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FFXI= EQII?

Hello,

I was playing FFXI for 3yrs, recently quit playing it. At the time I quit, I had 5 level 75 chars, had beat all the expansion missions and was a 100 level Goldsmither crafter among other things. Im very used to "grind" games to say the least (meaning exp accumulation). I dont mind these types of games as it tends to weed out most of the kiddies with the A.D.D. attention spans. One thing I know about FFXI, is that if you didnt start it years ago, you are at a disadvantage somewhat like all games, but you can still "catch up" although doing all the expansions would take you some time to finish.

I am interested in the upcoming Vanguard as I hear its mainly PvE environment, and I love to catch new MMOs on the ground floor. But this is a little time off; in the meantime I think EQII is the closest thing to a mature environment it looks like from reading most MMO posts, combined with decent graphics.

My question is: How does EQII compare to FFXI or does it not at all? Since both are longer exp type games, I know its more content heavy which is what I like. But how about other things? Graphics, economy (pretty hard NOT to beat FFXI economy with the gilsellers), Storyline, etc. Im really interested in a head-head comparsion between the two from ppl who know both games, as opposed to EQII vs a mixture of other MMOs. Thx in advance^^

And would someone; some company, some developer... Design a MMO that would be something real Adults would like and then price it for $25-$30 a month to play? A combination of EQ1, FFXI, and Eve that has 1) Great story 2) Great graphics 3) Expansive missions? Please recognize that your gaming audience is changing now: We are older, with more disposable income, and dont want to really kill teenagers over/over/over. With a high tag, youd keep the kids out, wouldnt need such a big audience either. So hire the best writers, designers and programmers... we'll pay for it if its good.

If you build it, we will come.

Comments

  • SolkinSolkin Member Posts: 25


    Originally posted by Bigstrongman


    And would someone; some company, some developer... Design a MMO that would be something real Adults would like and then price it for $25-$30 a month to play? A combination of EQ1, FFXI, and Eve that has 1) Great story 2) Great graphics 3) Expansive missions? Please recognize that your gaming audience is changing now: We are older, with more disposable income, and dont want to really kill teenagers over/over/over. With a high tag, youd keep the kids out, wouldnt need such a big audience either. So hire the best writers, designers and programmers... we'll pay for it if its good.
    If you build it, we will come.


    Hey, I could sure go for that!  Hell, I'd pay up to $50/month for a game that was actually good.  I'm pretty much at the point of mmorpg suicide as I have been playing these silly things since Asheron's Call 1, and it seems they are getting worse and worse with every release.  No wonder none of them can ever keep a player base big enough to keep it running long term.

    On the words of FFXI & EQ2, I am probably one of the few that actually pay and subscribe to both games, and have high level characters in both games.  Both games have their good points, and bad points, and if they would just all of a sudden merge together to make one SUPER game, then I would be like a little boy on christmas morning!  Oh, how we wish for things that seem to never happen.

    I don't actually have time to get into details right now, as I am at work, and about to go home, but I have logged in over 200days of play time in both games and counting, so I should know a little bit of what I am talking about.  I will have to continue this post once I get home.  I have plenty of valid arguments for both games, and believe one is not better than the other, but how I wish they would incorperate all the good points into the same game, and flush the crap down the toilet.

    >> TO BE CONTINUED <<

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  • BigstrongmanBigstrongman Member Posts: 8

    Thx for the reply Solkin^^

    I have done some more reading/surfing around and think EQII will be a good holdover game for me til newer releases. I guess the only question I would have now are (and easily commented on by a Vet of both games) is regards to character.

    In FFXI, my first 75 was a Dark Knight (jah, big mistake ) If I would have known how long it took for me to get parties, and the proper rings and armor, I would have NOT played that one to start. At 75, its a strong character, but there are things it does others can do in terms of damage as well (Samurai, etc), so I would have chosen something else just to avoid the headaches of having flags up for invites for hours.

    As an example, Whitemage was relatively cheap. You didnt need the best gear really, and always got the first invite for a party. So, if I was gonna play FFXI as a new game, I'd do WHM first, simply in terms of ease of parties to actually level/learn the game more.

    Another character I would have done maybe first, was Thief. Although initially when I was playing them, they didnt get a lot of party play as they were misunderstood in terms of total damage and were not the best for EVERY mission, they became a well sought after class after awhile. And in terms of sheer earning power, (with Treasure Hunter I, II, Thief's Knife etc), it really made the character worth it to level just for gil earning alone by soloing and getting way better drops on each boss kill or regular mobs. A good THF could sustain your whole crafting without too much difficulty.

    Crafting.. I would never do cooking to 90 again, only to drop it and start Goldsmithing to 100. Yes, I did that. But only because cooking made none (very little) and Goldsmithing made a mint.

    Blackmage was a very high demand job that I got, earned money and was fun to play and got a lot of parties. (Manaburns.. mmmm) There were a few others (Beastmaster) that I played simply for fun and some farming aspects, as well as soloing quests for people.

    With this background, I realized Id like two things in EQII: A character that gets lots of parties (doesnt have to be a Healer or Tank class, but will do it if I have to) and a tradeskill that will earn good gold. Now, some people will say you can make good gold doing any craft, which is true if you stick with it long enough, but at the HIGH end of the tradeskill, there is always one or two that really rake in the gold.

    Solkin,  Id like your advice. Doesnt have to be perfect^^ just honest.

    1) Other than Healer or Tank, what job is really sought after by the EQII community as almost a third must?  (Like BLM and RNG were in FFXI) I see Necromancer as a situational, but not looking like it would get mass invites if other jobs were available.

    2) Are the Scout class jobs given "Treasure Bonuses" like extra loot dropped per mob kill, better chance at rare items/weapons from bosses? Or is only bonus being able to disarm some treasure chests and doors, but they still only have the same chance at getting a good item at the same rate as every other class? (Cause if the only difference between a Warrior and a Scout class opening a chest is just damage or whatever.. who cares? Warrior is tougher, so unless I got a better drop rate, Id be a Warrior class and eat the damage and heal up^^)

    3) Crafting. If you had to start a character, which tradeskill would you do purely for profit for "endgame" (even though there really isnt one) but not necessarily for fun? Its true the game is played for fun, but sometimes there is a direct relationship to the amount of gold you can get doing something being proportional to the amount of fun you are having in a MMORPG^^  Being able to fund things is invaluable, and earning it is even a greater sense of satisfaction. In FFXI, Goldsmithing made the most, but Clothcraft was high too. Both cost a lot to raise, but the payoff at high level was immense, which allowed you to fund other things (armor, furnishings, etc). So, in your opinion, which Tradeskill craft in EQII is ? (Not that Id flood the market, it would be a looooooooooooooooooong time before I could impact the established crafters) Oh, and is food/consumables still the worst?

    Know this is a lot, but thx for taking the time to read it at least^^

  • SolkinSolkin Member Posts: 25

    Hiya, well, first of all, I am just going to quote all the thing you have said and comment or answer questions that were asked, and then add in some things that I have learned along the way.  Please remember, this is just my opinion, and if you asked someone else, you might get a totally different opinion on the same matter.  Anyways, away we go...  My responses are in quotes and not bolded within the quote below.



    Originally posted by Bigstrongman
    Thx for the reply Solkin^^

    I have done some more reading/surfing around and think EQII will be a good holdover game for me til newer releases. I guess the only question I would have now are (and easily commented on by a Vet of both games) is regards to character.

    "Good show, actually I think EQ2 is the best alternative to a FFXI player that has played for as long as you have.  I have played FFXI since the PC release in November 2003 and have 5 jobs at level 75, or near it anyways.  I haven't played EQ2 as long, probably only around the last 7 or so months.  I have personally been jumping all over the place for the last little while trying out all these different games.  I've been nabbing up every free-trial around, and keep falling back on the games I've been playing for the past 3 years.  RF Online was my latest foray into mmo free trials.  Nice looking game, and the battle system is fun, but it falls seriously short everywhere else."

    In FFXI, my first 75 was a Dark Knight (jah, big mistake ) If I would have known how long it took for me to get parties, and the proper rings and armor, I would have NOT played that one to start. At 75, its a strong character, but there are things it does others can do in terms of damage as well (Samurai, etc), so I would have chosen something else just to avoid the headaches of having flags up for invites for hours.

    "You know what my first job to 75 was?  DRG.  yup.  I even leveled it up during the dark times, before they shaved 240k of exp from the grind and before they fixed the job and it's 2 hour.  How?  Well, I made great friends really fast, and never really waited for a party invite, as I always had someone that I knew in a party and got a fast invite.  I found that most people started with DRK when the game went live in the states, and it was an over played job.  My second job to 75 was RDM.  Party invites were fast, but by the time I hit the 60's I hated the job with a passion.  It was sooooo damn boring.  Other jobs to 75,  BLM, MNK, & THF.  The job that I probably had the worst time with party invites was MNK in the 50's.  MNK's huge downfall is it's inability to do the Distortion skillchain until level 61.  But all in all, it's been an easy ride via party invites, as I had tons of friends to party with.  Which I think is the main reason why people complain about the party system so much in FFXI.  Those with few to no friends weren't getting parties, and quit."

    As an example, Whitemage was relatively cheap. You didnt need the best gear really, and always got the first invite for a party. So, if I was gonna play FFXI as a new game, I'd do WHM first, simply in terms of ease of parties to actually level/learn the game more.

    "Yes, I agree."

    Another character I would have done maybe first, was Thief. Although initially when I was playing them, they didnt get a lot of party play as they were misunderstood in terms of total damage and were not the best for EVERY mission, they became a well sought after class after awhile. And in terms of sheer earning power, (with Treasure Hunter I, II, Thief's Knife etc), it really made the character worth it to level just for gil earning alone by soloing and getting way better drops on each boss kill or regular mobs. A good THF could sustain your whole crafting without too much difficulty.

    "Theif is a GREAT job!  I had easy and quick invites until I was 70+ and then it fell off.  I waited for a 70+ party for like 3-4 weeks before I finally nabbed one.  It took me like twice as long to to go from 70-75 then it did from 1-70.  ugh."

    Crafting.. I would never do cooking to 90 again, only to drop it and start Goldsmithing to 100. Yes, I did that. But only because cooking made none (very little) and Goldsmithing made a mint.

    "Crafting in FFXI is a COMPLETE WASTE OF TIME!  I took Clothcraft and Fishing both to 100.  What a waste of time that was.  Thats one thing I love about EQ2 is it's crafting system.  OMG, best crafting EVER!  I will explain a little about why later."

    Blackmage was a very high demand job that I got, earned money and was fun to play and got a lot of parties. (Manaburns.. mmmm) There were a few others (Beastmaster) that I played simply for fun and some farming aspects, as well as soloing quests for people.

    "Aye!"

    With this background, I realized Id like two things in EQII: A character that gets lots of parties (doesnt have to be a Healer or Tank class, but will do it if I have to) and a tradeskill that will earn good gold. Now, some people will say you can make good gold doing any craft, which is true if you stick with it long enough, but at the HIGH end of the tradeskill, there is always one or two that really rake in the gold.

    "Great thing about EQ2 is it's economy and the price of gear and how damn easy it is to get the money to buy them.  Basically, I played the entire level range with my best friend.  We pretty much duo'ed the entire quest system.  Minus the areas and quest that you absolutly needed a party to get through that is.  Not once did I have to stop and farm just so I could buy something.  I think money is a thing that you don't really need to worry about in EQ2.  The thing with FFXI, is that everything is a huge Grind.  Everything is disconnected from each other.  You either got exp, or drop, or quested, but NEVER together at the same time.

    Guess what!?  The only character that is really needed in a EQ2 group is a healer of somekind, and maybe a tank.  The rest is up for grabs.  The party system in EQ2 is very lenient compared to FFXI's party system.  And you aren't forced to play with a full party.  So about picking a good character in EQ2, pick whatever tickles your fancy.  One note though is the Shadow Knight class on the evil side and it's equivalent on the good side.  It's a tank/dd hybrid.  It's can do both, but neither very well.  Although it's probalby the best class for PvP."

    Solkin,  Id like your advice. Doesnt have to be perfect^^ just honest.

    1) Other than Healer or Tank, what job is really sought after by the EQII community as almost a third must?  (Like BLM and RNG were in FFXI) I see Necromancer as a situational, but not looking like it would get mass invites if other jobs were available.

    "Believe it or not, there is basically 4 job types, and each type has 4 more sub classes in it as they would say. for a total of 16 job classes.  All of which I find get parties perfectly fine.  The staple of a good quest party would be the healer as I mentioned above."

    2) Are the Scout class jobs given "Treasure Bonuses" like extra loot dropped per mob kill, better chance at rare items/weapons from bosses? Or is only bonus being able to disarm some treasure chests and doors, but they still only have the same chance at getting a good item at the same rate as every other class? (Cause if the only difference between a Warrior and a Scout class opening a chest is just damage or whatever.. who cares? Warrior is tougher, so unless I got a better drop rate, Id be a Warrior class and eat the damage and heal up^^)

    "I honestly don't really have an answer for this question.  I have not played or know anyone personally that has played the thief/scout classes. so my knowledge on such a thing is extremely limited."

    3) Crafting. If you had to start a character, which tradeskill would you do purely for profit for "endgame" (even though there really isnt one) but not necessarily for fun? Its true the game is played for fun, but sometimes there is a direct relationship to the amount of gold you can get doing something being proportional to the amount of fun you are having in a MMORPG^^  Being able to fund things is invaluable, and earning it is even a greater sense of satisfaction. In FFXI, Goldsmithing made the most, but Clothcraft was high too. Both cost a lot to raise, but the payoff at high level was immense, which allowed you to fund other things (armor, furnishings, etc). So, in your opinion, which Tradeskill craft in EQII is ? (Not that Id flood the market, it would be a looooooooooooooooooong time before I could impact the established crafters) Oh, and is food/consumables still the worst?

    "WHAT EVER YOU WANT!  Yes, the craft system in Everquest II in my humble opinion has got to be the BEST aspect of the game.  I just can't emphisize how friggen awesome it is.  For starters your resource materials are scattered EVERYWHERE!  (Well, in the areas that they are found in anyways.)  Unlike in FFXI where you have to fight for just a couple mining spots, the resources are EVERYWHERE, and in plenty supply for everyone.  The basic components that are used for crafting such as liquids, candles, things like that, can all be purchased for a pretty cheap price from the npc within the crafting guild.  Then when you actually get into the crafting bit, you have to craft every part of the item.  For instance if you are crafting a sword, you will need to craft the blade, the hilt, the leather on the hilt, etc.  All your recipes can be bought from the guild npc for each level you hit.  The higher level recipe books are mob drops.  To make the crafting a little less mundain is the crafting quests that you can get.  Your guild master will ask you to make 10 items, and he will reward you with craft exp and some money for successfully completing his task.  I will spend hours just crafting, and enjoy doing it, *gasp* yes, that is what I said, I enjoy the crafting while doing it.  When you have your items you can sell your items on the market for a decent amount.  The market is pretty cool, and isn't like FFXI's Auction hall, but more like a world wide bazaar as you may."

    Know this is a lot, but thx for taking the time to read it at least^^


    Some other things I like about EQ2 is it's housing.  You can rent a house, and get extremely cool items to put in your house and guess what!?  You can actually invite other people into your house. :O

    The world graphics look great, but as a result the character graphics and animations take a pretty big hit, and tend to be on quite the poor level.  Another thing with Everquest II, is that you better have a computer that can run it well.  I'm sitting here with a 2.53ghz cpu with 1gb ddrram, and a ati 9700, and I'm having issues running it at the "Average" setting.  When I was playing RF Online, I found that it had way better graphics as a whole, and it barely skipped a beat at the highest settings on my computer.  I think that EQ2's graphics engine was poorly made, and they HAD to skimp on the character graphics just so it would run.  I tend to laugh everytime I see a waterfall in EQ2 too.  The water is beautiful, but the waterfalls look funny, lol. o.O

    One thing that you will notice right away when playing EQ2 if you have played World of Warcraft, is that the game interface is pretty much a carbon copy of each other.

    The quest system is like that of WoW's quest system, but I find that EQ2's quest are ALOT more involved and actually do a pretty good job and telling a story and there is actually some point.  The best part of EQ2's quests is that most of the NPC's actually have voice over and actualy sound good.  You also have to remember that there are only 2 NPC's in the entire training/trial island that actually talk.  And you have to make sure you spend the billion hours of update time to get the voice overs downloaded (which is toggled in the options in the launcher.)  Compared to WoW's quests, EQ2's quests are a billion times better, and you actually get usuable rewards for your time and effort.  But I still like FFXI's missions, storyline, and overall presentation of said story alot better than either of them.

    Death penalty:  There is pretty much no penalty.  EQ2 uses a system for death simular to City of Heroes, in the aspect of Exp "Debt".  I am a total supporter of the death penalty in FFXI.  I know it hurts when you die, but you are actually given a reason to be cautious and to STAY ALIVE! Instead of running headlong into a group of mobs to see how far you can go before you die, and then run back to get your corpse, and do it again cause there is no penalty for dying.

    PvP:  Everquest II didn't have any PvP'ing for most of it's life, but they recently added servers for just that.  It's not pure PvP, but more like Kingdom vs. Kingdom.  I have played tons of mmo's with PvP in them and I have never really seen it done well, until EQ2 brought it in.  I would say that EQ2's PvP system is the best ever implemented.  It still has flaws, but its the best built that I have seen so far.

    Early on in the game's life, I tried it out, and thought it to be a pretty crappy game.  And the rating system right here on mmorpg.com showed this with it's 7.4 or whatever it had.  SOE has actually made huge strides to make the game better, and so far they are definitly on the right track. It's now up to an 8.2 and in the top 5.   It's still got it's problems, as I won't officially cancel my FFXI (yet), but I am almost there.  There is just too many things that I like better about FFXI, and things that I like about EQ2, that I guess I will be paying to play both games for a little longer.

    2 games that I am waiting for and very interested in trying out are Huxley, and S.U.N.  Both aren't on this site yet, but I have read different interviews with the creaters in various magazines, and they seem pretty close to what I am looking for in a "New Age" mmorpg.  It's seems like every new MMORPG that comes out is just the same old crappy design rehashed into a game experience that sucks worse than anything that we have out there right now.

    I probably don't have to explain and get into detail on why I find FFXI so awesome, as you have played it yourself for about as long as I have, so I won't dive into it.  :D

    My vote for the best current mmo's would be FFXI & EQII, and is probably why I pay for both currently.  But I bet you there are tons of people that don't view my opinions on the games the same.

    Cheers!

    ~Solkin

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