Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Snoop SOE E SOE

2»

Comments

  • SpathotanSpathotan Member Posts: 3,928
    This is a failed SoE bash, but a sucessful bitch attempt. If youre gonna cry over something simple like this, then I cant wait till hear you bitching about Vista.

    As many have stated already, Microsoft has been doing this for awhile now, and just wait till you get Vista. Not only will MS know what you have and what youre doing, but so will the Government with the Homeland Security back door.

    "There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
    — Boba Fett

  • TillerTiller Member EpicPosts: 7,725


    Originally posted by Spathotan
    This is a failed SoE bash, but a sucessful bitch attempt. If youre gonna cry over something simple like this, then I cant wait till hear you bitching about Vista.

    As many have stated already, Microsoft has been doing this for awhile now, and just wait till you get Vista. Not only will MS know what you have and what youre doing, but so will the Government with the Homeland Security back door.


    That is until the next presidential election when the Bush administration moves out and the Democrats wipe the unnecessary and waste of money civilian spy programs.



  • LaterisLateris Member UncommonPosts: 1,765

    I hate to say this but after 3 years it is about time they do this. And it is a little late. Maybe they are getting a clue to how much lag they have outside of the austin area? Or now they are moving forward with new ideas and projects for SWG.

  • SpathotanSpathotan Member Posts: 3,928


    Originally posted by tillamook

    Originally posted by Spathotan
    This is a failed SoE bash, but a sucessful bitch attempt. If youre gonna cry over something simple like this, then I cant wait till hear you bitching about Vista.

    As many have stated already, Microsoft has been doing this for awhile now, and just wait till you get Vista. Not only will MS know what you have and what youre doing, but so will the Government with the Homeland Security back door.

    That is until the next presidential election when the Bush administration moves out and the Democrats wipe the unnecessary and waste of money civilian spy programs.


    Hopefully. All the stupid security things in Vista is whats stopping me from getting it.

    "There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
    — Boba Fett

  • RekrulRekrul Member Posts: 2,961


    Originally posted by tillamook


    That is until the next presidential election when the Bush administration moves out and the Democrats wipe the unnecessary and waste of money civilian spy programs.


    Your avatar is a kick in the groin for user created content.

    This is why companies fear putting players in charge. A company could get sued real fast for causing someone a seizure. This is especially true if the game doesn't contain a seizure warning.

    While the flashing images seem to be the latest rage, having an epyleptic in my family and seeing them spasm out of blue when shown a new stereo, I for one don't find it funny.

    It's a pointless issue, but when user content is discussed, this, and thousands more abuses come to mind. End result: WoW.
  • ObraikObraik Member Posts: 7,261


    Originally posted by iskareot

    Originally posted by Obraik

    If you're running Windows XP (or Vista or Office), Microsoft also know this information.  They collect it all when you install and activate Windows or Office and when you upgrade beyond the threshold you have to activate again and re-update that info ;)  There's also that Windows validation tool that checks your computer every 3 weeks to make sure your copy of Windows is valid (used to be everytime you logged in to Windows).
    WoW monitors what programs you have running and if it thinks you're running a program that is used for hacking, your account is banned.
    Computer monitoring is common in this day and age by many software companies.

    Since I do this for a living, I will add in here.   You are right, alot of companies do this.   HOWEVER, there is some rules and laws involved here.

    Microsoft is the worst example to use because THEY own thier OS and you more or less rent it if you will.

    So they need to be left out of this, you agree to that by using thier software.   Now then, there is information you agree to with each game and or product you install.   You have to read some of this close.   SOE has been known to gather data in a (Sketchy) manner quite oftern FYI.   This is a known fact, however you agreed to play then you allwed it to happen.

    Just be smart, some things should be open to them, but for marketing... that is very thin.... very thin.

    Send them a email tell them you do not wish to be part of it while using thier product and see what they say.

    No matter what the law is thin in alot of this mess......be warned and use some sense.


    How does that not apply?  You don't own SWG either, you are effectively renting it.  You also agree to this when you install the game and then sign into Launchpad each day.  The EULA you're shown at each login also mentions that they can collect this sort of data without notice, if they wanted to.

    image

    image

  • GotCobolGotCobol Member Posts: 13
    FYI if you are discussing MS Product Activation, the only thing MS gets is a one way hash code, it cannot be reveresed, they do not get a list of your system information, they just get a one way hash that was your system information.

    If you are talking about the box you get with a crash saying send my info to MS, they give you the option not too, unlike soe.

    Where as SOE will get the details, a very diffrent situation.


    9/4/2006, Good Bye SOE Good Luck with the Craptastic NGE
    image

  • bigfootsbigfoots Member Posts: 198
    Oh goodie, the' EULA gives them the right to do whatever they darn well please' argument....utter nonsense.

    Proud Master CH -
    Sorry,
    Proud FORMER Master CH...
    my toon was untimely converted into something more Star Warsy

  • SpathotanSpathotan Member Posts: 3,928


    Originally posted by GotCobol
    FYI if you are discussing MS Product Activation, the only thing MS gets is a one way hash code, it cannot be reveresed, they do not get a list of your system information, they just get a one way hash that was your system information.

    If you are talking about the box you get with a crash saying send my info to MS, they give you the option not too, unlike soe.

    Where as SOE will get the details, a very diffrent situation.




    Thats a lie, as of right now anyways. In the launchpad when you first installl the game, and im sure you can go back and change it, it will ask you a series of questions, 5 I think, all of them ask you if its ok for the Launchpad to collect data during various circumstances. You can pick no for all of them.

    "There's no star system Slave I can't reach, and there's no planet I can't find. There's nowhere in the Galaxy for you to run. Might as well give up now."
    — Boba Fett

  • RekrulRekrul Member Posts: 2,961


    Originally posted by bigfoots
    Oh goodie, the' EULA gives them the right to do whatever they darn well please' argument....utter nonsense.

    Welcome to, like 15 years ago.

    EULA gives the author of COMPLETE control to do anything they want.

    Autodesk (or another CAD company) included a clause that, at their own discretion, they can audit any and all systems used at a company that bought the product and agreed to at least one license. It goes even so far, that you agree to EULA even if using a pirated copy. To put it simply, if you install a pirated version of the software, they can send feds or other law enforcement into your entire company, and confiscate each and every machine in there to examine it for BSA compliance.

    I believe the clause was even enforced in one or two cases, before an outcry began. It's been a while since I followed that area.

    And you need to EULA it if you intend to use the software. In many cases, you automatically accept EULA WHEN you open the box itself. The fact, that paper on which EULA is printed is located inside the box has insofar eluded the legal aspects.

    EULA > God > Constitution.

    Welcome to the brave new world, where lawyers and IP is the alpha and the omega. But this is nothing new, it's been around for very long time.
  • ObraikObraik Member Posts: 7,261


    Originally posted by GotCobol
    FYI if you are discussing MS Product Activation, the only thing MS gets is a one way hash code, it cannot be reveresed, they do not get a list of your system information, they just get a one way hash that was your system information.

    If you are talking about the box you get with a crash saying send my info to MS, they give you the option not too, unlike soe.

    Where as SOE will get the details, a very diffrent situation.


    They have to scan your hardware to get the hash though ;) 

    There's the Windows Validation tool too, which has been found to scan your system and send back what programs you're using and whether they're legit, as well as making sure Windows is legit.  This information was collected every time you logged in and if you failed a test the order was given to lock your computer down and you were presented with a ton of messages telling you that your copy isn't legit.  Of course, it didn't work correctly and people that had perfectly legit systems were flagged.  Most did not have a choice with installing it either, since it was put on Windows Update as a Critical Update with a very vague description.  Public outcry has since had this changed and the behaviour has been changed in it, but it will still phone home every 3 weeks.

    Of course, Vista has this built into it ;)

    image

    image

  • GotCobolGotCobol Member Posts: 13


    Originally posted by Obraik

    Originally posted by GotCobol
    FYI if you are discussing MS Product Activation, the only thing MS gets is a one way hash code, it cannot be reveresed, they do not get a list of your system information, they just get a one way hash that was your system information.

    If you are talking about the box you get with a crash saying send my info to MS, they give you the option not too, unlike soe.

    Where as SOE will get the details, a very diffrent situation.

    They have to scan your hardware to get the hash though ;)

    true, but your details are still perfectly private, which with SOE they are not

    There's the Windows Validation tool too, which has been found to scan your system and send back what programs you're using and whether they're legit, as well as making sure Windows is legit.  This information was collected every time you logged in and if you failed a test the order was given to lock your computer down and you were presented with a ton of messages telling you that your copy isn't legit.  Of course, it didn't work correctly and people that had perfectly legit systems were flagged.  Most did not have a choice with installing it either, since it was put on Windows Update as a Critical Update with a very vague description.  Public outcry has since had this changed and the behaviour has been changed in it, but it will still phone home every 3 weeks.

    As is their right, they are allowed to verfiy that YOUR copy is legal, and if it fails the validation tool you are simply banned from getting any non crtical updates and offered a chance to become legal, where as SOE does not have to confirm your copy of SWG is legit because you are required to pay an account to use it. even then WVT uses hashing not details.



    Of course, Vista has this built into it ;)



    9/4/2006, Good Bye SOE Good Luck with the Craptastic NGE
    image

  • RekrulRekrul Member Posts: 2,961


    Originally posted by Obraik



    They have to scan your hardware to get the hash though ;) 

    There's the Windows Validation tool too, which has been found to scan your system and send back what programs you're using and whether they're legit, as well as making sure Windows is legit.  This information was collected every time you logged in and if you failed a test the order was given to lock your computer down and you were presented with a ton of messages telling you that your copy isn't legit.  Of course, it didn't work correctly and people that had perfectly legit systems were flagged.  Most did not have a choice with installing it either, since it was put on Windows Update as a Critical Update with a very vague description.  Public outcry has since had this changed and the behaviour has been changed in it, but it will still phone home every 3 weeks.

    Of course, Vista has this built into it ;)


    Be afraid. Be very afraid:

    Microsoft says Windows Validation Assistant does not collect any
    personal data from the computer, and the following information that is
    gathered from Windows machine to determine if your Microsoft software
    is genuine during the validation process:

    * Windows product key or product ID

    * Windows service pack version

    * PC manufacturer and model

    * Operating System version

    * SKU and Suite Mask

    * Security ID

    * PID/SID

    * BIOS information (manufacturer, model, make, version, date)

    * BIOS MD5 Checksum

    * User locale (language setting for displaying Windows)

    * System locale (language version of the operating system)

    * Office product key (if validating Office)

    * Hard drive serial number

    According to Microsoft, the information collected will be used for three purposes:

    • Provides Web page flow, tailoring the pages you see based on your responses.
    • Conveys demographics, which help Microsoft to understand regional differences in Windows or Office usage.
    • Confirms user input and compared user input against data collected
      from the PC in order to determine whether to grant a user?s request for
      additional access.


    The items outlined in green can, and in most cases do, leave a paper trail. The receipt of where you bought them.

    In case of a virus, MS used some hidden data in the word document the author used to spread the virus with, to determine the serial number of the network card in the computer where the document was created. That was traced back through retail channels to the individual in question.

    The details on this elude me, since it's been a while, I might try linking the stuff later.
  • DarthoriousDarthorious Member UncommonPosts: 70


    Originally posted by Obraik

    Originally posted by GotCobol
    FYI if you are discussing MS Product Activation, the only thing MS gets is a one way hash code, it cannot be reveresed, they do not get a list of your system information, they just get a one way hash that was your system information.

    If you are talking about the box you get with a crash saying send my info to MS, they give you the option not too, unlike soe.

    Where as SOE will get the details, a very diffrent situation.

    They have to scan your hardware to get the hash though ;) 

    There's the Windows Validation tool too, which has been found to scan your system and send back what programs you're using and whether they're legit, as well as making sure Windows is legit.  This information was collected every time you logged in and if you failed a test the order was given to lock your computer down and you were presented with a ton of messages telling you that your copy isn't legit.  Of course, it didn't work correctly and people that had perfectly legit systems were flagged.  Most did not have a choice with installing it either, since it was put on Windows Update as a Critical Update with a very vague description.  Public outcry has since had this changed and the behaviour has been changed in it, but it will still phone home every 3 weeks.

    Of course, Vista has this built into it ;)



    Well here's what now happens with the stuff in red.

    Had a friend who apparenttly was using a pirated version of windows on a spare computer.  Well actually he admitted it to me and gave me the run down wanting to know how to by-pass it lol...because my Uncle works for microsoft.

    Windows comes up and say's there is a problem with your activation code with a phone number to call for tech support.  It will lock your computer at this time forcing you to call or install a new OS.  If it's pirated never call first of all because they can then gain full access to your computer to "fix" it and then report you and take legal action if it is found out to be a pirated copy. Weather you knew it or not.

    According to my Uncle he said there is a cap limit to each code (this is as of 6 months ago) if an activation code is flagged say operating on 200 machines it is just assumed there is a possibility that 200 machines are a margin of error  and the computer doesn't alert them.  Once the code hit's 1000 then it starts "watching" the codes and if the number continues to go up from their it sets a flag at which time they decide weather to wait or to de-activate the code. 

    If they wait it's because the number is rising fast and they have the potential to track down and prosicute whoever is distributing the code.  Reason for that he said is because more than likely it's a software pirate operation who has made alot of money off of it and maybe even more MS products and MS will be able to get a good chunck of money back.  Largest he saw that was never deactivated for Windows OS was 1 code which had 10,000 users on all at once.

    Reason I know this is I asked him if I installed my copy of windows on a second machine if I would get in trouble and have to re-buy a copy for both machines once the first code was de-activated.  Needless to say he laughed at me.
  • PkylanPkylan Member Posts: 43
    MMORPGs develloped by MegaCorps = the enemy within ^_^

  • jadawinjadawin Member Posts: 37


    Originally posted by Fadeus


    Originally posted by jrscott
    Doesn't make it right.I get the feeling about 20 times each day now that some corporate jerk is probing my anus and laughing because "there is nothing you can do about it".  And then these same idiots wonder why so many people hate them.  I'm not excusing bad behavior and not condoning any violent actions, but it will be no wonder to me if one of these companies suffers a visit by armed gunmen.  The people prone to resorting to violence usually don't like being "forced" to submit to anything and these are the very things that set them off.


    Well ultimatly you can choose to not put your computer on the internet which removes that issue and not run software that requires such practices. Microsoft does offer a second option of calling in for your activation however.

    It will come to a head eventually, however piracy will still have to be addressed somehow. Right now companies are forced to protect their interests however they can. With piracy going pier to pier now there aren't many options.



    Just curious. How exactly does SOE have to protect their interests against piracy ? In a game that needs a monthly payment in order to log on ? How does knowing a hardware configuration help them against hackers or farmers ? Or are these fine points to close to the topic ?

    These spying practices usually aim at the dumb majority that is regarded as stupid by the companies because  they bought the software. The poeple willing to crack and disable protections are obviously not missing to remove those collection software.

    back to the topic though.

    I have the feeling that SOE regards SWG as a dead horse. So they use it as a playground to check the reaction of people on certain things. They check with what they can get away with and introduce the stuff people do not complain about in the games that create money for them.

    Just my 2 cent

    Jadawin






  • jrscottjrscott Member Posts: 1,252


    Originally posted by jadawin
    I have the feeling that SOE regards SWG as a dead horse. So they use it as a playground to check the reaction of people on certain things. They check with what they can get away with and introduce the stuff people do not complain about in the games that create money for them.

    Just my 2 cent

    Jadawin



    I was thinking the same thing.  I hit all of their MMORPG sites to see if they were doing this to other games and they were not.  It seems SWG is singled out for this "wonderful benevolent" act of our Overlords.  Though if they wanted to restrict the anger to a small segment they would have chosen The Matrix Online which is doing horribly even compared to the NGE. 

    I think they ARE looking for information.  Whether it is restricted to what they say and why is another question. 

    /tinfoilhatOn

    I would not put it past them to check your hard drive for the presence of certain similar Open Source software or mods to SWG.  If present, you just change a stat (say RAM size) to be sent back to them as a negative number.  That way they get RAM size AND an indicator you are running something they do not approve of and they can just claim the fact the RAM was sent back as a negative was just a bug in their collection software.

    /tinfoilhatOff

    I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever :)

  • BonzarBonzar Member Posts: 176
    Jrscott, I don't understand your little theory there. So they mark the RAM as negative, how does that help? The excuse they have now is that there was a bug in the collection software; what good is that?

    But, more importantly, I don't think this is too crazy. Steam runs surveys like this every now and then, all beta test applications require this information and we don't have to let them (we just refuse to connect to the game). I don't know how they'll utilize the information, and if they sell it I would be a little distressed, but right now I think it might just be a roundup of hardware configs for future development. This isn't a bad thing, I'd rather they make games with the average PC configuration in mind, not the $4,000 super system.


    image

  • JestorRodoJestorRodo Member UncommonPosts: 2,642


    Originally posted by Bonzar
    Jrscott, I don't understand your little theory there. So they mark the RAM as negative, how does that help? The excuse they have now is that there was a bug in the collection software; what good is that?

    But, more importantly, I don't think this is too crazy. Steam runs surveys like this every now and then, all beta test applications require this information and we don't have to let them (we just refuse to connect to the game). I don't know how they'll utilize the information, and if they sell it I would be a little distressed, but right now I think it might just be a roundup of hardware configs for future development. This isn't a bad thing, I'd rather they make games with the average PC configuration in mind, not the $4,000 super system.


            Selling the information? Like to Sigil ... for the incoming Vanguard which has a high spec requirement ( and proves the worth of the Station access offer)...... Sounds like something Slimey SOE would do.


        

    Unaware of the Jestor?
    http://about.me/JestorRodo/

    Friends enjoy his classic Vblog - https://www.facebook.com/GoodOldReliableNathan

Sign In or Register to comment.