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pvp without looting, why?

If you cant loot everything from a fallen foe why bother with pvp at all?

Before anyone says "losing your gear is game breaking" lets dispell that myth.

If your gear is crafted it will be relatively cheap and easy to replace.

If as in wow (the worst game ive ever played in mho) the gear is epic, well all the gear is epic so again it doesnt really matter.

Let me clarify on the looting. If a guild declares war on another guild and that guild accepts the state of war then they can loot each other. If you wish to participate in that kind of pvp then you can join a war guild. So unless the actual sight of seeing this is too much to bear and is somehow game breaking I dont see a problem.

 For the people who say there is nothing to loot than why is there like a 200 item inventory?

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Comments

  • JelloB2000JelloB2000 Member CommonPosts: 1,848


    Originally posted by havocthefirs
    If you cant loot everything from a fallen foe why bother with pvp at all?
    Before anyone says "losing your gear is game breaking" lets dispell that myth.
    If your gear is crafted it will be relatively and cheap to replace.
    If as in wow (the worst game ive ever played in mho) the gear is epic, well all the gear is epic so again it doesnt really matter.

    So you made the exact same topic in the WAR forum also, I wont answer because once you read about this game you will realise your topic makes no sense on this board.
    I guess your next posts/topics will be how "carebear" this game is & that there is not enough "hardcore games" out there...
  • klyngsterklyngster Member Posts: 5


    Originally posted by JelloB2000

    So you made the exact same topic in the WAR forum also, I wont answer because once you read about this game you will realise your topic makes no sense on this board.
    I guess your next posts/topics will be how "carebear" this game is & that there is not enough "hardcore games" out there...


    Dude, you need to chill out and stop harassing anyone who posts a negative comment about the game.

  • JelloB2000JelloB2000 Member CommonPosts: 1,848


    Originally posted by klyngster

    Originally posted by JelloB2000
    So you made the exact same topic in the WAR forum also, I wont answer because once you read about this game you will realise your topic makes no sense on this board. I guess your next posts/topics will be how "carebear" this game is & that there is not enough "hardcore games" out there...
    Dude, you need to chill out and stop harassing anyone who posts a negative comment about the game.

    Well "dude", there is now an option to find all posts by one user & this particular user has ONLY posted on how anything but full pvp is carebear. Also I dont see any moderator deleting my message which means there is nothing wrong with it.
    The topic question doesnt make any sense, its nonsense, can you tell me why since you have also read about this game?

    (Where is the negative comment on the game in this thread?)

    Also when someone sends pm:s to you on a IRC & you dont like it use the block/ignore feature in the IRC client (is this the reason why you read every message as "out to get you?).
    I still see no post or evidance of what you are calling "harassment" on these boards or official. Chats are just that; chats where you can listen to people or ignore them.

  • havocthefirshavocthefirs Member Posts: 229
    I gotta reply to you because you are just way too uptight, First of all I didnt think the first post took because it didnt pop up right away. Second, go play virtually 100% of the baby crap thats out there now. Say what you will but I feel no excitement as a PVPer without the thrill that i could lose my stuff. There is NOTHING to lose or gain. So just chill you've got your pick of every game out there, I'm just looking for a game to replace UO in its heyday.
  • CyntheCynthe Member UncommonPosts: 1,414


    Originally posted by havocthefirs
    I gotta reply to you because you are just way too uptight, First of all I didnt think the first post took because it didnt pop up right away. Second, go play virtually 100% of the baby crap thats out there now. Say what you will but I feel no excitement as a PVPer without the thrill that i could lose my stuff. There is NOTHING to lose or gain. So just chill you've got your pick of every game out there, I'm just looking for a game to replace UO in its heyday.

    YOU also have YOUR pick of any game out there, why go to a game's forum that you already know won't have the features you are looking for?

    This game is about lore, challenge and maximum fun, not about looting. If looting is your bag then I'm not sure  you'd ever be happy with Spellborn. So why did you make this thread? To start a flame? To troll? To try to change a game that's already way cool to begin with? Maybe you just haven't read enough about this game to make an informed opinion, so please go to the official site and get into that info and lore ^^

    Thanks!

    (,,,)=^__^=(,,,)

  • outfctrloutfctrl Member UncommonPosts: 3,619

    I watch my kids play WoW and they love PvP there.  In WoW you lose nothing, zero, zilch, nada and they have a ball.  Its the thrill of beating another player your own level, using the right moves and spells at the right time.

    One mistake and you are toast.  Being able to loot the other person doesnt make PvP more rewarding.  It is knowing you are better then the next guy.

    Gonna try this game out.

    image

  • HydramanHydraman Member Posts: 15


    Originally posted by havocthefirs
    I gotta reply to you because you are just way too uptight, First of all I didnt think the first post took because it didnt pop up right away. Second, go play virtually 100% of the baby crap thats out there now. Say what you will but I feel no excitement as a PVPer without the thrill that i could lose my stuff. There is NOTHING to lose or gain. So just chill you've got your pick of every game out there, I'm just looking for a game to replace UO in its heyday.

    Why is any RPG that is not 'Hardcore' considered "baby crap" ?  I'm an adult, I work a full time job, I have other commitments and activities that I have to take care of.  I also like to play games.  Now tell me why it is more grown up to have the "thrill that I could lose my stuff?"  I worked  hard for my stuff in the limited time I have to play, I'd rather not lose it, just like I'd rather not get PK'd unless I set a flag or go into a contested area where I know the rules dictate that.

    If anything I think that 'hardcore' pvp is designed for less mature folks who don't have a job and can spend time regaining thier items and stuff while the real adults are off working.  Besides, I get a thrill from CS and there is no real impact on me if I die, so maybe you should try that out if you need a thrill?

  • apocalanceapocalance Member UncommonPosts: 1,073


    Originally posted by outfctrl
    I watch my kids play WoW and they love PvP there. In WoW you lose nothing, zero, zilch, nada and they have a ball. Its the thrill of beating another player your own level, using the right moves and spells at the right time.
    One mistake and you are toast. Being able to loot the other person doesnt make PvP more rewarding. It is knowing you are better then the next guy.
    Gonna try this game out.

    Excellent post, I agree completely. Nothing more needs to be said.

    so...

  • ExyreExyre Member UncommonPosts: 136
    Erm the game, if I've read correctly, isn't going to have equipment... skills yes... equipment no... want to loot skills?

  • RanddRandd Member Posts: 409


    Originally posted by Exyre
    Erm the game, if I've read correctly, isn't going to have equipment... skills yes... equipment no... want to loot skills?



    Exactly, the loot in this game is far different from most others. Weapons and armor are eye candy, and i believe there will be a bank so even if full loot was implemented most people wouldnt be carrying all that much.
  • havocthefirshavocthefirs Member Posts: 229
    I've played WOW for about 4 months because thats all I could stomach. The average 1 on 1 lasts about 12 seconds the average battle 40 on 40 lasts about 45 seconds, trust me if you ever played UO in its heyday you would know that aint PVP. Also there was 0 excitement factor, the real joke of it all was it was cheaper to die and get your armor repaired than it was to drink a heal pot. NO FUN.
  • havocthefirshavocthefirs Member Posts: 229
    Me too, I work long hours and wouldnt a little excitement be nice after a crappy day at work. What the heck wouldnt it be nice to just wack someone out and get that gear, a tad more exciting than killing 10 rat faced wookies.
  • CyntheCynthe Member UncommonPosts: 1,414
    Huh did you just agree with yourself? 

    The PvP in Spellborn I don't think will be like WoW, it had FPS controls and is skill based, you will have to know your skilldeck very well and understand how to organise it in order to create the best possible combinations, according to you or your style of play.

    This shouldn't be mindless boom you're dead PvP, but with strategy and challenge. Which is why you don't need looting in the first place. The arena can also have spectators, so anyone can come to watch duels, group vs group or guilds taking it out. To me that sounds exciting and it might bring some sort of excitement into arena fights which I know a lot PvPers hate.. There's also lots of debate on whether the game will have some open PvP areas i the wild, it's been hinted at, hopefully for you challenge seekers there will be.


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  • DominuzDominuz Member Posts: 38


    Originally posted by outfctrl

    I watch my kids play WoW and they love PvP there.  In WoW you lose nothing, zero, zilch, nada and they have a ball.  Its the thrill of beating another player your own level, using the right moves and spells at the right time.
    One mistake and you are toast.  Being able to loot the other person doesnt make PvP more rewarding.  It is knowing you are better then the next guy.
    Gonna try this game out.



    Not that I like the WOW PvP system in any way(battlegrounds *spit*)But to get back on tcos topic, I think pvp here will be even more rewarding, just knowing that you beat the other guy. Losing you face is worse then your items imo:P

  • IIRLIIRL Member Posts: 876


    Originally posted by outfctrl

    I watch my kids play WoW and they love PvP there.  In WoW you lose nothing, zero, zilch, nada and they have a ball.  Its the thrill of beating another player your own level, using the right moves and spells at the right time.
    One mistake and you are toast.  Being able to loot the other person doesnt make PvP more rewarding.  It is knowing you are better then the next guy.
    Gonna try this game out.


    Level 60 Green/Blue vs Level 60 Purple/Orange ... Who'll win? :D

    One mistake and you are toast? Bah, WoW PvP is not twitch based at all, there is some "skill" in it by just knowing the classes you go up against but that's all, then it's just gear and luck (crits).

    And BG's are really boring, it's too repetative, like the honor system.

    There should be a risk in dying and as well a reward in killing, therefor full-loot is truest form of looting. HUH?!

    But some people who mostly spawns from CS, WC3 and so on rather enjoy the slaughter of the MMO scene by it's direction towards matchmaking.

    image

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  • GhakanGhakan Member Posts: 71

    "Exactly, the loot in this game is far different from most others. Weapons and armor are eye candy, and i believe there will be a bank so even if full loot was implemented most people wouldnt be carrying all that much."

    This isn't exactly true.  I think you are going to be picking up a lot of other things too, like crafting materials and broken items that you need materials to fix and use.  This is from the Q & A yesterday that they posted.

    3. How will the loot system be handled in TCoS ? Imposed by the game, or are there several choices of loot option available? Submitted by Gumn

    When opening a chest, or when looting a corpse, all received items are automatically transported to your inventory. A window will pop up showing which items you just received. We decided to give players a very big inventory capacity to prevent problems that may arise from the lack of inventory space which diminishes the player experience.

    I think they are talking about like 240-slot inventories or something like that, so there won't be a lack of loot.

    http://mmoreinsight.wordpress.com -- A Glimpse Into The World of Massively Multiplayer Games.

  • MarlonBMarlonB Member UncommonPosts: 526


    Originally posted by Ghakan


    I think they are talking about like 240-slot inventories or something like that, so there won't be a lack of loot.


    From dev-chat (http://www.tcos.com/en/community/devchats.php) :
    • Jewals: Will there be a bank or
      storage to use for the items we collect before lvl 10 or is the housing
      with the chests the only place to keep my belongings?

      Burn:
      Each player's personal inventory will feature 200 slots that can host
      bags. It is huge and you will have to try really hard to fill that
      before level 10
    • Lerris: is the storage in our house the only storage we get or do we get a banking NPC's aswell?
      Burn:
      The house storage will be the equivalent of a bank. 400 slots that can
      hold chests, each chest capable of holding bags + 200 slots in the
      personal inventory that can hold bags themselves are a lot of storage
      space. If you really, really need some extra room, I think we have some
      space left in the office basement
  • weschesterweschester Member Posts: 9
    I want good risk and reward to PVP.

    There should be incentive and consequence to killing someone as well as dying (consequence) and staying alive (reward).

    The great thing is they mentioned that your character gets a bonus to stats for staying alive a long time -
    PEP system it's called

    http://tcos.com/en/gameworld/?id=statistics

    PeP system

    The Personal experience Point (PeP) system grants characters bonuses to
    the attributes and states if the character stays alive and gains
    experience in combat. When a character dies all bonuses are lost and
    the PeP rank is reset. The bonuses are given based on the ranking below.


    Rank 0 - No bonus

    Rank 1 - state bar zero point +1

    Rank 2 - Minor body, mind, focus buff + state bar zero point +1

    Rank 3 - Minor body, mind, focus buff + state bar zero point +2

    Rank 4 - Moderate body, mind, focus buff + state bar zero point +2

    Rank 5 - Moderate body, mind, focus buff + state bar zero point +3


    When the states zero points are raised, the generation and degeneration effects will shift to these new points.



    So, thats a good start. I think there should also be some sort of economic/fincancial gain or loss for killing or dying too, though.


  • AphexAphex Member Posts: 194


    Originally posted by weschester

    I want good risk and reward to PVP.There should be incentive and consequence to killing someone as well as dying (consequence) and staying alive (reward).The great thing is they mentioned that your character gets a bonus to stats for staying alive a long time - PEP system it's calledhttp://tcos.com/en/gameworld/?id=statisticsPeP system
    The Personal experience Point (PeP) system grants characters bonuses to
    the attributes and states if the character stays alive and gains
    experience in combat. When a character dies all bonuses are lost and
    the PeP rank is reset. The bonuses are given based on the ranking below.
    Rank 0 - No bonus
    Rank 1 - state bar zero point +1
    Rank 2 - Minor body, mind, focus buff + state bar zero point +1
    Rank 3 - Minor body, mind, focus buff + state bar zero point +2
    Rank 4 - Moderate body, mind, focus buff + state bar zero point +2
    Rank 5 - Moderate body, mind, focus buff + state bar zero point +3
    When the states zero points are raised, the generation and degeneration effects will shift to these new points.So, thats a good start. I think there should also be some sort of economic/fincancial gain or loss for killing or dying too, though.


    The devs also specifically mentioned mines being open for pvp. So in that case, winning pvp fights will help you gain more resources. I don't think that equipment looting would work in the game anyway, since they don't give stats.

  • GurlokGurlok Member Posts: 8


    Originally posted by Hydraman


    Why is any RPG that is not 'Hardcore' considered "baby crap" ?  I'm an adult, I work a full time job, I have other commitments and activities that I have to take care of.  I also like to play games.  Now tell me why it is more grown up to have the "thrill that I could lose my stuff?"  I worked  hard for my stuff in the limited time I have to play, I'd rather not lose it, just like I'd rather not get PK'd unless I set a flag or go into a contested area where I know the rules dictate that.



    I totally agree
  • weschesterweschester Member Posts: 9


    Originally posted by Gurlok

    Originally posted by Hydraman


    Why is any RPG that is not 'Hardcore' considered "baby crap" ?  I'm an adult, I work a full time job, I have other commitments and activities that I have to take care of.  I also like to play games.  Now tell me why it is more grown up to have the "thrill that I could lose my stuff?"  I worked  hard for my stuff in the limited time I have to play, I'd rather not lose it, just like I'd rather not get PK'd unless I set a flag or go into a contested area where I know the rules dictate that.


    I totally agree


    There are quite a few games that cater to that type of gamestyle, MMOs and FPS. So far no one has had the balls to really step outside of that boundary and make a game where your actions have signifigant consequence. Being as Spellborn seems willing to step outside of boxes I hope they will give death more meaning than just "losing face" or reputation or whatever.

    For me its more thrilling when everything is on the line. If I enter a game like that then I better be willing to accept the consequences, which I am. Im just kinda tired of meaningless PVP I guess. I also consider myself a "mature" MMORPGer. Ive played a lot of them - exploring, socializing, and progessing gets me only so far because I've done a lot of that and now I need something with more adrenaline.

    Who knows maybe they will have different servers/rulesets.

    If anyone knows of any other good PVP games - please point me the way.
  • CyntheCynthe Member UncommonPosts: 1,414
    Yes it's true that Spellborn tries to do things differently but also the first thing amongst all that is to create a game and world that is fun for every style of play. So no there will not be pure anything, but a mix. So to ask to have all RP, or all PvP with no rules are nothing but rules, isn't part of the original plan anyway.

    If you read up on the official site, there most probbaly will be a lot of PvP, details aren't known yet even the loot thing, there most probably won't be looting in PvP but maybe they'll be some other reward? Who knows, there's only a few weeks left and things should become a lot clearer.


    (,,,)=^__^=(,,,)

  • DrkreaperDrkreaper Member Posts: 76
    go play lineage II it has pvp and you can loot your kills ..hell if an npc wackes ya you drop equipment ,,
  • havocthefirshavocthefirs Member Posts: 229
    And thats as it should be, when you die everything should drop to your corpse, then when you get ressed you run back and get your stuff back. Ever play UO in its heyday, it was the greatest game of all time, then carebears took over with insurance, so the thrill was gone. It went like this a guild declares war on another guild then you can loot each other. If you werent in a war guild you had nothing to lose so stop you whining.
  • amark_8amark_8 Member Posts: 75
    I never understood how a game with pvp looting would work. Basically the few people who started the game first could kill the others and keep stealing your gear. The few people would have fun but everyone else would just keep dying and rly couldn't accomplish anything.


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