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What defines... (heavy political debating. Not for the weak of heart)

Malachi1975Malachi1975 Member Posts: 1,079
in Off-Topic Discussion

Okay, let's get the rules straight a bit. I just want to see people's opinions. Let's not get into tangents where we argue over and over about tiny points that we disagree with one another. And let's not quote dictionaries, let's talk about what the word means to *you* the read and writer.

With that said, and the current state of affairs in the world:

What defines "terrorist" *edit* referring to politically parties or religous organisations. Thank you Al for pointing out to me that I should clarify what I was referring to.

For me, I can sum it up rather easily. Though people will time and again say "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" I want to point out what I feel is the major difference.

A terrorist is someone who wants to see you and yours eradicated from existence. There are no diplomatic demands, they wish only your death. Leaving you NO alternative BUT to fight them tooth and nail.

"What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."

Comments

  • AldaronAldaron Member Posts: 1,048

    Originally posted by Malachi1975

    Okay, let's get the rules straight a bit. I just want to see people's opinions. Let's not get into tangents where we argue over and over about tiny points that we disagree with one another. And let's not quote dictionaries, let's talk about what the word means to *you* the read and writer.
    With that said, and the current state of affairs in the world:
    What defines "terrorist"
    For me, I can sum it up rather easily. Though people will time and again say "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter" I want to point out what I feel is the major difference.
    A terrorist is someone who wants to see you and yours eradicated from existence. There are no diplomatic demands, they wish only your death. Leaving you NO alternative BUT to fight them tooth and nail.


    Wouldn't that more or less describe a fanatic?

    Frankly, I'd say a terrorist is just someone who uses "terror" to accomplish their goal. All the kindergarden bulles better watch out...The men in black suits may be coming after them.

    "Fear not death; for the sooner we die, the longer shall we be immortal."

  • Malachi1975Malachi1975 Member Posts: 1,079


    Originally posted by Aldaron

    Wouldn't that more or less describe a fanatic?
    Frankly, I'd say a terrorist is just someone who uses "terror" to accomplish their goal. All the kindergarden bulles better watch out...The men in black suits may be coming after them.

    Frankly, I'd say a terrorist is just someone who uses "terror" to accomplish their goal. All the kindergarden bulles better watch out...The men in black suits may be coming after them.


    Hrm, not so sure about Fanatic being the same description. I would take someone who is a "fanatic" as a person who can see no wrong in their choice, belief, likes, or whatnot and that they generally can not bo told otherwise. But I don't necessarily equate that the the wanton utter destruction of someone who disagrees with you. If that's the case there's a lot of Eve Fanatics who are going to on a Jihad soon

    Now I can agree with you that anyone who uses terror to accomplish a goal could be defined as a "terrorist". What I was aiming for, and I should probably make the question a bit more clear, was referring to political parties out there in the world today.

    "What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."

  • daeandordaeandor Member UncommonPosts: 2,695

    Originally posted by Malachi1975

    A terrorist is someone who wants to see you and yours eradicated from existence. There are no diplomatic demands, they wish only your death. Leaving you NO alternative BUT to fight them tooth and nail.


    I'd say they make diplomatic demands, it's just that they are beyond your capability to address forcing you to become blood enemies.

    I'd also say that they want death to you and anything you stood for, even if your involvement is merely coincidental or ancillary.

    Lastly, I'd say that they take the most extreme measures to carry out their agenda.

  • MerodocMerodoc Member Posts: 227

    Originally posted by daeandor

    Originally posted by Malachi1975

    A terrorist is someone who wants to see you and yours eradicated from existence. There are no diplomatic demands, they wish only your death. Leaving you NO alternative BUT to fight them tooth and nail.


    I'd say they make diplomatic demands, it's just that they are beyond your capability to address forcing you to become blood enemies.

    I'd also say that they want death to you and anything you stood for, even if your involvement is merely coincidental or ancillary.

    Lastly, I'd say that they take the most extreme measures to carry out their agenda.



    Terrorists are those who wish death and destruction, but also those who use any means necessary to accomplish those two goals. IRA and Hamas.


    Freedom fighters wish death and destruction but not at the expense of the overall goal, which is freedom for their people.


    "Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar."
    - Edward R. Murrow

  • //\//\oo//\//\oo Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,767

    Oh noez, a semantics debate! *insert analogy to special olympics here*

    Just kidding, I'll bite:

    My definition of a terrorist is: A human being that strives to create a societal change by threatening public security through violent means; the violence is often intended to create an insecurity out of fear for self-interest.

    This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.

  • MerodocMerodoc Member Posts: 227

    Oh noez, a semantics debate! *insert analogy to special olympics here*

    Just kidding, I'll bite:

    My definition of a terrorist is: A human being that strives to create a societal change by threatening public security through violent means; the violence is often intended to create an insecurity out of fear for self-interest. 

    Societal change is not necessary. A terrorist could mean to harm and destabilize to maintain status quo.

    "Just because your voice reaches halfway around the world doesn't mean you are wiser than when it reached only to the end of the bar."
    - Edward R. Murrow

  • Malachi1975Malachi1975 Member Posts: 1,079

    Originally posted by Merodoc

    Originally posted by daeandor

    Originally posted by Malachi1975

    A terrorist is someone who wants to see you and yours eradicated from existence. There are no diplomatic demands, they wish only your death. Leaving you NO alternative BUT to fight them tooth and nail.


    I'd say they make diplomatic demands, it's just that they are beyond your capability to address forcing you to become blood enemies.

    I'd also say that they want death to you and anything you stood for, even if your involvement is merely coincidental or ancillary.

    Lastly, I'd say that they take the most extreme measures to carry out their agenda.



    Terrorists are those who wish death and destruction, but also those who use any means necessary to accomplish those two goals. IRA and Hamas.


    Freedom fighters wish death and destruction but not at the expense of the overall goal, which is freedom for their people.




    That's actually a really good point. They are heedless of the costs.

    "What is it I have against Microsoft, you ask? Well, you know how you feel when you wait for an MMO to come out and when it does you feel like you've paid to play it's beta test for another 6-9 months before anything even thinks of working the way it should? Being a network engineer you feel that way about anything Microsoft puts out."

  • //\//\oo//\//\oo Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,767

    Societal change is not necessary. A terrorist could mean to harm and destabilize to maintain status quo.

    In which case, there would be a force changing the status quo; thus the desired change would be the change in the change in the status quo. 

    This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.

  • britocabritoca Member Posts: 1,484

    Originally posted by Malachi1975

    A terrorist is someone who wants to see you and yours eradicated from existence. There are no diplomatic demands, they wish only your death. Leaving you NO alternative BUT to fight them tooth and nail.
    a religious, fanatic, fundamentalist terrorist might want nothing but that, but there are many shades of grey to terrorists.  Many have very clearly defined and declared goals.

    I think you meant the first kind.  If so, those are just utterly nuts.

    -virtual tourist
    want your game back?
    image

  • viadiviadi Member Posts: 816

    I think what terrorist has become to mean is anyone that disagrees with the west most of these groups have been funded or supported by us, the west; for far too long (USA Russia Spain UK France the list goes on) what we need to do to stop marginalising them into a terror group (even though that’s what they do for the most part) and start looking at what we have done, what we are doing and what we can do to bring these groups into political argument rather than ideological, fundamental extremes they is a sad fact that you’ll never kill these groups off with a bullet it only serves as proper gander for the unconvertible but I think many in these groups could be bought "around" by a proper debate and political inclusion

    But that’s just me I'm an optimist

    Tin Foil hats dont work.. its all a conspiracy

  • britocabritoca Member Posts: 1,484
    I think it really comes down to a warming.  That's the only difference between killing "in a war" and killing in a terrorist plot.  In the first circunstance, you announce it openly.  You declare war, etc, so that's a "warning" that violence is coming to your street, so do what you have to do.
    With a terroist attack, violence just comes to your street, without warning.


    -virtual tourist
    want your game back?
    image

  • cornoffcobcornoffcob Member Posts: 860

    I think that a terrorist is one that uses terror tactics by attacking civilians...it pisses me off when the media calls it war on terrorism...soldiers don't fight terrorists they fight soldiers...i think any soldier that is fighting to protect his country at least earns the right to be called a soldier.

    I hope some day we can all put aside our racisms and prejudices and just laugh at people


    image

  • NimuelNimuel Member UncommonPosts: 163

    Originally posted by //\//\oo

    Oh noez, a semantics debate! *insert analogy to special olympics here*
    Just kidding, I'll bite:
    My definition of a terrorist is: A human being that strives to create a societal change by threatening public security through violent means; the violence is often intended to create an insecurity out of fear for self-interest.
    I agree with that definition, although one could argue about some details in the phrasing i know what you mean and i agree.

    Although i think a debate like this is meaningless, to argue,"what a terrorist is to you" doesnt really make sense. It kind of reminds me of the feminist debate (well to 'me' feminism means that blah blah blah), it leads nowhere and it waters down the concept. The word terrorist cannot as easily be turned around as it has a very clear meaning, which is someone who by using terror (fear) tries to accomplish a certain goal.

    "Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration - courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth." - Henry Mencken

    "With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg

    "And what would you do with a brain if you had one?" - Wizard of Oz

  • thepkerthepker Member Posts: 192

    Ill give my view on the meanin that sums up the meaning of terrorist in my opinion: any individual who manipulates another person's terror to achieve an inhumane cause

  • tetsultetsul Member Posts: 1,020

    Originally posted by Malachi1975


    What defines "terrorist"
    A person who intentionally targets civilians to decrease morale.
  • olddaddyolddaddy Member Posts: 3,356
    Nice topic. Basically, you have two types of "terrorist". The IRA, Hamas, Hizbollah, PLO, Basques to name a few all have nationalistic political agendas, generally the liberation of their lands/people from a "foreign" oppressor. These movements have historically been sponsored by countries such as the Soviet Union, Cuba, and Libya, and you can fairly say that one side may consider them freedom fighters. Al Queda, and the fundamentalist movement on the other hand, are not nationalistic, they want to establish a radical form of Islam that crosses political boundaries, and actually removes the political leadership and replaces it with an orthodox religious heirarchy. Their primary objective is the spread of radical Islam throughout the middle east, regardless of whether the Muslim population wants it or not. Their agenda was to remove the Shah, and is now to remove the Saudi Royal family, Sultan of Oman, Kuwati royal family, King of Jordan, President of Egypt, Mummar Quadaffi, President Assad of Syria, etc to establish a fundamentalist middle eastern power as a counter to the US, European, Russian, and Chinese power blocks. They have assassinated an Egyptian President (Sadat), and took their shot at killing Quadafi, which is the real reason he's seen the light and come into the US fold. Quaddifi openly admits to supporting nationalistic political terrorists groups, but Libya is NOT a fundamentalist state, and never will be under Quadaffi. Women in Libya are not required to wear traditional Islamic garb, and many dress in western clothes, are teachers, doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc. Unlike Assad, Quadaffi knows very well what they will do to him, and Libya, and has shown that he is perfectly willing to kill them for trying. Saddam also knew the enemy, and showed he was perfectly willing to kill to stop the spread of fundamentalist Islam (see Iraq/Iran war and suppression of Shiite clerics). The political power vacuum that will occur in Iraq if we withdraw will be filled by fundamentalist Islam, it is better equipped, financed, and organized then the Sunni's. They will then have consolidated their power in Iran, Iraq, and Afganistan, and will move on Pakistan for nuclear access, and the oil states for financial leverage against the west. Our politicians are in fantasy land, worrying only about their next paycheck from the lobbyists, and the next election. Of course, as a result of SOE changing Star Wars Galaxies, our politicians can now all become Jedi masters too :) After all, they already speak like Yoda.
  • paranoidpvpparanoidpvp Member Posts: 539

    I believe what defines a terrorist is point of view, from a "terrorist's" point of view they are fighting for rights or freedoms of their country and in their point of view; doing what is right. It is the same thing with revolutionists, people who want change and are willing to fight for it, although some people may see what they are doing to be wrong (i.e. taking over leadership of a country through force) in their eyes they are probably helping society. Everyone is in the wrong in somebody elses eyes, this IMO, is why society cannot function perfectly.

    a) everyone has their own voice and wants to be heard

    b) some people are more prone to take action rather than talk about issues involving their lives.

    A terrorist is simply someone who believes in him/herself and is wrong in the eyes of society.

    image

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