i think u all r making way too big a deal out of this. seriously, now, hes already cleared this up about how many zones there r, so y r u all still trying to disprove what he said? its done, move on, good ppl, move on....
besides that, this post isnt even about how many zones there r, reread the original post plz.
His point about zones reguardless of the number is still valid.
There's not enough zones, the zones are small, and they're all completely linear.
I suppose if we wanted to get technical (like SOE often does) you could count every renamed instance as it's own zone.
The goods news is, new large and original zones are "suppose" to be included in EoF. (Unlike the Bonemire, Lavatsorm, lets reuse all the graphics and call it an expansion type thing.) But time will tell.
[] keep pouring oil into the flames by insisting on the fact that you have been intentionally misunderstood by rabid fanboys
[] be wise, shut up, note to self: Never argue with... well, you know the rest.
[] Stay on topic, defend your view and jump into the pit of endless repetetive, insightless discussions of doom.
[] Only mention that you've played this game to Level 70 and a total played time of about 800 hours and let the fact ring to the heavens so it may shed wisdom onto those unworthy...
[X] Stop using stupid usenet flaming techniques and don't click on "post message"
I recently got into this game (played EQ1 for 5 years almost) after the GameSandbox trial.
I was having great fun with the game until I learned that (on most servers) there's no real difference between being good and evil (qeynos and freeport). I went through my first 20 or so levels believing that it was one side against the other and it made the world a little more fun to be part of. The whole us vs. them thing.
Then I was adventuring and I saw a group of the other side, and they said "Hey come group with us". My heart was broken. Here we were, supposed to be enemies, but there's no real game mechanic to support it.
I know this may be different on the pvp servers or something, but already I've lost interest I'm sorry to say.
It's a great game otherwise though, they did a bangup job with it. It was better than I thought it would be.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Originally posted by lomiller Each of the zones you mention is far larger then their counterparts in some other games. Antonica is bigger then all the Alliance level 10-19 zones combined in WoW, I dont know the horde side as well, but I think its a safe bet the commonlands is bigger then the 10-19 zones horde side as well. For that matter try running all the way to Naggy without using any of the teleport shortcuts, even at level 70 when you dont have to worry about aggro this takes a long time. You could run half way across a WoW continent in the time it takes to make this run.
What the heck are you talking about? Antonica is about the same size as the Crossroads. You either have no sense of scale or you never played World of Warcraft.
Originally posted by Ranma13 What the heck are you talking about? Antonica is about the same size as the Crossroads. You either have no sense of scale or you never played World of Warcraft.
Hmm It seems to me I already said I already said I dont know much about the zones on the hoard side but the Barrens is one of the larger WoW zones but judging from the maps I would still be very surprised if it takes the 10 min to cross on foot (that's post run speed buff, it used to take closer to 15) without a mount like Antonica does.
Its also level 10-25 with the only other hoard 10-20 zone being a postage stamp comparable to Westfall. Antonica and the Commonlands are only levels 10-20 so even if the Barrens is as big as the Commonlands, which I doubt, the evil side in that level range still favors EQ2. Perhaps your sense of scale is being thrown off because it's generaly easier to travel in streight lines in most EQ2 zones.
Direct comparison WoW/EQ2 zones? How long does it take on foot from qeynos zu freeport? I did it dozens of times at around level 20-30 because we cycled through fallen gate, varsoon and stormhold. I tell you, it takes 14 minutes, crossing 4 zones, passing 2 outposts (if the docks count as outposts), without griffons. Longest journey's the commonland crossing. How long does it take to go from the ruins of lordaeron to booty bay in WoW. I never stopped it myself but a friend of mine did and it was 44 minutes. While crossing this one continent (of two) you pass 11 full-scale outdoor zones and walk through two major cities and pass by 4 outposts...
People, seriously, without flaming, its a joke, as i said before, even the devs said eq2 doesnt shine because of a massive world... they never intended it to be, the invisible walls and the lack of explorable content clearly show that. I never said its a bad game, i actually think its a more fun and quality game than WoW or GW, but you cant defy the rock hard fact that the actual outdoor world zones, the world, the place where you go sightseeing, travelling, hunting, mostly solo, that this place is not very big... ... I agree though that its bigger than DDO or whatever combat based mmog you wanna refer to. But its not anywhere near massive worlds like SWG, DnL (which sucks, i just look at the world) or EvE
Originally posted by Meridion Direct comparison WoW/EQ2 zones? How long does it take on foot from qeynos zu freeport? I did it dozens of times at around level 20-30 because we cycled through fallen gate, varsoon and stormhold. I tell you, it takes 14 minutes, crossing 4 zones, passing 2 outposts (if the docks count as outposts), without griffons. Longest journey's the commonland crossing. How long does it take to go from the ruins of lordaeron to booty bay in WoW. I never stopped it myself but a friend of mine did and it was 44 minutes. While crossing this one continent (of two) you pass 11 full-scale outdoor zones and walk through two major cities and pass by 4 outposts...
I call BS. It takes almost that long using griffons with a 40% carpet mount, I know because I did just this last week to do the Avatar quest in Freeport. A few months back I took a level 20 to Freeport to team up with a friend and it took over 20 min even using the griffons in Antonica and CL. Going the whole way on foot with no run buffs and no griffons it takes more like 35 min. Doing my betrayal quest just after launch it took me 2 hours because of the need to dodge mobs.
Of course there is the deceitfulness in your post to account for. Going from Fallen gate to Stormhold doesnt require you to cross either Antonica since both locations are close to where you enter their respective zones when you make the trip. You also do not come close to crossing either the Thundering Steppes or Nec Forest all the way.
I a) never said that it would (as much as you dont have to cross all existing zones on the WoW trip) and b) made the count from city gate to city gate. You can look the at the runners heritage quest (the journeys half the fun), to travel around the WHOLE of antonica you get 14 minutes which you can easily do by just running, without mount. Crossing the zone from the southern city gates to the thundering steppes gates takes you five minutes at most.
Its still "arguing details", unnecessary discussion... Earlier in this thread I stated other facts that are fundamental to the "small world experience"; like no free space, every bit of the game world serves a purpose (the tree spot, the wolf spot, the skeleton spot, the craftgrind spot seamlessly connect) or like no exploring content (All places are made accessible or deny access by transparent, omnipresent walls at every steep cliff, every map border and every shoreline)...
...thats the whole point i wanted to make from the first post on. I'll sum it up in small bits:
- I liked EQ2 a lot, more than WoW or GW, which I both quit.
- I quit EQ2, because I felt like playing in a golden cage since EQ2 is, compared to the games Ive played before, very small.
- I play SWG now, ignoring the fact that SWG is not as much fun gameplaywise as EQ2 is but provides a immersive, real scale gameworld.
- I posted because "wow what a game" reminded me of the feelings I had with this game the first weeks and months and reminded me of the bitterness when it couldnt provide after i had reached a certain level.
Thats about all and for gods sake, thats actually not too hard to agree with, even for a dedicated EQ2 player *g*
Originally posted by Meridion I a) never said that it would (as much as you dont have to cross all existing zones on the WoW trip) and b) made the count from city gate to city gate.
You were trying to use this trip to justify your claims the zones were small when you dont actually cross even a single zone to make the trip you specified. If you say you made the trip on foot from city gate to city gate (which isnt what you said) then what you are saying is flat out false because making the trip that way takes much longer.
You can look the at the runners heritage quest (the journeys half the fun), to travel around the WHOLE of antonica you get 14 minutes which you can easily do by just running, without mount.
a)at the furthest extent you are a little over half a zone away from your starting point.
b)you use run speed buffs to finish on time.
Crossing the zone from the southern city gates to the thundering steppes gates takes you five minutes at most.
Its still "arguing details", unnecessary discussion...
Are you suggesting I stop confusing you with facts?
Earlier in this thread I stated other facts that are fundamental to the "small world experience"; like no free space, every bit of the game world serves a purpose (the tree spot, the wolf spot, the skeleton spot, the craftgrind spot seamlessly connect) or like no exploring content (All places are made accessible or deny access by transparent, omnipresent walls at every steep cliff, every map border and every shoreline)...
...thats the whole point i wanted to make from the first post on. I'll sum it up in small bits:
- I liked EQ2 a lot, more than WoW or GW, which I both quit.
- I quit EQ2, because I felt like playing in a golden cage since EQ2 is, compared to the games Ive played before, very small.
Your quote reads the gameworld is tiny, there are only 8 outdoor zones, the last two are even smaller than the lowbie zones and crammed to the rim with mobs of all kinds. The facts are that there are more then 8 zones, many many more unless we are limiting ourselves to major overland zones, and none of these overland zones are small.
If you had said something like the world size can seem small because there are ways to reach most parts of it quickly I would have agreed with you. As I said previously this is a design decision to allow players to accomplish things without haveing to log in and spend an hour traveling just to start, something that isn't to everyones tastes.. What you said, however, is that the world and zones are small which is simply not true.
- I play SWG now, ignoring the fact that SWG is not as much fun gameplaywise as EQ2 is but provides a immersive, real scale gameworld.
- I posted because "wow what a game" reminded me of the feelings I had with this game the first weeks and months and reminded me of the bitterness when it couldnt provide after i had reached a certain level.
Thats about all and for gods sake, thats actually not too hard to agree with, even for a dedicated EQ2 player *g*
I have not used speed buffs for the heritage, plus it is a roundtrip that takes you all the way up to the northern shore, to the argent needle and back. Its much longer than just crossing the zone.
my statement that "the gameworld is tiny, there are only 8 outdoor zones, the last two are even smaller than the lowbie zones and crammed to the rim with mobs of all kinds" does not state that the zones are small. Actually, they are pretty decent, yet, what makes the whole view "small" is the fact that there ARE only 9 (I forgot Zek in the first post) of them. Thats the thing that bothered me firsthand, I loved the zones when I started until I realized as I hit about level 45 that one can go to everfrost and lavastorm which are pretty much tube-like-linear world zones... and thats it...
And yes, due to the fact that all the small-scaled newbie sidecity zones (graveyard, swamp, oakmyst) are exactly this, VERY small, and the group/raid zones are pretty much non-solo groupmob zones (like Rivervale), I am not taking those into account. Plus you cant just count in expansions for everyone (which I didnt with SWG or upcoming WoW-BC either) I DO exclude them from an honest world-scale measurement. I never counted the starting station in SWG or raid instance XY in WoW as a real zone, its just there but its not what you'd call world content...
"design decision to allow players to accomplish things without haveing to log in and spend an hour traveling just to start, something that isn't to everyones tastes.. "
Actually, it CAN be handled like in SWG, where you have fast mounts from like level 1 on (which is realistic in a scifi mmog) or include fast transportation like in WoW. The only game where there IS the tedium of endless travel (which is NOT very fun) is Eve-Online.
Originally posted by Blurr I recently got into this game (played EQ1 for 5 years almost) after the GameSandbox trial. I was having great fun with the game until I learned that (on most servers) there's no real difference between being good and evil (qeynos and freeport). I went through my first 20 or so levels believing that it was one side against the other and it made the world a little more fun to be part of. The whole us vs. them thing. Then I was adventuring and I saw a group of the other side, and they said "Hey come group with us". My heart was broken. Here we were, supposed to be enemies, but there's no real game mechanic to support it. I know this may be different on the pvp servers or something, but already I've lost interest I'm sorry to say. It's a great game otherwise though, they did a bangup job with it. It was better than I thought it would be.
yeah i play on pvp and youre not gonna witness that anytime soon. q and fp are constantly at eachothers necks and its great fun.
Meridion: ur point has been well taken by every1 that doesnt want to argue with u, u have nothing more to prove to us. if u look at the poll i started in this thread, most other ppl somewhat agree that EQII isnt one of the larger games out. so no1 is really arguing with u about this. some ppl just cant stand others dissing there game of choice, and will argue with u every step of the way, dont take it personnally. no mature gamer is offended by ur statements. i dont find the gameworld small in EQII, but im only lvl 12 too, so i cant really speak about such things.
lomiller: i understand y u feel it necessary to defend ur game, but come on man, hes entitled to his own opinion, if he wants to say that the gameworld is small, then let him. this isnt the 5th grade man. u need to stop picking his posts apart and looking so hard to find inconsistencies to prove that he doesnt know what hes talking about, let it go and move on. instead of working so hard to disprove him, go to some of these other forums where there is ppl that actually r degrading this game, or insulting the player base, and set them straight. this guy has already pointed out that hes a fan of EQII, he just wants a bigger world to play in. hes entitled to that.
to both of u: if this issue is that much of a thing to both of u, heres what i suggest. both of u take ur highest lvl char on EQII, and run (no speed buffs or mounts) across every zone in EQII at its widest diameter and time each zone, then do the same in WOW. for this to work, u both have to take the same route across each. then post ur times, so we all know, lol. now thats an experiment that i wouldnt mind reading about. these times that u both have posted can b twisted and contorted to mean whatever u want them to mean ("takes longer cause u have to mob dodge"). so get together and decide on a route that both of u feel comfortable with, and both of u run it and record ur times. if it works like it should, u both will have the same times for each zone. then there wont b any arguing. and the rest of us will have rock hard evidence for the truth of the matter.
oO and EVE is awesome if u have a ship that can move at 3k m/s. makes for some fast jumping. still take hrs and hrs to cross all the zones in EVE tho. personnally i think that its the biggest game world. btw, not every1 has a 3k m/s ship, the avg is about 500 m/s with a shuttle, and it would take a very long time to get very far. try taking a freighter that only goes 250 m/s with mwd and 3 overdrive expansions for a run over 49 jumps, then come talk to me about taking a long time. side note, 49 jumps wouldnt even take u halfway across the gameworld.
PlanoMM I take it you are still in high school? If you intend to go beyond that you will need to understand that intelligent discourse requires you to read people opinions with a critical eye and make intelligent commentary on it. You will also learn that if you are going to make a statement in a public forum you need to be prepared to defend it.
At some point, yes, many issues come down to simple opinion and taste, but these are not the type of debate going on here. The number of zones in EQ2 is not a matter of opinion, the length of time it takes to run from one place to another is not a matter of opinion.
First of all PlanoMM *everyone* is entitles to their opinion and to express it not just the people you decide should be able to.
Second he has posted things that go beyond opinion into verifiable or refutable facts and his facts have been repeatedly shown to be incorrect.
Thirdly go back and look actually read his posts, he started off on in this thread by trying to change the mind of some who really does like the game. This is not the posting of someone who likes the game its the posting of someone who doesnt and wants to convince others that they wont either.
Fourthly Im picking his posts apart because they contain errors inaccuracies and inconsistencies. If he stuck things within the realm of opinion and clearly stated tehm as opionion this may not be a big deal but he didnt he posted his opinions as facts.
Finally I strongly object to your implication that the mature thing to do is just is not to critique the things someone posts in a public forum. Your notion, is quite frankly childish, I take it you are still in high school? If you intend to go beyound that you will need to understand that intelligent discourse not only allows you such critique, it demands it. Reading other peoples opinion with a critical eye isnt just essential to any higher learning its the entire point of it.
lomiller, r u related to liilian or something? its funny, u guys r on opposite sides of this debate, yet u use exactly the same tactics.
do us all a favor and read each of these words carefully. i want u to understand. the whole "every1 is entitled to their own opinion" is what i was trying to get across to u. meaning, if he wants to say that the game world is small, hes entitled to do so. he doesnt have to clear it with u first. if u want to say that the game world is large, do so, u dont have to clear it with me first.
secondly, ur still picking his first post as the "go beyond opinion into verifiable or refutable facts", he has posted several times since more or less agreeing with u all that he wasnt taking every zone into account. so for u to keep going on and on.......and on.......and on about it, only shows that u cant move on to something more productive.
i took ur advise and reread his very first post and u know what i saw when i read it? his opinion that the game world of EQII is small. thats all, i didnt see him say anything like, EQII sux, get out while u can. while i dont agree with his opinion of this game, i dont judge him for it, nor do i think that he should get flamed for his opinion.
ur not picking any of his current posts apart, ur still picking his original post apart. and since when did we have to start putting a disclaimer at the bottom of our posts stating that all the material in the post is opinion? do u do that, i didnt think so. so y u gonna act like some1 else has to? this is a big deal to only one person, apparently, seeing as how every1 else has already stopped posting in this thread. every1 else in the forum understands his "opinion" now. ur the only one still trying to "disprove" his "facts".
ur objection is duely noted. but i stand by me original "opinion" that the mature thing to do is let the other person have his/her own opinion, in a public forum. ironic that u call me attempt at being a peacemaker, "childish" that is just what me 5th grade cousin would tell me, when i try to break up a stupid fight over a hairbrush, lol. btw, ty, but no i wish i was still in high school, good times, good times.
while i agree that an eye for detail is sometimes necessary in intelligent conversations over the internet, i find that railing on, and reeming some1 else that didnt ask u for ur "critique" on a public forum just gives u a bad rep and makes u look like jacka.ss edit: now hes prolly gonna say that this is me calling him a jacka.ss, even tho it clearly is not the case.
now if ur mature enough, without getting defensive, go back to me previous post about proving the time it takes to cross each zone, and reread it. this time, take it for what it is, instead of throwing up ur defensive wall and saying i cant hear u, i cant hear u! u might just come to realize that other ppl arent just props put on this planet for u to knock down and "critique".
in answer to ur new editted post, lomiller, no im not in high school. and yes this debate is a matter of opinion. number of zones isnt, but hes already cleared that up, ur still not getting past it. as far as the defending urself, y? if ur an adult, y does he have to "defend" his opinion? goes back to the whole entitled to ur own opinion thing, eh? if he has to defend an opinion, then hes not entitled to it, is he? guess that means u have to defend ur opinions from now on too, hows that suit ya? now, i would understand ur issues if he stuck to stating that EQII only has 8 zones, but he cleared that up 4 pages of this thread ago.
so i say again, good man, let it go. move on, and enjoy ur day, instead of trying to ruin every1 elses.
Originally posted by Meridion My statement that "the gameworld is tiny, there are only 8 outdoor zones, the last two are even smaller than the lowbie zones and crammed to the rim with mobs of all kinds" does not state that the zones are small. So what are these last two zones you speak of that are smaller than the lowbie zones. Since we are not taking into account expansions or anything, i would assume you are talking about Lavastorm and Everfrost??? If thats the case how are they smaller than say Oakmyst Forest. Actually, they are pretty decent, yet, what makes the whole view "small" is the fact that there ARE only 9 (I forgot Zek in the first post) of them. Ive already corrected you once, RIVERVALE, makes 10 of your so called outdoor zones
I take it you aren't even reading my posts carefully, huh?
[quote]the small-scaled newbie sidecity zones (graveyard, swamp, oakmyst) are exactly this, VERY small, and the group/raid zones are pretty much non-solo groupmob zones (like Rivervale), I am not taking those into account[/quote]
Oh yeah, I defined the term "the last two are even smaller" already in one post, i can do it again though: The last two zones, everfrost and lavastorm, are more tube-like and have less space to actually walk on than the lowbie (world) zones, commonlands and antonica. You couldve gotten that yourself by reading the posts in context and current discussed topic. When I made the first statement (in the first post) that you so gladly dragged up all the way from the 1st page basement, I was as deluded as to believe that hardly anyone would want to count oakmyst forest and zones alike to "world content"...
Originally posted by Meridion I take it you aren't even reading my posts carefully, huh?
[quote]the small-scaled newbie sidecity zones (graveyard, swamp, oakmyst) are exactly this, VERY small, and the group/raid zones are pretty much non-solo groupmob zones (like Rivervale), I am not taking those into account[/quote]
For your info, Rivervale is not strictly Group, i soloed here a lot and completed a ton of quests.
Oh yeah, I defined the term "the last two are even smaller" already in one post, i can do it again though: The last two zones, everfrost and lavastorm, are more tube-like and have less space to actually walk on than the lowbie (world) zones, commonlands and antonica.
Well then if you are referring to Commons and Ant then yes they are smaller, but lowbie zones refers to the outer city zones like oakmyst, sprawl etc. Had you been clearer in your first post....
You couldve gotten that yourself by reading the posts in context and current discussed topic. When I made the first statement (in the first post) that you so gladly dragged up all the way from the 1st page basement,
Ok forum lesson 101, you do know you can change how many posts appear on screen right, so in effect i didnt drag anything from page one basement as it was on page one to me. Right now this thread is still only in two pages to me.
Yes, I decided to attempt for a more concise response that left less opportunity to drag out this pointless discussion even further, but you apparently decided had other ideas and responded to the original rather then the revised version.
lomiller, r u related to liilian or something? its funny, u guys r on opposite sides of this debate, yet u use exactly the same tactics.
do us all a favor and read each of these words carefully. i want u to understand. the whole "every1 is entitled to their own opinion" is what i was trying to get across to u. meaning, if he wants to say that the game world is small, hes entitled to do so. he doesnt have to clear it with u first. if u want to say that the game world is large, do so, u dont have to clear it with me first.
You are correct I do not have to clear it with you before I express my disagreement with any opinion expressed in these forums. The right to hold an opinion does not supersede the right of others to disagree with that opinion if you express it publicly. Why then did you enter this thread and decide to make yourself the arbiter of who could express what opinion?
secondly, ur still picking his first post as the "go beyond opinion into verifiable or refutable facts", he has posted several times since more or less agreeing with u all that he wasnt taking every zone into account.
What this shows me is that you really didnt read the thread. In response to me saying SH to FG crossed only part of Nec and TS and did not require crossing Ant or CL he responded:
I a) never said that it would (as much as you dont have to cross all existing zones on the WoW trip) and b) made the count from city gate to city gate.
So he was in fact talking about city gate to city gate. After stating that this was not a realistic number I didnt return to the topic until you started flaming me for questioning his opinions.
so for u to keep going on and on.......and on.......and on about it, only shows that u cant move on to something more productive.
i took ur advise and reread his very first post and u know what i saw when i read it? his opinion that the game world of EQII is small. thats all, i didnt see him say anything like, EQII sux, get out while u can. while i dont agree with his opinion of this game, i dont judge him for it, nor do i think that he should get flamed for his opinion.
ur not picking any of his current posts apart, ur still picking his original post apart. and since when did we have to start putting a disclaimer at the bottom of our posts stating that all the material in the post is opinion? do u do that, i didnt think so.
Make all the disclaimers you want, you cant say 2+2=5 and pass it off as opinion.
so y u gonna act like some1 else has to? this is a big deal to only one person, apparently, seeing as how every1 else has already stopped posting in this thread. every1 else in the forum understands his "opinion" now. ur the only one still trying to "disprove" his "facts".
Everyone but you had said pretty much all they had to say in this thread. Something you may want to think about.
ur objection is duely noted. but i stand by me original "opinion" that the mature thing to do is let the other person have his/her own opinion, in a public forum. ironic that u call me attempt at being a peacemaker, "childish"
You jumped into a dead discussion and insulted people and all it peacemaking?
that is just what me 5th grade cousin would tell me, when i try to break up a stupid fight over a hairbrush, lol. btw, ty, but no i wish i was still in high school, good times, good times.
while i agree that an eye for detail is sometimes necessary in intelligent conversations over the internet, i find that railing on, and reeming some1 else that didnt ask u for ur "critique" on a public forum just gives u a bad rep as an jacka.ss
Given that you resurrected the thread and turned a heated but basically dead discussion into a flamewar you may want to put some serious thought into following your own advice here.
now if ur mature enough, without getting defensive, go back to me previous post about proving the time it takes to cross each zone, and reread it. this time, take it for what it is, instead of throwing up ur defensive wall and saying i cant hear u, i cant hear u! u might just come to realize that other ppl arent just props put on this planet for u to knock down and "critique".
in answer to ur new editted post, lomiller, no im not in high school. and yes this debate is a matter of opinion. number of zones isnt, but hes already cleared that up, ur still not getting past it. as far as the defending urself, y? if ur an adult, y does he have to "defend" his opinion? goes back to the whole entitled to ur own opinion thing, eh? if he has to defend an opinion, then hes not entitled to it, is he? guess that means u have to defend ur opinions from now on too, hows that suit ya? now, i would understand ur issues if he stuck to stating that EQII only has 8 zones, but he cleared that up 4 pages of this thread ago.
I mentioned it to refute the idea that he was free to exclude all but a few zones then make the blanket statement that the word was small because of the small number of zones. I return to the topic until you suggested that that bit of circular logic qualified as an opinion.
so i say again, good man, let it go. move on, and enjoy ur day, instead of trying to ruin every1 elses.
Since you apparently have trouble sensing when a discussion has played itself out Ill spell it out for you. Feel free to respond or not, by all means have your say in response to this post if you wish. Unless I see something in that response I have not already addressed I probably will not bother to reply to that post.
lmao, ok, just for grins and giggles(mine), ill continue this.
first, what page did i bring this topic back from the dead? looks like to me that this topic has been pretty hot from the get go. btw, i started posting on the very first page like 3rd or 4th post in, so where do u get that i came in and started insulting ppl? who did i insult? and in what way? did i insult u? how?
the reason i reposted ur post and responded, was cause it was there when i started responding, and when i got done responding u had changed it, so i felt it relavent to show what was actually said. and u call what u said a concise response that left less opportunity to drag out this pointless discussion even further? lol, kk, telling me basicly that when i grow up and get smarter like u, that ill want to argue and pick every1s posts apart, is trying to leave less opportunity, lol, kk?
secondly, reread me first arbitary post, i think u will see that me main issue wasnt even about whether or not u all agreed with his opinion or not, it was pretty much in response to a guy that felt it necessary to call some1 else an idiot. so yes, ur right, i couldnt care any less than i do right now if u want to express ur disagreement with any opinion expressed in these (or any) forums. i just think its childish and disrespectful to resort to namecalling and nitpicking, just because u dont agree with an opinion. and thats all i got to say bout that.
thirdly, ive read and reread every post in this thread, and in case u didnt notice, this thread was about a guy that said he liked this game, not about zones and bigger games and such. u guys turned it into that. which is fine, i dont really care, but dont act like im the one not reading the thread, when clearly, this thread got way out of hand and way off topic.
fourth, in what way did i "flame u". lol, i gotta know this, uve got to show me where i flamed u.
fifth, u clearly didnt understand me meaning about the disclaimer. i was saying if u dont make disclaimers, y do u expect others to do it?
"Everyone but you had said pretty much all they had to say in this thread. Something you may want to think about." this was me point to u, ur the one that had to keep going on and on about how wrong he was. every1 else had already stopped posting. go back and look.
"You jumped into a dead discussion and insulted people and all it peacemaking?" again, u gotta show me where ur getting this, lol, for real.
"Given that you resurrected the thread and turned a heated but basically dead discussion into a flamewar you may want to put some serious thought into following your own advice here." grrrrr.....u gotta show me where i "resurrected the thread", cause im not seeing it. if u can show me, ill own up to it, i promise.
"I mentioned it to refute the idea that he was free to exclude all but a few zones then make the blanket statement that the word was small because of the small number of zones. I return to the topic until you suggested that that bit of circular logic qualified as an opinion." huh?! see, u know what i see when i read logic like this? i see some1 that has to nitpick, i c some1 that has to always b right, i c some1 that always has to have the last word. i dont c some1 that is just doing their duty as a EQII forum member. looks to me as if u just wanted a fight, and his "circular" logic provided what u wanted.
its funny to me that now that uve said all that u wanted to say, that u say that the discussion is over, ironic is more like it really, cause when i said that 2 pages ago, u had to respond and keep it going, lol. for ref. read me post that starts with "come on guys, this is getting really old quick."
Originally posted by PlanoMM thirdly, ive read and reread every post in this thread, and in case u didnt notice, this thread was about a guy that said he liked this game, not about zones and bigger games and such. u guys turned it into that. which is fine, i dont really care, but dont act like im the one not reading the thread, when clearly, this thread got way out of hand and way off topic.
Actually have to correct you on that, there is no 'u guys', the person that turned this thread into this is the guy you have been defending.
And yes it got off topic very quickly (second post might i add) again by the guy your defending.
yeah, im enjoying everything about the game so far, lotsa fun.
hopefully lillian doesnt see this post moirae, u know hell/shell want us to explain exactly y we enjoy this game, then downplay every reason u give, lol. oO well, some ppl just arent happy unless their treating others like theyre stupid.
edit: about 2 pages into this thread, lomiller will start ranting and raving on and on about zones and such. if u dont really want to read about stupid crap that doesnt matter at all, or u r familiar with the rantings of lomiller(and i know some of u r), feel free to just stop reading here. it gets really stupid later on. sry for that, but it does, i feel dumb for even letting that troll get me into it.
yes, flem, ur right. but now read the sentence right after that, "which is fine, i dont really care." it wasnt an accusation, it was just a statement of fact. that the topic went from one thing to something else. sry if u took offense to me wording, i didnt mean any.
edit: yeah, thats what i call some1 that continues an arguement just to get ppl riled. u know the old old saying, im sure, "if it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, well its prolly a duck."
i editted me first post because apparently lomiller feels that now after 6 pages of posts, that its a pointless discussion, and i was warning ppl about it. how do u see it as sneaky, i even spaced it down below me original text and set it apart with "edit:" hows that sneaky? y start a new post when u got one there already?
Comments
i think u all r making way too big a deal out of this. seriously, now, hes already cleared this up about how many zones there r, so y r u all still trying to disprove what he said? its done, move on, good ppl, move on....
besides that, this post isnt even about how many zones there r, reread the original post plz.
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His point about zones reguardless of the number is still valid.
There's not enough zones, the zones are small, and they're all completely linear.
I suppose if we wanted to get technical (like SOE often does) you could count every renamed instance as it's own zone.
The goods news is, new large and original zones are "suppose" to be included in EoF. (Unlike the Bonemire, Lavatsorm, lets reuse all the graphics and call it an expansion type thing.) But time will tell.
Wheee, the delights of escalation *g*...
[] keep pouring oil into the flames by insisting on the fact that you have been intentionally misunderstood by rabid fanboys
[] be wise, shut up, note to self: Never argue with... well, you know the rest.
[] Stay on topic, defend your view and jump into the pit of endless repetetive, insightless discussions of doom.
[] Only mention that you've played this game to Level 70 and a total played time of about 800 hours and let the fact ring to the heavens so it may shed wisdom onto those unworthy...
[X] Stop using stupid usenet flaming techniques and don't click on "post message"
NOOOO, its been my hand, not me, I SWEAR !!!
Your a idiot.
Lets add:
Zek
Realm of Dawn
Realm of Twilight
Realm of Night
MAj'Dul
The Sinking Sands
The Pillars of Flame
Lets not forget all the other Sub Zones which comne with Additional Packs?
the Splitpaw Saga
Bloodline Chronicles
The Fallen Dynasty
Oh, and the smaller Sub Zones:
The WAiling Caves
Blackburrow
Stormhold
Fallen Gate
Ruins of Varsoon
etc...
I repeat yet again, your an idiot.
I agree with you.. He's an idiot
I recently got into this game (played EQ1 for 5 years almost) after the GameSandbox trial.
I was having great fun with the game until I learned that (on most servers) there's no real difference between being good and evil (qeynos and freeport). I went through my first 20 or so levels believing that it was one side against the other and it made the world a little more fun to be part of. The whole us vs. them thing.
Then I was adventuring and I saw a group of the other side, and they said "Hey come group with us". My heart was broken. Here we were, supposed to be enemies, but there's no real game mechanic to support it.
I know this may be different on the pvp servers or something, but already I've lost interest I'm sorry to say.
It's a great game otherwise though, they did a bangup job with it. It was better than I thought it would be.
"Because it's easier to nitpick something than to be constructive." -roach5000
Your a idiot.
Lets add:
Zek
Realm of Dawn
Realm of Twilight
Realm of Night
MAj'Dul
The Sinking Sands
The Pillars of Flame
Lets not forget all the other Sub Zones which comne with Additional Packs?
the Splitpaw Saga
Bloodline Chronicles
The Fallen Dynasty
Oh, and the smaller Sub Zones:
The WAiling Caves
Blackburrow
Stormhold
Fallen Gate
Ruins of Varsoon
etc...
I repeat yet again, your an idiot.
I agree with you.. He's an idiot
ironic, on a different thread u basicly accused me of being a topic hunter, or spammer, and here, all ur doing is insulting some1 for an opinion.
u know what they say, if it looks like a troll, and smells like a troll.....
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Hmm It seems to me I already said I already said I dont know much about the zones on the hoard side but the Barrens is one of the larger WoW zones but judging from the maps I would still be very surprised if it takes the 10 min to cross on foot (that's post run speed buff, it used to take closer to 15) without a mount like Antonica does.
Its also level 10-25 with the only other hoard 10-20 zone being a postage stamp comparable to Westfall. Antonica and the Commonlands are only levels 10-20 so even if the Barrens is as big as the Commonlands, which I doubt, the evil side in that level range still favors EQ2. Perhaps your sense of scale is being thrown off because it's generaly easier to travel in streight lines in most EQ2 zones.
How long does it take on foot from qeynos zu freeport? I did it dozens of times at around level 20-30 because we cycled through fallen gate, varsoon and stormhold. I tell you, it takes 14 minutes, crossing 4 zones, passing 2 outposts (if the docks count as outposts), without griffons. Longest journey's the commonland crossing.
How long does it take to go from the ruins of lordaeron to booty bay in WoW. I never stopped it myself but a friend of mine did and it was 44 minutes. While crossing this one continent (of two) you pass 11 full-scale outdoor zones and walk through two major cities and pass by 4 outposts...
People, seriously, without flaming, its a joke, as i said before, even the devs said eq2 doesnt shine because of a massive world... they never intended it to be, the invisible walls and the lack of explorable content clearly show that. I never said its a bad game, i actually think its a more fun and quality game than WoW or GW, but you cant defy the rock hard fact that the actual outdoor world zones, the world, the place where you go sightseeing, travelling, hunting, mostly solo, that this place is not very big...
... I agree though that its bigger than DDO or whatever combat based mmog you wanna refer to. But its not anywhere near massive worlds like SWG, DnL (which sucks, i just look at the world) or EvE
Flame on, guys
Meridion
I call BS. It takes almost that long using griffons with a 40% carpet mount, I know because I did just this last week to do the Avatar quest in Freeport. A few months back I took a level 20 to Freeport to team up with a friend and it took over 20 min even using the griffons in Antonica and CL. Going the whole way on foot with no run buffs and no griffons it takes more like 35 min. Doing my betrayal quest just after launch it took me 2 hours because of the need to dodge mobs.
Of course there is the deceitfulness in your post to account for. Going from Fallen gate to Stormhold doesnt require you to cross either Antonica since both locations are close to where you enter their respective zones when you make the trip. You also do not come close to crossing either the Thundering Steppes or Nec Forest all the way.
Its still "arguing details", unnecessary discussion... Earlier in this thread I stated other facts that are fundamental to the "small world experience"; like no free space, every bit of the game world serves a purpose (the tree spot, the wolf spot, the skeleton spot, the craftgrind spot seamlessly connect) or like no exploring content (All places are made accessible or deny access by transparent, omnipresent walls at every steep cliff, every map border and every shoreline)...
...thats the whole point i wanted to make from the first post on. I'll sum it up in small bits:
- I liked EQ2 a lot, more than WoW or GW, which I both quit.
- I quit EQ2, because I felt like playing in a golden cage since EQ2 is, compared to the games Ive played before, very small.
- I play SWG now, ignoring the fact that SWG is not as much fun gameplaywise as EQ2 is but provides a immersive, real scale gameworld.
- I posted because "wow what a game" reminded me of the feelings I had with this game the first weeks and months and reminded me of the bitterness when it couldnt provide after i had reached a certain level.
Thats about all and for gods sake, thats actually not too hard to agree with, even for a dedicated EQ2 player *g*
Meridion
I have not used speed buffs for the heritage, plus it is a roundtrip that takes you all the way up to the northern shore, to the argent needle and back. Its much longer than just crossing the zone.
my statement that "the gameworld is tiny, there are only 8 outdoor zones, the last two are
even smaller than the lowbie zones and crammed to the rim with mobs of
all kinds" does not state that the zones are small. Actually, they are pretty decent, yet, what makes the whole view "small" is the fact that there ARE only 9 (I forgot Zek in the first post) of them. Thats the thing that bothered me firsthand, I loved the zones when I started until I realized as I hit about level 45 that one can go to everfrost and lavastorm which are pretty much tube-like-linear world zones... and thats it...
And yes, due to the fact that all the small-scaled newbie sidecity zones (graveyard, swamp, oakmyst) are exactly this, VERY small, and the group/raid zones are pretty much non-solo groupmob zones (like Rivervale), I am not taking those into account. Plus you cant just count in expansions for everyone (which I didnt with SWG or upcoming WoW-BC either) I DO exclude them from an honest world-scale measurement. I never counted the starting station in SWG or raid instance XY in WoW as a real zone, its just there but its not what you'd call world content...
"design decision to allow players to accomplish things without haveing to log in and spend an hour traveling just to start, something that isn't to everyones tastes.. "
Actually, it CAN be handled like in SWG, where you have fast mounts from like level 1 on (which is realistic in a scifi mmog) or include fast transportation like in WoW. The only game where there IS the tedium of endless travel (which is NOT very fun) is Eve-Online.
Meridion
freeport ftw
ok guys, this is getting old quick.
Meridion: ur point has been well taken by every1 that doesnt want to argue with u, u have nothing more to prove to us. if u look at the poll i started in this thread, most other ppl somewhat agree that EQII isnt one of the larger games out. so no1 is really arguing with u about this. some ppl just cant stand others dissing there game of choice, and will argue with u every step of the way, dont take it personnally. no mature gamer is offended by ur statements. i dont find the gameworld small in EQII, but im only lvl 12 too, so i cant really speak about such things.
lomiller: i understand y u feel it necessary to defend ur game, but come on man, hes entitled to his own opinion, if he wants to say that the gameworld is small, then let him. this isnt the 5th grade man. u need to stop picking his posts apart and looking so hard to find inconsistencies to prove that he doesnt know what hes talking about, let it go and move on. instead of working so hard to disprove him, go to some of these other forums where there is ppl that actually r degrading this game, or insulting the player base, and set them straight. this guy has already pointed out that hes a fan of EQII, he just wants a bigger world to play in. hes entitled to that.
to both of u: if this issue is that much of a thing to both of u, heres what i suggest. both of u take ur highest lvl char on EQII, and run (no speed buffs or mounts) across every zone in EQII at its widest diameter and time each zone, then do the same in WOW. for this to work, u both have to take the same route across each. then post ur times, so we all know, lol. now thats an experiment that i wouldnt mind reading about. these times that u both have posted can b twisted and contorted to mean whatever u want them to mean ("takes longer cause u have to mob dodge"). so get together and decide on a route that both of u feel comfortable with, and both of u run it and record ur times. if it works like it should, u both will have the same times for each zone. then there wont b any arguing. and the rest of us will have rock hard evidence for the truth of the matter.
oO and EVE is awesome if u have a ship that can move at 3k m/s. makes for some fast jumping. still take hrs and hrs to cross all the zones in EVE tho. personnally i think that its the biggest game world. btw, not every1 has a 3k m/s ship, the avg is about 500 m/s with a shuttle, and it would take a very long time to get very far. try taking a freighter that only goes 250 m/s with mwd and 3 overdrive expansions for a run over 49 jumps, then come talk to me about taking a long time. side note, 49 jumps wouldnt even take u halfway across the gameworld.
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PlanoMM I take it you are still in high school? If you intend to go beyond that you will need to understand that intelligent discourse requires you to read people opinions with a critical eye and make intelligent commentary on it. You will also learn that if you are going to make a statement in a public forum you need to be prepared to defend it.
At some point, yes, many issues come down to simple opinion and taste, but these are not the type of debate going on here. The number of zones in EQ2 is not a matter of opinion, the length of time it takes to run from one place to another is not a matter of opinion.
originally posted by lomiller, then changed.
First of all PlanoMM *everyone* is entitles to their opinion and to express it not just the people you decide should be able to.
Second he has posted things that go beyond opinion into verifiable or refutable facts and his facts have been repeatedly shown to be incorrect.
Thirdly go back and look actually read his posts, he started off on in this thread by trying to change the mind of some who really does like the game. This is not the posting of someone who likes the game its the posting of someone who doesnt and wants to convince others that they wont either.
Fourthly Im picking his posts apart because they contain errors inaccuracies and inconsistencies. If he stuck things within the realm of opinion and clearly stated tehm as opionion this may not be a big deal but he didnt he posted his opinions as facts.
Finally I strongly object to your implication that the mature thing to do is just is not to critique the things someone posts in a public forum. Your notion, is quite frankly childish, I take it you are still in high school? If you intend to go beyound that you will need to understand that intelligent discourse not only allows you such critique, it demands it. Reading other peoples opinion with a critical eye isnt just essential to any higher learning its the entire point of it.
lomiller, r u related to liilian or something? its funny, u guys r on opposite sides of this debate, yet u use exactly the same tactics.
do us all a favor and read each of these words carefully. i want u to understand. the whole "every1 is entitled to their own opinion" is what i was trying to get across to u. meaning, if he wants to say that the game world is small, hes entitled to do so. he doesnt have to clear it with u first. if u want to say that the game world is large, do so, u dont have to clear it with me first.
secondly, ur still picking his first post as the "go beyond opinion into verifiable or refutable facts", he has posted several times since more or less agreeing with u all that he wasnt taking every zone into account. so for u to keep going on and on.......and on.......and on about it, only shows that u cant move on to something more productive.
i took ur advise and reread his very first post and u know what i saw when i read it? his opinion that the game world of EQII is small. thats all, i didnt see him say anything like, EQII sux, get out while u can. while i dont agree with his opinion of this game, i dont judge him for it, nor do i think that he should get flamed for his opinion.
ur not picking any of his current posts apart, ur still picking his original post apart. and since when did we have to start putting a disclaimer at the bottom of our posts stating that all the material in the post is opinion? do u do that, i didnt think so. so y u gonna act like some1 else has to? this is a big deal to only one person, apparently, seeing as how every1 else has already stopped posting in this thread. every1 else in the forum understands his "opinion" now. ur the only one still trying to "disprove" his "facts".
ur objection is duely noted. but i stand by me original "opinion" that the mature thing to do is let the other person have his/her own opinion, in a public forum. ironic that u call me attempt at being a peacemaker, "childish" that is just what me 5th grade cousin would tell me, when i try to break up a stupid fight over a hairbrush, lol. btw, ty, but no i wish i was still in high school, good times, good times.
while i agree that an eye for detail is sometimes necessary in intelligent conversations over the internet, i find that railing on, and reeming some1 else that didnt ask u for ur "critique" on a public forum just gives u a bad rep and makes u look like jacka.ss edit: now hes prolly gonna say that this is me calling him a jacka.ss, even tho it clearly is not the case.
now if ur mature enough, without getting defensive, go back to me previous post about proving the time it takes to cross each zone, and reread it. this time, take it for what it is, instead of throwing up ur defensive wall and saying i cant hear u, i cant hear u! u might just come to realize that other ppl arent just props put on this planet for u to knock down and "critique".
in answer to ur new editted post, lomiller, no im not in high school. and yes this debate is a matter of opinion. number of zones isnt, but hes already cleared that up, ur still not getting past it. as far as the defending urself, y? if ur an adult, y does he have to "defend" his opinion? goes back to the whole entitled to ur own opinion thing, eh? if he has to defend an opinion, then hes not entitled to it, is he? guess that means u have to defend ur opinions from now on too, hows that suit ya? now, i would understand ur issues if he stuck to stating that EQII only has 8 zones, but he cleared that up 4 pages of this thread ago.
so i say again, good man, let it go. move on, and enjoy ur day, instead of trying to ruin every1 elses.
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I take it you aren't even reading my posts carefully, huh?
[quote]the small-scaled newbie sidecity zones (graveyard, swamp, oakmyst) are exactly this, VERY small, and the group/raid zones are pretty much non-solo groupmob zones (like Rivervale), I am not taking those into account[/quote]
Oh yeah, I defined the term "the last two are even smaller" already in one post, i can do it again though: The last two zones, everfrost and lavastorm, are more tube-like and have less space to actually walk on than the lowbie (world) zones, commonlands and antonica. You couldve gotten that yourself by reading the posts in context and current discussed topic. When I made the first statement (in the first post) that you so gladly dragged up all the way from the 1st page basement, I was as deluded as to believe that hardly anyone would want to count oakmyst forest and zones alike to "world content"...
Meridion
Since you apparently have trouble sensing when a discussion has played itself out Ill spell it out for you. Feel free to respond or not, by all means have your say in response to this post if you wish. Unless I see something in that response I have not already addressed I probably will not bother to reply to that post.
lmao, ok, just for grins and giggles(mine), ill continue this.
first, what page did i bring this topic back from the dead? looks like to me that this topic has been pretty hot from the get go. btw, i started posting on the very first page like 3rd or 4th post in, so where do u get that i came in and started insulting ppl? who did i insult? and in what way? did i insult u? how?
the reason i reposted ur post and responded, was cause it was there when i started responding, and when i got done responding u had changed it, so i felt it relavent to show what was actually said. and u call what u said a concise response that left less opportunity to drag out this pointless discussion even further? lol, kk, telling me basicly that when i grow up and get smarter like u, that ill want to argue and pick every1s posts apart, is trying to leave less opportunity, lol, kk?
secondly, reread me first arbitary post, i think u will see that me main issue wasnt even about whether or not u all agreed with his opinion or not, it was pretty much in response to a guy that felt it necessary to call some1 else an idiot. so yes, ur right, i couldnt care any less than i do right now if u want to express ur disagreement with any opinion expressed in these (or any) forums. i just think its childish and disrespectful to resort to namecalling and nitpicking, just because u dont agree with an opinion. and thats all i got to say bout that.
thirdly, ive read and reread every post in this thread, and in case u didnt notice, this thread was about a guy that said he liked this game, not about zones and bigger games and such. u guys turned it into that. which is fine, i dont really care, but dont act like im the one not reading the thread, when clearly, this thread got way out of hand and way off topic.
fourth, in what way did i "flame u". lol, i gotta know this, uve got to show me where i flamed u.
fifth, u clearly didnt understand me meaning about the disclaimer. i was saying if u dont make disclaimers, y do u expect others to do it?
"Everyone but you had said pretty much all they had to say in this thread. Something you may want to think about." this was me point to u, ur the one that had to keep going on and on about how wrong he was. every1 else had already stopped posting. go back and look.
"You jumped into a dead discussion and insulted people and all it peacemaking?" again, u gotta show me where ur getting this, lol, for real.
"Given that you resurrected the thread and turned a heated but basically dead discussion into a flamewar you may want to put some serious thought into following your own advice here." grrrrr.....u gotta show me where i "resurrected the thread", cause im not seeing it. if u can show me, ill own up to it, i promise.
"I mentioned it to refute the idea that he was free to exclude all but a few zones then make the blanket statement that the word was small because of the small number of zones. I return to the topic until you suggested that that bit of circular logic qualified as an opinion." huh?! see, u know what i see when i read logic like this? i see some1 that has to nitpick, i c some1 that has to always b right, i c some1 that always has to have the last word. i dont c some1 that is just doing their duty as a EQII forum member. looks to me as if u just wanted a fight, and his "circular" logic provided what u wanted.
its funny to me that now that uve said all that u wanted to say, that u say that the discussion is over, ironic is more like it really, cause when i said that 2 pages ago, u had to respond and keep it going, lol. for ref. read me post that starts with "come on guys, this is getting really old quick."
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Actually have to correct you on that, there is no 'u guys', the person that turned this thread into this is the guy you have been defending.
And yes it got off topic very quickly (second post might i add) again by the guy your defending.
yeah, im enjoying everything about the game so far, lotsa fun.
hopefully lillian doesnt see this post moirae, u know hell/shell want us to explain exactly y we enjoy this game, then downplay every reason u give, lol. oO well, some ppl just arent happy unless their treating others like theyre stupid.
edit: about 2 pages into this thread, lomiller will start ranting and raving on and on about zones and such. if u dont really want to read about stupid crap that doesnt matter at all, or u r familiar with the rantings of lomiller(and i know some of u r), feel free to just stop reading here. it gets really stupid later on. sry for that, but it does, i feel dumb for even letting that troll get me into it.
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ooh, how sneaky PlanoMM, editing your very first post. And you said you havent insulted anyone, seems to me you just called lomiller a troll.
yes, flem, ur right. but now read the sentence right after that, "which is fine, i dont really care." it wasnt an accusation, it was just a statement of fact. that the topic went from one thing to something else. sry if u took offense to me wording, i didnt mean any.
edit: yeah, thats what i call some1 that continues an arguement just to get ppl riled. u know the old old saying, im sure, "if it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, well its prolly a duck."
i editted me first post because apparently lomiller feels that now after 6 pages of posts, that its a pointless discussion, and i was warning ppl about it. how do u see it as sneaky, i even spaced it down below me original text and set it apart with "edit:" hows that sneaky? y start a new post when u got one there already?
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