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Epic battles
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Hello, guys
Well, I might be a "rara avis" here, but I for one would love the type of battle I've described above. I have no problem with being "just" a private/pawn/tiny bottom piece in a great battle, as far as I can enjoy the immersion in a meaningful and huge confrontation. I don't mind if someone else gives the orders, I'm in the frontline, fighting my way through, and the thick of battle can provide fun for everyone involved, be it Lord or pleb.
So hardcore players would be frustrated if they aren't the King that Rules the Army? Let them compete for that position. Let the hardest one lead the gang. Let the other candidates be sergeants for army units. Let the rest be privates for that battle.
My "concern" about huge battles without hierarchy is that they are all the same in the long run.
I see your point: few gamers would enjoy this setting, and you are probably right. And thanks for sharing your view.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
There is a reason many people retire at Lt. Colonel.
JackBauer- if you want NPC's as pawns then you should look into God & Heroes.
A large scale system destroying fleet in Eve is probably the only truly epic/war like fights in MMOs today. Most other large scale stuff devolves like QG says.
I think Eve is interesting because of the ship role aspect. Everyone has a job to do and needs to be trained on the right things. Dreadnaughts seige and Interdictors tackle and battships snipe etc etc. Even the newer people can be tacklers or scouts. Bascially Eve benefits from the already well settled navy ship roles and since ships are a major investment in real life they tend to have important roles even if they are smaller. In infantry, especailly pre modern Era, a lot of people wind up as cannon fodder.
A large scale system destroying fleet in Eve is probably the only truly epic/war like fights in MMOs today. Most other large scale stuff devolves like QG says.
I think Eve is interesting because of the ship role aspect. Everyone has a job to do and needs to be trained on the right things. Dreadnaughts seige and Interdictors tackle and battships snipe etc etc. Even the newer people can be tacklers or scouts. Bascially Eve benefits from the already well settled navy ship roles and since ships are a major investment in real life they tend to have important roles even if they are smaller. In infantry, especailly pre modern Era, a lot of people wind up as cannon fodder.
Good comparison. However, Eve style command and control will not work well in a MMORPG IMO. Ill explain why. IN Eve, command type players are designed specificaly to do just that. I mean they CAN fight and all, but NOT as effectively as a soldier who has no command skill but concentrated on offencive skills only. Another problem may arise when those command players are not available for whatever reasons. In PS, the command type player is just a regular player BUT who invested a lot of time leveling command rank. That means that if we have 1000 players in total, and 900 of those managed to get highest command rank, they can still fight effectively because command rank doesnt take away from any other regular ranks. So in PS< you can easily scale back and forward - any command rank player can scaled down and be just a regular grunt in a squad, OR be a CR and order around if no other CR is available. I think the flexibility of PS command structure is better if applied to a MMORPG type of game then Eve command structure. There will be never a shortage of Command Rank players nor will be any negative effect from too many of them.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
A large scale system destroying fleet in Eve is probably the only truly epic/war like fights in MMOs today. Most other large scale stuff devolves like QG says.
I think Eve is interesting because of the ship role aspect. Everyone has a job to do and needs to be trained on the right things. Dreadnaughts seige and Interdictors tackle and battships snipe etc etc. Even the newer people can be tacklers or scouts. Bascially Eve benefits from the already well settled navy ship roles and since ships are a major investment in real life they tend to have important roles even if they are smaller. In infantry, especailly pre modern Era, a lot of people wind up as cannon fodder.
Good comparison. However, Eve style command and control will not work well in a MMORPG IMO. Ill explain why. IN Eve, command type players are designed specificaly to do just that. I mean they CAN fight and all, but NOT as effectively as a soldier who has no command skill but concentrated on offencive skills only. Another problem may arise when those command players are not available for whatever reasons. In PS, the command type player is just a regular player BUT who invested a lot of time leveling command rank. That means that if we have 1000 players in total, and 900 of those managed to get highest command rank, they can still fight effectively because command rank doesnt take away from any other regular ranks. So in PS< you can easily scale back and forward - any command rank player can scaled down and be just a regular grunt in a squad, OR be a CR and order around if no other CR is available. I think the flexibility of PS command structure is better if applied to a MMORPG type of game then Eve command structure. There will be never a shortage of Command Rank players nor will be any negative effect from too many of them.
There is always one(well two sort of) problem from too many commanders, either you have too many cooks spoiling the broth or you have a certain cadre of regular commanders and other people may get excluded.
Fortunately for Planetside, as an FPS type game, its all about action, so I think this is somewhat minimized.
But as with any command structure you run into problems of supply and demand.
Command ships in Eve are more like clerics and buffbots than actual fleet Admirals. The admiral could really be anywhere, the real fleet admiral could easily be in a dreadnaguht as I understand that is actually quite boring and would leave you with a lot of free attention for fleet tactics and strategy.
But I think the real point is that in a game no one really wants to just be one out of 100 guys marchign in a line at 100 other guys in a line ala 18th and 19th century war tactics. No one really wants to be a number with a sword, they will do it if they have to, but that isn't really fun. That is why having diverse roles and multiple kinds of objectives is good. In an Eve system assault you gotta deal the tacklers and defenders, you gotta deal with the Point Defense stations, you gotta do a lot of scouting and monitoring of gates. And not dealing well with any of those could cause you to stall or get ambushed.
But something like a system assault takes tons of planning and if some important commander (ie. one of the planners) doesn't show up well you are kidna doomed anyway.
Planetside is about action, that is why I termed it as more informal. An Eve system assault is a planned out thing that can take weeks to do and weeks to plan. Planetside you can log in and get on the command global and see if some sector needs some help or its a good time to push or just go frag some people etc.
important commander (ie. one of the planners) doesn't show up well you
are kidna doomed anyway.
Yes, gestalt, thats exactly what I mean. Its very important for any major event to be independent of any individual(s). That means, even if just several low level character join the event, it would still take place with NPC soldiers and commanders taking their place. On the other hand, if lots of people attend this event, the highset command rank character takes control, the rest take lesser command roles (squad leaders etc etc). If for any reason the ranking officer logs off, the next in line officer picks up his job. This way there is little interference between officers (each has his own task and abilities) and no dependancies on a specific type of player.
This structure is not without drawbacks. The main drawback as I see it is the fact that commanders become less personalized and unique. You no longer are one of the few, but rather one of the many. This is a worthy tradeoff I think, "character uniqueness" vs "event stability". Definitely worth of a discussion. Post away!
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a piece of the continent, a part of the main. any man's death diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for thee.
Hemingway
I'm not saying I like NPC battles but, I'm not saying I don't like them. I think the mix between NPCs (with HIGH AI) and PvP mixed would assure "Epic Battles". What I don't want to see is Epic Battles being like 50vs50 cause that is not epic at all. Thats actually normal play. As for the rank system:
1. Make it hard to go up rank.
2. I'm not saying that ounce your a Lt. Col. (even though thats not in the time period we are talking about lol) make it so you can still participate in the epic battles but you give orders or something like that.
Such a nice reading to start the day... cheers, mates!
(Planetside: researching! researching!
)
If this is going to be implemented, Barbarians and mages and whatnot with all of the aoe attacks are going to rule the battlefield. I SAY COOL!
I have played P.S. Long story short didnt find it fun ok now answer the question plz.