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Paid Expansions slowly becoming a thing of the past....

ElnatorElnator Member Posts: 6,077
Lineage II, EVE, DDO, Horizons (yah I know) and several upcoming games (Darkfall, HJ and several others) all use, or plan to use, a FREE EXPANSION pricing scheme...

Could it be that we're finally seeing the end to having to buy expansions for games we're already paying $180 a year to play?

Personally I hope so.  I've pretty much decided that unless a game offers free expansions with your subscription I'm not going to bother with it. 

Thoughts?


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Comments

  • nthnaounnthnaoun Member Posts: 1,438


    Originally posted by Elnator
    Lineage II, EVE, DDO, Horizons (yah I know) and several upcoming games (Darkfall, HJ and several others) all use, or plan to use, a FREE EXPANSION pricing scheme...

    Could it be that we're finally seeing the end to having to buy expansions for games we're already paying $180 a year to play?

    Personally I hope so.  I've pretty much decided that unless a game offers free expansions with your subscription I'm not going to bother with it. 

    Thoughts?



    One could only hope Elnator. I personally can make no sense of why we need to pay for expansions when other companies have proven that should not have to. I won't go as far as not playing a game that has expansions you have to pay for, but I would definitely consider it a little more than another.

    However, I feel that companies like SOE and EA/Mythic will continue to have expansions that you have to pay for, with SOE being the worst.

  • elateelate Member UncommonPosts: 72

    At very least, hopefully players will get better value for money when they buy expansions now that some games offer them for free.

  • lomillerlomiller Member Posts: 1,810

    Paid expansions mean you have boxes in stores and can pick up new customers.  Games that do not have paid expansions tend to vanish from store shelves after a while and become inaccessible.  An average gamer, someone who hasn’t been heavy into MMO’s is generally not going to pick up EVE or Lineage II because they don’t know they exist.  If they see a box in their local game shop then maybe they will pick it up, but they are not like the people here who know what MMO’s are out there.

    The other thing about paid expansions is that they direct content to the people that actually consume it.  If you are charging a flat fee to everyone you end up charging people for the development of content they are never going to use. 

    The question really if you prefer to be charged for all the content they develop or only the bits that you want to use?  Personally I would rather be charged for the pieces I use.  The companies are in this to make a profit and they are going to charge for the content they develop in one fashion or another, so please don’t come back and say “I would prefer they not charge me at all”.  They will charge you in some form or another, that’s how they stay in business.

  • GorukhaGorukha Member Posts: 1,441
      Answer is no. 

    It's better be hated for who you are, than loved for who you aren't.
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  • Beatnik59Beatnik59 Member UncommonPosts: 2,408

    This was actually how it was supposed to be all along.  MMOs were supposed to make the concept of the expansion purchase a thing of the past...or at least that's what they told us.

    Back in the day, on every FAQ, there was always the question, "Why should we pay for a subscription here where in other games we don't have to pay more?"  The answer was always along the lines of, "Your subscription goes toward new content, new dungeons, new features, and ever expanding gameplay."  Worded like that, a subscription wasn't so bad.  By subscribing to the game, they made it sound like we actually got something for our $10-15 a month, almost like an expansion every month.

    If they had said back then that the $15 would go straight into their pockets, to fund  expansions at an extra price, and use the "perpetual development" mantra to justify nerfs and wholesale redesigns, we would have never jumped on as consumers.  However, one of the good things about competition in this industry is that it causes the publishers to start focusing on the entertainment value per dollar again.

    Still, I don't consider these things like Kali, CoH Issue #7, and those other publishes "expansions," per se.  Its not my choice to opt in or not, and its supposed to be the sort of thing our sub fees should have paid for all along.

    __________________________
    "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
    --Arcken

    "...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
    --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.

    "It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
    --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE

  • SoraellionSoraellion Member UncommonPosts: 558

    Tbh, I play the game if I like it, regardless of cost for expansions. People should stop shouting about cost all the time, things aren't free in life. Games almost cost more cash to produce than movies and that has to be paid for at one way or the other. If a game is really good and the expansions are actually worth it and not an obvious plot to make more money (ofcourse, it's ALWAYS meant to make money but there can be a balance in there) I really don't care if I have to pay for it or not.

    If you don't like it you can always buy a normal game, play it till the end within 2 days, be bored with it and buy another title if you think that's a better option.

  • CopelandCopeland Member Posts: 1,955

    I think it only matters to the kids and students. I personally don't care whether i have to pay for expansions. Alot of people refuse to pay a monthly subscription. I'd pay $50 a month for my dream game :)

  • OmegaLetOmegaLet Member Posts: 588


    Originally posted by Copeland

    I think it only matters to the kids and students. I personally don't care whether i have to pay for expansions. Alot of people refuse to pay a monthly subscription. I'd pay $50 a month for my dream game :)


    I agree. But I am one of those students that doesn't have any money (no job right now) so I can pay for any games or anything. Yet if I did have a job I would subscribe to a game or two, I don't care if it costs anything.

    People worry about money too much. Stop letting money control your lives. If your having fun playing then stop whining. Don't let money take you over.

    image
    image

  • kahnzkahnz Member Posts: 244

    The only game i have seen get ridiculous with expansions is EQ.  Other games have sold expansions and the ones i have bought have usually been worth the money.  I don't mind paying for expansions as long as it is a BONUS and not just stuff that should be included in a monthly update or fixes that should have happened ages ago.  Asheron's Call has had 2 paid expansions in its long life, but they have had monthly content updates since the first month they went gold.  I think that is the way to do it. 

    Also, I heard that WoW's expansion is gonna cost $50?! Give me a break! The original game cost $50!  Now they are telling us that after they have made 700 trillion dollars in box sales and subscriptions they need another 50 x 6,700,000 dollars so they can release this expansion.  Is the new expansion world gonna be as big as the current one? Are they gonna double the number of instances in the game?! Are they gonna double the amount of epic armor and weapons in the game?!!  Are there gonna be twice the number of races and classes as before the expansion?!!!!!?!?!?!?!?!  WoW was touted as a PvP game.  Are they gonna make the PvP twice as exciting?!???!??!?!?!?!!!!!!

    How can Blizzard justify charging as much for the expansion as they charged for the original game?  I won't be buying it until the price drops.  They should sell a Gold edition that has the original and the expansion together, but they should also just sell the expansion as a download to people who already have subscriptions.  Anything else is just being greedy.

    And IMO they shouldn't charge jack shit for current subscribers. They should just say, "Hey! You guys made us the most successful MMORPG ever.  We are all multi-billionaires thanks to your hard earned money.  To say thank you, we spent a few hundred thousand dollars or so and developed these cool new game features.  I hope you enjoy them. Thank YOU"                           That's what they should fucking do.

  • XyangXyang Member Posts: 216

    I agree with Kanhz on that. 50 bucks for the Burning crusade expansion is high way robbery. I have no problem to pay for expansion, according to the level of content that is added to the game. But when you start charging your expansion the same price then your original game, that's just nuts. It's not like if Blizzard needed that money to survive...

    But i think Blizzard will be the very last to sell expansion that high. With the current mediocrity of MMO right now, the way to crazy profit and sheep customer milking is laid bare. I don't know if the timing was planned that good or if they are just lucky to end up with no serious competition, but they are certainly jumping on the occasion like misery on poor people. (I don't consider any "niche" game like serious competition btw.)

    Please, bring AoC, War Hammer and Vangard already. This madness will stop if those games are as good as they should be, and company will be lucky to get 20$ in the future for their expansion because of the competition on the market.

    What deserves to be done, deserves to be "well" done...

  • anarchyartanarchyart Member Posts: 5,378
    If you don't want to pay for expansions you don't have to. If they are worth it you will pay if you have the money. Expansions take time and money to make, so why on earth should they be free? And don't throw Lineage 2 or EVE in my face. Lineage 2 has had 4 free expansions yes, but it's Lineage 2 and I don't know many people who can name what each expansion added to the game. However I know lots of people who can tell you exactly what came with every EQ expansion. EVE is the exception to the rule.

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  • DasharrDasharr Member Posts: 43


    Originally posted by anarchyart
    If you don't want to pay for expansions you don't have to. If they are worth it you will pay if you have the money. Expansions take time and money to make, so why on earth should they be free? And don't throw Lineage 2 or EVE in my face. Lineage 2 has had 4 free expansions yes, but it's Lineage 2 and I don't know many people who can name what each expansion added to the game. However I know lots of people who can tell you exactly what came with every EQ expansion. EVE is the exception to the rule.

    Because in most games everyone is paying a monthly fee, which supposedly includes further development. As a  (former) long-term player of SWG, I've seen that dev team pleading that they had "no time" to work on the basic game because most of them were working on the expansion that was in production. Then, once it was out of the door, they had to work on fixing it, and by the time it was fixed (well, fixed to a halfway-acceptable standard), they would've started work on the next expansion. That's what I begrudged - a significant chunk of my subscription fee was obviously being spent to make the expansion, which I got charged for again.

    Oddly enough, SOE of all people have joined the "free expansion" list, by giving the "Restuss" SWG event that was meant to be a paid expansion as part of regular game updates. I suspect that their decision was more an act of desperation than anything else, though.

    Dasharr Eandall, SWG, Smuggler/Pistoleer (retired after 2.5+ years)

  • War_DancerWar_Dancer Member Posts: 941


    Originally posted by Elnator
    Lineage II, EVE, DDO, Horizons (yah I know) and several upcoming games (Darkfall, HJ and several others) all use, or plan to use, a FREE EXPANSION pricing scheme...

    Could it be that we're finally seeing the end to having to buy expansions for games we're already paying $180 a year to play?

    Personally I hope so.  I've pretty much decided that unless a game offers free expansions with your subscription I'm not going to bother with it. 

    Thoughts?




    I don't think the games you list are enough to call it a trend. DDO and Horizons are both doing poorly and need the hook to keep the players they have happy and try to get more people to play. EVE is run by a great company that isn't as short term money driven as others, could you see SoE giving out free expansions for example? I don't know enough about Lineage 2 to comment.
  • nomadiannomadian Member Posts: 3,490
    Not a thing of the past, just different choices according to which mmorpg. The bigger ones especially will release expansions for sale as they can recoup the costs and make a lot more. 

  • ianubisiianubisi Member Posts: 4,201

    I don't think one type of model will elimate others. I think companies will continue to do what works for them.

    First rule of capitalism: whatever the marke will bear.

    If people are willing to pay for a product, you don't give it away for free.

  • DamonVileDamonVile Member CommonPosts: 4,818


    Originally posted by Copeland

    I think it only matters to the kids and students. I personally don't care whether i have to pay for expansions. Alot of people refuse to pay a monthly subscription. I'd pay $50 a month for my dream game :)


    I agree $180 a year + $50 for an expantion is worth it to me. Games are my hobby and $230 a year for something I spend this much time on is nothing to me. I wouldn't argue that it's too much for some people but I wont be passing on any games to help fight this cause :)
  • NeptusNeptus Member UncommonPosts: 988


    Originally posted by lomiller
    Paid expansions mean you have boxes in stores and can pick up new customers. Games that do not have paid expansions tend to vanish from store shelves after a while and become inaccessible. An average gamer, someone who hasn’t been heavy into MMO’s is generally not going to pick up EVE or Lineage II because they don’t know they exist. If they see a box in their local game shop then maybe they will pick it up, but they are not like the people here who know what MMO’s are out there.The other thing about paid expansions is that they direct content to the people that actually consume it. If you are charging a flat fee to everyone you end up charging people for the development of content they are never going to use. The question really if you prefer to be charged for all the content they develop or only the bits that you want to use? Personally I would rather be charged for the pieces I use. The companies are in this to make a profit and they are going to charge for the content they develop in one fashion or another, so please don’t come back and say “I would prefer they not charge me at all”. They will charge you in some form or another, that’s how they stay in business.

    Diablo II only had 1 expansion and it's been in stores as long as EverQuest.

    I guess some have minor exceptions.

    Neptus - FFXI - Pandemonium
    Neptus - WoW - Detheroc

  • DiatribeDiatribe Member Posts: 55
    What alot of folks don't understand, is that even tho  people are paying their money per month for their subsciption rate, they're quick to state "This money is for future content as well as maintaining current character content..."  When in reality, roughly 50% goes towards the company paying Bandwidth, Service Techs, GM's, ect and the other 50% goes towards paying other bills the company acrues on a day to day basis, the game you're currently playing's development costs (remember, some games take 10-20 MILLION to make)

    All in all, I don't mind paying for an expansion pack that is WORTH it.  Games like EverQuest's Xpacks such as Ruins of Kunark & Scars of Velious were worth EVERY DIME.  Xpacks like WoW's The Burning Crusade?  I recently quit WoW because I'm so bored with current WoW & the Xpack isn't even worth my attention, let alone my money.

    D.


    So many games, so little time!

  • AnofalyeAnofalye Member Posts: 7,433

    I love both.

    Free expansions are the coolest, but it is normal and expected from a game that generate a monthly income.

    Paid expansions should be optional and not enforced the way some companies enforce them, IMO, new paids expansions should only be applied on NEW servers...existing server should never apply a paid expansion on them.  Have a system for characters transfer or duplication on a new server with a paid expansion added in it.

    A specific server should exist for every new paid expansion, featuring only PART of the other expansions...so you have the original server, the new full blown server with all expansions in it and the "partial", the server with expansion that have a similar vision than itself but not the expansions that are incompatibles...this work should incomb to the team working on the expansion...so each paid expansion would add 2 new types of server.

    Paid expansions should be stand-alone game, you buy the latest, you don't need to buy any other, everything is unlocked automatically.  Obviously, newer servers from newer expansions would be locked to you, yet you are 100% free of these on the server(s) you play.  Paid expansion should be RARE and costing at least as much as the original game retail price, as a stand-alone game.

    - "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren

  • GreatnessGreatness Member UncommonPosts: 2,053


    Originally posted by anarchyart
    If you don't want to pay for expansions you don't have to. If they are worth it you will pay if you have the money. Expansions take time and money to make, so why on earth should they be free? And don't throw Lineage 2 or EVE in my face. Lineage 2 has had 4 free expansions yes, but it's Lineage 2 and I don't know many people who can name what each expansion added to the game. However I know lots of people who can tell you exactly what came with every EQ expansion. EVE is the exception to the rule.

    You know how big the expansions for Lineage 2 are?? I definitely say go check around some sites and they may still have all the things being added/changed in the chronicles... You will definitely be amazed.

    Paying for expansions should stop since we are already paying monthly fees, what more?


    ~Greatness~

    MMORPG Blog
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  • GameloadingGameloading Member UncommonPosts: 14,182
    I have no idea, really. it could very well be possible. WoW and EQ2 will most likely always charge for paid expansions. I do know that korean MMO's will never charge for extra expansions, because of the internet cafe culture. it wouldn't work there.

    I really wonder how Blizzard is going to solve that with the chinese and korean mmorpg market, with the Burning Crusade.


  • DeserttFoxxDeserttFoxx Member UncommonPosts: 2,400

    Lienage 2 has chronicles, and these chronicles arent just little patches, they are huge add ons. Adding dungeons, levels, massive amounts of content. To be hoenst expansions are a ripoff. No one explains what the monthly fee is for, since your paying extra for expansion as well as the monthly fee.

    Everyone makes the arguement that the monthly fee goes towards content, but when that content comes out we gotta pay for ti, so what does the monthly fee go towards?

    I think all game companies should just raise the monthly fee a little, by 2 or 3 dollars, and make all new expansions free. Andthat whole theory about  games dissapering is nonsense. if they just made all downloads digitial with no box fee, and the first month just cost the amount you would pay for buying game instore instead of asking people to find box instore they would be better off.

    Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy

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  • fizzle322fizzle322 Member Posts: 723
    There is no such thing as "free."

    Either they do it by subscription fees, or the box price, or both, but one way or another it gets paid for.

    If anything I feel the industry is getting WORSE, not better.

    It used to be that paying $10 a month was to provide "content" but that went out the window with Everquest charging $10/month and also requiring you to pay for boxed content.

    So what was the $10 for? Keeping up the servers.

    Battlenet didn't charge you $10 a month to play. Guildwars doesn't.

    So most of that $10 a month subscription fee was pure profit for the company, on top of profiting from the box.

    Then WoW came along and the gold standard became $15 a month after also buying the box for $50.

    Blizzard is milking their fanbase just like Sony did.

    It used to be that paying a fee for an MMORPG was like sponsoring an artist. We're no longer sponsoring artists, we're enriching giant international megacorps with no soul.

    Eve deserves $15 a month, they're a small company, and they actually provide CONTENT for your $15 a month. They're not sitting there trying to rip off their fans.

    Guildwars deserves support. I applaud Arenanet for making such a wonderful game free to play. I plunked down $50 for the box over the weekend with no regrets, because I knew they weren't trying to milk me. And I'll plunk down $50 for the expansion. And another $50 for the next one, because I can SEE the content, I can SEE the value they are providing for my money.

    With WoW I didnt see value.

    With Vivaldi I saw a French megacorp milking American children.

    With SOE I saw a Japanese megacorp milking American children.

    Why are they bad for the industry?

    The success of games like WoW encourages soul-less foreign corps to hire slave programmers from India or China for 50 cents an hour, slap together some code and good-looking pictures and sell it to overfed American kids over the internet for a huge profit.

    The success of the mmorpg market has proven that you can put together any piece of schit game, and garner 10-15000 fans which is enough to live very comfortably in Romania and other third-world countries.

    As a matter of social responsibility and integrity, I will no longer be paying any monthly fees to play anything.

    If its a boxed product, I might buy it, and I might buy expansions provided they are quality content.

    Being a smart consumer is a social responsibility.
  • parrotpholkparrotpholk Member EpicPosts: 4,602
    Holy christ you got alot of theories there. Why ppl are against companies making a profit I will never understand. You think they owe you something is that it. They owe you nothing at all. You pay them for a service and either you like it or you dont, end of story. I understand why folks are tweaked when they dont get their way such as with SWG. I get that but to basically say that companies shouldnt make a profit is insanely stupid. Thats great you support Arenanet, I choose not to cause frankly I think Guild Wars is pure shit but thats me and thats what I choose.

    All things in life milk you from your job to gas to whoever you marry or live with. Better get used to it


  • fizzle322fizzle322 Member Posts: 723


    Originally posted by parrotpholk
    Holy christ you got alot of theories there. Why ppl are against companies making a profit I will never understand. You think they owe you something is that it. They owe you nothing at all. You pay them for a service and either you like it or you dont, end of story. I understand why folks are tweaked when they dont get their way such as with SWG. I get that but to basically say that companies shouldnt make a profit is insanely stupid. Thats great you support Arenanet, I choose not to cause frankly I think Guild Wars is pure shit but thats me and thats what I choose.

    All things in life milk you from your job to gas to whoever you marry or live with. Better get used to it





    These companies don't owe me anything, and I don't owe them anything.

    They have a right to make a profit, I have a right to call a ripoff a ripoff.

    If you play WoW or EQ2, you're being milked.

    Milked doesn't mean "profit." Everybody's okay with making a profit.

    Milked means taken for a sucker. Punked. Snookered. Ripped off.

    $5 McDonalds meal is profit. 20 cent meat heated, placed onto a 10 cent bun by a 5 dollar an hour employee, served with a side of fries and soft drink. Thats profit.

    The WoW box looks like a picture of juicy filet minion, perfectly cooked, with a side of cous cous and complementary side salad.

    The price of this delicious meal is $50. Hungrily you purchase the meal, and find yourself munching on a Big Mac.

    Even worse, you gave them your credit card #, so they charge you $15 a month  to keep eating the same Big Mac over and over.

    That's the difference between "profit" and "milked."

    Guildwars = Profit
    Eve = Profit
    Lineage2 = Profit
    WoW = Milked
    EQ = Milked
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