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I wish swg would sunset

yeah, i just wish the game would shut down...thats how i feel about it, to me and probably thousands of other CU/Pre-Cu players i don't think there's any hope left of the game we bought/paid for returning, but i think as long as SWG stays active its like someone leaving the knife in your back and diggin around with it. I know a lot of us have tried to move on to other games but it seems there's not much out there to move on to, everything else just seems to be way behind what swg was.

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Comments

  • kaibigan34kaibigan34 Member Posts: 1,508


    Originally posted by Soejckdswg

    yeah, i just wish the game would shut down...thats how i feel about it, to me and probably thousands of other CU/Pre-Cu players i don't think there's any hope left of the game we bought/paid for returning, but i think as long as SWG stays active its like someone leaving the knife in your back and diggin around with it. I know a lot of us have tried to move on to other games but it seems there's not much out there to move on to, everything else just seems to be way behind what swg was.




    I dont want it to shutdown. I think it would add insult to injury if it did close down. Mainly because everyone knows what is wrong and what needs to be fixed. Even SOE isnt blind to it. They might ignore it but they arent blind to it.

    If it shut down people would be all over SOE with even more fire to hate them. This time adding the current fanbase to its numbers. Not a good decision for SOE. They have to keep it going. The face they would lose would be 10 times worse then it is now.

    Kai
  • ShiloFieldsShiloFields Member Posts: 252

    Well said.   I totally agree that SWG shutting down would be the best thing.

    Even the games that are coming out in the next year are so look to be significantly behind what SWG was.  WoW has caused a general dumbing down of the MMO market.  I am afraid we will never see a game as good as SWG again.

    As for the current fan base, they started (or continued) the game knowing they were feasting upon the carcasses of the pre-NGE players, that SOE has no problem whatsoever with completely invalidating players  time invested in its games with little or no warning.  By sticking with SOE, or joining them post NGE they assumed the risk.  They gained by our misery and I won't feel any sympathy for them when SOE turns on them.

  • oreyioreyi Member Posts: 121


    Originally posted by Soejckdswg

    yeah, i just wish the game would shut down...thats how i feel about it, to me and probably thousands of other CU/Pre-Cu players i don't think there's any hope left of the game we bought/paid for returning, but i think as long as SWG stays active its like someone leaving the knife in your back and diggin around with it. I know a lot of us have tried to move on to other games but it seems there's not much out there to move on to, everything else just seems to be way behind what swg was.





    Today a mate from wow told me she wanted to try Vanguard, and I (joking) told her she should not... When she asked why I released a nice rant about SoE :D

    I think I needed almost an hour to tell her just a bit of what they had done, and how the game was originally

    Yeah, it should be closed, nobody can do a good game about swg while that.... monster is still alive. Let it stop suffering, kill it already.

  • Wildcat84Wildcat84 Member Posts: 2,304
    It's coming.  Later than it should have but sooner than the SOE fanbois will be expecting.



  • Bob_BlawblawBob_Blawblaw Member Posts: 1,278
    It's their destiny.
  • Wildcat84Wildcat84 Member Posts: 2,304


    Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw
    It's their destiny.

    And it's unavoidable.

    Sooner or later the beancounters are going to scream, "Enough!" and it sunsets.

  • dookseiddookseid Member Posts: 282


    Originally posted by Wildcat84

    Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw
    It's their destiny.
    And it's unavoidable.

    Sooner or later the beancounters are going to scream, "Enough!" and it sunsets.



    Agreed,  if not this quarterly report,  the next for sure.  All they will see is decreasing zeroes...
  • Bob_BlawblawBob_Blawblaw Member Posts: 1,278


    Originally posted by dookseid

    Originally posted by Wildcat84

    Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw
    It's their destiny.
    And it's unavoidable.

    Sooner or later the beancounters are going to scream, "Enough!" and it sunsets.



    Agreed,  if not this quarterly report,  the next for sure.  All they will see is decreasing zeroes...


    I agree and disagree. Everyone knows SWG is not paying for itself, and in a normal situation, that wou;ld be cause to put a bullet in it's head. But how does the whole station pass package play into this? They can't just kill SWG without the station subscribers going nuts. They may not play SWG (as evidenced when you log in and look around), but I'd gander that a bit of hell will break lose when SOE removes their right to play SWG. If anything, they'll need another game to replace SWG first. Vangaurd? DC? I don't see a sunset for SWG until it's replaced to satisfy the Station subbers.
  • JestorRodoJestorRodo Member UncommonPosts: 2,642

    I wish SOE would sunset

    Unaware of the Jestor?
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  • dookseiddookseid Member Posts: 282


    Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

    Originally posted by dookseid

    Originally posted by Wildcat84

    Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw
    It's their destiny.
    And it's unavoidable.

    Sooner or later the beancounters are going to scream, "Enough!" and it sunsets.



    Agreed,  if not this quarterly report,  the next for sure.  All they will see is decreasing zeroes...


    I agree and disagree. Everyone knows SWG is not paying for itself, and in a normal situation, that wou;ld be cause to put a bullet in it's head. But how does the whole station pass package play into this? They can't just kill SWG without the station subscribers going nuts. They may not play SWG (as evidenced when you log in and look around), but I'd gander that a bit of hell will break lose when SOE removes their right to play SWG. If anything, they'll need another game to replace SWG first. Vangaurd? DC? I don't see a sunset for SWG until it's replaced to satisfy the Station subbers.


    Good point.  But I also point to the fact they had no qualms whatsoever about who they pissed off when they changed the whole game either.  When it comes to the bottom line,  I feel this company is capable of anything!
  • AntariousAntarious Member UncommonPosts: 2,804

    "And it's unavoidable.

    Sooner or later the beancounters are going to scream, "Enough!" and it sunsets.


    Agreed,  if not this quarterly report,  the next for sure.  All they will see is decreasing zeroes..."

    ***

    That's what gets me about the whole thing.  Basicly because

    1) SOE is or is part of a publicly traded company.

    As such profit is everything because shareholders expect dividends on their investment.

    2) The game was run into the ground regardless of who is at fault

    SOE

    LA

    or both.

    If you look at it from the SOE view.  They are paying a license fee (costly) and have an ever decreasing pay base.  Through those that quit and those that get banned by the forum nazi's and quit etc..

    They have to be close to critical mass on what they can lose on SWG... At some point shareholders are going to want answers... and you can't ban them from a forum.. as they pretty much "own you".

    So...

    What gets me is why is the game still around.  SOE knows how to fix it.. They aren't stupid.  So why aren't they?

    To run the game into the ground to get out of a bad contract (smed has made statements to the effect of working with a 3rd party ip holder that has tied their hands and doesn't understand online gaming.. then went on to talk about how good the DC Comics people are in comparison.. it didn't take alot to figure out he meant LA) doesn't really make sense.

    If they could break the contract they would have.  So purposely losing money while still paying a license fee only hurts SOE.

    Or

    Is it really supposed to be that they just can't afford anyone that knows how to fix it.  I seriously find that hard to believe... but it could be.

    In fact you know what.. I really don't know how to logicly type what I want to say.. in a way that I think would relate what I really mean.

    I just have felt something is really odd about the whole deal.  As much as I'm pissed about the changes... It just doesn't make sense on the corporate level to let this happen... and I really feel there is something *we* or at least *I* don't know...

    I personally don't believe they can't fix it... or don't have people who can.

    So I just don't understand why they are so willing to keep going farther down the drain and ever closer to the sewer.

    It just doesn't make sense.. and I really wonder... why its going on.

    I also figure there has to be enough share holders asking about this by now... The stock has lost so much value its just sick.  Maybe someday we'll actually find out why they let it continue to go this way...  I just can't find a logical explination to purposely lose what they have in term of profit and profit potential.

    Or maybe they really just do a lot of drugs at SOE...

  • SODAofBRIASODAofBRIA Member Posts: 351

    SWG will continue to limp through it's existence for a little while. At the least, probably another 6 months.

    They have the new boxes coming out. You have to give those boxes some time to move before you pack it in.

    We can only hope that in a desperate attempt to make some cash, they release some sort of classic server. That will, more than likely, depend a lot on the upcoming box sales.

    Love, Sodapop

  • FormathorFormathor Member Posts: 53


    Originally posted by Antarious

    "And it's unavoidable.

    Sooner or later the beancounters are going to scream, "Enough!" and it sunsets.



    Agreed,  if not this quarterly report,  the next for sure.  All they will see is decreasing zeroes..."

    ***
    That's what gets me about the whole thing.  Basicly because
    1) SOE is or is part of a publicly traded company.
    As such profit is everything because shareholders expect dividends on their investment.
    2) The game was run into the ground regardless of who is at fault
    SOE
    LA
    or both.
    If you look at it from the SOE view.  They are paying a license fee (costly) and have an ever decreasing pay base.  Through those that quit and those that get banned by the forum nazi's and quit etc..
    They have to be close to critical mass on what they can lose on SWG... At some point shareholders are going to want answers... and you can't ban them from a forum.. as they pretty much "own you".
    So...
    What gets me is why is the game still around.  SOE knows how to fix it.. They aren't stupid.  So why aren't they?
    To run the game into the ground to get out of a bad contract (smed has made statements to the effect of working with a 3rd party ip holder that has tied their hands and doesn't understand online gaming.. then went on to talk about how good the DC Comics people are in comparison.. it didn't take alot to figure out he meant LA) doesn't really make sense.
    If they could break the contract they would have.  So purposely losing money while still paying a license fee only hurts SOE.
    Or
    Is it really supposed to be that they just can't afford anyone that knows how to fix it.  I seriously find that hard to believe... but it could be.

    In fact you know what.. I really don't know how to logicly type what I want to say.. in a way that I think would relate what I really mean.
    I just have felt something is really odd about the whole deal.  As much as I'm pissed about the changes... It just doesn't make sense on the corporate level to let this happen... and I really feel there is something *we* or at least *I* don't know...
    I personally don't believe they can't fix it... or don't have people who can.
    So I just don't understand why they are so willing to keep going farther down the drain and ever closer to the sewer.
    It just doesn't make sense.. and I really wonder... why its going on.
    I also figure there has to be enough share holders asking about this by now... The stock has lost so much value its just sick.  Maybe someday we'll actually find out why they let it continue to go this way...  I just can't find a logical explination to purposely lose what they have in term of profit and profit potential.
    Or maybe they really just do a lot of drugs at SOE...


    Maybe there's a contractual reason why they cant let it die. Sony may have re bid for the contract back when they still believed in the NGE now they are stuck with it.

    Just a guess but as good a guess as any. They bid that they will provide an online game for X months an LA is holding them to it.

    (shrug)

  • ObiwillObiwill Member Posts: 30
    I wish it would ride off into the sunset, but the fact that it is still here makes me suspect someone with loads of cash is bound and determined to MAKE it work.  Whether LA won't let it die, thus admitting something failed in George Lucas' franchise (gasp), or whether SOE has contractual obligations, or worse yet aspirations to bring it to its PS3, I couldn't tell.  Maybe someone just forgot to delete it from their servers before going home?

  • dookseiddookseid Member Posts: 282


    Originally posted by Antarious

    "And it's unavoidable.

    Sooner or later the beancounters are going to scream, "Enough!" and it sunsets.



    Agreed,  if not this quarterly report,  the next for sure.  All they will see is decreasing zeroes..."

    ***
    That's what gets me about the whole thing.  Basicly because
    1) SOE is or is part of a publicly traded company.
    As such profit is everything because shareholders expect dividends on their investment.
    2) The game was run into the ground regardless of who is at fault
    SOE
    LA
    or both.
    If you look at it from the SOE view.  They are paying a license fee (costly) and have an ever decreasing pay base.  Through those that quit and those that get banned by the forum nazi's and quit etc..
    They have to be close to critical mass on what they can lose on SWG... At some point shareholders are going to want answers... and you can't ban them from a forum.. as they pretty much "own you".
    So...
    What gets me is why is the game still around.  SOE knows how to fix it.. They aren't stupid.  So why aren't they?
    To run the game into the ground to get out of a bad contract (smed has made statements to the effect of working with a 3rd party ip holder that has tied their hands and doesn't understand online gaming.. then went on to talk about how good the DC Comics people are in comparison.. it didn't take alot to figure out he meant LA) doesn't really make sense.
    If they could break the contract they would have.  So purposely losing money while still paying a license fee only hurts SOE.
    Or
    Is it really supposed to be that they just can't afford anyone that knows how to fix it.  I seriously find that hard to believe... but it could be.

    In fact you know what.. I really don't know how to logicly type what I want to say.. in a way that I think would relate what I really mean.
    I just have felt something is really odd about the whole deal.  As much as I'm pissed about the changes... It just doesn't make sense on the corporate level to let this happen... and I really feel there is something *we* or at least *I* don't know...
    I personally don't believe they can't fix it... or don't have people who can.
    So I just don't understand why they are so willing to keep going farther down the drain and ever closer to the sewer.
    It just doesn't make sense.. and I really wonder... why its going on.
    I also figure there has to be enough share holders asking about this by now... The stock has lost so much value its just sick.  Maybe someday we'll actually find out why they let it continue to go this way...  I just can't find a logical explination to purposely lose what they have in term of profit and profit potential.
    Or maybe they really just do a lot of drugs at SOE...


    I think the reason it isn't sunsetted yet is because shareholders don't actually see the numbers for each game,  they  may see SOE division of Sony numbers but not a break down of what each game is doing. 

    As a shareholder you may be able to request those numbers but I don't think anyone really knows what those numbers are  for sure except the accountants doing the work.

  • Bob_BlawblawBob_Blawblaw Member Posts: 1,278


    Originally posted by dookseid

    Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

    Originally posted by dookseid

    Originally posted by Wildcat84

    Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw
    It's their destiny.
    And it's unavoidable.

    Sooner or later the beancounters are going to scream, "Enough!" and it sunsets.



    Agreed,  if not this quarterly report,  the next for sure.  All they will see is decreasing zeroes...


    I agree and disagree. Everyone knows SWG is not paying for itself, and in a normal situation, that wou;ld be cause to put a bullet in it's head. But how does the whole station pass package play into this? They can't just kill SWG without the station subscribers going nuts. They may not play SWG (as evidenced when you log in and look around), but I'd gander that a bit of hell will break lose when SOE removes their right to play SWG. If anything, they'll need another game to replace SWG first. Vangaurd? DC? I don't see a sunset for SWG until it's replaced to satisfy the Station subbers.


    Good point.  But I also point to the fact they had no qualms whatsoever about who they pissed off when they changed the whole game either.  When it comes to the bottom line,  I feel this company is capable of anything!


    Take a look at the Station Access box. SWG is the main attraction (somehow). I'd guess becuase of this fact, it won't be so easy for SOE to shutterdown. Now SWG is doomed to walk the earth as a not-quite-dead, definetly-not-alive abomination. They will need to replace the centerpiece if they want to shelf SWG.

    Of course, as you said, it's SOE. Nothing they do would really surprise me. So they could take an attractive (to the naive) 5 game bundle and rip the game that's probably selling the most copies out of it without batting an eye, and keeping the price the same. Who knows.

  • ObeeObee Member Posts: 1,550


    Originally posted by Wildcat84
    It's coming.  Later than it should have but sooner than the SOE fanbois will be expecting.





    It depends on how the licencing agreement is set up.   SOE might be stuck paying for the rights even if they don't use them.  In that case, the game continues without much in the way of support until the agreement runs out or they negotiate its end.  That is the way most licencing agreements work.



  • Wildcat84Wildcat84 Member Posts: 2,304

    Actually, the shareholders see profit/loss by division.  I don't know if by actual game, since Sarbanes-Oxley regulations hit.  You could argue that each MMO is a division of SOE and should be subject to reporting.  But it'd take a shareholder to press that.

    3-6 months is about all I give the NGE before it's gone barring drastic change.  It's not like the other games on all access, as they don't make very much from it and have to pay LEC.  They also can't just cease development as they more or less have done with Planetside and MXO.  My guess is they cut a deal with LEC to give up the rights, etc, and close it down.

    As for AAP users being pissed, I doubt that would be very many or a very big deal.  Most AAP users are EQ2 players who have it for the extra slots and the free adventure packs (and it's quite a good deal just for that alone), and I bet a number have it also to still be able to play EQ1 at times.  I'd say very few if any AAP users are primarily or even seriously a SWG player.  Bruce over at MMORPGCHART has said there aren't more than 50K AAP users anyway.

    Plus, keep in mind that AAP will be getting Vanguard very soon as well as the DC Comics MMO when it comes out, so it's not as if they'd really have a legit complaint.

    The reasons why I see the beancounters as ultimately forcing the shutdown of SOE's money losing and marginal MMO's is to make the books look better as Sony as a whole is really going down the tubes, especially with rootkit gate and the PS3 fiasco.  SOE is about to add Gods and Generals, Vanguard, and the DC Comics MMO to their load for server hosting, customer service, management overhead, etc.  The beancounters will see them being able to get rid of MMOs like SWG and maybe MXO (for all I know they may actually make money on it though) and their overhead and turn those resources over to something that might make them more money. 

    The only properties SOE has that are worth anything are EQ and EQ2.  Everything else is a loss leader.



  • jrscottjrscott Member Posts: 1,252


    Originally posted by ShiloFields

    Even the games that are coming out in the next year are so look to be significantly behind what SWG was.  WoW has caused a general dumbing down of the MMO market.  I am afraid we will never see a game as good as SWG again.


    Never is a very, very long time.  The game industry is still a very immature industry filled with a lot of wannabe business moguls who don't understand the concept of longterm viability.  Abandoning 2/3 of your market by ripping their game out from under them is only one problem I see.  Building persistent world based games where the only point is to gain in level until there are no more levels makes no sense either. 

    What we have are a bunch of hacks at the controls only worried about today's profits with no eye towards the future.  Get the players in the game and we'll figure out later how to keep them.  SOE seems to have a strategy, and that is to string veteran players along with promises of new "shinies and trinkets" and promises of making the game actually work one day.  That does not sound like a good strategy to me, but then again, I have no degree.

    There are people who see a new market being created.  That market is the disillusioned ex-MMORPG player that wants an MMORPG to be released that won't show them the door when they have finished all the directed content.  There are people out there working their tails off to try and get the ungodly sums of money or labor necessary to build a great MMORPG.  I count myself in that crowd.  Don't give up just yet. 

    I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever :)

  • dookseiddookseid Member Posts: 282

    All I know is that when you have a product boasting 6 to 7 million players (WoW) who are on a large percentage adolescent,  going to be finishing with WoW shortly, and ready to hop into a more complex mode of play,  someone better be there to fill the void.

    SOE could have polished their Galaxies product,  added content, and been there to fill that void,  but alas they failed to look ahead.  They dumbed it down to try and attract what was NoW,  and the bottom line has to show it both financially and publicly.

  • Wildcat84Wildcat84 Member Posts: 2,304


    Originally posted by dookseid

    All I know is that when you have a product boasting 6 to 7 million players (WoW) who are on a large percentage adolescent,  going to be finishing with WoW shortly, and ready to hop into a more complex mode of play,  someone better be there to fill the void.
    SOE could have polished their Galaxies product,  added content, and been there to fill that void,  but alas they failed to look ahead.  They dumbed it down to try and attract what was NoW,  and the bottom line has to show it both financially and publicly.


    In a drawer of sharp knives, Smed/Helios/Torres are spoons.

  • ObeeObee Member Posts: 1,550


    Originally posted by jrscott

    Originally posted by ShiloFields

    Even the games that are coming out in the next year are so look to be significantly behind what SWG was.  WoW has caused a general dumbing down of the MMO market.  I am afraid we will never see a game as good as SWG again.

    Never is a very, very long time.  The game industry is still a very immature industry filled with a lot of wannabe business moguls who don't understand the concept of longterm viability.  Abandoning 2/3 of your market by ripping their game out from under them is only one problem I see.  Building persistent world based games where the only point is to gain in level until there are no more levels makes no sense either. 

    What we have are a bunch of hacks at the controls only worried about today's profits with no eye towards the future.  Get the players in the game and we'll figure out later how to keep them.  SOE seems to have a strategy, and that is to string veteran players along with promises of new "shinies and trinkets" and promises of making the game actually work one day.  That does not sound like a good strategy to me, but then again, I have no degree.

    There are people who see a new market being created.  That market is the disillusioned ex-MMORPG player that wants an MMORPG to be released that won't show them the door when they have finished all the directed content.  There are people out there working their tails off to try and get the ungodly sums of money or labor necessary to build a great MMORPG.  I count myself in that crowd.  Don't give up just yet. 



    When the movie industry was still immature (30's-50's) they were producing a couple classics per yer.  Today the movie industry has matured and they are producing tons of crap and very few classics per decade.  As most industries mature, their products become more cookie cutter and standardised in the pursuit of maximizing profits.  The gaming industry has already pretty much reached that point.

    I actually think the success of WoW is both a good and bad thing.  It is bad in the fact that most new MMORPG's are going to be WoW clones in failed attempts to reproduce its success, and good in the fact that more companies will be willing to jump into the MMOG market since they see that there is a huge market.  I hope that at least a few of them try something different, but the more that do and fail, the fewer and fewer will be willing to try.



  • kaibigan34kaibigan34 Member Posts: 1,508
    Wanting SWG to sunset or shutdown is like calling it a draw. Saying "We wont get what we want so lets just agree to disagree and move on."

    I am not for that. I want SWG classic back. And I wont settle for a draw. I will never settle for less. SOE owes everyone alot more then that. And I will not accept them taking the coward's way out.

    Kai


  • jrscottjrscott Member Posts: 1,252


    Originally posted by dookseid

    All I know is that when you have a product boasting 6 to 7 million players (WoW) who are on a large percentage adolescent,  going to be finishing with WoW shortly, and ready to hop into a more complex mode of play,  someone better be there to fill the void.


    This is a pretty good point.  I may have to use it as justification in my business plan for building something more mature and complex than WoW.  Hope you don't mind. 

    I realize I said I quit. I never said it was forever :)

  • CenturionXIXCenturionXIX Member Posts: 9

    I am one of the Pre-CU players that wishes more than anything to have the game back. Like the author of this thread said in his first post, i have gone to other games but nothing comes close to the glory days of Pre CU SWG. I would love them to reroll back to original servers, because i know they would get tens of thousands of players to come back, including me. But all of us know that it will never happen. On the topic of shutting it down, i could care less, because the game is just ruined now.

    Formerly known as Skolo Boscrati-------Radiant Server----Imperial for life

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