtime to almost nothing.

The availibilty of Mana pots and insta heal pots in the shops and everything else.

The list of changes goes on and on.

What you guys think of it so far??? Good, bad???

«1

Comments

  • SantaClaws48SantaClaws48 Member Posts: 280
    Some are good, like the buff slots. The no dropping gear sucks. Taking people's gear when they die to mobs or when you train them is a great way to start wars and get pvp going.


  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,223
    I am not playing currently, but I guess the game is so much easier now. I don't see a point to change the
    "core" of L2 at this moment in the game, but oh well.

    Sorry this post was useless. I'm taking a hiatus and I am not sure if I will come back.

    Cryomatrix



    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
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  • AlthiaAlthia Member Posts: 32
    Ok not sure where you got your info from Cry but i am not so sure that the game got easier or that the core of the game has changed...

    Hell I am cardinal and I am still squishy.  People still die in pvp *grin* got a fraps to prove that ^_^   The only thing the new cp pots have done is drawn out the fights which is hot as most fights only last a minute max. 

    If anything the game just became more demanding money wise as most will have to craft mp pots and hp pots now.  Buy summoning crystals.  hunt raid bosses including the epic ones just to get one the four extra buff spots.  Its forcing the hard core pvper into some of the content in the game that can other wise be ignored...


    so unless you describe how exactly you think the game got easier your right your post was pointless image no offense or anything *grin*



  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905



    Originally posted by Althia
    Ok not sure where you got your info from Cry but i am not so sure that the game got easier or that the core of the game has changed...

    Hell I am cardinal and I am still squishy.  People still die in pvp *grin* got a fraps to prove that ^_^   The only thing the new cp pots have done is drawn out the fights which is hot as most fights only last a minute max. 

    If anything the game just became more demanding money wise as most will have to craft mp pots and hp pots now.  Buy summoning crystals.  hunt raid bosses including the epic ones just to get one the four extra buff spots.  Its forcing the hard core pvper into some of the content in the game that can other wise be ignored...


    so unless you describe how exactly you think the game got easier your right your post was pointless image no offense or anything *grin*



    Well, Im the one who said "core aspect" and I referred only to item drop as a core aspect, which IMHO it was. Not that I will miss it personally lol, I lost a few good things in my time BUT it does change the entire "tone" of the game to a degree. Much of the "risk" is gone. (or the illusion of risk) Now its just semi FFA PKing like everything else out there.   

    Also the only really rewarding reason to harrass bots is gone. Nothing beat getting a drop from those bastards. That is the primary thing that bothers me about the change. Sure they get a death penalty now but so what? You can already see the bot hunting "cooling off".  

    Nothing really made the game "easier" in fact they did add many more money sinks. Even the event is a money sink. I dropped at least a million trying to get that stupid mask and horns.

    It does improve the soloing but they did that in the C5 patch as well. This just builds on it a little. No nothing has really changed, all they did was add more crap to buy in reality lol. The hidious grind was never a part of the game that made it easy or difficult. Its just an endurance game. Its like natural selection, the weak ones drop out and the ones who can endure survive. Kinda silly if you ask me, but thats the way its designed.

    If they are going to go "soft core" on the PvP they will need to go "soft core" on the grind as well. Now that the risk is gone, its gonna get reallyyyyy dull...........

    One thing I am wondering about is the economic impact the change will have. Since item drop has effectively been eliminated for the "white" player, demand will go down for some things like armor and other items I would imagine. Will prices inflate or will they stay level or decrease?

  • AlthiaAlthia Member Posts: 32

    lol survival of the fittest i like that *grin*

    As far as the game economy goes I have no clue what will happen and this is why:

    1. people will continue to blow things up as far as equipment goes so as long as things continue to made people will continue to buy
    2. Crafters will still craft and because most are  patient S.O.Bs they will wait for the one person that pays the price that they set
    3. The money sinks in the game are a good thing, why?
      • people with money will spend on pots and what not
      • People without money will not and will still survive without just as before
    4. And farms well they drop things but its never really that high of quality to begin with >.<

              So much of the game revolves around who has the most money that I feel that NcSoft is trying to flush out some of the abundance of adena

    for PVP I am assuming you do it a lot... lol and I will tell you what, having those cp pots and hp pots are hot…fights last long enough that more than three skills go off and I actually have time to heal, trance and mana burn.... one thing about sieges that was better  than pvp was that it was an on going fight now that has slightly changed and I likie ^_^ but I do see your point...

     
    But like all things new I think for a while it will be those who can afford it will that will win fights and those who can't will have a bit harder time... Needless to say it will work its way out and like all things that have happened to L2, we might complain for a bit but the community is resilient and no matter what change, either for the better or worse, people figure out how to live with it and make it to their advantage…. ^_^

  • GreatnessGreatness Member UncommonPosts: 2,180
    Lineage 2 is getting softer and softer by the days. I liked the old, hardcore days (where it took like 10 years to get to level 20 in cloesd betaimage atleast for me. Was quite fun actually since had some nice partying going on). The PvP is part of the softer Lineage 2. No item drop? So.. training bots is pretty much pointless?


    ~Greatness~

    Currently Playing:
    Nothing

  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905



    Originally posted by Althia

    lol survival of the fittest i like that *grin*
    well not really the "fittest" but the person with the most tolerance

    As far as the game economy goes I have no clue what will happen and this is why:

    people will continue to blow things up as far as equipment goes so as long as things continue to made people will continue to buy
    Crafters will still craft and because most are  patient S.O.Bs they will wait for the one person that pays the price that they set
    The money sinks in the game are a good thing, why?

    people with money will spend on pots and what not
    People without money will not and will still survive without just as before
    And farms well they drop things but its never really that high of quality to begin with >.<
    Yeah, dunno either, I figure its an opportunity for people to raise prices lol
              So much of the game revolves around who has the most money that I feel that NcSoft is trying to flush out some of the abundance of adena

    for PVP I am assuming you do it a lot... lol and I will tell you what, having those cp pots and hp pots are hot…fights last long enough that more than three skills go off and I actually have time to heal, trance and mana burn.... one thing about sieges that was better  than pvp was that it was an on going fight now that has slightly changed and I likie ^_^ but I do see your point...
    I never pick a fight lol but somehow I always seem to be getting into one lately. The main thing lately has been "trainers" in the branded. I usually XP in there with 4 or 5 guildies and I'll be damned if I'm going to let some jerk get away with training us. I don't care if they are wearing B grade I'm taking a "shield bash" on him.  I also had no problem killing bots. On top of it, we have a few guildies who don't know when to shut the f*ck up so that usually gets ugly....image 

    But like all things new I think for a while it will be those who can afford it will that will win fights and those who can't will have a bit harder time... Needless to say it will work its way out and like all things that have happened to L2, we might complain for a bit but the community is resilient and no matter what change, either for the better or worse, people figure out how to live with it and make it to their advantage…. ^_^
    Yeah, no mechanics where changed...its just the addition of money sinks.
    Overall the only thing that has impacted me is........the event lol. Like I said, I'm minus about 1 million adena now buying the garbage mask and horns and all that little crap you get. Cause I hunt in a party I don't need pots, we have 2 healers, we hunt in catacombs so no insta-pots drop...I think the healers might be using the mana - pots but not that I noticed. We still took breaks mainly because we are not machines lol and you can only slaughter mobs for so long.
    Leveling is still god awful slowimage Maybe one day I will actually get a chance to solo and personally see if its faster that way.
    I think the insta pots are a very good idea. I think the no-drop for whites isn't such a good idea. Its to late for NCSoft to make this game "softer" to appeal to a larger audiance. They need to clean it up first and prevent bots somehow. Its to big of a problem and they don't mass ban enough.  The bots are catching up to us from the last mass ban and the catacombs are filling up again. We report and wait.............and wait.........and wait (and train lol) but now even training isn't worth it. At least before you could make yourself feel better about waiting because at least you might get something off the bots like his SS stack, mat stack or piece of armor. Now you just get him a death penalty (which means it will probably die more but I want his stuff)




  • AlthiaAlthia Member Posts: 32
    god the old days make these days look like a joke but i will tell you what a a healer i would not go back period though cruma days and toi days were the freaking best!


  • AlthiaAlthia Member Posts: 32
    hey torak what server are you on?


  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905
    Teon. I live in Germany.  
  • AlthiaAlthia Member Posts: 32
    Ah ok well you and i both know that different server means different economy/playstyle/ and all our everything *grin* i i was curious ^_^


  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937

    Well,the herbs make less downtime which I actually kind of like.

    I'm also for the "no dropping" as I never had fun running back to get my weapon, only to get killed again.

     

    I guess i'm not an adrenaline junky

     

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  • BlazerXBlazerX Member UncommonPosts: 86

    Don't know about the latest changs, I quit right before c5 came out.  I don't really care for this game anymore and I won't go back to it.  After putting up with the BOTS and NCSOFT always bashing on LEGIT players, it got tiresome and they still have not changed from what I hear.  My friends still play...

    Have played it since BETA, for a very long time...multiple 60 level characters, 1 main in the upper 70s.  Realized one day that after playing for 2 or 3 years gaining my fortune in game legit and buying one of the most powerful weapons on my server BARTZ with LEGIT money, I lost it because I failed to control my anger against some BOTS who were constantly training me for 2 hours in game.  Killed em, went red and the BOT friends jumped me.  Guess what happened next?  I dropped the weapon I had bought legit that I have worked my ass for for couple a couple months...in less than 1 minute of play.  After that I thought, WHAT THE HELL AM I DOING?

    I realize I didn't care to be a masochist, and i realized that NCSOFT really doesn't care jack shit about any of their LEGIT playerbase.  The bot in question that got my weapon and trained me for hours was the same group I had been petitioning for several months (not every day...but every so often when I saw them).  They would ALWAYS pull massive trains at ABG..it was just ridiculous.

    I still like Lineage 2 the game and the story about it.  Hell I'm a die hard fan of their cinematics but as for the company itself, NCSOFT?  I hope they go to hell in a handbasket.  That is an honest opinion from a disillusioned die hard fan.

    Oh and if you think I quit because I didn't have resources, heh thats not the case.  I still had over 1 bilion adena in equipment and adena in game combined when I left.  I did really great playing the market...lets say I had quite a talent for it...haha...I gave it all away to my best friend though and have not since renewed or looked back, although I still read the forums for fun.  cheers...

    Rha 

  • AlthiaAlthia Member Posts: 32
    If I had quit everytime i lost gear... /sigh.. Though what you say Blazer sucks.. I can understand your feeling though on Kain i can't really say that i have seen the bots train us its usually always the other way around... The only explination i have for that is that its not bots in the true since of the word like farmers but other players in your communty that are botting a party up... Most farmers don't care to much for causing trouble, well atleast on kain and will often give up trying to hold a room if you harasse them enough... 

    Ok don't get mad but i gotta ask.. You just bought like the best weapon in game you had billions of adenas and you didn't Bsoe?  image  and trains in ABG was one of the best ways to aoe xp >.< you don't in trouble for pulling trains... its just good xp tactics...

    I am sorry you choose to quit because of this but its people who give up that just make way for more farmers.  While I agree that if everyone that hated botters and farmers all quit it would make a huge impact on NcSofts pocket books one or two wont even register.. Especially now... I know several people on kain that have had entire parties banned and just start 5 new accounts and start over agian until they have their bots to 78 for parties and raiding... *shrugs* so now i wonder if the people who enjoy the challenge of setting up the perfect bot group and gaining the fast xp possible in the shortest amount of time don't out number those who don't like the affor mentioned play style.  for most non farmer botters it isn't about adena its about xp and if its about xp then there are ways to harrass them and set them back for days... ^_^ trust me I know nothing like peacing a bunch of social mobs right next to a botter and watching them fall down, sending them a 0% rez to watch them do it again and again.


    I am not for botting and I am not for scamming and i am not for adena buying as i have gotten where i am with out the need of any of the above and if i can do it then so can other casual gamers.  I quit to once right before C5 but i am back because nothing else compared to the game dynamics and graphics... L2 got it right. and like i said in a different thread it is unfortunatle that 10 people working to better game guard just can't keep ahead of 1,000 people working against game guard.image



  • BlazerXBlazerX Member UncommonPosts: 86
    well I lost a +15 lance.  Its way above the "everytime I lost gear" argument.  When you lose something like that, you just feel totally demoralized and the game becomes meaningless.  Like I said I still had over 1 billion adena but when you can lose it in 1 min beause of BOTS griefing you and NCSOFT doesn't do jack shit about it, there really is no point in fighting a system that is already rigged against LEGIT players.
  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,223
    Yo Althia,



    what server are you on. Blazer, Althia, how did you make your money,
    I'm interested in seeing how people make their money. I hope i can
    learn a few things. I think that making money was easier back in the
    day, or so I here, I find it kind of difficult now, not that I dont'
    make money, but it's kind of slow. Oh yeah, I'm on Hindemith, and I
    roll under the name Qais. i'm six months into the game, yay.



    Cryomatrix


    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • TymoraTymora Member UncommonPosts: 1,295



    Originally posted by SantaClaws48
    Some are good, like the buff slots. The no dropping gear sucks. Taking people's gear when they die to mobs or when you train them is a great way to start wars and get pvp going.



    Taking loot that has fallen due to a lost battle with a mob is one thing, but training someone I consider griefing, and one of the reasons why I don't play Lineage II.  The change that prevents this behavior sounds good to me.

    I liked the intant heal pots in RF Online, so they sound good for Lineage II also.  I never did like the long downtimes.  I also like how the changes dont necessarily make L2 a sissy mmo, it still sounds pretty hardcore to me.  I may have to check it out again.

  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,223
    By training players he means that most people will train bots. It's very rare to be trained by another player. I'm lvl 69 and i've been trained in two instances, in the same catacomb, by the same douche bags. it's very rare.

    Most people trained bots :).

    Qais



    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905



    Originally posted by Cryomatrix
    By training players he means that most people will train bots. It's very rare to be trained by another player. I'm lvl 69 and i've been trained in two instances, in the same catacomb, by the same douche bags. it's very rare.

    Most people trained bots :).

    Qais



    On our server it was (and still is) pretty common for live players to be trained by asshats inthe catacombs. We had a few "professional" trainers that targeted everyone for the drops. If we where lucky I could stun the guy.  You would see them in town every few days selling assorted bits of loot, probably drops from players.

    F*ck you Th1ef, you never got us and we killed you several times!!! You f*cking noob! Did you like that stun as*wipe??? Just stand still and take a smoke break while we kill your idiot a*s!  image

    Anyway, your lucky if you didn't get trained a whole lot. I was starting to call this game trainage II

  • TymoraTymora Member UncommonPosts: 1,295
    Oh!  I misunderstood.  Then I applaud the training of bots!  Keep them comin'.  The fact that bots are still around is a very bad sign though.   I thought that the changes would be such an improvement that might convince me to come back, but as long as bots are a problem, I don't touch Lineage II.   There has been no other mmo I've played where bots causes such a problem, maybe because there are measures to limit them, like banning offenders, and NCsoft seems to do nothing about it.
  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435

    Hmm, I haven't played L2 since the days right around the first expansion.  Back then leveling seemed oppressive, I was a 52 Silver Ranger and the experience was slow going and I didn't care for it.  I guess the easier leveling and lower down times would be something I would like. The drop issue was a reall killer for me.  I never lost a major item, but I had a few very close calls and I did not enjoy the rush from it.

    The bots were a big problem back then, and I guess they still are.  Every game seems to be afflicted with this scourge.....

    It seems to me that the people who stuck with Lineage 2 did so because it was "hardcore", sort of like joining the Marines, and they revelled in its difficulty.  These changes appear to make the game considerably easier, and it seems to be changing the core game that their player base seemed to prefer so I question the wisdom of it.

    Sony could give a few lessons on re-designing a game to try and appeal to a broader audiance, only to send the core player community running for cover....

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  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905



    Originally posted by Tymora
    Oh!  I misunderstood.  Then I applaud the training of bots!  Keep them comin'.  The fact that bots are still around is a very bad sign though.   I thought that the changes would be such an improvement that might convince me to come back, but as long as bots are a problem, I don't touch Lineage II.   There has been no other mmo I've played where bots causes such a problem, maybe because there are measures to limit them, like banning offenders, and NCsoft seems to do nothing about it.


    Unfortunately bots still plague the game. NCSoft doesn't do enough about it and when they do its far to slow. We train them, we kill them, we report them, what else can we do as players?

    Its a major point of contention between guilds and can drive the politics. Pro- bot guilds are always at odds with the anti-bot guilds....that sort of thing...

    As far as some of why NCSoft moves so slow, well from what I understand, L2****er is difficult to detect and the account actually needs to be tested. The game is made with the Unreal2 engine which is very easy to mod and script. The bot program actually emulates everything exactly as a user. The program is also very complex and can do just about anything a player can including quest. They do have "mass bannings" but they wait a really long time to sweep the servers. It happens about once a quarter.

    My theory on this is they wait until Quarterly reports are in then sweep the bots. The bots re-purchase accounts and get right back in making sales figures for the new quarter look better. Although the North Amercan/European user base is pretty steadily growing, its going very slow,  it doesn't hurt to have a few thousand bots constantly getting new accounts.

    By removing item drop and replacing it with a death penalty that you need to pay money to have removed, actually hurts the botters. The penalty comes right off your "P attack" and adds up with more deaths. It also helps eliminate "de-leveling". So the death penalty rather then item drop isn't necessarily a bad thing. Bots who auto - rez may be weaker and will begin to die on their own. This will compound until they go pay to have the penalty removed.

    So we win some, we lose some. I never liked item drop on mob death. 9 times out of 10 when that happened it was because of a lag spike or server issue and when you got back, your toon was dead minus a few pieces of gear. Two days before the change a clannie lost his Plate suit and a bunch of mats because of a disconnect, all in all it cost him around 10 million because he lost connection. We tried to get to his spot but nothing was there when we arrived. Two days later, no such thing anymore. Rotten luck for him.

    EDIT

    By the way Tymora, your another one I didn't expect to be an ex-L2er.....You and Shae both threw me off. I'm just off in my own little world I guess lol

  • CryomatrixCryomatrix Member EpicPosts: 3,223
    I'm out of the loop in terms of Hindemith, i took a 2-week break, the no community server, WHAT THE FUCK is that, has completely ruined my in-game corporation.

    But the guy who was the main griefer, there were basicallly like 3-5 people and i knew 2 of them, one of them was my supplier for Qais Corp, he'd train people, get their gear, sell to me for cheap, i'd sell for more money, it was friggin great, but I think he quit.

    Hindemith is a weird server, many high levels, many people have played fora long time, look at the official forums, hindemith has the highest post count, so we don't have too many people but they are very active nad old timers, for me, a 6 month player, i'm still a nooblet in terms of HIndemith history.

    Omg, diarrhea, fuck, i'm in class too, blah, got to go :(.

    Cryomatrix




    Catch me streaming at twitch.tv/cryomatrix
    You can see my sci-fi/WW2 book recommendations. 
  • TorakTorak Member Posts: 4,905



    Originally posted by Cryomatrix

    Omg, diarrhea, fuck, i'm in class too, blah, got to go :(.

    Cryomatrix





    Thanks for sharing that with usimage

    image

     

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937

    Originally posted by Cryomatrix
    I'm out of the loop in terms of Hindemith, i took a 2-week break, the no community server, WHAT THE FUCK is that, has completely ruined my in-game corporation.

    But the guy who was the main griefer, there were basicallly like 3-5 people and i knew 2 of them, one of them was my supplier for Qais Corp, he'd train people, get their gear, sell to me for cheap, i'd sell for more money, it was friggin great, but I think he quit.

    Hindemith is a weird server, many high levels, many people have played fora long time, look at the official forums, hindemith has the highest post count, so we don't have too many people but they are very active nad old timers, for me, a 6 month player, i'm still a nooblet in terms of HIndemith history.

    Omg, diarrhea, fuck, i'm in class too, blah, got to go :(.

    Cryomatrix


    Considering that Hindemith is the youngest of the North Amreican Servers, you will probably find MORE higher level players on the other servers.

    It also has a very unique community. One which uses the main forums quite a bit.


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