Quantcast

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

A crazy idea..or the "iconic" future of CUNGE?

Some idle speculation on the theme "iconic" and "star warsy".

1) Bounty Hunter = Boba Fett = "Bad Guy" in SW = Imperial Faction only?

2) All Jedi in SW excepting Sith Lord and Apprentice = "Good Guys" = Rebel Faction only?

3) Bounty Hunters seem to be the natural nemesis of Jedi in SWG, so would it then be "iconic" if the GCW eventually boiled down to Imperial BH vs. Rebel Jedi.

Not a pleasant thought, but stranger things have happened to this game.

P.S.: Since the current incarnation of the suckboards were set up when the NGE hit, it's very easy to go back and see the players' reactions.  It's like the forum equivalent of nuclear winter... :P 

Comments

  • jrscottjrscott Member Posts: 1,252


    Originally posted by Ahotare

    Some idle speculation on the theme "iconic" and "star warsy".

    1) Bounty Hunter = Boba Fett = "Bad Guy" in SW = Imperial Faction only?


    I would hope they would not make this kind of association because it is pretty wrong.  If they were going to truly be iconic, they would require all BH to be neutral, but take missions from Imperial personnel and neutrals like Jabba, and then allow Neutrals to attack anybody.

    I see where you were going though, and given the fact the current devbase apparently never even watched the movies or played the game, this could be a frightening glimpse into the future.

    I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever :)

  • Wildcat84Wildcat84 Member Posts: 2,304


    That would royally piss off the Imperial BH's who like to be "rebel" so they can pick off Rebels in battlefields with impunity.

    In reality, if you want to be at all true to actual Star Wars, BH and Jedi should be their own faction, sort of like this:

    BH:  BH are neutral mercenaries.  They should not be part of either military, they are hired guns.  They hunt whomever pays them the most.  I'd say that the principle employers of BH's would be the criminal underworld (Jabba), and the Empire, as what BH's do (paid assasins) would be viewed with dishonor among the idealistic leadership of the Rebellion, though there would probably be times they would be used...  The principal goal of the BH is money, period.

    Jedi:  Jedi are loyal to the Force and to their Code, not to the Rebellion, though the Rebellion supports the rebirth of the Jedi.  Jedi are allied to the Rebellion only in that they have a common goal:  The destruction of the Sith.  The Jedi of this time are not formally trained, and thus are having to teach themselves about the Force, and struggle continually against the lure of the Dark Side.  The principal goal of the Jedi is to see the destruction of the Sith and to re-establish the Jedi Order.  A secondary goal would be to see the Rebellion restore the Republic.

    Sith/Dark Jedi:  There are only two main Sith allowed, The Master and his Apprentice.  However, in the EU, it is shown that both Vader and Palpatine took on several lesser apprentices (Emperor's hands, etc).  These would be the "grunts" tasked with the elimination of Rebel leaders and most particularly, Jedi.  The Sith/Dark Jedi, unlike the Jedi of this era, receive some formal training, but never enough to make them a threat to the two Sith, so anything beyond that, much like the Jedi, they have to discover for themselves.  The principal goal of the Sith is to see the destruction of the Jedi as their rival and to increase their own personal power so as to aspire to become the Dark Lord of the Sith.  A secondary goal would be to see the Empire succeed in destroying the Rebellion.

    The mistake that SOE has continually made is in not making the underworld/hutt faction what it should be, and in not making Jedi and Sith/Dark Jedi their own separate factions and GCW, with a point system that reflects darkside/lightside faction points which determine ranks beyond full template.  Lightside points:  determined by "good" actions, defending others, defending yourself, completing quests and doing the right thing, Darkside points:  "evil" actions, defeating others, increasing your power, completing quests in such a way that you manipulate things to your greatest personal advantage, etc.  BH ranking:  How much money you make.







  • Wildcat84Wildcat84 Member Posts: 2,304
    Main (playable) factions that SWG should have had:

    Rebellion
    Empire
    Underworld (Hutt/BH)
    Jedi
    Sith/Dark Jedi
    Neutral (new players and those who choose to not belong to anything)





  • MrArchyMrArchy Member Posts: 643

    OP - just a few quick observations-

    BH are the "natural nemesis" for Smugglers, per Ep 4-6.  BH as the "natural nemesis" for Jedi is a $OE/Crappy Lucas Moment Ep 2&3 invention.

    Sith are the "natural nemesis" for Jedi.

    SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
    NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
    Now Playing: World of Warcrack
    Forum Terrorist
    image

  • Wildcat84Wildcat84 Member Posts: 2,304


    Originally posted by MrArchy

    OP - just a few quick observations-
    BH are the "natural nemesis" for Smugglers, per Ep 4-6.  BH as the "natural nemesis" for Jedi is a $OE/Crappy Lucas Moment Ep 2&3 invention.
    Sith are the "natural nemesis" for Jedi.


    I'd say that a BH is the "natural enemy" of whomever that someone was willing to pony up enough credits to attract him.  That's why I'd put them in the same "underworld" faction as a smuggler.  Han had a bounty on his head not because he was part of the Rebellion, or because he was a smuggler, but because he'd pissed Jabba off.

    The movies lack even a single example of a BH going after Jedi.  Vader knew that no mere BH, no matter how good would be any match even for a lowly barely trained Padawan like Luke, he went after him himself.  He hired the BH's to get Han/Leia so they would be the bait to his trap to catch and turn Luke himself.

    The whole "BH hunt Jedi" thing is a pure SOE invention as a convenient solution to the fact that Jedi by design were an alpha class.  It made sense for gameplay even though it doesn't in Star Wars canon.



  • MrArchyMrArchy Member Posts: 643


    Originally posted by Wildcat84

    Originally posted by MrArchy

    OP - just a few quick observations-
    BH are the "natural nemesis" for Smugglers, per Ep 4-6.  BH as the "natural nemesis" for Jedi is a $OE/Crappy Lucas Moment Ep 2&3 invention.
    Sith are the "natural nemesis" for Jedi.

    I'd say that a BH is the "natural enemy" of whomever that someone was willing to pony up enough credits to attract him.  That's why I'd put them in the same "underworld" faction as a smuggler.  Han had a bounty on his head not because he was part of the Rebellion, or because he was a smuggler, but because he'd pissed Jabba off.



    True.

    I wrote this in the context of who the BH in the movies generally fight, since that is what defines "Star Warsy" and "iconic".  Han had Greedo, Boba Fett, Bossk, IG-88, Dengar, and maybe a few others after him after dumping the goods he was running for Jabba.  Jango Fett fought the Jedi because he was trying to assassinate Padme and the Jedi were protecting her.  I just feel that there is a more substantive movie-based ground for the "natural nemesis" (as the OP terms it) to be between BH and Smugglers rather than BH and Jedi, although I wouldn't have a problem with the interpretation that BH vs everyone is equally appropriate, simply from a logic standpoint as you describe.  I think the BH/Jedi "natural nemesis" position is a false one.

    SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
    NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
    Now Playing: World of Warcrack
    Forum Terrorist
    image

  • Wildcat84Wildcat84 Member Posts: 2,304


    Originally posted by MrArchy

    Originally posted by Wildcat84

    Originally posted by MrArchy

    OP - just a few quick observations-
    BH are the "natural nemesis" for Smugglers, per Ep 4-6.  BH as the "natural nemesis" for Jedi is a $OE/Crappy Lucas Moment Ep 2&3 invention.
    Sith are the "natural nemesis" for Jedi.

    I'd say that a BH is the "natural enemy" of whomever that someone was willing to pony up enough credits to attract him.  That's why I'd put them in the same "underworld" faction as a smuggler.  Han had a bounty on his head not because he was part of the Rebellion, or because he was a smuggler, but because he'd pissed Jabba off.



    True.

    I wrote this in the context of who the BH in the movies generally fight, since that is what defines "Star Warsy" and "iconic".  Han had Greedo, Boba Fett, Bossk, IG-88, Dengar, and maybe a few others after him after dumping the goods he was running for Jabba.  Jango Fett fought the Jedi because he was trying to assassinate Padme and the Jedi were protecting her.  I just feel that there is a more substantive movie-based ground for the "natural nemesis" (as the OP terms it) to be between BH and Smugglers rather than BH and Jedi, although I wouldn't have a problem with the interpretation that BH vs everyone is equally appropriate, simply from a logic standpoint as you describe.  I think the BH/Jedi "natural nemesis" position is a false one.


    I'd say a BH would be less likely to fight Jedi simply because of this:  No reward is worth it if you aren't around to spend it :)

    That is why BH should fight non Jedi primarily and Jedi should be countered by Dark Jedi and vice versa.

  • jrscottjrscott Member Posts: 1,252


    Originally posted by Wildcat84


    The movies lack even a single example of a BH going after Jedi.  Vader knew that no mere BH, no matter how good would be any match even for a lowly barely trained Padawan like Luke, he went after him himself.  He hired the BH's to get Han/Leia so they would be the bait to his trap to catch and turn Luke himself.

    The whole "BH hunt Jedi" thing is a pure SOE invention as a convenient solution to the fact that Jedi by design were an alpha class.  It made sense for gameplay even though it doesn't in Star Wars canon.





    You sure about that?  It may not be in the movies, but it is part of the accepted Star Wars Expanded Universe if I am to believe many posters here and on the SOE boards.  I have the book of Bounty Hunter Tales or whatever it is called, but don't make the time to read it.  I'm willing to bet there are numerous Jedi hunts in there.  I'll skim it later and let you know.

    I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever :)

  • KenshuAniKenshuAni Member CommonPosts: 851


    Originally posted by Ahotare

    Some idle speculation on the theme "iconic" and "star warsy".

    1) Bounty Hunter = Boba Fett = "Bad Guy" in SW = Imperial Faction only?
    2) All Jedi in SW excepting Sith Lord and Apprentice = "Good Guys" = Rebel Faction only?
    3) Bounty Hunters seem to be the natural nemesis of Jedi in SWG, so would it then be "iconic" if the GCW eventually boiled down to Imperial BH vs. Rebel Jedi.

    Not a pleasant thought, but stranger things have happened to this game.

    P.S.: Since the current incarnation of the suckboards were set up when the NGE hit, it's very easy to go back and see the players' reactions.  It's like the forum equivalent of nuclear winter... :P 


    To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised.  The concept of the NGE centered around FPS games, so I can definately see them reduce SWG down even further to reds vs. blues.
  • AhotareAhotare Member Posts: 43

    After reading the responses, I suppose the central question here is how the Jedi Code is interpreted.

    Lucas seems to present the Jedi as an organization dedicated to righteousness, as opposed to stability.  In this regard, they are not considered part of a government, nor do they appear to desire it.

    If dedicated towards righteousness, Jedi are very likely to make many powerful enemies, particularly the Empire and the criminal underworld.  Indeed, if irl governments are any indication, it's very likely that the Empire and criminal elements have an informal relationshp.  Thus, messing with one often leads to making an enemy of the other.

    Since the Rebellion is a reactionary movement to the corruption and excess of the Empire, it only makes sense that they (or their propaganda) support the idea of justice and righteousness.  So, if Jedi are also dedicated to righteousness, then it is no surprise that they are closely affiliated.  Also consider that both are hunted by the Empire, and so share a desire to share and protect each other's covert networks.

    Since both the Empire and the Underworld possess considerable financial resources, it is safe to say that BH are attracted to them for employment more than other other faction.  Conversely, the Rebellion have little use for them, as they represent a significant security risk.  Thus it is safe to assume that BH are by-and-large "hired muscle" for the Empire and Underword.  There may be exceptions, but they do not refute the rule.

    Quite frankly, the only difference between the Empire vs. Underground and Rebellion vs. Jedi is the desire for stability.  The Empire and Rebellion are similar in that they wish to establish stable institutions of governance, while the Underworld and Jedi serve their own purposes.  Otherwise, the two groups (Empire/Underworld) and (Rebellion/Jedi) can effectively be lumped together.

    And in theory, there is no such thing as a Neutral/Unaffiliated faction, since the Empire, and by affiliation, the Underwold are the dominant forces in the SWG universe.  If you are Neutral, then you stand for the status quo, whch makes you pro-Empire by default, no?  You may not be vocal about your loyalties, but by virtue of keeping your mouth shut, you accept the rule of the Empire, yes?

    So, since the Jedi appear to be the strongest representatives of Righteousness, like Zen Knights-Errant, and BH appear to be the most capable employees of "The Man", then are they not natural enemies?  I am sure there are others, but are these not the most "iconic" and "star warsy" of the bunch?

    Or maybe I am spending too much thought on this....

  • MrArchyMrArchy Member Posts: 643


    Originally posted by Ahotare

    Or maybe I am spending too much thought on this....


    Bingo.

    Don't know exactly where you got all that from based on previous, but I Empire = bad, Rebellion = good, Sith = bad, Jedi = good.  Not much more to it, really.  Star Wars isn't one of the great philosophical treatises on political ideology, after all.  Read the ancient Greeks and Machiavelli (to name just a few) for that stuff.

    SWG Veteran and Refugee, Intrepid server
    NGE free as of Nov. 22, 2005
    Now Playing: World of Warcrack
    Forum Terrorist
    image

  • GozzarGozzar Member UncommonPosts: 387


    Originally posted by MrArchy

    Originally posted by Wildcat84

    Originally posted by MrArchy

    OP - just a few quick observations-
    BH are the "natural nemesis" for Smugglers, per Ep 4-6.  BH as the "natural nemesis" for Jedi is a $OE/Crappy Lucas Moment Ep 2&3 invention.
    Sith are the "natural nemesis" for Jedi.

    I'd say that a BH is the "natural enemy" of whomever that someone was willing to pony up enough credits to attract him.  That's why I'd put them in the same "underworld" faction as a smuggler.  Han had a bounty on his head not because he was part of the Rebellion, or because he was a smuggler, but because he'd pissed Jabba off.



    True.

    I wrote this in the context of who the BH in the movies generally fight, since that is what defines "Star Warsy" and "iconic".  Han had Greedo, Boba Fett, Bossk, IG-88, Dengar, and maybe a few others after him after dumping the goods he was running for Jabba.  Jango Fett fought the Jedi because he was trying to assassinate Padme and the Jedi were protecting her.  I just feel that there is a more substantive movie-based ground for the "natural nemesis" (as the OP terms it) to be between BH and Smugglers rather than BH and Jedi, although I wouldn't have a problem with the interpretation that BH vs everyone is equally appropriate, simply from a logic standpoint as you describe.  I think the BH/Jedi "natural nemesis" position is a false one.


    hum... there are just 2 Bh´s in the movie.. the father and the son.. jango and boba..well there was some fellas on a star destroyer in ep5  as you are saying... but for real its just jango and boba that is the bh´s and jango killes some jedi´s in the movie .. boba sucked and got killed by a "untrained from childhood jedi" luke skywalker.. boba fett was just ment to be  a mysterius figur in the movie.. but ep1-3 is just a hype and lucas fucked all.. I hate the fact that its droids from ep1-3 in swg.. and gungans.. and naboo and .. yes whatever mustafar whatever.. I hate the new trilogi... total sell out! lucas needed money. much want more..

    image

    image

Sign In or Register to comment.