Cult of Brad?

EliasThorne · October 2006

Hi all,

I've no doubt this'll end up looking like trolling, but please will someone tell me why he's so revered?
I get that some people have good ideas, I get that some people are rally good at their jobs, but this almost seems like celebrity worship!

So someone explain why?

Mrbloodworth · October 2006

I think there is allot of celebrity worship.

They believe that everything that was right about EQ = Brad.

Everything wrong = Someone else.

I think allot of them forget, This is the man that created the things most
mmoers hate in this time and age.

Rose colored glasses.

Copeland · October 2006

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

I think there is allot of celebrity worship.
They believe that everything that was right about EQ = Brad.
Everything wrong = Someone else.
I think allot of them forget, This is the man that created the things most
mmoers hate in this time and age.
Rose colored glasses.

Brad is great because he's willing to try new things. It's not all about the money for him. He knows he'll make money. He'll make enough when he sells out to SOE in a few years to make a new MMO. This is all a given. I like him because he's willing to try.

Mrbloodworth · October 2006

Originally posted by Copeland
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
I think there is allot of celebrity worship.They believe that everything that was right about EQ = Brad.Everything wrong = Someone else.I think allot of them forget, This is the man that created the things most
mmoers hate in this time and age.Rose colored glasses.

Brad is great because he's willing to try new things. It's not all about the money for him. He knows he'll make money. He'll make enough when he sells out to SOE in a few years to make a new MMO. This is all a given. I like him because he's willing to try.

There are a number of other MMO's that try new things. Some allot
more radical than Vanguard.

There isnt much in Vanguard that is new however, Im sure this will be
debated. But in my view its true.

Most of it is a rehash and polish of old tired systems. There are a few things
in vanguard that I would consider new, but not many.

If you would like to, i would like to hear what you think is new and innovatve about vanguard.

Sturmrabe · October 2006

Originally posted by Copeland

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

I think there is allot of celebrity worship.

They believe that everything that was right about EQ = Brad.

Everything wrong = Someone else.

I think allot of them forget, This is the man that created the things most
mmoers hate in this time and age.

Rose colored glasses.

Brad is great because he's willing to try new things. It's not all about the money for him. He knows he'll make money. He'll make enough when he sells out to SOE in a few years to make a new MMO. This is all a given. I like him because he's willing to try.

A: You mean he's willing to steal new things from other MMOs and patch them in with expansions

B: the rest of your statement is why many people hate him

hypersan · October 2006

I have seen Brad around for years since he was Aradune on sojourn DIKU MUD.

Most of the stuff that he is hyped for pioneering just seems to be stuff perfected in the above MUD and skinned with a graphic user interface. A lot of the feel of everquest reminds me of the feel of Sojourn. He saw an oppurtinity and took it. So he is just a reasonably good guy in the right place at the right time. What is going with vanguard now is probably his first real attempt at making something his way with his ideas.

Mrbloodworth · October 2006

Originally posted by hypersan
I have seen Brad around for years since he was Aradune on sojourn DIKU MUD.

Most of the stuff that he is hyped for pioneering just seems to be stuff perfected in the above MUD and skinned with a graphic user interface. A lot of the feel of everquest reminds me of the feel of Sojourn. He saw an oppurtinity and took it. So he is just a reasonably good guy in the right place at the right time. What is going with vanguard now is probably his first real attempt at making something his way with his ideas.

lol, yes. Many sources will tell you this is true. Sadly,
the things that people hate that were brought over to EQ from DIKU MUD are
still here. But in the MUD they have automated scripts to handle them, most
muds are played by script anyway.

Sturmrabe · October 2006

Man, so far everyone is an old bastard in this thread (look at the join dates

)

Amathe · October 2006

Developers get rock star status when they make a successful game. That lasts until they make a lousy one. For example, Raph Koster used to be highly regarded because of his role in Ultima Online. That lasted until SWG. Now he is unemployed, last I heard anyway.

EliasThorne · October 2006

Ah, a gathering of giffers

Still I see a couple of votes for the greatest man to walk the earth, but no explanation yet... Maybe its like a mind-washing cult

@Copeland - I'm not sure where you were going with that, you're making out like building up something then ditching it when its worth enough is a nice thing to do... yes its a wise thing, but fans don't like people who jump ship, but I've no doubt he'll say how good things were and if he had his way... etc etc etc...

@Mrbloodworth - Very true Hero's Journey is trying new things, its just they're keeping low key - in fact very low key at the moment as they seem to be focusing on the engine they sold very the game itself at the mo (just my opinion)

@Sturmrabe - I hope people don;t actually hate him, thats taking things too far surly!

@hypersan - Oddly MUD is where HJ spawns from, but just how well will it come across to a graphical MMO - think about it how often have you heard someone say about a film - "Its not as good as the book"?

Unknown · October 2006

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
I think there is allot of celebrity worship.

They believe that everything that was right about EQ = Brad.

Everything wrong = Someone else.

I think allot of them forget, This is the man that created the things most mmoers hate in this time and age.

Rose colored glasses.

This is true, but Evil Vision Lord Brad himself tells these people he was always part of SOE from the beginning. Verant was split off of SOE to make EQ then reabasorbed back in later.

I think Evil Vision Lord Brad even has that on Sigil's official FAQ.

Yet SOE is blamed for everything that has gone wrong with anything. Even though Brad has tried to tell people things were not like they say.

Its just crazy frankly.

Mrbloodworth · October 2006

Originally posted by Amathe
Developers get rock star status when they make a successful game. That lasts until they make a lousy one. For example, Raph Koster used to be highly regarded because of his role in Ultima Online. That lasted until SWG. Now he is unemployed, last I heard anyway.

To his credit. He did UO and SWG but also designd alot of
systems for EQ2 etc..

He was moved off of SWG before things when really downhill, and he fought against
them. Hence his leaving SOE.

He is not technically unemployed as he is making his own start up studio and
about to start work on his newest mmo, as well as still doing lots of panel and
discussions at conventions around the world.

Unknown · October 2006

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
Originally posted by Copeland
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
I think there is allot of celebrity worship.They believe that everything that was right about EQ = Brad.Everything wrong = Someone else.I think allot of them forget, This is the man that created the things most
mmoers hate in this time and age.Rose colored glasses.

Brad is great because he's willing to try new things. It's not all about the money for him. He knows he'll make money. He'll make enough when he sells out to SOE in a few years to make a new MMO. This is all a given. I like him because he's willing to try.

There are a number of other MMO's that try new things. Some allot more radical than Vanguard.

There isnt much in Vanguard that is new however, Im sure this will be debated. But in my view its true.

Most of it is a rehash and polish of old tired systems. There are a few things in vanguard that I would consider new, but not many.

If you would like to, i would like to hear what you think is new and innovatve about vanguard.

I do not consider Brad super innovative. But he has done new things. Yes EQ itself as an RPG was not innovative. It was a MUD and a fairly standard one. But they made it into a 3D world. Sure its fake 3D and almost might as well not be 3D compared to games nowadays. But for the time it was certainly something.

Again Vanguard follows the same pattern, nothing all the that new RPG wise. Basically a few refinements in roles etc. But he is trying to add in some new things or at the least some rare things, such as housing and flying and ships etc. A few more sandbox-esque elements. Although Vanguard won't be Sandbox.

And finally he is not a afraid to throw his hat in the ring and speak to the customers which is probably one of the main things that get people. You hold yourself aloof and people will want to tear you down. Maybe he goes to Uber guilds too much I dunno whatever. But he posts and actually responds and discusses far more than any other dev.

wyzwun · October 2006

You know why these people love brad so much? because they never played hes failures. They never played games like EQOA and even EQ2 are examples of WHY brad is not the god people make him out to be. People only played EQ (pre PoP) and they blame SoE for all the changes they made.. when brad himself supports what SoE has done to "Hes game".

Bottom line, if this game is good, you have a window of about 4-5 years to really have fun. Thats what us EQ players really want. But make no mistake, when it comes time for brad to sell out our "change" the vision... he will.

anarchyart · October 2006

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

I think allot of them forget, This is the man that created the things most mmoers hate in this time and age.

Such as?

Brad to me seems like an old school gamer who gets to make games. Vanguard is a game by gamers for gamers. Not sure how many of those we have left. He's just a guy and I've never seen anyone worship him, not sure where the O.P. has been looking. I would like to see a link to where he gets worshipped, might be worth a grin.

enzyme · October 2006

Originally posted by wyzwun

You know why these people love brad so much? because they never played hes failures. They never played games like EQOA and even EQ2 are examples of WHY brad is not the god people make him out to be. People only played EQ (pre PoP) and they blame SoE for all the changes they made.. when brad himself supports what SoE has done to "Hes game".
Bottom line, if this game is good, you have a window of about 4-5 years to really have fun. Thats what us EQ players really want. But make no mistake, when it comes time for brad to sell out our "change" the vision... he will.

EQOA was my entry point to MMOs. Up to that point in time I have heard of EQ, but I thought it was rediculous to have to pay a monthly fee, and speaking to EQ players was like talking to a cult at the time. Without that game, I never would have ponied up the cash to get a decent PC to play EQ. From there I have played just about everything.

EQOA was a great game to play for it's platform, no expensive hard drives, no rediculous proprietary services (yes I am calling you out FFXI!!) a low monthly fee to play. Playable on a dialup connection. I would consider EQOA an excellent "gateway drug" lol. I just don't see how it can be considered a failure considering people are still playing it, spawn an expansion (Frontiers) and Sony is still supporting it.

In regards to all of SOE's games, if they weren't making money from someone I think they would have sunset the servers a long time ago.

if the game is good, it's good, if not, as always speak with your wallet.

Copeland · October 2006

Originally posted by EliasThorne
Ah, a gathering of giffers
Still I see a couple of votes for the greatest man to walk the earth, but no explanation yet... Maybe its like a mind-washing cult
@Copeland - I'm not sure where you were going with that, you're making out like building up something then ditching it when its worth enough is a nice thing to do... yes its a wise thing, but fans don't like people who jump ship, but I've no doubt he'll say how good things were and if he had his way... etc etc etc...
@Mrbloodworth - Very true Hero's Journey is trying new things, its just they're keeping low key - in fact very low key at the moment as they seem to be focusing on the engine they sold very the game itself at the mo (just my opinion)
@Sturmrabe - I hope people don;t actually hate him, thats taking things too far surly!
@hypersan - Oddly MUD is where HJ spawns from, but just how well will it come across to a graphical MMO - think about it how often have you heard someone say about a film - "Its not as good as the book"?

Brad is a developer. He developes games. Ofcourse he's going to sell them off and let someone else manage it who wants to manage an MMO? I have no problem with it. Who's going to make the next great game after Vanguard if Brad doesn't take his team and move on after a few years?

wyzwun · October 2006

Originally posted by enzyme

Originally posted by wyzwun

You know why these people love brad so much? because they never played hes failures. They never played games like EQOA and even EQ2 are examples of WHY brad is not the god people make him out to be. People only played EQ (pre PoP) and they blame SoE for all the changes they made.. when brad himself supports what SoE has done to "Hes game".
Bottom line, if this game is good, you have a window of about 4-5 years to really have fun. Thats what us EQ players really want. But make no mistake, when it comes time for brad to sell out our "change" the vision... he will.

EQOA was my entry point to MMOs. Up to that point in time I have heard of EQ, but I thought it was rediculous to have to pay a monthly fee, and speaking to EQ players was like talking to a cult at the time. Without that game, I never would have ponied up the cash to get a decent PC to play EQ. From there I have played just about everything.

EQOA was a great game to play for it's platform, no expensive hard drives, no rediculous proprietary services (yes I am calling you out FFXI!!) a low monthly fee to play. Playable on a dialup connection. I would consider EQOA an excellent "gateway drug" lol. I just don't see how it can be considered a failure considering people are still playing it, spawn an expansion (Frontiers) and Sony is still supporting it.

In regards to all of SOE's games, if they weren't making money from someone I think they would have sunset the servers a long time ago.

if the game is good, it's good, if not, as always speak with your wallet.

I played EQOA (Nero from CLW 60 Dwarf Defender) and moved to FFXI the minute beta came out. Brad had this wild idea about a zone less world, did not take advantage of hard drive and released a half assed game, a game that had bad snes graphics. imo, FFXI was a better EQClone then the orginal itself, had the deepness, but had the first really great story ive ever seen in an mmo, To me FFXI was EQ but w/o the carrot and the hamster box. Of course my views of FFXI are IMO but, EQOA / PS / EQ2 / (theres more i just forget) are in fact, failures.

EQOA at peek MAYBE had no more then 60k subs (EQOA had 5 servers, each server had about max 6k subs... do the math). I use EQOA as an example of brads handy work. The game is up only because its cheap to maintain, they have a skelly crew that runs it lol. Ill say, all things aside frontiers was a "decent" expansion but guess what? what little was good about the game Brad was not there.

Sigil are gamers who make games? I have never ever read a single block of text from Sigil people that would tell me that.

ive never seen say, BM say "I think Zelda OoT was one of the most amazing games ive ever played" And imo thats the problem. There still making 3d muds.

There not gamers, there MMO'ers... you know like AA. They didnt play the Origin/ID/RR/nintendo/sega/SE games lol. They played idk, MUDS...?

Copeland · October 2006

Originally posted by wyzwun
You know why these people love brad so much? because they never played hes failures. They never played games like EQOA and even EQ2 are examples of WHY brad is not the god people make him out to be. People only played EQ (pre PoP) and they blame SoE for all the changes they made.. when brad himself supports what SoE has done to "Hes game".
Bottom line, if this game is good, you have a window of about 4-5 years to really have fun. Thats what us EQ players really want. But make no mistake, when it comes time for brad to sell out our "change" the vision... he will.

SOE was responsible for both EQOA and EQ2. I'm sure theres more to the story than has been publicized and i'm sure he's smart for keeping it on the dl for future business considerations. If Brad was happy with EQ2 he wouldn't have left it in it's early development stages.

I think you're confusing Brad's changing vision with what the people in power demand. Most of EQ's changes were Smedley related. I'm not going to say everything McQuaid does is perfection but i have every confidence that he'll put out a quality game we can enjoy for a few years and 10 years from he'll have another one coming out LOL.

wyzwun · October 2006

um no. He was the LEAD on those games, those games sucked. Any questions?

Unknown · October 2006

Originally posted by anarchyart
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
I think allot of them forget, This is the man that created the things most mmoers hate in this time and age.

Such as?

Brad to me seems like an old school gamer who gets to make games. Vanguard is a game by gamers for gamers. Not sure how many of those we have left. He's just a guy and I've never seen anyone worship him, not sure where the O.P. has been looking. I would like to see a link to where he gets worshipped, might be worth a grin.

Anyone who is selling you a game for gamers made by gamers is selling you horse maneuer. If you can ever get all genuine gamers to agree that any set of featrues is "good" I would jump outta my seat and run for cover because the world would be ending and hell would probably be frozen over.

wyzwun · October 2006

Originally posted by gestalt11

Originally posted by anarchyart

Originally posted by Mrbloodworth

I think allot of them forget, This is the man that created the things most mmoers hate in this time and age.

Such as?

Brad to me seems like an old school gamer who gets to make games. Vanguard is a game by gamers for gamers. Not sure how many of those we have left. He's just a guy and I've never seen anyone worship him, not sure where the O.P. has been looking. I would like to see a link to where he gets worshipped, might be worth a grin.

Anyone who is selling you a game for gamers made by gamers is selling you horse maneuer. If you can ever get all genuine gamers to agree that any set of featrues is "good" I would jump outta my seat and run for cover because the world would be ending and hell would probably be frozen over.

You wana know whats more funny then AA's post? its the fact that he stole it from Blizzard. Blizz said the exact same BS when they were making WoW.

Mrbloodworth · October 2006

^Dude, your opinions are extreme and dont make allot of sense,
and your posts make my head bleed.^

anarchyart · October 2006

Originally posted by gestalt11

Anyone who is selling you a game for gamers made by gamers is selling you horse maneuer. If you can ever get all genuine gamers to agree that any set of featrues is "good" I would jump outta my seat and run for cover because the world would be ending and hell would probably be frozen over.

Hmm, normally your posts make me laugh. Guess they can't all be gold. Fact is, Brad is a gamer, and he's making Vanguard. By gamers, for gamers. Your knowledge of manure not withstanding.

transitbus · October 2006

I just like that the guys is willing to talk and when really wrong he admits it.

sure I think there is overhyping going on but he seems a little more grounded than most fanatical company heads

Unknown · October 2006

Originally posted by wyzwun
Originally posted by gestalt11
Originally posted by anarchyart
Originally posted by Mrbloodworth
I think allot of them forget, This is the man that created the things most mmoers hate in this time and age.

Such as?

Brad to me seems like an old school gamer who gets to make games. Vanguard is a game by gamers for gamers. Not sure how many of those we have left. He's just a guy and I've never seen anyone worship him, not sure where the O.P. has been looking. I would like to see a link to where he gets worshipped, might be worth a grin.

Anyone who is selling you a game for gamers made by gamers is selling you horse maneuer. If you can ever get all genuine gamers to agree that any set of featrues is "good" I would jump outta my seat and run for cover because the world would be ending and hell would probably be frozen over.

You wana know whats more funny then AA's post? its the fact that he stole it from Blizzard. Blizz said the exact same BS when they were making WoW.

Well I won't be saying he stole it or whatever, but yeah that is something Blizz says. But then again the amount of pure marketing BS Blizz puts out is rather impressive.

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