Originally posted by vesavius Originally posted by Anofalye Vesavus got better at taunt(255)! yay! I love skill ups!
Insult me, be as arrogant as you want. I taste something good in EQ. It was ruined by raiding. I want more of it. I wont stop until I find it back. This isnt about being arrogant, it's about debating passionate beliefs in something we care about yes? I actually like your search for somthing better, but i just fail to see why attacking a game you will never play will make it come any quicker... But the point is, I am not attacking. I am telling the good and bad sides when I think it promote what I believe. You can check the WoW or EQ2 forums, you won't see me there unless I have something to say nice about the game...or unless you check at their release when I buy these and was disappointed by the raiding again. As to saying I will never play Vanguard you are half true. I will never play Vanguard as is. Who are you to say that there will NEVER be a non-raiding server? I am just an individual myself, but I know I am far from alone to despite raiding and looking forward non-raiding games. Finally, even if Vanguard never have a non-raiding server, I might put some 2 bits comon sense in a 3rd party listening or even talking here and there...and this would be just as priceless if not even better.
Move on? *shrug* I will, when I find a game to hold my interest, but until then, I am spending time on forums, talking and pinpointing good points and flaws. Like I say, attacking a game that you will never play will *not* make your dream game come on any sooner... If you don't actually intend of being part of the community, find a game out there that maybe excites you and inspires you to post postitive thoughts, rather then trolling negativity just because you know you will get a knee jerk reaction from people who actually care. You are accusing me of trolling? I wasn't talking about raiding. I was debating, positively, on some other aspect...until YOU show up. Maybe it is person like you that ruins the good MMOs. And more talking is indeed in order.
Ask your friend Brad, if someone telling him to move on after he experience PvP in online gaming would have satieted him? It wouldn't. I don't have the talent to bring out a PvE MMO about grouping, so I do the second most logical step to it, I check for it and I praise it forthcoming if I see it *If* he is my friend, it is only because he has actually bothered to personally reply to posts I have made and communicate his dreams and hopes to us all. I can only wish every MMORPG dev took as much care... Then he is obviously catering to a tiny minority and IMO, the most harmful he could be catering to for his game.
Insult my english skills all you want, the fact we are talking in english and not in my native tongue is all that matter now, if you can't grasp what I say, you can blame yourself. Unless it is the usual elitist attitude to denigrate other that I found in old EQ uber guilds, in which case it would only lessen your opinion to irrelevance. I am not attacking your english skills as a second language... I am merely stating that I really didnt understand the point you was making... Like I say though, I have never been uber, but I enjoy the games I play nonetheless Good for you. I need to at least DREAM I will be uber, and raiding denying me this dream. If you can settle with a sub par toon, good for you, but a good part of the community, among the nicest players just can't. Catering to uberguilds is the worst mistake a dev can do, as most peoples don't want to see raiding enforced on them and rewarded with unique loot, this is unfair and unappealing.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
The key I think is that while it is true that some of the best (but not all of the best) items will come from raid areas or encounters, the majority of content in the game, from level 1-50, will be centered around grouping and not raiding. If you group to 50, experience crafting and diplomacy, and do some trading/buying/selling, I see no reason why you wouldn't have the majority of items you sought to make your character as powerful as possible, even if you refused to raid. That said, I would encourage you and anyone else to take a Saturday off here and there and try some of the raid content as well, as it can be a blast to experience.
Brad comes right out and says that some of the best items will come from raids, just like I've been saying on these boards over and over again. If you raid you would have all of the items, if you don't raid you'll be lacking some. Thus, you will clearly be a second class citizen if you don't raid, forever behind the raiders, just as I've said all along. He spins it diffently, but the facts are exactly the ones I've been saying about Vanguard all along. If you don't raid, your gear will be worse than what the raiders have.
If second-rate gear is good enough for you, or if you want to raid, then great. But if you don't want to be second rate and don't want to raid, this game is not for you.
And he even comes right out and says that he thinks everyone should raid, incidentally referring to people who don't desire to raid as 'refusing' to raid, both signs of the 'raiding is king' mentality. To top it all he's also said quite openly that raid rewards will be better than most party rewards. I'm not making this stuff up, I'm quoting this from sites the Vanguardians are linking people to for information.
34.6. What's your rationale behind making raid rewards better than most party rewards? I probably should have been more clear and detailed. If one assumes a death penalty like Vanguard's, the deeper into a dungeon you go, the more risk you are taking on. If there are no safe places to break, or really log off, or pick up later the next day and continue on, you are risking a CR probably just as long and potentially more difficult. Likewise, you are involved in what is hopefully challenging combat involving a relatively large group of individuals who each have their own roles and responsibilities. People have jobs to do. There are leaders, sub leaders. Communication is key. There should be lots of opportunity to screw up, and the farther the group goes, the more painful screwing up ought to be.
So that's why I think, if accomplished, it should be thusly rewarded. Source: Aradune Mithara
Prepare for a bunch of flames from Vanboys that will fail to show that anything I've said is actually factually wrong.
Brad comes right out and says that some of the best items will come from raids, just like I've been saying on these boards over and over again. If you raid you would have all of the items, if you don't raid you'll be lacking some. Thus, you will clearly be a second class citizen if you don't raid, forever behind the raiders, just as I've said all along. He spins it diffently, but the facts are exactly the ones I've been saying about Vanguard all along. If you don't raid, your gear will be worse than what the raiders have.
lol pantastic you are a piece of work, i called you on this in our last "discussion" and you deny in openly saying that i "made it up" in my head, i said..
your argument is because your not able to get every single piece of gear ever made in the entire game that somehow that makes you "second class" or "worse" than a player that does because they raid.
am i right? even though what has been clearly said is that gear from small grouping will be just as good (meaning the quality is the same) as raid gear.
then you said..
No, you're simply wrong, and I've explained this to you before, but you continue to pretend that my argument is something that it isn't. I am not claiming that every piece of gear from a raid will be better than every piece of gear from the other 80% of the game, that's something you've made up. I am not arguing that not being able to get every single variety of item in the game is an issue, that's also something you've made up.
so "If you don't raid, your gear will be worse than what the raiders have." but at the same time you say that "I am not arguing that not being able to get every single variety of item in the game is an issue, that's also something you've made up"
so witch one is it pantastic? do you believe "If you don't raid, your gear will be worse than what the raiders have"?
or do you believe that " I am not arguing that not being able to get every single variety of item in the game is an issue"?
isn't your argument that not raiding makes you second class? i really am trying to figure out where your coming from because it confuses me.
if you believe that not getting all the items in the game makes you second rate then thats fine, at least i know where your coming from, but you confuse me.....your posts totally lead me to believe thats what you mean but then you say i am playing "word games" and that i make shit up, seems like your are contradicting yourself. *shrugs*
again, if you feel that you need every piece/type of gear in the game to enjoy it but refuse to raid, then yeah vanguard probably isn't for you IMO.
if you think that not raiding to get some of the situational items or some "best items" in the game makes you "second rate" or " your gear will be worse than what the raiders have"
even though you have access to 80% of all the "best items" in the game, then yeah your better off finding a game that has absolutely no raiding at all.
seems kind of silly to be so hell bent on not playing a game because you don't like one aspect of the game, even though it is only 20% of the game content....but to each their own i guess.
Originally posted by baphamet lol pantastic you are a piece of work, i called you on this in our last "discussion" and you deny in openly saying that i "made it up" in my head, i said..
I am not and have not been "arguing that not being able to get every single variety of item in the game is an issue," it's still just "something you've made up" like you quoted me saying. I'm not sure how to make it any clearer for you; at no point have I said anything remotely like what you keep saying my argument is.
so witch one is it pantastic? do you believe "If you don't raid, your gear will be worse than what the raiders have"? or do you believe that " I am not arguing that not being able to get every single variety of item in the game is an issue"?
If you don't raid, your gear will be worse than what the raiders have, and I provided quotes supporting it. I also am not arguing and have not argued that being unable to get every single variety of items in the game is an issue. I'm not sure why you think posting two statements from me that don't contradict each other and demanding that I choose one is some kind of victory, you might want to lay off the mailbox number for a bit and move back to ordinary logic.
Very simply, the problem is that if you raid, you'll have access to BETTER gear than if you don't. That's all there is to it, it's that raiding provides BETTER gear. Not that raiding provides access to different gear, but that some of the gear from raiding is BETTER according to Brad himself. If raiding only provided different variety of items that were equal or lesser to those from the rest of the game, but not BETTER items, then I would have no objection even though there would be varieties of items that would be inaccessible to the nonraider.
if you believe that not getting all the items in the game makes you second rate then thats fine, at least i know where your coming from, but you confuse me.....your posts totally lead me to believe thats what you mean
Which posts exactly; the ones where I don't argue for that, or the ones where I explicity tell you that it's not what I believe, or the ones where I mock you for saying that I believe that?
but then you say i am playing "word games" and that i make shit up, seems like your are contradicting yourself. *shrugs*
If you could provide two statements of mine that contradict each other then you might have a leg to stand on. that's all there is to it, really.
Also Iit's quite amusing that you quoted yourself saying
am i right? even though what has been clearly said is that gear from small grouping will be just as good (meaning the quality is the same) as raid gear.
In a thread where I've quoted the lead designer of the game directly saying that it's not.
Originally posted by joejccva You're an idiot. Did you even read the info at the top of this thread? That was a post from Brad on the official Vanguard forums. He clearly states that he is making this game fun for the casual player as well as hardcore.
I wish you would just stop talking because you're acting like a friggin troll.
Or are you the idiot for believing everything you read. Trying and doing are 2 completely different things.
Originally posted by baphamet again, if you feel that you need every piece/type of gear in the game to enjoy it but refuse to raid, then yeah vanguard probably isn't for you IMO.
I need to DREAM about them. Getting them or not is irrelevant, as long as I dream about them. So the best path to these items must be without a doubt in the grouping system. Now if I don't get it, fine, I will try and enjoy my time.
And I honestly can't care less about raiding, as long as they don't have unfair reward, whatever happen there is no concern of mine, if they get a reward that is unfair and help them in group, we are in a feud for sure, because they doesn't deserve such a reward, they didn't group to earn it, thereby is should be worthless in grouping.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Originally posted by baphamet does sigil listen? it seems they do....contrary to what alot of the hardcore's will think, i think this is a good choice if they actually intend on catering to more than just one type of player. I'm sure some of the hardcore's will complain about this to no end, but oh well i think this is a good choice in the long run (thats if it stays and is actually in at release) http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1278950#post1278950
originally posted by Aradune Mithara
Let me post some more detail. I can't say a lot, because it's just now going to be tested. So it's not set in stone. But it is our next phase of refining the /con system, the death penalty, etc. based on what we have learned in beta to-date. At the end, I’ll also talk more broadly about what kind of game Vanguard is and what we’re trying to achieve by making it the way we are (of which this next revision of the con system, death penalty, and mobs with varying threat levels is a significant part). So keep in mind that what I'm saying isn't set in stone -- it's just closer to what we will likely ship with, but we still need feedback and we will likely revise things several more times before release. That is, after all, what the beta is for (amongst other things). Mobs have a Threat Level. They also have a regular level (e.g. their level relative to your level). These are two different attributes, and when you encounter a mob, you are made aware of both via the UI. This makes it such that we can place mobs of the same level or around the same level in the world that behave differently than one another, require additional (or less tactics) to deal with, have better (or worse AI), drop better loot, are rarer (or more common) etc. The difficulty of the mob (or encounter, e.g. a group of mobs) is determined by its threat level. Difficulty can mean more HP, more DPS, special abilities, better AI, and can also relate to location, or that it's at the end of a quest or an encounter route, etc. It's up to the designer populating the area. The death penalty is then also derived by that threat level. We thought originally about making this region based, but doing it by the mob's threat level even gives us more control and also allows players seeking different degrees of risk vs. reward to adventure in the same area if we so choose. In simple terms, a basic overland mob likely will have a lower threat level and a boss mob at the depths of a dungeon a much higher threat level. But that is an over simplification. You could certainly find high threat mobs outdoors, for example. And you could also find a lower threat mob in a dungeon. It's really relative to the region you are in, whether it’s designed for solo/casual, or group/core, or raid, whether it's a boss mob, or a mob at the end of an encounter route, or a quest mob, or just a basic wandering monster. It's about risk vs. reward. When you die to a mob, the death penalty is also different depending upon the threat level. Why are we differentiating between threat level and regular level? Because we want, for example, difficult mobs and even raids in mid level dungeons. And we also want more casual content at higher levels where appropriate. This has always been a goal of Vanguard: that the game isn't all about racing to the end game. That there can be challenge, fun, reward, and a sense of accomplishment at all levels and more players with different playstyles and preferences. I'm not going to go into details about what death penalty exactly results from what threat level -- again, we are going to be tweaking things, so it’s premature to post specifics. But in general, the death penalty can range from a money sink, to some exp lost but able to be regained, to exp lost period, to dropping a corpse with all of your gear but having that gear respawn after X number of hours real time at an Outpost, to a corpse that drops with all of your items that has to be recovered or dragged out by a friend, to even more severe penalties (for example, perhaps a corpse cannot be dragged, or even you have to defeat the mob that killed you in order to have access to your corpse (for example, a giant worm that eats your corpses, and until it dies, there is no corpse to loot)). (note, yes I said exp loss – our plan is still to offer the players the choice of losing exp or gaining exp debt, except at the maximum level, and except where you would lose a level – at maximum level, you will likely have a cap on the amount of debt you can rack up as well as some other mechanics working slightly differently. Also, if you have chosen to lose exp but lose so much that you would de-level, the game will likely switch to adding exp debt because level loss would cause many more problems than it would solve given the way advancement, skill and spell acquisition, etc. works in Vanguard). Anyway, mobs with varying threat levels gives us a lot of flexibility. It allows us to make casual, group, and raid content at all levels. It allows us to make boss mobs that spawn rarely or only spawn at the end of an encounter route (e.g. the Advanced Encounter System, e.g. our answer to Instancing), or part of a quest, or an encounter that involves using multiple spheres to overcome (e.g. inter-sphere dependence). We can make mobs of the same level harder or easier than others of the same level. We can make mobs drop better gear or worse gear even if they are the same level without only having the mob that drops better loot rarer. And we can make the penalty for dying to these mobs variable and relative to the situation. We've been fans of a dynamic death penalty from day one. This has led some people to assume that we are implementing corpse retrieval in all situations and exactly as it worked in EQ and/or other games. This is *not* the case. We are strong believers that challenge doesn't have to mean tedium. We lead you to corpses via a compass (and perhaps a silvery cord, but that is TBD). We provide horses and other vehicles that are soul bound in which you can store additional sets of gear so we can eliminate (or at least severely reduce) the likelihood of having to do a naked corpse run (as well as promote gear hoarding, which slows down MUDflation, as well as situational gear). So when we talk about CRs, it’s different than what you may have experienced in the past – in particular, if your death results in a CR (and it won’t always), the above features make doing that CR a lot easier. So also will some additional death penalty variants I’ll talk about in a moment. So, and to be clear, what I described above re: CRs we've had in beta from virtually the beginning and also in the game’s FAQ. What I’ll talk about next hasn’t been covered, however: We can now create mobs that don’t require a CR, or that do, but the corpse eventually repsawns at the nearest Outpost (like graveyards in other games) after a certain number of real time hours or days. Now is the time (beta 3) to take the con system and death penalty to the next stage and make it even more dynamic. Now, before anyone panics, does this mean we are dumbing down the game? No, I really don't think so. We *are* making deaths from mobs with a lower threat level easier, but then we are also making deaths from mobs with a high threat level as hard or even harder than before. And then we have options in-between. What we are doing is making the game more inclusive and less exclusive – players with different playstyles, tolerances, varying contiguous play times, etc. will all have plenty to do, again regardless of their level. No, we’re still not trying to make a game that is all things to all people, and yes, our primary audience is still the core gamer and we won’t make decisions that hurt what makes it attractive to our core audience. But there is a middle-ground – we can and are making a game where solo/casual, core, and hard core/raid gamers can co-exist. So while Vanguard is by no means niche, it also isn’t going to sacrifice challenge and the feeling of accomplishment that many players crave in order to reach the ‘mainstream’; -- we remain confident that Vanguard will attract all different types of players and will arguably be mainstream. Will it be #1? Who knows, but it won’t be #10. What it has that makes it different, amongst other things, is content that varies in challenge, difficulty, and risk vs. reward, and this content exists at all levels. That may not appeal to everyone, but we’re quite sure it will appeal to quire a few. As I’ve posted many times, I think a LOT of players want a game like this, both old school MMOG players as well as new players, say for whom FFXI or WoW was their first MMOG. Mob threat level and varying death penalties *do* add a degree of complexity, but I still think it's consistent and elegant, and I know our UI will make it clear to players what sort of risk they are taking when they decide to take on a mob or encounter. It won't simply be a matter of conning the mob to determine its level relative to yours. And it won't be a simple matter of assuming that if a mob has a special name that it is therefore not only more rare but also has better loot. What it does do is offer us more flexibility when populating areas, both dungeon and overland. And, as I mentioned, it also helps us create more difficult mobs that can be any level, such that you don't have to wait until the end game to experience something exciting and challenging. Likewise, it also allows us to create areas, regardless of level range, that are more casual friendly as well. Again, bottom line: risk vs. reward. The higher the threat level of the mob, the better the loot you will likely receive if you defeat it, and also the more severe the death penalty if it defeats you. And also, as I mentioned earlier, it gives our designers and populators more options in terms of placing special abilities on mobs, creating situational encounters, etc. In other words, needing to use more tactics, special abilities, situational gear, symbiotic abilities and spells, counter spells, etc. will be tied to the threat level of a mob. Let me know if this makes sense. Other than providing specifics (e.g. threat level X = Y type of death penalty), I will try to answer questions and to provide more clarity in terms of where we are heading with this, how, and why. It’s important that people understand what Vanguard is about and that it is not a ‘hard core’ only game. As always, the majority of the game is geared towards grouping and the ‘core’ gamer, but then also has plenty of content for both more casual gamers as well as more hard core gamers. It is also a game where you can log on, regardless of whether you are hard core, core, or casual, and accomplish things and advance your character whether you have only an hour to play or an entire day. Populating the world with mobs with varying threat levels, regardless of actual level, helps us achieve this goal. Having varying degrees of death penalties does also. And then so does having different spheres of advancement (adventuring, crafting, harvesting, and diplomacy). So does meaningful travel, mechanics that keep groups together (like the Caravan offline travel system), advanced LFG systems that not only help you find other players of a certain level or class, but also more about who that person is in RL, how they play MMOGs, their preferences and dislikes, etc. In-dungeon teleportation like evacs and call to hero type spells allow people to play the game together even if one of them logged on later than his or her friends. The Fellowship system allows players to keep their friends close to their level by sacrificing some of their own exp, even if some of those friends don’t play as often. The Veteran system rewards replayability and gives alts a significant but not unbalancing advantage when equipped with higher level gear, assuming you also have another character on the same shard that is as high or higher in level as the gear you are equipping your new character with. Harvesting that can be done alone or in a group gives players more options. Crafting that involves risk vs. reward and tactics allows us to escape the monotony of earlier click-fest mechanics. Diplomacy allows players to advance their character in ways that don’t involve combat, allowing us to make faction systems that much more integral to the game as well as reveal story and lore more easily, not to mention more closely resemble quality fantasy literature which is not all about hack-n-slash but that also includes political conflict that isn’t always rewarded by who is the more powerful combatant. Vanguard is the MMOG that many players have been waiting for, the game that is deeper, has more options and freedom of choice, and also more challenge if desired. The ability to customize your character when creating him or her is unparalleled. The number of outfits reflecting the gear you have earned (whether obtained from defeating a mob in battle, or found harvesting deep in a dungeon, or crafted using rare components, or as a reward for a quest or for overcoming a Diplomatic encounter) is also unparalleled. You can travel just about wherever you wish in a truly seamless word. You can own a ship and sail the seas not on a ‘rail’, but wherever you want. You can buy a horse and then equip it with saddlebags for more storage, or better horseshoes such that it will run more quickly. You can even eventually own a flying mount and travel across continents and oceans high above the earth, seeing everything below you and at a distance only restricted by the horsepower of your computer. You can own your own house and decorate it with items not simply bought from a vendor, but with trophies won in battle – you can hang the head of a recently slain wyvern on your wall, or place the Troll King’s idol on your table for all visitors to see and appreciate. You can explore vast dungeons along with other players, invite new people into your group as others leave, or observe another group doing battle with a boss mob that you hope one day to defeat yourself. And you can take on a quest or encounter route with your friends in one of these dungeons, not have to worry about other players in the same area interfering with your quest or encounter route, and the boss mob or mobs that spawn when you complete such a quest or encounter route can’t be stolen or interfered with at all by other players (unless you decide to ask for help). Anyway, I know I segued from talking about our next phase of death penalties into a more general description of the game, but I did so to illustrate what kind of game Vanguard is and how it allows you to do and experience things no other MMOG does. And I also again wanted to make the point that challenge, variety, depth, and options equal freedom, not tedium. All of the above does not make Vanguard a ‘hard core’ or ‘niche’ game like some have claimed it to be; rather, it offers you a game that is designed and architected to last for years, both from a technological standpoint as well as a gameplay standpoint – it’s about community, multiple ways to advance your character, more options, more challenge if you want it (though you don’t have to want it to achieve and to succeed). It’s about freedom.
You have GOT to be kidding me.This has been the longest post ever.How long did it take to think this out and type it?
An hour or more?You could have been doing something like......playing a game.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Originally posted by Puoltry You have GOT to be kidding me.This has been the longest post ever.How long did it take to think this out and type it?An hour or more?You could have been doing something like......playing a game.
it took me less than a minute, i didn't write that its a quote from one of the Dev's of the game. and BTW i have two computers, so i can write posts and play games at the same time.....i am talented.
Originally posted by Puoltry Originally posted by baphametOriginally posted by Puoltry You have GOT to be kidding me.This has been the longest post ever.How long did it take to think this out and type it?An hour or more?You could have been doing something like......playing a game. it took me less than a minute, i didn't write that its a quote from one of the Dev's of the game. and BTW i have two computers, so i can write posts and play games at the same time.....i am talented. Well i dont know about talented.But hey you sure are SPECIAL!!!I mean really 2 computers!!I dont know if i ever would have told anyone that about myself.Advice:The next time you go outside your cyberlair(mom and dad's basement)do NOT be frightened the shiny disc will not hurt you.It is called the sun.Continue to stare as it will be good for your eyes and imbue you with SPECIAL abilities.
cute, what is your point in attempting to insult me for no reason? so i have two computers? so what? go troll somewhere els kid.
Originally posted by Puoltry LOL!! Looks like i hit a sensitive area in your life.I can hear it now:Not now ma!!Im about to hit level 60 just leave my dinner at the door!!GOD!!!How's that for cute?Your right i need more of a challenge.You reacted EXACTLY the way i expected.Tell you what ill do, dont respond, and ill go away.
no, actually i just get sick of pre teens like yourself who talk shit to me for no reason, and i have a low tolerance for stupidity.
if you would have figured it out from the beginning that "DER DER DER... I dId nOT WriGHt iT" then maybe we wouldn't be in this situation where you feel the need to flame me for absolutely no freaking reason at all... err i mean flame me for spending over a hour writing something that i didn't even write.
did you not see where it said "originally posted by Aradune Mithara"? how long is it going to take you to figure that out? you really couldn't be that dumb, can you?
don't bother replying with some new insult or flame.....this is pointless and stupid that you keep this up.
Comments
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
It's funny watching all the backpedaling on raids when the role of raiding in the game is quite clear. From http://www.vanguardsoh.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1291339#post1291339 (posted by one of the Vaguarders here):
Brad comes right out and says that some of the best items will come from raids, just like I've been saying on these boards over and over again. If you raid you would have all of the items, if you don't raid you'll be lacking some. Thus, you will clearly be a second class citizen if you don't raid, forever behind the raiders, just as I've said all along. He spins it diffently, but the facts are exactly the ones I've been saying about Vanguard all along. If you don't raid, your gear will be worse than what the raiders have.
If second-rate gear is good enough for you, or if you want to raid, then great. But if you don't want to be second rate and don't want to raid, this game is not for you.
And he even comes right out and says that he thinks everyone should raid, incidentally referring to people who don't desire to raid as 'refusing' to raid, both signs of the 'raiding is king' mentality. To top it all he's also said quite openly that raid rewards will be better than most party rewards. I'm not making this stuff up, I'm quoting this from sites the Vanguardians are linking people to for information.
http://www.silkyvenom.com/pages/faq.php?faqid=586&expand=591#faq591
Prepare for a bunch of flames from Vanboys that will fail to show that anything I've said is actually factually wrong.
lol pantastic you are a piece of work, i called you on this in our last "discussion" and you deny in openly saying that i "made it up" in my head, i said..
then you said..
so witch one is it pantastic? do you believe "If you don't raid, your gear will be worse than what the raiders have"?
or do you believe that " I am not arguing that not being able to get every single variety of item in the game is an issue"?
isn't your argument that not raiding makes you second class? i really am trying to figure out where your coming from because it confuses me.
if you believe that not getting all the items in the game makes you second rate then thats fine, at least i know where your coming from, but you confuse me.....your posts totally lead me to believe thats what you mean but then you say i am playing "word games" and that i make shit up, seems like your are contradicting yourself. *shrugs*
again, if you feel that you need every piece/type of gear in the game to enjoy it but refuse to raid, then yeah vanguard probably isn't for you IMO.
if you think that not raiding to get some of the situational items or some "best items" in the game makes you "second rate" or " your gear will be worse than what the raiders have"
even though you have access to 80% of all the "best items" in the game, then yeah your better off finding a game that has absolutely no raiding at all.
seems kind of silly to be so hell bent on not playing a game because you don't like one aspect of the game, even though it is only 20% of the game content....but to each their own i guess.
I am not and have not been "arguing that not being able to get every single variety of item in the game is an issue," it's still just "something you've made up" like you quoted me saying. I'm not sure how to make it any clearer for you; at no point have I said anything remotely like what you keep saying my argument is.
If you don't raid, your gear will be worse than what the raiders have, and I provided quotes supporting it. I also am not arguing and have not argued that being unable to get every single variety of items in the game is an issue. I'm not sure why you think posting two statements from me that don't contradict each other and demanding that I choose one is some kind of victory, you might want to lay off the mailbox number for a bit and move back to ordinary logic.
Very simply, the problem is that if you raid, you'll have access to BETTER gear than if you don't. That's all there is to it, it's that raiding provides BETTER gear. Not that raiding provides access to different gear, but that some of the gear from raiding is BETTER according to Brad himself. If raiding only provided different variety of items that were equal or lesser to those from the rest of the game, but not BETTER items, then I would have no objection even though there would be varieties of items that would be inaccessible to the nonraider.
Which posts exactly; the ones where I don't argue for that, or the ones where I explicity tell you that it's not what I believe, or the ones where I mock you for saying that I believe that?
If you could provide two statements of mine that contradict each other then you might have a leg to stand on. that's all there is to it, really.
Also Iit's quite amusing that you quoted yourself saying
In a thread where I've quoted the lead designer of the game directly saying that it's not.
I wish you would just stop talking because you're acting like a friggin troll.
Or are you the idiot for believing everything you read. Trying and doing are 2 completely different things.
Joined - July 2004
I need to DREAM about them. Getting them or not is irrelevant, as long as I dream about them. So the best path to these items must be without a doubt in the grouping system. Now if I don't get it, fine, I will try and enjoy my time.
And I honestly can't care less about raiding, as long as they don't have unfair reward, whatever happen there is no concern of mine, if they get a reward that is unfair and help them in group, we are in a feud for sure, because they doesn't deserve such a reward, they didn't group to earn it, thereby is should be worthless in grouping.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
You have GOT to be kidding me.This has been the longest post ever.How long did it take to think this out and type it?
An hour or more?You could have been doing something like......playing a game.
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
it took me less than a minute, i didn't write that its a quote from one of the Dev's of the game. and BTW i have two computers, so i can write posts and play games at the same time.....i am talented.
cute, what is your point in attempting to insult me for no reason? so i have two computers? so what? go troll somewhere els kid.
no, actually i just get sick of pre teens like yourself who talk shit to me for no reason, and i have a low tolerance for stupidity.
if you would have figured it out from the beginning that "DER DER DER... I dId nOT WriGHt iT"
then maybe we wouldn't be in this situation where you feel the need to flame me for absolutely no freaking reason at all... err i mean flame me for spending over a hour writing something that i didn't even write.
did you not see where it said "originally posted by Aradune Mithara"? how long is it going to take you to figure that out? you really couldn't be that dumb, can you?
don't bother replying with some new insult or flame.....this is pointless and stupid that you keep this up.
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Former EQ1 Rallos Zek (PvP)
Ascendant Chronei Immortal of Rallos Zek
(Now @ Prexus)
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Former EQ1 Rallos Zek (PvP)
Ascendant Chronei Immortal of Rallos Zek
(Now @ Prexus)